Transcripts For MSNBCW AM Joy 20190914 : vimarsana.com

Unnecessary swipe at bidens age. Team biden and team castro continue the feud off the debate stage with bidens camp crying cheap shot and castro kanderring that he was just Fact Checking biden. But joe biden didnt exactly leave the debate unscathed either. The day after the debate jokes about biden and record players, yes, he mentioned record players began to shift into a sharp critique first on social media anocolluding from my next guest and then in columns and commentary to Lindsey Daviss question on repairing the legacy of slavery. Make sure that every single child does in fact have three, four and fiveyearolds go to school, school, not daycare. School. We bring social workers in to homes and parents to help them deal with how to raise their children its not that they dont want the help m f they dont know quite what to do. Play the radio. Make sure you have the record player on at night. The phone. Make sure the kids hear words. A kid coming from a very poor school or a very poor background will hear 4 Million Words fewer spoken when they get there. The author of winners take all and smith of Rolling Stone in response to that, fired off a column in which he said its time for joe to go. He said democrats need an anti racist dom knee nominee. A third confirmed biden isnt up to the task but before that even came out i noticed your tweets. You went on a tweet storm about that answer that joe biden gave and this is what you wrote. Joe bidens answer on how to address the legacy of depravely was appalling and disqualifying, you wrote. It ended in a sermon implying that black parents dont know how to raise their own children and said this cant go on. And in response to tim wise, anti racism educator tim wise who wrote sorry, but when you want to be president and you respond to the question about the legacy of slavery and how to address it by discussing better parenting and putting on the record player at night youre putting on a lack of depth. Those are strong words, so im going to let you explain your position on bidens answer. You know, i think on thursday night without intending to, joe biden threw himself a retirement party. And i dont say that lightly. I dont say the idea of him disqualifying himself lightly. But the reality is, this country is in a battle for its soul. An existential battle in which race is at is very heart, in which White Supremacy is at the very heart and there have always been and this is really important to understand, two tradition, two manifestations of racism in American Life. Theres racism with a hood, which is very easy to see and theres racism with a smile. Theres the racism of fire bombing churches which is very obvious and then racism of can i touch your hair . Theres the racism that is flagrant and the racism that is insidious and it is very clear and Everybody Knows this that joe biden is not out of that tradition of the evil tradition of racism of the hood and hes not a white supremacist. But joe biden has revealed himself to be deeply steeped in and anchored in and unwilling to cut ties to that second subtler tradition of American Life and we have to be real about that. This is the kind of comments that by the way, any person of color and black people especially have encountered all the time at work, all the time on the street, all the time in various aspects of life. It is thanksgiving and if you are running against a guy whose big idea is tax cuts maybe its fine. When you are running against a White Nationalist what you are going to do is you are going to neutralize the central issue in this race by putting forward someone who has simply not changed from the mad men era. Last night, yesterday during the afternoon something interested happened to me. After i had done these tweets and talked about this, i was approached via twitter privately by a Trump Campaign organization, an official Trump Campaign organization that privately messaged me to try to share additional videos from other times about joe biden saying similar racist things. Now, im not interested in amplifying Trump Campaign talking points. Why is that significant . They are ready. They know this is a good issue for them because if they can show that you know what, hes kind of said a lot of things also, he kind of said white people dont owe anything for the past in this country, he also said bussing is a bad idea. He also has said you know, some African American, one candidate is clean and articulate in contrast to others. He also said the thing about the indian accent. He also gave too many women too many back rubs. They are very excited about this. That is an excellent point that one of the challenges, particularly for more liberal, more progressive voters in 2016 was this argument which is actually flagrantly absurd that there was not a big difference between Hillary Clinton and donald trump, not a big enough difference for people to see there are two sides of the same kind of argument. Because Hillary Clinton is very intelligent. Certainly a very experienced leader and donald trump is donald trump, but the risk that that could happen again i guess is what youre talking about. Now, the counter facts to that, which is a country that would elect donald trump, the kind of people who would vote for him but maybe dont like things about his character might feel comfortable saying well, ill go to joe biden because joe biden kind of shares my general my generalized discomforts in certain areas and makes the kind of mistakes that i might make if im that person and so hes kind of more like me or like my uncle or like my family and so that you could take a marginal voter in the middle who is an independent who said i couldnt see a huge enough difference so i went with trump but i went with him. I dont think the antidote to the poison of outright White Supremacy is milk toast unconscious bias and a kind of white default. You know, what joe biden, yes, i think there are i think this is actually the whole point. There are a lot of people in america. I think there are not all that many people in america who are like donald trump. There are a lot of people like joe biden. But millions of them actually, and we dont talk about this enough, have been on a path in the last 10 or 20 years of getting better. Theres some other people pretty close to joe bidens auj in this race. Or older than him. I think Bernie Sanders is the same age or one year different. So this is a problem of someone look, the things he says, the things donald trump says, lets put it this way. The things donald trump says have been out of bounds for a very long time. The things joe biden says were not out of bounds when joe biden was my age. Right . And that is a hard thing. This country has changed. Our norms have changed. We have now realized that things that nobody ever thought about in the mad men era were basically completely exclusionary of women and people of color. Weve enlarged our understanding. And many millions of americans have enlarged their understanding. I was talking to my parents the other day. My mom was reading a book for school and as an immigrant to this country, it has raised things for her that she didnt see that she now has a language for her own experience which shes experienced. Joe biden has so clearly not changed. Hes not changed. He is the person that we all know who who is so steeped in the idea that americanness means whiteness. His policies are great. Husba his policies are fine. Thats not the issue here. This is someone who cant see and when you are asked one month after the 400 Year Anniversary of the first enslaved africans coming to these shores which is in the New York Times in a prominent way that hopefully joe biden saw it. What do you do about that legacy since you made a comment 40 years ago saying youre not responsible for that, what do we do about it sir . And when your answer is a morally obtuse point and an evil point in my view given the history of this country, the black peoples parenting skills are the problem which is what he said and secondly you make an absurd point which is black people dont play enough music. Im not sure what black people joe biden has encountered that he thinks music is not part of the black experience. But this rambling answer, this is a story of someone whose ideas belong back in the 1950s where they came from. Let me take part of the point that there are a lot of people like joe biden out there in the world, which i think is true and you know who really believes that . Black people. We know that we live in the 21st century and Lindsay Davis is only the fourth black woman to ever moderate a president ial level debate. Four in our in the history of television. So we know thats the case and we know what this country is. I spent the entire day yesterday at the Congressional Black Caucus sort of weekend events and im not going to say almost every every black woman who i spoke to about the election who was over age 40 and listen, black dont crack so i cant speak to anybodys actual age but everybody who appeared to be all the grown folks that i spoke to, 100 were for joe biden. All of them. Some of them fervently for joe biden and thats after the debate. The polling shows that joe biden among African American voters has nearly half which is what you need for the domination. It is literally black voters who have him ahead and i think thats partly because black voters dont have a lot of confidence in the electorate who you said a lot of them have those same dings as biden or sometimes Bernie Sanders, they have these things that are generational about race and a lot of black voters dont trust the electorate to do another obama type election. So their argumen person that th country, the way it really is, not the way we wish it is, but the way it is would elect. What do you say to those voters who say yeah, youre right, this is how the country is and that country is not going to elect any of these other progressive candidates or candidates of color. Theyre only going to elect joe biden . Look, first of all, we are early in this race. No votes have been cast, and i think particularly with older voters of all races frankly, with all voters actually, name recognition is an enormous advantage and this early on in a race someone who is the Vice President of the United States for eight years and by the way, a very loyal servant of the first black president in this country, a person who was a good man for that president. Hes going to have this kind of support. The question is what kind of support is he going to have a year from now . And the reality is the black community has been far more respectful of joe biden than joe biden has been of the black community. This wasnt someone using a term wrong. We have to be really clear. The wholetrope for like all of American History when you have asked questions about systemic racism, what has been done to black people for 400 years in this country, the basictrope of racism has always been what you are observing is actually their own fault. And on thursday night joe biden who wants to be the president of the United States and run against the White Nationalist basically blamed black peoples parenting skills and lack of music for the legacy of slavery. He has to he has to drop out. Its an important discussion. Im glad you were available to come on today because its the paul ryan saying its the culture. This is the thing that happens a lot to black people but i will submit again as i let you go the question is going to be how do you convince black voters, particularly black women voters who are the most consistent and most determined and the most civically minded voters. How do you convince them that the country is better than doing better than that. Right now people are very cynical about this country and about what its willing to do and whether or not electing president obama was a statement about what the country is or about a moment when the country tried to be different but really fundamentally is not different. So its a big question. Well have it again. