Back. Overnight weve seen the president evolve his thinking to now advocate for the Death Penalty and, regardless, both of these statements are somewhat inappropriate and unprecedented just in terms of what a president traditionally would say, which is to restrain from offering this sort of commentary. It is in keep with the kind of public persona that donald trump has cultivated over many, many years in public life of trying to show himself to be strong and tough and have this steely resolve. But hes not a commentator anymore. Hes the president of the United States. So theres a different standard, and his words carry a different weight. Theres an obliviousness to the fact that he sits atop the federal government. A federal government whose Justice System he described yesterday as a Laughing Stock and a joke. Well, the comment to first it just shows his total lack of rigor in making any
pronouncements. This is someone who revels in his unpreparedness. Its an improvisational act. Theres no thought that goes into anything that comes out of his mouth from the callousness displayed towards puerto ricans, la David Johnsons widow, across the board. Secondly it shows a real contempt, a real ignorance for the concept of the rule of law. And you see it over and over again. His denigration of the federal judiciary. The comey firing. Were a nation of laws. And weve never had a situation where the president of the United States has such pronounced and profound indifference to the concept of the rule of law. So his comments, though not surprising, are inappropriate as they almost always are. Eli, i guess im always surprised, and i probably shouldnt be anymore, but im always surprised when a new norm is obliterated. And i asked jeremy bash the
question yesterday, is this response to the attack a norm that was violated but that his supporters would love or is this one where hes actually jeopardized the case . I think its both. And i think when you look at what hes doing there is a consistency in his response to these kind of situations. To terrorism when the terrorism appears to be carried out by somebody who is from an arab country, muslim country, not from the United States. This is the rhetoric we heard all throughout the campaign. The blood thirst. The aggression. The retribution. Those are things his supporters really like. Now that hes president , it is problematic. As pete pointed out. The fact these are subtle legalities, basically tells you that this never once occurred to the president because he was just answering a question. And everything is done kind of rapid fire in the moment, just read and react. Thats all improvisational. But it does the unifying
thread is the sort of broader politics of donald trump. The ethnocentric nationalism. He didnt react this way when a white person shot dozens of people in las vegas. He did not come and say, we have to do an immediate policy change. We need to give this guy the Death Penalty. He did not call for this after charlottesville when the criminal here did the exact same thing as the person in this case, driving a vehicle into a crowd. You step back from all of this and you view it in the context of his broader political appeal, its not surprising at all. Exactly. You shouldnt be surprised. Norm after norm after norm. I thought we had progressed a little bit. Weve just been set back. This is who he is as steve said. Hes improvisational as eli said. He is obsessed with projecting this image of strength. Now people who are obsessed with projecting an image of strength
are generally insecure and feel inadequate in some way. But that may be as it may, that is who he is and hes president of the United States right now. So he says totally inappropriate things. And for the president to jump into the middle of a criminal prosecution is not done, but, yeah it is. And i guess my point about being surprised is that weve sort of become accustomed to that which is inappropriate. This is the first time hes jeopardized a prosecution of a terrorist on his watch. Right, right. Exactly. And, you know, the idea of somehow transferring this guy to Military Custody and transferring him back. Its insane. And thats never going to work. It was a bad idea, but to him, it wasnt even an idea. It was almost a reflex. Must be tough. Therefore, must have Death Penalty. Phil rucker, nothing tough about openly pondering and looking so unsure of himself. I think what he projected was
truly alarming to his supporters and his detractors. In the hours after a terrorist attack, the most deadly Terror Attack in this city since 9 11, he attacked Chuck Schumer. He over pondered whether to send the suspect to gitmo or prosecute in our federal courts. Tweeted twice about the Death Penalty. A powerful leader simply does these things. They dont tweet about them or talk about them in pool sprays. Thats right. Hes trying to seize the political advantage here. He sees an issue that galvanizes his supporters and thats why you saw him politicizing the issue immediately yesterday morning with those tweets about Chuck Schumer and the democrats. Its a real contrast to his hand ling of the Las Vegas Shooting where he and the white house actually said it was too early after a tragedy to have any debate about policy or politics when it comes to the gun laws. But here he is wanting to rewrite our Immigration Laws and change our criminal Justice System. He sees an opportunity here to
