Designed was to give a lot of power to a little group of people. That and what biden can do on his own to ensure we never have a year like 2020 again when all in starts right now. Joe biden won the presidency decisively and he did it in a country that is nearly as polarized as it has ever been. We know basically the fine vote count. Bidens margin victory is over 7 million votes. 4. 5 points in the popular vote. It a larger margin than barack obama in 2012. Obama was an incumbent and larger than George W Bushs win in 2004. Get this, that 51. 3 its the highest vote share of any candidate challenging a sitting incumbent since fdrs win over Herbert Hoover and thats because it is hard to beat incumbents, so hard four elected president s have lost in the last 100 years. The country rejected donald trump. In the weeks since Election Night weve been on this roller coaster ride. The polls are off again and trump look like he might pull it out on Election Night and the long drawn out counting process and waited for days for the outcome in key states and the president s on going attempted coup for lack of a better or more precise word. In the end, joe biden won cleanly and clearly and fair and square, but as that comes into view, we should not forget that we also dodged a bullet. I mean, the outcome in this election came down to just a few tens of thousands of votes in the right places. Biden won arizona flipping it blue for the first time in more than 20 years by just over 10,000 votes. In georgia the margin was hardly any bigger, less than 12,000 votes and wisconsin was a little more than 20,000. Those states, arizona, georgia wisconsin have 37 electoral votes and joe biden won by just under 43,000 votes. If you flipped those 43,000 to trump out of nearly, again, 160 million votes cast nationwide, the Electoral College would have ended up tied 269 to 269 and we would be in a mess, a nightmare scenario where the house of representatives decide the election and each state delegation getting one vote. If you add one congressional district, nebraskas Second District where biden won by 22,000 shots, thats a second term. It would take 65,000 votes a ti ti tiny fraction. A popular vote margin of 4. 5 . This is the problem with the Electoral College. Its random at a certain point. The thing itself is a slap dash compromise thrown together at the end of the Constitutional Convention as they were way out the door and for most elections in the history, the outcome of the Electoral College is the same as the popular vote but now they are simaticly diverging. It happened twice in the previous five elections each going in the direction of the same party, the republicans winning without a popular vote and it is now a ticking time bomb. If we do not change it, it will absolutely cause some kind of constitutional crisis and democratic breakdown. Im sure of that. Scrapping the Electoral College in favor of a simple vote would be an enormous change with a constitutional amendment or coordinated impact and both would be hard. They would represent huge structural shift in how the country is governed. Thats the history of the country. We used to not have due processes in the 14th amendment. Before the 17th amendment, we didnt directly elect senators. Women couldnt vote until 100 years ago. We need large scale democratic reform like before if were going to save american democracy. Im joined by someone fighting for that change introducing a package of bills called a blueprint for democracy, jeff merkley of oregon joins me. Do you think as you look at this result about how close we came, senator . Absolutely. It stunning when you have millions of votes different65,0 and i must say it put shivers down my spine. There is both the democratic problem but also the sort of nature of this process. We get the safe harbor deadlines and the state is announcing electors and all this opportunity for mischief the Trump Administration and campaign pursued without actually winning but we wouldnt have any of this if it was just straightforwardly who won the most votes. Absolutely, and thats why ive introduced a constitutional amendment to do that. As you know and i know it very unlikely were going to get two thirds in the chamber and the state to agree to a kons us too l chan constitutional change because too many states are red states to retain power when it has sie massive misrepresentation. There are tons of republicans not benefitted by this. Millions and millions of California Republicans who votes dont essentially count and Republican Voters in your state of oregon. Im sure you hear from them a lot. They also kind of dont matter in this current setup. In someways, its an insult to voters across the political spectrum even though it sort of has a systematic bias in terms of one political collision. We have kind of a bizarre twist that occurred in our history in that you have a situation where the constitution says the state can choose to allocate the votes in the Electoral College as it wants, and states do it in a different fashion but most states decided to give all of the electoral votes to whoever wins the popular vote in their state and they do that to magnify the importance of their state and hope candidates will campaign there. But the result is that blue states are basically states that the republican candidate doesnt visit and red states, the democratic candidate ignores and it comes down to a series of swing states. Most of the country is ignored if the president ial campaign as these small set of swing states are fought over, and thats not healthy for our country at all. It would be much healthier under a situation where every vote counted to have the candidates of both parties proceeding to say i know i need to harvest votes everywhere i can find them. Im a republican