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you. Before we go, a quick reminder, my latest book the man who sold america. Trump add the unraveling of the american story is still available. Yeah, so i want to just let you know that. Coming up, whats in a name, impeachment. We do talk about a lot of this racial background stuff as well. Let me know what you think. Up next, impeachment. Whats in a name. Thats next. In a name thats next. Limu emu doug and now for their service to the community, we present limu emu doug with this key to the city. [ applause ] its an honor to tell you that Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. And now we need to get back to work. [ applause and band playing ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Your business is up and running, but is it going beyond fast . Comcast business gives you high speed internet. We also have Solutions Like powerful wifi that gives your entire business more coverage and automatic internet backup that can keep your business running. And it all starts with our gigspeed network. So give us 10 minutes. If we cant offer you faster speed or better savings than your current internet service, well give you 300 dollars for your time. Call now to get your comcast business 10 minute advantage. Comcast business. Beyond fast. Weve been very clear in court filings, in public statements and in proceedings in the committee that we are in fact conducting investigation preparing to decide whether to recommend articles of impeachment to the house. You can call that an impeachment investigation, you can call that impeachment inquiry. Those terms have no legal meaning but thats exactly what were doing. Were involved in an investigation to determine whether to recommend articles of impeachment to the house. This week democrats managed to twist themselves into a knot with mixed messages between house leadership and house members over impeachment. The arguments are media catnip and potentially substantive. On the substance front the Judiciary Committee voted to set the rules for future impeachment investigation hearings and as you heard, jerry nadler made clear that what the committee is doing is setting the parameters for deciding whether to impeach donald trump. And if so, on what grounds. You know how we know how serious the threat of impeachment is regardless of whether house leadership wants to use the word . Because of the way trumps attorney general and full time sixer william barr kicked in defense mode. He told the judge that the Judiciary Committee should not get access to secret mueller materials in part because per the doj the committee hasnt made clear that this is an impeachment inquiry. A former u. S. Congresswoman and author of the case for impeaching trump and its great to talk to you. Youre one of my favorite people to talk to on this. Thank you. Lets go to the semantic question first. According to jerry nadler who is the relevant person here, impeachment is not started by the speaker, its started in the Judiciary Committee. He made it very clear theyre doing an impeachment i quirery. Does it matter what they call it . Technically i dont think it matters what they call it. I think the Justice Departments brief is way off base and shows that they dont even have the slightest comprehension of what impeachment is about. When we started the impeachment process and the only one that ever actually worked with regard to Richard Nixon, when we started we didnt have any authorization from the house of representatives. We got that later on. But thats thats neither here nor there because the fact of the matter is, what the Justice Department is saying is, if you dont say that youre going to impeach the president , in other words, if you might do your inquiry and then say well, theres not uf evidence or we think there should be other remedial legislation, thats not good enough. You just have to say youre going to impeach him. Well, when we started during the nixon impeachment process, we didnt know even after we had the house authorization whether we were going to have enough votes for impeachment. So thats just a ridiculous argument. We didnt know there were going to be any republicans joining us until three days before we had our debate months and months into the process. We had conservative southern democrats on the committee. We didnt know where they with. So the process has to take place and also they say well, you know, even if this were an impeachment inquiry the house shouldnt get the grand jury materials. Well, what world are they living in . During the nixon impeachment we got grand jury materials and we got it with the approval of the court. Thats a precedent thats there for 45 years. What are they talking about . I guess this is just like the new Trump Supreme Court they throw out all precedent, disregard history, dont know what theyre talking about but thats what we see with the Justice Department here and its highly political and its wrong. Let the house do its work. You know, nobody knows the outcome of an inquiry. They dont know whether its going to be whether there are going to be any grounds for impeachment. I personally think there are x but maybe theyll decide they arent after they do a thorough investigation. Then maybe theyll decide as we did actually in the nixon impeachment, there was several articles of impeachment that were proposed. I drafted one of them and they were rejected. Does that mean you have to drop the whole process . Its just what theyre saying is ridiculous, let the Fact Checking<\/a> biden. But joe biden didnt exactly leave the debate unscathed either. The day after the debate jokes about biden and record players, yes, he mentioned record players began to shift into a sharp critique first on social media anocolluding from my next guest and then in columns and commentary to Lindsey Daviss<\/a> question on repairing the legacy of slavery. Make sure that every single child does in fact have three, four and fiveyearolds go to school, school, not daycare. School. We bring social workers in to homes and parents to help them deal with how to raise their children its not that they dont want the help m f they dont know quite what to do. Play the radio. Make sure you have the record player on at night. The phone. Make sure the kids hear words. A kid coming from a very poor school or a very poor background will hear 4 Million Words<\/a> fewer spoken when they get there. The author of winners take all and smith of Rolling Stone<\/a> in response to that, fired off a column in which he said its time for joe to go. He said democrats need an anti racist dom knee nominee. A third confirmed biden isnt up to the task but before that even came out i noticed your tweets. You went on a tweet storm about that answer that joe biden gave and this is what you wrote. Joe bidens answer on how to address the legacy of depravely was appalling and disqualifying, you wrote. It ended in a sermon implying that black parents dont know how to raise their own children and said this cant go on. And in response to tim wise, anti racism educator tim wise who wrote sorry, but when you want to be president and you respond to the question about the legacy of slavery and how to address it by discussing better parenting and putting on the record player at night youre putting on a lack of depth. Those are strong words, so im going to let you explain your position on bidens answer. You know, i think on thursday night without intending to, joe biden threw himself a retirement party. And i dont say that lightly. I dont say the idea of him disqualifying himself lightly. But the reality is, this country is in a battle for its soul. An existential battle in which race is at is very heart, in which White Supremacy<\/a> is at the very heart and there have always been and this is really important to understand, two tradition, two manifestations of racism in American Life<\/a>. Theres racism with a hood, which is very easy to see and theres racism with a smile. Theres the racism of fire bombing churches which is very obvious and then racism of can i touch your hair . Theres the racism that is flagrant and the racism that is insidious and it is very clear and Everybody Knows<\/a> this that joe biden is not out of that tradition of the evil tradition of racism of the hood and hes not a white supremacist. But joe biden has revealed himself to be deeply steeped in and anchored in and unwilling to cut ties to that second subtler tradition of American Life<\/a> and we have to be real about that. This is the kind of comments that by the way, any person of color and black people especially have encountered all the time at work, all the time on the street, all the time in various aspects of life. It is thanksgiving and if you are running against a guy whose big idea is tax cuts maybe its fine. When you are running against a White Nationalist<\/a> what you are going to do is you are going to neutralize the central issue in this race by putting forward someone who has simply not changed from the mad men era. Last night, yesterday during the afternoon something interested happened to me. After i had done these tweets and talked about this, i was approached via twitter privately by a Trump Campaign<\/a> organization, an official Trump Campaign<\/a> organization that privately messaged me to try to share additional videos from other times about joe biden saying similar racist things. Now, im not interested in amplifying Trump Campaign<\/a> talking points. Why is that significant . They are ready. They know this is a good issue for them because if they can show that you know what, hes kind of said a lot of things also, he kind of said white people dont owe anything for the past in this country, he also said bussing is a bad idea. He also has said you know, some African American<\/a>, one candidate is clean and articulate in contrast to others. He also said the thing about the indian accent. He also gave too many women too many back rubs. They are very excited about this. That is an excellent point that one of the challenges, particularly for more liberal, more progressive voters in 2016 was this argument which is actually flagrantly absurd that there was not a big difference between Hillary Clinton<\/a> and donald trump, not a big enough difference for people to see there are two sides of the same kind of argument. Because Hillary Clinton<\/a> is very intelligent. Certainly a very experienced leader and donald trump is donald trump, but the risk that that could happen again i guess is what youre talking about. Now, the counter facts to that, which is a country that would elect donald trump, the kind of people who would vote for him but maybe dont like things about his character might feel comfortable saying well, ill go to joe biden because joe biden kind of shares my general my generalized discomforts in certain areas and makes the kind of mistakes that i might make if im that person and so hes kind of more like me or like my uncle or like my family and so that you could take a marginal voter in the middle who is an independent who said i couldnt see a huge enough difference so i went with trump but i went with him. I dont think the antidote to the poison of outright White Supremacy<\/a> is milk toast unconscious bias and a kind of white default. You know, what joe biden, yes, i think there are i think this is actually the whole point. There are a lot of people in america. I think there are not all that many people in america who are like donald trump. There are a lot of people like joe biden. But millions of them actually, and we dont talk about this enough, have been on a path in the last 10 or 20 years of getting better. Theres some other people pretty close to joe bidens auj in this race. Or older than him. I think Bernie Sanders<\/a> is the same age or one year different. So this is a problem of someone look, the things he says, the things donald trump says, lets put it this way. The things donald trump says have been out of bounds for a very long time. The things joe biden says were not out of bounds when joe biden was my age. Right . And that is a hard thing. This country has changed. Our norms have changed. We have now realized that things that nobody ever thought about in the mad men era were basically completely exclusionary of women and people of color. Weve enlarged our understanding. And many millions of americans have enlarged their understanding. I was talking to my parents the other day. My mom was reading a book for school and as an immigrant to this country, it has raised things for her that she didnt see that she now has a language for her own experience which shes experienced. Joe biden has so clearly not changed. Hes not changed. He is the person that we all know who who is so steeped in the idea that americanness means whiteness. His policies are great. Husba his policies are fine. Thats not the issue here. This is someone who cant see and when you are asked one month after the 400 Year Anniversary<\/a> of the first enslaved africans coming to these shores which is in the New York Times<\/a> in a prominent way that hopefully joe biden saw it. What do you do about that legacy since you made a comment 40 years ago saying youre not responsible for that, what do we do about it sir . And when your answer is a morally obtuse point and an evil point in my view given the history of this country, the black peoples parenting skills are the problem which is what he said and secondly you make an absurd point which is black people dont play enough music. Im not sure what black people joe biden has encountered that he thinks music is not part of the black experience. But this rambling answer, this is a story of someone whose ideas belong back in the 1950s where they came from. Let me take part of the point that there are a lot of people like joe