galvanize the country to play off peoples fears about terrorism, to solidify the support behind him. Phil, you were on the beat of donald trump as a pressure cooker. I wonder if you read anything into the fact that he dialed up two reporters with the New York Times to simply assert that he was calm. Yeah, one of the things he told the New York Times was the story that my colleagues and i had on monday night was not the right depiction of his feelings after those indictments came down that he, in fact, was very calm and not angry at all. That does conflict with the reporting that we have which is that he stayed up in the residence for several hours into that morning, was late getting to the oval office because he was so busy watching all of this news and feeling frustrated about it. But nonetheless, he doesnt want there to be a narrative of him fearing mueller. He wants everybody to think that everything is good, that he is one white house official
used that word. Said the president is zen. So that person should go to spin doctor jail. Let me give you the last quick word here. I talk to people who were in contact with the president on sunday before the news was even known and he was anything but zen. What do you make of the elaborate spin effort over his State Of Mind . Its not going to work because theres nothing that kills your narrative that this is a hoax like a real indictment. And charging documents that actually lay out what i think is a road map to collusion. When you put everything in the timeline together, you put the facts that mueller presented in those documents together, it looks a lot like the campaign was willing and able and had the access to collude. Able is up in the air but willing for sure. All right. Phil rucker, thank you so much for starting us off today. When we come back, connecting the dots. Jeff sessions, low level george, and his plan for donald trump to meet with russians. A clearer picture coming into view. Also ahead, Paul Manafort is back in court today where his lawyer is trying to make the case that a man who has applied for ten passports isnt a flight risk. And will anyone apologize to the 400pound man in his basement that donald trump blamed for election hacking. New reporting today about the extent of russian meddling. I dont want to sound paranoid, but dya think our recent online sales success seems a little. Strange . Na. Ever since we switched to fedex ground business has been great. Theyre affordable and fast. Maybe too affordable and fast. What if. People arent buying these books online, but they are buying them to protect their secrets . . hi bill. If that is your real name. Its william actually. Hmph affordable, fast fedex ground. Senator Jeff Sessions, although a source close to sessions says the Attorney General does not recall nixing papadopoulos propos proposal. Papadopoulos has been cooperate with bob muellers investigators since at least july, according to documents unsealed this week and possibly even wearing a wire. Nbc news is reporting that, quote, Attorney GeneralJeff Sessions rejected a proposal by a Junior Campaign aide who offered to use his russian contacts to try to set up a meeting between donald trump and Vladimir Putin. The problem for sessions on june 13th of this year, he was adamant that he had no knowledge of any conversations by anyone connected to the Trump Campaign and russians. This was his testimony when asked about contacts with russians on behalf of the Trump Campaign. I have never met with or had any conversation with any russians or any foreign officials concerning any type of interference with any campaign or election in the united
states. Further, i have no knowledge of any such conversations by anyone connected to the Trump Campaign. I was your colleague in this body for 20 years, at least some of you. And the suggestion that i participated in any collusion, that i was aware of any collusion with the russian government to hurt this country, which i have served with honor for 35 years or to undermine the integrity of our democratic process is an appalling and detestable lie. Lets get right to ken dilanian who broke the story. A source close to Jeff Sessions is telling us that he did nix this papadopoulos idea of having a meeting between donald trump and Vladimir Putin at a March 31st Meeting of the
trump National Security team. And we see a picture there on the screen of sessions in the meeting. Papadopoulos is on his left. But the source is saying he has no specific recollection of doing so because papadopoulos was such a lowlevel guy. He didnt leave a big impression. This is obviously causing great waves, particularly among senate democrats. Initially Jeff Sessions said he never met with any russians and then sessions had to amend that testimony and say he met twice with the russian ambassador. Frank has sent sessions a stinging letter accusing him of misrepresenting his contacts with russians and asking them to come become to congress and clarify what exactly he remembers about this meeting, what he knew about papadopoulos interactions with russians. Im not a lawyer but is someones rank on a campaign a Legal Defense for not remembering telling them to do something when it comes to russia . I wouldnt think so. Its really mystifying because, you know, this is a pretty dramatic thing. You are proposing a meeting between the candidate and head of an adversary nation. And the story is Jeff Sessions nixed it and said were going to move on. But to me, the Real Question is who within the Trump Campaign knew that George Papadopoulos had been offered dirt on Hillary Clinton and thousands of emails. Did sam clovis, the Campaign Supervisor know who is not Going Forward as Agriculture Chief Scientist . Did Jeff Sessions, the head of this National Security committee know . Thats what presumably members of congress are going to ask him. Ken, stay with us for the rest of the conversation. Let me bring in mike lotter, mike pences press secretary, a post he left in september, just in time. What do you know or are hearing from your former colleagues about the Ripple Effect that ken dilanian described upon learning that papadopoulos plead guilty to lying to the fbi this summer
