The dni and the rest of the National Security establishment . A question a lot of people are asking this hour. Were going to take you through the much balihooed memo release, what it means for the russia investigation and discuss potential resignations or firings of senior d. O. J. Or fbi leadership. Lets get right to it with our experts. Jeremy bash, former Chief Of Staff at both the cia and pentagon. Now an msnbc National Security analyst. Matt miller, former chief spokesman for the Justice Department in the Obama Administration, now an msnbc justice and security analyst. Chuck rosenberg, a former u. S. Attorney who has worked on the staffs of both Robert Mueller and james comey at the fbi and is now an msnbc contributor. And with us onset, nbcs ken delanian and republican strategist Steve Schmidt. Jeremy bash, let me start with you on this idea that carter
page, who we know was first surveilled in 2013, at least two to three years before he ended up in the trump orbit and years before the steele dossier ever existed, just talk about carter page being in the center of a big, big political distraction, a movement to smear the fbi which may have the effect of creating a smoke screen so he can do what he really wants to do, which is to get rid of the guy overseeing the Mueller Probe. I think it is important to call it, we all remember that the Mueller Investigation really had its origins in july of 2016 when after papadopoulos was basically approached by russian intelligence handlers, the investigation, the Counter Intelligence investigation of the Trump Campaign kicked off. So, the fact that a Fisa Application was made in october 2016 shows that that application was not the basis for the Mueller Investigation. I think its important also to note, nicolle, that this memo released today by nunes is totally incomplete. It cherry picks all kinds of information. It doesnt say what other information the fisa court relied on. So, Steve Schmidt, how stupid are they . Do any of them read what they just revealed im sorry if im getting this wrong. They just revealed the Trump Campaign hired an agent of a foreign power as their senior Foreign Policy advisor to the president s campaign. They sure did. Look, i dont think thats what happens when you rely on devin nunes as your strategist, i guess. When you saw the president earlier in the oval office, what he did essentially was toss up a serve like a volleyball out over the net, which will now be spun into all manner of Conspiracy Theories a ball or a bomb . By the right wing media that will spin off in a hundred different directions. All of this and i think its much less important to focus on whats in the memo than it is to focus on the intent of the memo. Right. The intent of the memo is to sow confusion and chaos around the material facts of the russia investigation, which is, did somebody or peoples on the Trump Campaign, maybe with the knowledge of the president , maybe without, well find out, collude with intelligence
carter page and tell all of us that he was known to have been under surveillance under these very high standards that jeremy and chuck have spoken to since 2013. So lets go through some of the substance of the memo, because i think they could have used a press person like you or me to help them. It doesnt look like it got fact checked. So the memo alleges this was written by the nunes staff in close contact, im told, with the trump white house. The memo alleges that a dossier compiled on trump by Christopher Steele was the key part of information to show the fisa court to gain approval for surveillance of carter page. Now, its my understanding that it was just one of many streams that a fisa warrant is not granted based on a single piece of evidence from anyone, and that lots of streams of evidence if youre dealing with informants, many of them have questions about credibility, but thats why the court takes all that into consideration. And this would have been a fraction of the information they looked at. Yeah, i think thats exactly right, nicolle. One of the things about this memo thats incredible is not only is it misleading because of what it leaves out, for example, other evidence that we know from
other reporting the Department Of Justice submitted to the fisa court. Even in the substance of the memo that it includes, in several cases it gets facts wrong or mischaracterizes them. For example, you know, it makes a claim about andy mccabe saying that without the steele dossier, this Fisa Application never would have been approved. Adam schiff is already out saying thats not what director mccabe said. I think its interesting the memo doesnt quote him. It describes what he said. If they actually if he actually said it you would have seen a direct quote from him. It mischaracterizes something that jim comey said saying that he described the dossier as salacious and unverified when in fact when he said that in congressional testimony, he was talking just about the most salacious piece of the dossier. Right. I think you know what im referring to. Right. All of the money, not the sex. Were talking about the sex. Yeah i dont know. Thats exactly right. It is a sloppy document, even in the part that it includes, let alone what it leaves out. But i think that does get you back to this point that Steve Schmidt was raising which is its not compelling in the real world. Its not factual and substantive in the real world. But that doesnt mean it wont achieve its purpose in the right wing conservative world. In Donald Trumps mind does this give him the political space to move on Rod Rosenstein, to move on the underlying investigation as he seems to want to do. All right. So let me give you another piece of