biden out there in the world, which i think is true and you know who really believes that . Black people. We know that we live in the 21st century and Lindsay Davis<\/a> is only the fourth black woman to ever moderate a president ial level debate. Four in our in the history of television. So we know thats the case and we know what this country is. I spent the entire day yesterday at the Congressional Black Caucus<\/a> sort of weekend events and im not going to say almost every every black woman who i spoke to about the election who was over age 40 and listen, black dont crack so i cant speak to anybodys actual age but everybody who appeared to be all the grown folks that i spoke to, 100 were for joe biden. All of them. Some of them fervently for joe biden and thats after the debate. The polling shows that joe biden among African American<\/a> voters has nearly half which is what you need for the domination. It is literally black voters who have him ahead and i think thats partly because black voters dont have a lot of confidence in the electorate who you said a lot of them have those same dings as biden or sometimes Bernie Sanders<\/a>, they have these things that are generational about race and a lot of black voters dont trust the electorate to do another obama type election. So their argumen person that th country, the way it really is, not the way we wish it is, but the way it is would elect. What do you say to those voters who say yeah, youre right, this is how the country is and that country is not going to elect any of these other progressive candidates or candidates of color. Theyre only going to elect joe biden . Look, first of all, we are early in this race. No votes have been cast, and i think particularly with older voters of all races frankly, with all voters actually, name recognition is an enormous advantage and this early on in a race someone who is the Vice President<\/a> of the United States<\/a> for eight years and by the way, a very loyal servant of the first black president in this country, a person who was a good man for that president. Hes going to have this kind of support. The question is what kind of support is he going to have a year from now . And the reality is the black community has been far more respectful of joe biden than joe biden has been of the black community. This wasnt someone using a term wrong. We have to be really clear. The wholetrope for like all of American History<\/a> when you have asked questions about systemic racism, what has been done to black people for 400 years in this country, the basictrope of racism has always been what you are observing is actually their own fault. And on thursday night joe biden who wants to be the president of the United States<\/a> and run against the White Nationalist<\/a> basically blamed black peoples parenting skills and lack of music for the legacy of slavery. He has to he has to drop out. Its an important discussion. Im glad you were available to come on today because its the paul ryan saying its the culture. This is the thing that happens a lot to black people but i will submit again as i let you go the question is going to be how do you convince black voters, particularly black women voters who are the most consistent and most determined and the most civically minded voters. How do you convince them that the country is better than doing better than that. Right now people are very cynical about this country and about what its willing to do and whether or not electing president obama was a statement about what the country is or about a moment when the country tried to be different but really fundamentally is not different. So its a big question. Well have it again. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you. Before we go, a quick reminder, my latest book the man who sold america. Trump add the unraveling of the american story is still available. Yeah, so i want to just let you know that. Coming up, whats in a name, impeachment. We do talk about a lot of this racial background stuff as well. Let me know what you think. Up next, impeachment. Whats in a name. Thats next. In a name thats next. Limu emu doug and now for their service to the community, we present limu emu doug with this key to the city. [ applause ] its an honor to tell you that Liberty Mutual<\/a> customizes your Car Insurance<\/a> so you only pay for what you need. And now we need to get back to work. [ applause and band playing ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Your business is up and running, but is it going beyond fast . Comcast business gives you high speed internet. We also have Solutions Like<\/a> powerful wifi that gives your entire business more coverage and automatic internet backup that can keep your business running. And it all starts with our gigspeed network. So give us 10 minutes. If we cant offer you faster speed or better savings than your current internet service, well give you 300 dollars for your time. Call now to get your comcast business 10 minute advantage. Comcast business. Beyond fast. Weve been very clear in court filings, in public statements and in proceedings in the committee that we are in fact conducting investigation preparing to decide whether to recommend articles of impeachment to the house. You can call that an impeachment investigation, you can call that impeachment inquiry. Those terms have no legal meaning but thats exactly what were doing. Were involved in an investigation to determine whether to recommend articles of impeachment to the house. This week democrats managed to twist themselves into a knot with mixed messages between house leadership and house members over impeachment. The arguments are media catnip and potentially substantive. On the substance front the Judiciary Committee<\/a> voted to set the rules for future impeachment investigation hearings and as you heard, jerry nadler made clear that what the committee is doing is setting the parameters for deciding whether to impeach donald trump. And if so, on what grounds. You know how we know how serious the threat of impeachment is regardless of whether house leadership wants to use the word . Because of the way trumps attorney general and full time sixer william barr kicked in defense mode. He told the judge that the Judiciary Committee<\/a> should not get access to secret mueller materials in part because per the doj the committee hasnt made clear that this is an impeachment inquiry. A former u. S. Congresswoman and author of the case for impeaching trump and its great to talk to you. Youre one of my favorite people to talk to on this. Thank you. Lets go to the semantic question first. According to jerry nadler who is the relevant person here, impeachment is not started by the speaker, its started in the Judiciary Committee<\/a>. He made it very clear theyre doing an impeachment i quirery. Does it matter what they call it . Technically i dont think it matters what they call it. I think the Justice Department<\/a>s brief is way off base and shows that they dont even have the slightest comprehension of what impeachment is about. When we started the impeachment process and the only one that ever actually worked with regard to Richard Nixon<\/a>, when we started we didnt have any authorization from the house of representatives. We got that later on. But thats thats neither here nor there because the fact of the matter is, what the Justice Department<\/a> is saying is, if you dont say that youre going to impeach the president , in other words, if you might do your inquiry and then say well, theres not uf evidence or we think there should be other remedial legislation, thats not good enough. You just have to say youre going to impeach him. Well, when we started during the nixon impeachment process, we didnt know even after we had the house authorization whether we were going to have enough votes for impeachment. So thats just a ridiculous argument. We didnt know there were going to be any republicans joining us until three days before we had our debate months and months into the process. We had conservative southern democrats on the committee. We didnt know where they with. So the process has to take place and also they say well, you know, even if this were an impeachment inquiry the house shouldnt get the grand jury materials. Well, what world are they living in . During the nixon impeachment we got grand jury materials and we got it with the approval of the court. Thats a precedent thats there for 45 years. What are they talking about . I guess this is just like the new Trump Supreme Court<\/a> they throw out all precedent, disregard history, dont know what theyre talking about but thats what we see with the Justice Department<\/a> here and its highly political and its wrong. Let the house do its work. You know, nobody knows the outcome of an inquiry. They dont know whether its going to be whether there are going to be any grounds for impeachment. I personally think there are x but maybe theyll decide they arent after they do a thorough investigation. Then maybe theyll decide as we did actually in the nixon impeachment, there was several articles of impeachment that were proposed. I drafted one of them and they were rejected. Does that mean you have to drop the whole process . Its just what theyre saying is ridiculous, let the Judiciary Committee<\/a> do its work. The Justice Department<\/a> may be creating enough confusion so that judges may try to hold back. Hope they dont because i think that impeachment is something the framers really wanted to protect the democracy and the court shouldnt stop that process. A serious dlib rative process from going forward. I think you made the point that i really wanted to touch on you quickly. The i think what a lot of people are afraid of and what they worry about is that the reason that william barr can make these assertions that donald trump has so stacked the courts including the Supreme Court<\/a> with kavanaugh replacing kennedy. They that are confident that they can make what are absurd arguments that are ahistorical when it comes with the impeachment inquiry against nixon, but theyre comfort if it goes all the way theyve got a vote locked down with gorsuch and kavanaugh and the other conservatives. Thats my concern too. I think we did see in the census case that Justice Roberts<\/a> because the evidence was so overwhelming of political interference with the census process that to preserve the integrity of the court, roberts cast the correct vote, but can we be sure that thats going to happen here . I dont know the answer to it and im troubled about it and it may just well be that the house of representatives has to bite the bullet and say, were going to authorize an inquiry into whether there should be articles of impeachment. We were not when we were authorized we werent told you write articles of impeachment. Right. We were told inquire as to whether there were grounds. I think people get confused. Impeachment doesnt have to happen because you do an inquiry. Yeah. Its a grand jury, folks. Thats the way i would describe it. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Definitely check out our book if you want to know. In hour two of todays show we are going to dig deeper on impeachment. What the house vote this week actually means, whats behind the semantic confusion, but coming up and whats behind the semantic confusion, but coming up next the very real threat that donald trump poses to our National Security<\/a>. That is next. Ional security that is next face buried in your phone. Stop look up. Look both ways. Lets start looking out for each other again. Its a busy world out there. And were all in it together. Go safely, california. Face buried in your phone. Stop look up. Look both ways. Lets start looking out for each other again. Its a busy world out there. And were all in it together. Go safely, california. In may of 2017 donald trump met in the oval office with high ranking russian officials with no americans present. No u. S. Media, no cabinet members and we later learned after getting pics of the get together from Russian Media<\/a> that trump revealed highly classified Counter Terrorism<\/a> information jeopardizing an important intelligence source. Shortly after that meeting the cia decided to extract a different intelligence source, one of its most important. A russian informant with access to the highest level in the kremlin. Cnn was the first to break the story and most striking is this claim from a person directly involved in the discussions that the cias decision was motivated partly in quote that President Trump<\/a> repeatedly misand led classified intelligence and could contribute to exposing the covert source. The post and the New York Times<\/a> reported that the spy was pulled for other reasons including concerns that the source might have been a double agent. Both papers cited current and former officials in their point. Joining me now, author of the moscow rules. Thank you for being here. So glad to be here. Lets talk about this. Have you ever in your career in intelligence heard of the president of the United States<\/a> being considered a potential threat to the safety and identity of a highly placed source in a country like russia . Never. This is unprecedented. The fact that it was such a concern that the cia thought it prudent to remove this man, an invalue you believe resource, an invaluable conduit into putins russia and the Decision Making<\/a> process, they would pull him out rather than risk what was going to happen to him. Yeah. Let me play you an interview that Rachel Maddow<\/a> did this week with a former cia official. This is what he said about those. Take a listen. Its a red line that most people think in the United States<\/a> that putin will not cross. I for one believe he straddles that line as we speak, which means that you know, this particular individual who was outed, if you will, and was ex filtrated in 2017, i have no concern at this particular point in time that putin will come and get him now. What i worry about is a year from now, two years from now, five years from now, he has a wife and three kids. He was he was resettled in this country in true name. Under his real name and his real name as gotten out there in some reports and just to be perfectly clear, this particular informant was highly placed, had access to the kremlin. Was instrumental in the cias most explosive conclusion about rushs interference campaign that Vladimir Putin<\/a> ordered the attack on the election to help donald trump. That is a huge ringing bell in my head that this guy helped our guys, our good guys figure out that the kremlin was helping trump and now hes here under u. S. Protection. Should is that a worry to you . You know, when these foreign sources are reporting intelligence to us and this intelligence was absolute gold. When theyre providing us with that information, we are promising them from the beginning from day one protection. We will protect them as a source and if it goes badly, we will pull them out and we will resettle them. Theres a whole operational piece of the cia thats set up to do that. This man always knew that we would ex filtrate him if we needed to, but he would anticipate maybe coming here to live, he has come here now to hide for the rest of his life. He and his family are going to be worried that putin and his ilk are going to come after them and they shouldnt be worried. Do you trust donald trump to be the person presiding over keeping him safe . I would hope that donald trump is not the person. I would hope that the republican politicians around donald trump are not the people that are protecting this man. Politics has nothing to do with this man and the rest of his life. He provided what we needed, were lucky that we had him. Weve got the information thats necessary to make serious decisions. He should be able to live the rest of his life in the United States<\/a> without this constant threat hanging over him. We know there is a history, its happened before, scooter lib by who worked for dig cheney, they were angry, they were angry about the fact there was no uranium in iraq and they ousted valerie plain, they did that on purpose to punish the husband. So we know there has been a po litization and she was vocal that could put peoples lives in danger. In that case it was a lie from the Bush Administration<\/a> about war. In this case its Donald Trumps<\/a> legitimacy thats in question and we know that hes been able to get other officials, people like the head of the department of justice, the attorney general to do his bidding first. Most put him first. So again, i guess if you if youre in the position of this man, what are your concerns . And are you concerned about being in the United States<\/a> in that case . He is its just personal to donald trump. Im not sure why he decided to be resettled under his true name. Thats, you know, cant get into that. Thats too in the weeds. We would typically resettle a family, give them entirely new identities, all of them new identiti identities. Kn new identification. The fact he was here in his true name and in the washington, d. C. Area was running a little bit of a risk. Now that this has blown up in the press both here and abroad and in russia, all of a sudden, putin, who could have plausibly said oh, that guy was nothing. He had no clearances. He was a drunk, we fired him. He said all those things, now my sense is that putin is feeling an obligation to step forward. We have poked the bear and he is theyve asked interpol to look for him. Its a bad situation. I want to tank you for being here. I know youre a great friend with malcomb nance so i have to thank him for introducing us. A new level of cruelty against hurricane victims. That is next. You wouldnt accept an incomplete job from anyone else. Why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase sensimist. Nothing stronger. Nothing gentler. Nothing lasts longer. Flonase sensimist. 24 hour nondrowsy allergy relief now, theres skyrizi. I have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. 3 out of 4 people achieved. 90 clearer skin at 4 months. After just 2 doses. Skyrizi may increase your risk of infections. And lower your ability to fight them. Before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection. Or symptoms such as fevers,. Sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs. Or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. I feel free to bare my skin. Visit skyrizi. Com. Just between us, you know whats better than mopping . Anything at the end of a long day, its the last thing i want to do. Well i switched to swiffer wet jet and its awesome. Its an allinone so its ready to go when i am. The cleaning solution actually breaks down dirt and grime. And the pad absorbs it deep inside. So, it prevents streaks and haze better than my old mop. Plus, its safe to use on all my floors, even wood. Glad i got that off my chest and the day off my floor. Try wet jet with a moneyback guarantee i was really heart breaking to see and experience what i saw, wagner, not even hurricane floyd in 99. We had this kind of stuff. When my home collapsed and i felt like i almost died you know. Reporter because a lot of people died and i thought i was going to be one of them. To think that weve lost everything, you know, we just thank the lord that he is still with us. Im going to be sad to be leaving the island. This is home and theres no place like home. Two weeks after Hurricane Dorian<\/a> laid waste to parts of the bahamas, Tropical Storm<\/a> humberto is expected to lash the same area today with strong winds and rain. The death toll is at 50 but is expected to climb significantly. Another 70,000, thats 70,000 people have been left homeless. Theyre unlikely to find refuge in United States<\/a> just 50 miles away. On wednesday the house announced that it will not grant temporary protected im sorry, the white house announced it will not grant protected immigration status to evacuees of Hurricane Dorian<\/a>. When asked about it donald trump didnt hesitate to employ some of the same rhetoric weve been hearing since day one of his campaign. I dont want to allow people that werent supposed to be in the bahamas to come in to the United States<\/a> including some very bad people and some very bad gang members and some very, very bad drug dealers. Join me now is cochair of the caribbean caucus. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. On this idea that there will be no tps for refugees. The head of the cpb said no its not true, mark morgan said we are not working and telling any cruise lines you cant allow anyone without documents to come into the United States<\/a>. Thats just not done. Theres some confusion there. We will accept anyone on humanitarian reasons that needs to come leer. We need to process them. Well, i mean, listen, temporary protected status is there because we know that individuals who have been hit with natural disasters will have lost everything, will not have any documentation and thats why we ask that they come. We have embassies here, we have consulates here, if we need to verify individuals backgrounds and their identities, we have the capability of doing that. Well, we know that this is the white house particularly does not want immigrants particularly immigrants if certain places in this country and if people get tps they can also get work visas. Thats critical. Thats a possibility. We have to push back against that. Part of our humanitarian mission is to make sure that individuals taken away from harm but are also part of the solution for the nation. Those who would come and be able to work can now send remittances back to help with the rebuilding process. They are cohort of individuals from the nation who are here helping to rebuild and that i think is the most american thing that we can do. And theres a deep, deep connection. Absolutely. Generationally. Theyve been here for such a long time. Let me show you, this is some video of bah hamian named Renard Oliver<\/a> and his baby who were turned away to get off a ferry from the bomsz ahamas to florid. And the first job i had in news, my old station and lets look at that video. They just got a call from cdp and cdp told them that everyone that doesnt have a u. S. Visa has to come off. Normally you can travel. Right . Normally you can use Police Record<\/a> by way of airplane at least. Yeah. So you have to take your baby off . Yes, i have to take her off. How do you feel . At the last minute like this, you know, its kind of disappointing. Im watching my daughter cry, but yeah, it is what it is. The Ferry Company<\/a> apologized and blamed cpd. They blamed border patrol. This nation is sending mixed signals through the Trump Administration<\/a> and that will confound anyone who is trying to make sure that they are in compliance. And so i wouldnt blame necessarily the Ferry Company<\/a>. I think its our obligation to clarify. You have a bill on this. I do, hr 4272 which would extend tps do bah hamians. Any chance that Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> over in the senate would even look at it . Were going to have to work for it. This is a crisis and Hurricane Season<\/a> is not over. Right. So we think that its critical. We being the members of the house of representatives and our colleagues who have all signed on to this bill. Were going to make the case that its important that we do this. And the public should make Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> and republicans in the senate aware this is something important. Black and brown people are human beings and these refugees are unreal. The bahamas was really clobbered. Were hearing reports of human beings being swept into the ocean. Essentially the ocean covered the land mass. Thank you for being here. Well let everyone know about that bill. More am joy after the break. That bill. More am joy after the break. Whats going on . Its the 3pm slump. Should have had a p3. Oh yeah. Should have had a p3. Need energy . Get p3. With a mix of meat, cheese and nuts. Coming up, what specifically could democrats impeach donald trump for . And how would the politics actually play out . We will speed past the semantics debate and take a deep dive into impeachment right after this. Our 18yearold was in an accident. When i called usaa, it was that voice asking me, is your daughter ok . Thats where i felt relief. Were the rivera family and we plan to be with usaa for life. See how much you can save with usaa insurance. Thats where i feel normal. See how much you can save having an annuity tells me my retirement is protected. Learn more at retire your risk dot org. man hey. N banjo . Go home. woman banjo sorry, it wont happen again. Come on, lets go home. After 10 years, weve covered a lot of miles. Good thing i got a subaru. man looks like you got out again, huh, banjo. avo love is out there. Find it in a subaru crosstrek. So, again i ask, are you conducting an impeachment inquiry or not . If you are, just be honest with the american people. Will the gentleman yield so we can answer his question . I yield to so, the answer is, yes, we are engaging an impeachment investigation. Welcome back to a. M. Joy. Despite House Democrats<\/a> stumbling on their impeachment messaging this week, lets take the most relevant person in this case, congressman jerry nadler, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee<\/a>, which is where impeachment begins, at his word that, yes, they are now engaged in an official inquiry into whether to impeach donald trump. We have been very clear for the last several months in court filings, in public statements, and in proceedings in the committee that we are, in fact, conducting an investigation, preparing to decide whether to recommend articles of impeachment to the house. Now, you can call that an impeachment investigation, you can call that an impeachment inquiry. Those terms