and has been cooperating with them ever since . I was in the white house last night meeting with let me guess. Everyone was really zen. I wouldnt describe it as zen. Thats not a word i would use. This didnt come up. Why would it come up if they think people might be wearing a wire. There are no concerns like that. This is a there are no concerns that anyone is wearing a wire . This is a 30yearold kid if you look at all the reporting from this. People who have been trying to bring up his own credentials, trying to build a portfolio for himself. Kept getting shot down. Attorney general, then senator sessions apparently shot this down and says according to the New York Times, i hope this is never discussed again. So they continue to go out there and do this. At the end of the day, the only collusion we have in the campaign with russians is the clintons. I just want to get your position clear in my mind. So your explanation is that he was too low level or that he was too incompetent . I dont understand your position . I wasnt in the meeting. Jeff sessions, who was neither incompetent nor low level. It got all the way to Jeff Sessions, this pitch, this idea that hed use his russian contacts to put donald trump in the room im not sure if thats the way it was phrased. I wasnt in that meeting. No one is denying Jeff Sessions nixed a meeting. What ive read in public reporting is that his story has varied between setting up a meeting to establish better contacts, discussions of dirt, discussions of all of these things. We dont know what was pitched in the meeting. Ive had contact with somebody who would like to set up a meeting with the with mr. Putin and mr. Trump Going Forward. I dont know it was immediately killed. I was not in that you dont know if it was no, what was reported by the New York Times was that Jeff Sessions said you just said he was low level. Would you agree that Jeff Sessions was pretty high level. Jeff sessions was high level. And george was pretty low level. So you dont know who it was bounced off before it got to Jeff Sessions, do you . Were talking about that meeting. You just asserted the first time it was bounced off it i dont know that. He could have pitched it to jared it was immediately shut down according to what the you dont know if it was the first time it was suggested neerths do you. We know bob mueller knows. We dont know what bob mueller knows. So far there has been no evidence of any kind of collusion between the Trump Campaign how do you know . Has there been any evidence . Bob mueller is why are you so eager to do you trust bob mueller. Im not going to make a judgment on bob mueller. Former fbi director. Former fbi director after 9 11. Yes or no. Do you trust bob mueller . I would trust the process to play out the way its meant to be played out. Why cant you say you trust a
former fbi director who worked for democrats and republicans who kept this country safe you cant say you trust bob mueller . You cant say that . I hope theyre paying you a lot of money. What is sustainable that a Trump Surrogate cant say they trust bob mueller. I think one of the this isnt the white houses current position. Sarah Huckabee Sanders took to the podium yesterday and said there are other folks putting bugs in the president s ear. If this goes forward it goes forward in a way the president doesnt like, he already is upset with sessions, upset reportedly with Jared Kushner for the way this has progressed and the fact it has progress at all. We know that from our reporting. If this goes further, you know, its possible that he will regret that terminating mueller. There are people that hes listening to who enable those impulses from the outside who say things like, i dont know if id listen to those lawyers if i were you. You hear what bannon is trying to do. When bannon talks to this
president. And it is it seems very much aimed at undermining his trust in the people that he has around him. The president has a lot of things going on in his mind. But i think mark can come and say whatever he wants and ill take him at his word. But when you talk about going back to these meetings that happen during the campaign, my reporting is that this was a campaign that was basically a cultive personality operation. Donald trump is in the white house now because of it. But a lot of these things, and Sarah Sanders admitted as much when she says they met one time. The Foreign Policy team rolled out when they says George Papadopoulos, the kid with model u. N. On his resume. Sarah sanders says they just did this whole Foreign Policy team for the instagram to make it look they put the picture. T