this, ken dilanian. It also, the memo released today declassified by the president over the objections of the director of the fbi who had grave concerns, also alleges that information to the court did not reveal that the fusion gps generated dossier was financed by the dnc and the Clinton Campaign. Now, the truth is that the original Fusion Gps Contract was under big republican donor paul singer, and it was i think an intermediary, a conservative website, the free beacon. I understand Christopher Steele wasnt involved until the Fusion Gps Contract had been taken over by the Clinton Campaign. But even in what would seem like their strongest point, they dont really stick to the facts. And there is a dispute about it because what democrats seem to be suggesting is that it was disclosed, it was funded by political opponents of donald trump, just not named Hillary Clinton or the democrats. Under the rules they dont name people. That could be an example of where this is deeply misleading, because analysts have said as long as they said this is information thats coming from people who dont like donald trump, theyre covered there. But just stepping back, look, as a journalist i found this to be deeply disappointing because its essentially a bust. Because it does not speak to the central issue, which is the Mueller Investigation. It doesnt explain how carter page fits in at all to the Mueller Investigation. And also dont forget, republicans were suggesting this was essentially the fruits of the poisonous tree, right . If the steele dossier got the whole thing started, then the Mueller Investigation is invalid. But this memo disproves that. As jeremy said, it shows the investigations are months before and was related to the papadopoulos, that had nothing to do with the steele dossier. That is in there to the last paragraph and in a snarky way, tried to suggest pete strzok was in there and how that was improper. It goes on and on about carter page but doesnt explain how carter page is relevant to the overall investigation. Jeremy, what this seems to do, no matter what he did in the hotel room in russia, they have a list of names that i think donald trump has actually fired everybody on it except Rod Rosenstein. So just reaffirms their bias against the people that donald trump rails on. But to the 67 of americans who are either deep skeptics of his presidency who are wondering what hes up to, it is Proof Positive that he had someone who was known by Counter Intelligence agencies to be an agent of a foreign power on his campaign. He brought him in or he was planted in that campaign. And i remember the first time you posited that, i burst out laughing. I said, what are you talking
about . Youve now got manafort who was Doing Business with proputin oligarchs. Youve got carter page who since 2013 has been surveilled as part of our Counter Intelligence efforts to protect this country. And youve got a memo with basically a trump enemys list, and what makes them all enemies is they found out about it. Yeah, maybe ill state it in a little plainer way, nicolle. Four times a federal court found that Donald Trumps Foreign Policy advisor was a russian spy. And so if you just think about that, it shows you how irresponsible the Trump Campaign was even at vetting its own people. And i just want to hammer this point home. Revealing this memo today is dangerous. It undermines the work of the fbi. It telegraphs precisely to the Russian Federation, i guarantee you this memo will be translated in russian within a matter of minutes, telegraphs exactly to them how we undertake Fisa Applications, whats involved in them, who approves them, the dates of this one. This is very damaging to our
counterintelligence efforts. And, Chuck Rosenberg, thats how it was explained to me by a former top official in Intelligence Agencies in democratic and republican administrations. He said that revealing sources and methods is bad, that revealing and showing the machinations of one of our most effective tools is something far worse. That this really shows our hand. I want to get you to respond to that, but i want to ask you Something Else. On the dossier, it seems to me that the way trumps allies will use this is to make it about the dossier. But the truth about the dossier is that about a third of it has borne out. About a third of it is still being investigated. And about a third of it is, you know, the more salacious things that i think the fbi or anyone investigating or mueller, whoever is looking at it, would want to corroborate with multiple sources. But not one thing has been disproven. Uhhuh, thats right. And maybe i can give you a criminal context to this because if i was a federal prosecutor for a long time. Nicolle, if we could draw for our pool of informants only from nuns and librarians, that would be awesome. Thats not the way the world works. So who knows bad stuff in drug cases or gun cases and Bank Robberies . It tends to be other criminals. Informants come in all shapes and sizes. They often have motives or biases. Thats not unusual. In federal judges who review these affidavits know that. Now, if you really want us to assess the affidavit, then you can either give us all of the underlying materials and we can read it, or you can give us sort of a onesided memo that looks like it was written by an under achieving first year law student. And so this is not the way we should be trying to determine whether what was presented to a federal judge was adequate or