have no legal meaning, but thats exactly what were doing. Were involved in an investigation to determine whether to recommend articles of impeachment to the house. That is certainly a victory for the 134 democrats out of the 235 democrats in the house who now endorse impeachment, or at least the beginning of an impeachment inquiry or investigation into whether to recommend articles of impeachment. What caused so much confusion this week was the reluctance of house leadership, including the speaker, to use the word impeachment to describe the ongoing process. And speaker pelosis clear frustration about having to answer questions on the subject. Do you agree, do you concede now that an impeachment inquiry into President Trump<\/a> is under way . Do i concede now . Have you not paid attention to what weve been talking about for months . Weve been saying, were doing three things legislate, investigate, litigate. Thats the path we have been on, and thats the path we have continued to be on. Im not answering any more questions on this subject. Impeachment also did not come up, not even once, during thursdays democratic debate, despite the 2020 field being among the most vocal about removing trump. The reluctance amongst House Democratic<\/a> leader, per their public statements, has to do with the 59 of americans who still dont support impeaching donald trump, at least according to the latest monmouth poll. But as we heard in our last hour from former congresswoman elizabeth holtzman, who was among the democrats who was there for the impeachment process against Richard Nixon<\/a>, the public rarely supports impeachment until theyre convinced of it and convinced of why an election should be overturned. And thats the role of the impeachment hearings. Thats why you do them. Democrats who already favor impeachment have a grab bag of potentially impeachment offenses to choose from. Theres the obstruction of justice that was laid out clearly in the Mueller Report<\/a>, trumps pattern of selfenrichment using the office of the presidency, his status as the unindicted coconspirator in the hush money payments to stormy daniels, which are part of the reason his former lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen<\/a> sits in prison to this day. The Trump Administration<\/a> defying congressional subpoenas, his dangling of pardons, and his racist language, like those that experts have said help incite White Nationalist<\/a> violence, and also the go back comments he tweeted at four freshman democrats who are all u. S. Citizens, remarks listed by texas congressman al green, an impeachment supporter, as grounds for impeaching trump. We are now 415 days away from the 2020 election, meaning there are now 415 days left for democrats to act on impeachment, rather than relying on the possibility that trump will be removed from office by losing the election. Time is running out, and the drum beat of impeachment in Nancy Pelosis<\/a> divided caucus is getting louder. So, what will the democrats do . Joining me now is democratic congresswoman Sheila Jackson<\/a> lee, a member of the house Judiciary Committee<\/a> and the woman in whose district that debate took place this week, this past week. And congresswoman, first of all, are you surprised that impeachment didnt come up at that debate . Well, i was somewhat surprised. Obviously, the candidates have to answer the questions that the various questioners present to them, and their time is short, but it was sort of surprising. But i think the issue is not that there are no supporters of impeachment in those that are running for president , its a given that the house Judiciary Committee<\/a> is doing its tasks, doing its job and has been doing so now for going on almost a year, and now we will continue to do that as we proceed even more intently and intensely with an impeachment investigation. And you are a member of the Judiciary Committee<\/a>. That is the Relevant Committee<\/a> here when it comes to an impeachment inquiry or impeachment itself. In your mind, does it matter whether or not the speaker herself is willing to call it an impeachment inquiry, or in your mind, is that whats happening, regardless of the way she describes it . I think thats whats happening, regardless of how she describes it. Speaker pelosi has her responsibilities. We are very pleased with the framework of which we are operating under that the speaker agrees with, and as has been said, legislating, litigating and investigating. Our litigating is to, in fact, move us forward more intensely in the investigation. You made a point earlier about what happens in investigations. It moves the needle. It educates the public. It gives them a focus, and thats what we intend to do with witness after witness after witness, including don mcgahn, because we believe he has absolutely no reason to reject the demand for his presence before the committee. We have subpoenaed him. We have now gone to court. And now with the resolution that we passed just this past thursday, we believe the court will see that we are truly in an impeachment investigation, needing to get all of the facts to ensure that we have the truth. And joy, i just want to say this this is not a witch hunt. We have no particular desire to go after a president of the United States<\/a>. It is a sacred and somber responsibility. But we cannot leave all of what has occurred in this administration on the table without doing our article one duties and upholding the rule of law. Can you give us some insight into what areas . I named a whole big, long list of things that potentially could be written into articles of impeachment against this president that the public has all seen great reporting on. Are there particular areas that the committee is focused on when it comes to where you potentially could have Impeachable Offense<\/a>s . Well, from my perspective, the obstruction of justice is the most stark and devastating potential accusations that may draw up articles of impeachment, and that is a whole lineage of efforts by the president to tell people to fire director mueller. The backandforth of telling someone to fire, then telling someone to cover it up that you were told to fire, getting someone else to go to don mcgahn, for example, and whisper to him, going to general sessions before he was terminated to tell him to unrecuse himself so that he can take over the investigation and not have director mueller do it. Of course, the long sagger of director comey in terms of was he really fired because he wouldnt stand down on the Russian Investigation<\/a> or that he wouldnt go light or encourage lightness on general flynn. All of that is in the wheelhouse of high crimes and misdemeanors. To the american public, it is not a criminal act. I think the sdrindistinction wi Richard Nixon<\/a> is people could understand a burglary. But be reminded, it was called a lowrate burglary, but it was a burglary, but then it was the lying about the burglary. But let me tell you what it really was. After the senate had its hearings for about nine months, it was the smoking gun of the tapes. Right. Were investigating so that we can educate the public, but as well, find all the facts that may be relevant to then writing the articles of impeachment, which, by the way, that is what will go to the floor of the house for a vote. Congresswoman Sheila Jackson<\/a> lee, thank you very much for your time this morning. Really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. And i wish the people of was hms we are working. Joy, i am really overwhelmed by the terrible response of this presidency. We members of the United States<\/a> congress will be pushing dollars toward them for recovery, working on the tps, working on the visas, and we say to them that we stand as their friend and allies and pray for them on a regular basis. Thank you, congresswoman. Thank you for saying that. Really appreciate that. Thank you. And i know that all of the viewers of this show very much agree with that. Thank you. All right, joining me is maya wiley, senior Vice President<\/a> for social justice at the new school, greg sargent of the washington post, maria talisa kumar and paul, youre at a disadvantage, so ill let you go first. Where the congresswoman ended there was that theyre essentially trying to put forward through these hearings a very simple, understandable case for the public of potentially Impeachable Offense<\/a>s. Where she went was the obstruction of justice that was very clearly revealed, and lots of prosecutors agree with this, in the Mueller Report<\/a>. I wonder if it surprises you, as it does me, that she didnt go first to the simplest thing. She said simple and understandable using the white house to get rich, using the white house to make your businesses richer, using the white house to make people stay in it, whether its foreign leaders or even the United States<\/a> military. So, whats the most Impeachable Offense<\/a> of the many that we could consider for donald trump . How much time do we have, joy . So, i think the congresswoman is correct that the impeachment for obstruction of justice for the mueller investigation, that would be the easiest, because special counsel mueller laid it out in 400 pages, but its certainly not the only one. We could also think about trumps encouraging the russians, a hostile nation, to interfere with the 2016 election. We can think about all of the ways that he has corruptly tried to use the presidency to advance the interests of the Trump Organization<\/a>, or we could think about the ways that hes dangled pardons in front of anyone who can help get the wall built, even if they have to commit crimes in order to do so, or we can think about the way hes practically already been charged by the Southern District<\/a> for directing that criminal conspiracy to provide hush money payments to his women who hes had relationships with, or again, lastly, but far not least, i think that trumps appeals to white nationalism, his White Supremacy<\/a>, his antiblackness is certainly an abuse of office. So, if one of these charges had been levied against President Trump<\/a>, he would have been impaeched fast im sorry, if one of these charges had been levied against president obama, he would have been impeached fast, quick, and in a hurry, so what is the house waiting for . Yeah. And you know, maya, i think that is the key, is that so, there is a perception, if you talk to folks in the sort of democratic hill world, that the Mueller Report<\/a> didnt deliver the knockout punch, and it made it harder to make the very clear case that something in the Mueller Report<\/a> is what impeachment will be based on. Because it didnt deliver the knockout, now theyre having to reset and say, okay, the point of hearings is to convince the public. Right now, most of whom object to overturning the election through impeachment. That this man has done something that even if it isnt critical in court, is grounds for removal. And so, the simple cases would be enriching yourself off the white house. You can show people are staying in his properties, theyre going 40 miles out of their way to stay in his properties, even his own cabinet members are paying him to do their parties at his properties, bragging about it in public. Its very public. And so, that case do you the argument that im hearing back from democrats who are frustrated with the debate were having on the semantics is that you cant proceed to impeachment until you have made that case to the public, not just on news shows like this one, but in one hearing, one set of hearings. You know, i think so many important points have been raised, and your question is raising all the right ones, joy, and i really want to agree with paul on in. You know, whats going on here is that, first of all, were confused about what impeachment actually is. Yes. So, lets start with the fact that what everyone has said about the process is it is supposed to be a process of investigation. Thats how the constitution set it up. Youre not supposed to know where the plane is going in order to land it, right . Its a grand jury its a process. But its also a process thats political. It isnt just legal, and its not just criminal. And this is a point that were all needing to elevate. What the Founding Fathers<\/a> said you know, it was James Madison<\/a> who said, look, waiting four years for another election, thats a problem, because if we have someone who is incapacitated, maybe mentally, or is just abusing power, there has to be some way to address that before an election. Yep. And they understood they werent just talking about actually violating criminal law, right . Incapacitated or so, then, mason says, okay, how about maladministration . Right. And madison says, you know what, thats too vague. Lets be more concrete because were not saying just because we disagree with you, we can remove you from office. Right. And then they land on high crimes and misdemeanors, because