going to the blue states like california to harbor votes and similarly on the other side. It would be much better in terms of the dialogue called out during the election. One of the other things this weird post e lex perilection pe exposed, it unclear whether you get to vote for president. When they were toying with the idea as the president toyed with the idea of states overturning the popular vote in their states, you know, they cant do that because of state law but it just state law minding them. A state could pass a law that doesnt do that that comes up with another way of awarding the electors that doesnt give it to the people, the candidate that won the state. No, thats absolutely right so you can have a state saying hey, you know, were a Republican Legislature and will allocate votes to whoever the republican candidate is regardless and that leads us to an interesting twist because that power can be stood on its head and thats where the interstate compact that you mentioned in the introduction comes in. If enough states by law they will award their electoral votes to the individual getting the most popular votes nationally, suddenly, we have a National Popular vote system and that effort is well underway. Yeah, there will a number of states, i forget the if you remember off the top of my head. How many do we have in the mpv . The compact is it doesnt kick in until you get the number of states that would go over 270 at which point it would be determined over the out come . We have 15 states and the district of colombia that opted in and totals 196 electoral votes. 74 more are needed to get 270 so were twothirds of the way there. Three fifths of the way there. So here we go. It definitely is possible to do and there is a lot more states still that have Initiative Systems where the issue can be put before the people of that state and so this is well worth pursuing across the country. It really the only way we can get there is the National Popular vote compact. Thats a fascinating point. In states where obviously a Republican Legislature that cant agree to this, if there is a state Ballot Initiative process to go that route . Thats right. Absolutely. All right. Senator jeff merkley who is a strong voice for this utterly obvious and straightforward constitutional reform, thanks for making time. It a very important issue for america. We need to get it done. Thank you, chris, for covering it. 2000 george w. Bush by 2,000 and al gore won by 500,000. We see a similar pattern. Joe biden wins by 7. 5 million votes and wins needed states by 6 0,000. Its another reason the college is dangerous. The margins are going to be closer and tighter and much more subject to mischief and litigation and attempt to steal and overturn the national vote. With me now is secretary of state of colorado whose state joined the National Popular vote last year a multi state agreement that would ensure the candidate that wins the popular vote wins the Electoral College and spokesperson for justice democrats, an organization that supports the abolition of the Electoral College. Secretary of state, let me start with you. You were a strong advocate for colorado joining this compact. What was that process like and why did you want to see it happen . Chris, thank you for having me on tonight. I was a strong advocate. We pushed legislation in 2019. Our state Legislature Passed it and it went on the ballot. The people of colorado voted and decided to pass the National Popular vote compact and colorado is now the first state to adopt the National Popular vote by the peoples vote. And i just think its fantastic as secretary of state, im guided by the principle of one person, one vote and thats what National Popular vote does. Im excited to have this conversation and to continue to see the momentum of the National Popular vote compact. I think some people think this is a fairly abstract affair and happened twice and doesnt affect our politics in the intervening periods but youre someone who works immanently in our politics to the ground level and i wonder if you think it has a kind of systematic skewing effect to how the parties operate, what our politics look like. Yeah, i think everything democrats want whether youre conservative or progressive, whether its action on health care, Clean Energy Jobs or Justice Reform requires a democracy that requires the majority of people to govern and with the Electoral College and several other institutions in the country, majorities have a really hard time governing. Democrats of all stripes should support ways to make it easier for majorities to govern and that brings together, you know, all different factions of the party. One thing that is just has been so absurd to me is that in my own lifetime republicans have only won the popular vote once, and that is not you know, people keep asking why millennials are angry, that is a reason why. It only been once and then they get to look at the 2016 election and lose the popular vote and appoint three Supreme Court jui justices that would reform some of these institutions that would help majorities govern. Secretary, in your state you did a Ballot Initiative the first state that did that. Do you think this is a model for other states because there is a lot of states in which because the issue is so partisan and the split has a partisan advantage and disadvantage, i dont think any Republican Legislature anywhere will let this happen. In the past republican state legislatures have passed this law. And i think that advocates for free and fair democracy should look at all the tools in the tool box. At the end of the day if you ask americans do you believe your vote should count equally to other americans, the answer is going to be usually yes. And ill tell you as someone who grew up very