that was commonly understood back in britain under the crown to mean youre abusing the public trust. Right. So, this goes back to your point just abusing the public trust by being, even if its lowlevel, unethical, but in a serious way, not even enough maybe to rise to a crime is absolutely impeachable. The founders it was hamilton, if anyone wants to read it, federalist papers 65, where he said, if you are engaging in misconduct thats not necessarily a crime or just abusing the public trust. Yeah. So, part of what were doing is having a government lesson in this country, because weve done it so infrequently, we forgot how it was set up in our constitutional order. I also think, though, the democrats are absolutely right to pursue obstruction because, you know, frankly, the frustration from a legal standpoint is that Robert Mueller<\/a> could have put it over the finish line. He just chose not to because of that office of Legal Counsel<\/a> memo, because he was saying, its your job to put it over the finish line. Because what Robert Mueller<\/a> said was, substantial evidence, substantial evidence, substanti substantial evidence. To the point where over 1,000, i think, and counting, former u. S. Attorneys said yeah, id prosecute that case. So, the challenge for democrats is that, yes, if they look at it if its corruption, the corruption builds. So, if donald trump is enriching himself, a year from now he will have enriched himself more, because if he feels he can do it, now it will be all Christmas Parties<\/a> of all members of congress have to be at maralago, all golfing trips must be to he could openly just do it. Then you also have cabinet officials below him who receive the message that this is okay, so the corruption bilthuilds, r, so you have to stop it. On the other side of it, nancy pelosi has to actually have the votes. Once it gets into the full house, its not clear it is not clear that they would have the democratic votes to put it over. Im going to read you just very quickly, meheres one person wh opposes impeachment at this point, max rose, elected in a conservative part of new york, and he says this from Staten Island<\/a> i fear the Democratic Party<\/a> is now at risk of repeating a similar baitandswitch mistake by focusing on impeachment instead of infrastructure, health care costs, putting people to work and livable wages and benefits. He said he needs to pass bills and sign it, thats what they were elected for. I think youre getting to a central tension. And i think the congresswoman made news by saying there is going to be a vote on articles on the floor. I hadnt heard that before. Maybe its been said by others, but she seemed to strongly suggest that thats going to happen, and this seems to me to be the central problem. Were all talking about the fact that theyre arguing over whether theres an impeachment inquiry, but thats really not what the fundamental incoherence really is, right . Yep. The real incoherence is that we know there is an impeachment inquiry under way. They are looking to they are inquiring into whether to bring articles of impeachment. What we dont know is whether a full vote on those articles has been precluded already. Right. Thats the real issue, right . Yeah. And so, by the way, i think we should give the leadership a little more credit in some ways, though, than theyre getting. Now they were very clear on the fact that there is an impeachment inquiry under way and its his duty. And for the speaker, for all the talk about how she got testy with the reporter and for all the talk about how she wont use this word or that word, she does appear to be supportive of nadlers approach. And so, thats been clarified now, and thats a real step forward. Theres this tendency to treat this debate as if its either full house support for impeachment on one side or nothing on the other, and a lot of people rage on twitter that theyre doing nothing, but thats really not quite a fair way to frame it, right . There is something happening. Again, though, the main question still remains whether a full vote has been precluded and ruled out already, in which case, why are we doing even this . And i think the history on this and im glad you made that point. A, the speaker is second in line to the presidency. It would be unseemly, because remember Newt Gingrich<\/a>. Go back in history. How unseemly was it for the speaker of the house, mr. Gingrich, to be rooting for an impeachment that, lets say the crimes extended to the Vice President<\/a> , would make Newt Gingrich<\/a> president , right . And so, in a sense, it makes sense for the speaker to be the one person whos reluctant, right, on impeachment, because she could, in theory, if mike pence were to be drawn into this notion of corruption and potentially impeachable, there is a line in which she is advancing her own status. Right. So it makes sense for her to be the reluctant one. I think that actually makes a lot of sense. But for the other job of speaker, and especially this speaker, who is a really good counter her job is to count those people. She needs to know how many max roses shes got and how many congresspeople shes got who want to impeach him. She clearly has to know the number. So the audience for whether or not he should be impeached is not just the public, its reluctant democrats. And shes threading the needle, joy. What she recognizes is, yes, we often talk about the squad of the Progressive Movement<\/a> and theyre the ones that are highlighted, about out what brought back the house was a lot of moderate democrats, max rose being one of them. The challenge i have with max rose is that he makes it sound as if theyre not legislating. No, theyre legislating. They have passed background checks. They have passed environmental rules. They have gone down the list. All of this legislation is sitting at the foot of Mitch Mcconnell<\/a>. Thats right. Mitch mcconnells not doing his job. So none of this legislation is ever going to see the light of day to the president s desk. So, they have to be very clear. And this is where i think that the democrats really have to recognize and really uplift all the work that they are doing at the same time as theyre investigating. And theyre not doing those two things. But i do also encourage something that i think that pelosi understands and that the rest of the public needs to understand is that unless we are highlighting those two issues, like yes, theyre legislating and yes theyre moving forward, this president s going to get away with something, and hes going to get away with increasingly dangerous rhetoric that is harming 40 of the american people. When we talk about people of color, we make it sound like were marginalizing a group of people. No, were talking about 132 million of us living in this country. And the moment that this president incites that violence and all of a sudden we look away from it, everybody feels less safe. Well, when hes making bahamian, desperate bahamians who are trying to leave a place where there is incredible death we think the death toll will be very high and saying among them are probably some criminals and criminalizing brown people and black people, its dangerous, right, when he highlights them. But at the same time, this idea that democrats who oppose impeachment are making theres one part of their argument that feels incoherent, which is that it wont work in the senate. This is what another democrat who opposed impeachment, gerald golden said jared golden. This is an op ed in the maine sun sentinel. Impeachment would die in the senate, but more damaging, i believe impeachment proceedings would unleash an era of even greater divisiveness in our country, one of which we might not return. Im coming back to you on this, greg, because every piece of legislation theyre passing dies in the senate, all of it. So, if their goal is what max rose said, which is that we want to pass infrastructure bills, any infrastructure bill that a majority of democrats like would die in the senate. Anything they do will die in senate. So that does not feel like a very coherent argument. Id like to say that both of those arguments that weve talked about from the centrist members are bad arguments, right . Max roses argument is bad because we know that we dont actually have to frame this as a choice between legislating on the one hand and investigating on the other. Investigating is good governing. Thats one of the core roles of the constitution institutional roles of the house. So when max rose says that, what hes doing is actually creating an unnecessary, builtin criticism of the act of investigating right. Which is kind of a weird thing to do since your role is to hold the president accountable, at least in part. And joy, one of the things that folks inside the hill theres a lot of republican members who are not they dont feel comfortable with this president. So, i would encourage them, instead of saying im not going to run again, become independent. Declare yourself that youre going to become independent, that youre not a democrat, youre not part of this party, but you still believe in good governance. And if you can thread the needle that way, then it does give people a choice, that this is not partisan, but this is about our country and democracy. Theyre missing also the point that if the idea is to legislate, but donald trump doesnt respect the legislation that youve passed exactly right. Meaning you say this is the budget appropriation and he says, to hell with that, im taking money from the pentagon and im going to take it away from military schools and build the wall, he doesnt respect your legislation. What is the actual point of legislating with somebody who doesnt even feel that hes bound in by the rule of law . I think this is exactly the point, you know. And i think what was unfortunate about the way representative rose framed, one, that he took a position in the absence of having the hearings, i think it would be totally fair to say i have to hear, i have to see the evidence i have to hear first. And what representative underwood did, which was complete, in a very similar district that trump won, and what she said was, no one is above the law. Right, exactly. No one is above the law. She didnt say im going to vote for articles of impeachment, im not going to vote she said im open to hear. And so, what are we protecting, if not our democracy . Because our democracy is practice. Absolutely. Absolutely. This is a great conversation we have to have again, but i want to have you all come back because i think the bigger question then is what would be the actual facts on the table, like, what would they actually be debating that is potentially impeachable. So i would love to have you come back and discuss that. Maya, paul, greg sargent, finally got you on the show. Thank you for being here. And maria teresa kumar, thank you very much. Coming up, new information on trump allegedly lining his pockets no surprise here, it is relevant to this discussion with military money. Thats next. Scussion with mi money. Thats next. So i can buy from enterprise car sales and youll take any tradein . Thats right great here you go. Well, it does need to be a vehicle. But i need this out of my house. vo with fair, Transparent Value<\/a> for every tradein. Enterprise makes it easy. So that early retirement we planned. Its going ok . Great. Now im spending more time with the kids. Im introducing them to crab. Crab . They love it. So, you mentioned that that money we set aside. Yeah. The kids and i want to build our own crab shack. Ahhh, youre finally building that outdoor kitchen. Yup with room for the whole gang. See how investing with a j. P. Morgan advisor can help you. Visit your local chase branch. At comcast, we didnt build the nations largest gigspeed network just to make businesses run faster. We built it to help them go beyond. Because beyond risk. Welcome to the neighborhood, guys. There is reward. Beyond work and life. Who else could he be . There is the moment. Beyond technology. There is human ingenuity. Every day, comcast business is helping businesses go beyond the expected, to do the extraordinary. Take your business beyond. Welcome back to a. M. Joy. We are watching a ton of news. R. We voluntarily stopped doing any international deals. I mean, just think of the opportunity cost, the amount of deals that i have done over the last ten years. Extrapolate that over the eight years of what will be his presidency, thats a lot of deals. We just they talked somebody bought a cheeseburger at the trump hotel. Its asinine. And youve seen where the emolument suits have gone. Theyre just trying. Mmhmm, okay. The controversy surrounding Donald Trumps<\/a> habit of directing Government Spending<\/a> to his familys businesses and properties is only getting worse, no matter what don junior has to say on fox. Earlier this month, politico broke a story about an International Guard<\/a> crew making an unusual stop at a trump property in scotland. Now the air force has confirmed, it sent crews to trumps turnbury resort up to 45 times since 2015. The practice is one of several possible violations of the emoluments clause that House Democrats<\/a> are currently looking into. Maya and paul are back with me. Maya, we were talking about the substance, not the debate over what impeachment is in general, but the actual substantive things that could wind up being on the plate of House Democrats<\/a> for an impeachment. This sounds like one of them. If the president is directing in any way, subtly, explicitly, the military to make use of his resort 40 miles from the airport, when there are Cheaper Hotels<\/a> close to the airport that the military used to use, and even members of the military are complaining because they dont get the restaurants or facilities they need, that they would be able to afford near the airport that theyre using, it really does make it a possible case of exactly what we were talking about for impeachment, which is, youre just enriching yourself. Yeah. Youre just and youre misusing your power, because its not power being executed for the american people, but youre doing it with the u. S. Military. Yeah. Thats a National Security<\/a> issue as well. I also want to bring in. We have our good friend, seema iyer, who is also here. She is a court tv anchor and podcast host. Im going to come to you on this, because the house investigators have a set of priorities in mind. Sure. One of them is the violations of the constitution and the rule of law. They have got this, the emoluments probe, what were talking about today, essentially enriching himself off of the white house. The g7 pitch to host the g7 at his doral resort, literally saying these seven foreign governments maybe eight if he invites putin would pay him to stay at his resort the military paying to stay at Trump Properties<\/a> and the diversion of military funds to give to people to build a border wall. This sounds like where an impeachment investigation is very likely to go. You cannot lump all of these transactions, though, into one pile, joy, because lets be clear, that resort in scotland. The airport had a deal with that resort back from 2014, way before trump ever even ran for president , okay . So, that existed prior to that. And then i think it was 2015. I think, okay, fine, 2015. Now the refueling deal was signed by obama in august of 2016. So, if you look at what trump may have done after that point, it was just renable. Just, its a numbers game, right . The air force, the military, theyre going to use that airport as a refueling station because of the agreement that obama signed. So, you have to take each individual transaction. For instance, if trump wants to get the g7 at his resort, fine. Then you may have an emoluments problem. But you cannot lump every single transaction. You have to separate did trump make this money because of his presidency, or did the agreement, was that in effect prior to him becoming president. Let me read you a piece of the politico story by our friend, natasha bertrand. It says the air force has significantly ramped up its overnight stays in scotland under trump after signing a contract, as you said, with the prestwick airport, situated 20 miles from turnbury in the waning months of the Obama Administration<\/a>, and that would be in 2016. Since 2015, the service has lodged crews in the area 659 times, meaning up to 6 of those stays were at turnberry. But heres the challenge. Turnberry was actually closed. It was closed down for renovations throughout much of 2015, so you cant say that there were stays at turnberry. The resort the deal with the airport is a separate issue right. Whether or not the Obama Administration<\/a> authorized refueling at that resort. That did not hold on okay. The Obama Administration<\/a> did not in addition to that say lets add the turnberry resort to the list of authorized hotels where people in the military could stay. The use of the turnberry resort is a completely separate issue from refueling at that airport. The thing that has changed is that, yes, the refueling is still happening at prestwick airport, but now what were seeing is crews going 40 miles out of their way to do something that sure as heck was not a standard thing to do joy. Which is to stay at trumps property. Okay, but joy, lets be clear. They are getting a rate of 130 to stay at a resort compared to 40 milesway from where they could stay cheaper. Joy, i would rather stay at a resort if it took me 40 miles to get there as opposed to the motel 6 closer to the airport if its so much cheaper hold on, its a resort, meaning that the money that people get every day to spend, the per diems were not even enough for those members of the military to stay and eat at the resort. Thats in the story. Their per diems did not even meet the amount that it cost to stay there. So, this is not just were making a choice of a hilton or a marriott. Theyre staying somewhere where theyre per diems arent even enough money for them to be there and stay and eat every day. They are actually overspending. If we did that on our Corporate Card<\/a>s, if i did that right, right. If i said im going to take my Corporate Card<\/a> and spend 1,000 when i could have spent 400, trust and believe corporate would have some words involved. Okay. Joy, im not saying that we are not riding on the line of an appearance of impropriety, but i am also pointing to the fact that and this is according to the New York Times<\/a> at this point, there is little evidence of a systemic scheme to enrich President Trump<\/a>. Key words, at this point. Because the military isnt talking. Let me get right, so you investigate the military wont even talk to congress. Theyre being awfully quiet. Ill let paul get in here, because the challenge is those words, at this point, because the military is very circumspect about how it is that they found their people going 40 miles to stay at trumps resort. There is no reason why a Service Member<\/a> would want to stay at that resort. A cheeseburger cost 26. They get a certain amount of money a day. Its way away from the air base. So why in the world would they want to stay there . There is also a deal between the Trump Organization<\/a> and the airport. The airport is going bankrupt. It was losing money. Thats why it was sold for 1. So, the Trump Organization<\/a> makes a deal well steer our customers to the airport if you encourage people to stay at our resort, so thats the deal. But that deal was in place prior to his running for president. And then you have then he once he becomes president , it becomes an emolument. Because this is how he runs his business. This is how he runs his business. Unlike almost any other president , he didnt transfer his interests to a blind trust. He transferred his property interests to a trust thats controlled by his family and led by eric trump. He gets quarterly updates about how his business is doing. He maintains a Business Ownership<\/a> interest in them, and he can draw out payments whenever he wants, so hes vitally interested in how all of his properties are doing and thats why hes using the white house as kind of a cash cow to increase the profits of the Trump Organization<\/a>. Paul, we are out of time, but the point you have no proof that the white house has increased his profitability. You have to show proof. What . Thats why we need oversight. Literally businesses that are owned by donald trump that were in the red were losing money are now making money. Thats proof enough. And on the argument that he was doing it before he was president , yes, thats why the emoluments clause refers to the president. Before youre president , jimmy carter can sell peanuts from the peanut farm. Once hes president , he sells the peanut farm. And if he becomes president and says all peanuts need to come from the farm, that would be an emoluments issue. Thank you, welcome back, and we will do this debate again. We love to debate. Coming up next, well tell you if character still counts with evangelical christians. That is next. Evangelical chris. That is next choosing to foster a child is choosing to nurture and emotionally support children in urgent need. Its not just about opening up your home; it is also about opening up your heart. Consider fostering. You wanna see something thatamazing . Ing. Go to hilton instead of a travel site and youll experience a whole new range of emotions like. The relaxing feeling of knowing youre getting the best price. Thesell work. The utter delight of free wifi. Oh man this is the best part. Isnt that you . Yeah. And the magic power of unlocking your room with your phone. I can read minds too. Really . Book at hilton. Com. If you find a lower rate, we match it and give you 25 off that stay. Expect better. Expect hilton. Want to freshen your home without using heavy, overwhelming scents . 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Go in for your annual checkup. And be open with your doctor about anything you feel. Physically, and emotionally. Body and mind. Cigna. Together, all the way. Thats better. If just seems like a miscarriage of justice that this one person would be characterizing an entire school. We feel very marginalized and we just want to voice the concern that were not, you knokno know, whats happened. We are genuinely a few dozen students from Liberty University<\/a> held a protest friday in the wake of a bombshell expose in Politico Magazine<\/a> about the schools president , Jerry Falwell<\/a> jr. The piece portrayed the evangelical leader as behaving in ways that are, to say the least, antithetical to his professed beliefs. The report was written by a Liberty University<\/a> alum niz after interviewing more than two dozen former and current Liberty University<\/a> officials. They detailed instances of falwell allegedly partying at nightclubs, graphically discussing his sex life with employees, and electioneering for donald trump. Nbc has reached out to falwell in the wake of the politico story but has gotten no response. John fuguel stank is with me and fred schaffer, author of why i am an atheist who believes in god. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Officials depicted how falwell and his wife, becki, consolidated power at Liberty University<\/a> and how falwell presides over a culture of selfdealing, directing University Resources<\/a> into projects and real estate deals in which his friends and family have stood to make personal financial gains. Among the previously unreported revelations are falwells decision to hire his son, treys company to manage a Shopping Center<\/a> owned by the university. Falwells advocacy for loans given by the university to his friends and falwell awarding University Contracts<\/a> to businesses owned by his friends. Fred schaffer, what do you make of this controversy and does anything in that report surprise you . Nothing surprises me about it, because back in the 70s and 80s, when my father was one of the founders of the religious right, francis schaffer, and i was his help in tistic sidekick trailing along, we were trailing along in Jerry Falwell<\/a> sr. s private jet that he lent us. And back then, its deja vu all over again. Weve seen this all before. Remember jim baker and the scandal there. Remember oral roberts sr. And then his son, richard roberts, both of whom i knew. I spoke at Jerry Falwell<\/a>s church. I spoke at Liberty College<\/a> when it was Liberty University<\/a> back in the day. And i knew these people. So you know, if you look at trumps attorney, jay sekulow and his family who take in about 230 million a year in contributions and pay themselves out millions, when you look at people like kenneth copeland, whos worth 750 million, when you look at benny hin, worth 40 million, Jerry Falwell<\/a> jr. Is just another con artist grifter cashing in on 501 c 3 taxdeductible status. Theres a long history of this. First of all, it doesnt represent the best of christianity in this country. It is the evangelicals who should be rising up furious that their name is dragged through the mud again and again and again by these con artists. And then when you look at the present situation, one thing has changed. The old con artists like oral roberts were glad just to make money, squirrel it away, steal, lie, et cetera, et cetera. Now we have Jerry Falwell<\/a> jr. , and what he wants is access to power, and not just any power, White Nationalist<\/a> power, racist power, power that lies, power that commits adultery, power that has porn artists have to be paid off with checks written in the oval office. Thats the situation were in. So, its a step lower than the traditional evangelical white con artist grifters out there. Now its con artists married to a neo fascist, new Republican Party<\/a> thats all about white nationalism. Thats whats changed. And you know, john, theres been a denial first, but let me read you another