working class and rural colorado up in the mountains that a lot of people like me rural folks feel left behind and one thing i firmly believe in if youre from a small town like me with more elk than people, your vote told count i cannily wel equally. It about adding a level of fairness into the elections that is lacking. Well, the secretary brings up a point that is a bigger issue that in someways is an increasingly defining issue of politics which is the kind of polarization in america and indeed the inefficiency of the collision that is tightly clustered. Joe biden is anyone that ever won, more people 7 million more people because thats where the people are but this sort over, this kind of ways in which constitutional structures allow this minority to retain power, i think even exacerbates that kind of divide between the different parts of the country. Yeah, i think at that time true. There are ways in which republicans clinging to rules to enshrine that rule. In new york where i live, there are lines around the block where black families, immigrant families were voting and imagine if there was an actual operation to turn out votes in states like illinois or new york or california, the popular vote margin would have been higher than 7 Million People in terms of joe bidens defeat of donald trump. So i do think that if you want to deal with polarization and gridlock in the country and actually bring people together, you identify the country, you have to be able to break the institutions that perpetuate the polarization in the country and not actually solve it. Final question for you, secretary, you have this job, it a very important job in particularly a high profile and important job if youre a state thats a swing state or the margin is thin, right . Colorado is not that this year. Joe biden won fairly comfortably. I think what weve seen is exposed that there is i guess i wonder like do you have confidence that every future iteration of a secretary of state with tremendous pressure brought to bear on them with margins of 500 votes or 1 to,00 will look the president of the United States and not succumb to pressure to overturn the votes of their state. Well, i would say the job of secretary of state is important in all states, not just swing states to make sure that people have their voices heard. You know, especially in a pandemic making sure that elections are safe, secure and people dont have to risk their lives to vote is extremely important and ill share over the last two years, we partnered in colorado with the native american tribes to increase participation rates by about 20 . Which were very proud of and love the partnership but to your point, we need guard rails on our democracy. We cannot just have rogue elected officials try to undermine our elections in a really corrupt attempt to take power for themselves. So that includes reforming how states apportion their electoral votes. Thats what National Popular vote compact is about. It also about a package of democracy reforms. We need federal law to make sure that every american has access to the ballot box. We need federal coordination to make sure were countering for this information and that list of creating an america americans can believe in goes on and i know well get there and im so optimistic for our future. Thank you both for your time. Next up, fixing the system that allows minority rule in the United States senate. How more states and senators could restore balance to american democracy after this. Ro american democracy after this. Im not hungry youre having one more bite no one more bite kraft. For the win win. The we have to find just nosomething else. It. Good luck what does that mean . We are doomed. [laughter] thats it. I figured it out were going to give togetherness. That sounds dumb. Were going to take all those Family Moments and package them. Hmm. [laughing] that works. One of the longest lasting legacies of donald trump will likely be his judicial appointees filling the bench with conservatives and justices including three Lifetime Appointments to the supreme cou court. The reason hes been able to do that is the snot where those nominees are confirmed and where the will of the majority of the country is not really represe represent represented. I mean, over time as the country has gone and americans clustered around population centers, the senate drift further and further away from the median voter. Were stuck in a situation where 40 million californians have the same amount of representation in the senate thanless than 800,000 north dakotaens and 1 million montanaens. Short of getting rid of the senate, i dont think that will happen what to do about this really crazy structural undemocratic unbalance. Well, we could just do what weve done in the past and add new states to our union. Nearly 4 million americans live in puerto rico and washington d. C. And have zero representation in the senate right now. If we gave that Diverse Group of americans four new votes that would go a long way towards creating something representative out of the body. Im joined by historian jon meacham and vander built University Author of his truth marching on and unofficial advisor to president elect biden and megan is director of democracy policy indivisible and she wrote about the senate is broken washington d. C. Statehood can save it. There is an argument for the people of d. C. Deserve to have representation and whats the argument . As a d. C. Resident, all i want for my life is voting representation in congress. That would be great. It is what is built into our democracy itself. The way the senate is designed is to give a lot of power to a little group of people, mostly land owning white gentlemen and to deny infranchisement equal representation to the largely population of d.