report. This is a separate one from reuters that reported that falwell has blasted a University Student<\/a> as retarded, quote unquote, a police chief as a halfwit in emails. Liberty university issued a 19page rebuttal, not to that, but to the politico and the reuters articles, saying Liberty University<\/a>s releasing this information on what would typically be private Business Matters<\/a> to set the record straight. In an Associated Press<\/a> interview this is three from my producers now, Jerry Falwell<\/a> jr. s asking for an investigation. He wants the fbi to investigate what he called a criminal Smear Campaign<\/a> orchestrated against him by several disgruntled former Board Members<\/a> and employees. He told the Associated Press<\/a> he has evidence that the group improperly shared emails with reporters to discredit him and said the attempted coup was partially motivated by his backing of donald trump. What do you make of his denials and what do you make of his status remaining in the evangelical Community Given<\/a> what apparently even some of his insider folks knew . Well, its interesting in the era of the russia investigation, now the new trendy thing is for your investigators to be investigated. Id love to see more scrutiny landing on Jerry Falwell<\/a> jr. s church. He is not a pastor. Its very important to remember that. His brother got the church. He got the school when reverend falwell sr. Left us. Now, i had the pleasure of debating reverend falwell on bill mahers show once, and he was a remarkable guy, reverend falwell sr. He was a segregationist who built whitesonly schools. He defended apartheid. He said 9 11 was gods punishment on america. I grew up in the 80s as a kid being raised by an exnun, looking at a media culture that said this is what christianity is. And for too long, weve had a media world where we have atheists and then you have people who scream at women outside clinics, and thats meant to represent the spectrum of spirituality. Most inventory gelicals, including those i talk to, dont take falwell jr. Too seriously as one of their own. He is mainly there because, as frank pointed out brilliantly, hes a grifter with a last name. Oh, look at the picture you just showed when i said that. So, you know, the main thing about it is that for so many years, hes able to do this, and these modernday pharisees have really got a clever racket going. This is a guy who endorsed donald trump after trump promised to turn away war refugees, to bring back torture. Jesus never said cut taxes for the wealthiest nazarenes. They voted exactly against the teachings of jesus for trump. Its the same with mike pence. We had this idea where, well, im against gays, so im christian, even though jesus was never against gay people. So mike pence can sign a law in indiana saying you can turn away private taxpayers if theyre gay because it offends your religion, but no one in the culture ever says, where does your holy book say jesus drove the gay cakes out of the temple . The great, great achievement of falwell sr. Was this racket where theyve convinced christians to vote against everything christ talked about, by talking about abortion, which christ never talked about. This scrutiny is good news, and i hope its applied to more people because those young people who go to Liberty University<\/a> deserve better. And frank, why is it that people like Jerry Falwell<\/a> jr. And donald trump have such a firm hold then on just average, ordinary, white evangelicals . Well, we know they do because 83 of them voted for trump and the bedrock of his support is white evangelicals. You have to understand, you know, with or without russia, trump is not president if white evangelicals hadnt voted for him. I think what has happened is that the white evangelical movement im not speaking of all individuals but as a movement, has been rebranded as a personality cult yep. And they are trying to follow one person who, as john said earlier, correctly, is about as far away from jesus and his teachings as you can get. So, the jump that has been made is not just a jump to an innocuous personality cult, it is a jump to the antithesis, the exact opposite of everything christianity at its best ever stands for. Its the opposite of feeding the widow and orphan. Its the opposite of reaching out to the stranger. It contradicts everything about the best of the Old Testament<\/a> and the new testament. And so, what you have to see is that Jerry Falwell<\/a> jr. Has made himself into the leader of a heretical movement that any christian at any point in history would judge outside christianity the same way that the nazis coopted the Lutheran Church<\/a> and many evangelicals and roman catholics and took them outside of the tradition of christianity and they backed hitler instead, to their great sorrow and detriment, which is one reason so much of europe is secularized today. The same fate awaits the evangelical movement, unless it turns away from this personality court. And back to you on this, john, because this is the movement thats also driving the takeover of the american courts, the federal court system, because they very much want control of the courts, both to have their own pi kunary interests on what they would view their christian interests, but also procorporate interests protected. Indeed. It is all about the profit, not the prophet. And you know, again, you have to show me in your holy book where jesus said this is what he believes, if youre going to fight for this kind of discrimination or this kind of profit. This is why so many people are turned off to religion. Its the hypocrisies of the modern pharisees, and its good to see this being made because there are a lot of decent christians out there trying to live by the tenants and sermon on the mound. Really great conversation. Thank you guys. Really appreciate you being here. Thank you. Coming up, the controversial political ad controversial is a nice way to put it that featured a burning image of alexandria ocasiocortez. That is next. Dria ocasiocortez th iats next i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Now, theres skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved. 90 clearer skin at 4 months. After just 2 doses. Skyrizi may increase your risk of infections. And lower your ability to fight them. 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Ask your doctor about xarelto\u00ae. To learn more about cost and how janssen can help, visit xarelto. Com. This is the face of socialism. Mine is a face of freedom. My skin is not white. Im not outrageous, racist, nor socialist. Im a republican. A political ad that aired during this weeks democratic debate on some abc stations has sparked outrage. The ad showed a photo of congresswoman alexandria ocasiocortez consumed by fire followed by a warning about socialism and jarring images invoking the genocide of the khmer rouge in cambodia. The ad is from the Political Action<\/a> group new faces gop, which is led by former congressional candidate elizabeth hang. Ocasiocortez responded on twitter writing republicans are running tv ads setting pictures of me on fire to convince people they arent racist. Life is weird. The ad ran on some local abc stations, including some owned by the sinclair broadcast group. Both abc and sinclair have declined to comment. Author and media analyst eric boelard is joining me now. Let me play you these responses on friday. I was merely making the point of do you want to know what incites violence . Thats socialism. Weve seen that i think ads like that incite violence. I disagree with you on that. So, she had an opportunity to get on television on cnn to defend herself and she essentially defended herself by saying her ad would not incite violence, socialism incites violence. The fact that it ran is a disgrace. This is not an ad that slipped through. If youre an abc affiliate and abc is hosting a democratic prime time debate and a highly partisan ad comes in, everybody looks at it, and everybody looks at it and says, this is fine, this is part of our conversation, lets go ahead and air this. It was insightful for two reasons. First of all, not only did they set her picture on fire, but supporting the green deal and supporting medicare for all has nothing to do with genocide in cambodia several decades ago. So, this is an example of the media being so immune to the conservative culture of hate and violence that you look at an ad like this and say, yeah, lets go ahead and air this. I mean, my goodness Republican Convention<\/a> next summer, if some group came up with an ad and superimposed trumps image on a nazi rally, do you think these stations would look at it and say, sure, lets go ahead and air that . Again, theyre so immune to conservative violence and hate and the culture that permeates there, and theyre also intimidated, right . And this is a preview of 2020. If theyre burning her picture in 2019, imagine what the ads in 2020 are going to look like. And its kind of a dare you to these major Media Companies<\/a>. Go ahead and reject this ad. Then were going to go to fox and then go to Rush Limbaugh<\/a> and then trumps going to tweet about it and then see what happens. So theres an intimidation game thats going on, too, and it is really disgraceful. And this particular group, new faces gop, theyre specifically looking for nonwhite people to be the front of this. Right. So as you said, then if the ad is rejected, you can say, aha, you didnt want this ad with this person of color. But this is not new. Max khalilen was a war hero, was attacked in ads, superimposed with pictures of al qaeda. The ads of howard dean were vicious. This is a thing thats done, and as you said, its done to democrats. Oh, its done all the time, and its done all the time. And again, its kind of become the norm. And we talk about sinclair. No one should be surprised this is a part of sinclair. In 2004, they forced their stations to run an entire hourlong antijohn kerry documentary one week before the election. So, this is pure propaganda on their part. But it also is a signal to other Media Companies<\/a> you are going to have to have a spine for the next 12 or 16 months, and youre going to have to have the guts to say to these rightwing hate groups, no, this does not clear our standards, this is not part of our public conversation, and if you want to create, you know, phony outrage, go ahead, but were sticking by our standards. And im nervous that media months. Es might not have the yeah. Maybe they should be as good as nascar, which said no more ar15 ads at nascar. Just be like nascar, how about that . Eric boehlert, thank you very much for being here. My pleasure. Great talking to you. Thank you. And before we go, sad news for the a. M. Joy family. Our longtime beloved guest and friend michael nance lost his wife, who passed away on wednesday. In malcolms words, she was a brilliant landscape architect, devoted mother, fierce patriot, a Proud Navy Wife<\/a> and the one great love of my life, he wrote. Rest in peace, maryse. Malcolm, our love and prayers are with you. Malcolm, our love and prayers are with you john smith. Or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana Medicare Advantage<\/a> members. No, its this john smith, who met with humana to create a Personalized Care<\/a> plan. At humana, we have more ways to care for your health, and we find one that works just for you. No matter what your name is. Why accept it frompt an incompyour allergy pills . E else. Flonase sensimist. Nothing stronger. Nothing gentler. Nothing lasts longer. Flonase sensimist. 24 hour nondrowsy allergy relief Liberty Mutual<\/a> customizes your Car Insurance<\/a>, hmm. Exactly. So you only pay for what you need. Nice. But, uh. Whats up with your. Partner . Not again. Limu thats your reflection. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty here, hello starts with hi mple. How can i help . A data plan for everyone. Everyone . Everyone. Lets send to everyone [ camera clicking ] wifi up there . Ahhh. Sure, why not . Howd he get out . a camera might figure it out. That was easy glad i could help. At xfinity, were here to make life simple. Easy. Awesome. So come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today. That is our show for today. A. M. Joy will be back tomorrow at 10 00 a. M. Eastern. Mean meanwhile, alex witt has the latest. I miss having you here, too. Our condolences to malcolm nance. That is terrible news. Cancer is the worst thing. Its just evil. But malcolm is a wonderful, wonderful person, as you know. Hes just a great guy. Very much so. So, our hearts go out to him. My friend, talk to you soon. Thanks again. And a good day to all of you from msnbc World Headquarters<\/a> in new york. It is noon in the east, 9 00 a. M. Out west. Welcome to weekends with alex witt. Breaking news and official confirmation, a son of Osama Bin Laden<\/a> is killed. A u. S. 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