not. This just misses the mark. And as you point out, its quite dangerous. It harms our National Security mission. Matt miller, you wrote an oped. This is the most inappropriate action since the comey firing. At president trumps decision to release House Intel Committee devin nuness memo alleging wrongdoing at the Justice Department combined with his illadvised decision, represents the most unethical and potentially legal action hes taken since he fired fbi director james comey. And like the comey decision it may now feature prominently in the Obstruction Of Justice investigation dogging trumps white house. Michael schmidt of the New York Times made a similar point last night. We know that bob mueller is looking very closely at Donald Trumps conduct in office. Youd think that if the top Law Enforcement official warns you against doing something, that you might take that under consideration. No . Yeah, thats right. I mean, look, every time i should put it this way. Weve seen a pattern of donald trump having really inappropriate interactions with senior federal Law Enforcement officials, with the Attorney General, with the Deputy Attorney general, with the current fbi director, the former fbi director, the former fbi
deputy director. You can go down the list. And what matters is his motive when he has these interactions. And here with the release of this memo, we know what his motives are because hes been clear about it. Hes telegraphed publicly and he said to a number of aides privately that he wanted this memo released because he sees it as a pretext to move on Rod Rosenstein potentially to fire him. We dont know if hell do it or not. Again, thats clearly what he hopes to accomplish doing this. I think authorizing the public release of the memo, hes probably safe. It was served up to him in an official process from congress. But its his intervention with the Justice Department. Its him sending his Chief Of Staff to really berate the Attorney General for his involvement, to berate the Deputy Attorney general for opposing the release of this memo. You see again another inappropriate interaction that it wouldnt surprise me if bob mueller looks at. All right. No one is going anywhere. When we come back, doing putins bidding. Thats how one u. S. Senator describes the memo released to raising concerns about threats
to fire mueller. And postmemo National Security in the time of trump, when a grave warning from the nations top Law Enforcement official is overruled by trump political allies, where does that leave the country when faced with real threats . Next time, i want you on my bowling team. [ laughs ] rodney. Bowling. Classic. Can i help you . Its me. Jamie. Im not good with names. Celeste i trained you. We share a locker. Moose man yo. He gets two name your price tools. He gets two . I literally coined the phrase, we give you Coverage Options based on your budget. Thats me. Jamie yeah. Youre back from italy. [ both smooch ] ciao bella. Hes looking at me right now, isnt he . Yup. butch barks at man butch is like an old soul that just hates my guts. laughs vo you can never have too many faithful companions. Thats why i got a subaru crosstrek. Love is out there. Find it in a subaru crosstrek. For weeks its been no secret that the president wants to fire Rod Rosenstein and seize control of the investigation. The release of the nunes memo may have been a giant step toward that goal. Democratic leaders writing in a letter to the president today, quote, we are alarmed by reports you may intend to use this misleading document as a pretext to fire Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein in an effort to corruptly influence or impede special counsel bob muellers investigation. We write to inform you that we would consider such an unwarranted action as an attempt to obstruct justice in the russia investigation. Firing Rod Rosenstein, d. O. J. Leadership or bob mueller could result in a constitutional crisis the likes of which we have not seen since the saturday night massacre. Jeremy, matt, chuck, ken and steve are all here. Chuck, i want to start with you and ask you what would happen from a process and procedure standpoint. Does Rachel Grand Step if he
fired Rod Rosenstein, who would take over control of the Mueller Investigation and would that person have to be confirmed by the senate . He could make somebody else the president could make somebody else the acting Deputy Attorney general. Rachel brand is third in line so she would be a logical choice. The way you have to analyze this, though, its the same analysis we used about jim comeys firing. The president has authority to remove people who he thinks are under performing. But that obviously wasnt the reason he fired jim comey. He told lester holt he fired him because of the russia thing. So it looks to me like that firing was an act of obstruction. This firing could be, too. If he really truly believes Rod Rosenstein isnt doing his job, then he can remove him. But again, thats not why he would be doing it. He would be doing it, as you said, to take control of the russia investigation and thats dangerous. So, jeremy bash, there are so many people there are so many witnesses ive had so many
sources tell me that Donald Trumps obsession is in removing d. O. J. Leadership and taking control of the Mueller Investigation. Whether that means firing him or simply having someone to, i dont know what he thinks, strip him of his budget. There would be no shortage of witnesses to come into bob muellers room where all of his investigators are to hear from source after source after source about what donald trump thinks of the russia investigation. How is that not blatant intent to obstruct an investigation . Yeah, i think the facts are clear. The question is on the law, can a president basically squelch an investigation into himself if he doesnt like the job the investigators are doing. Thats i think the tricky legal question i think could be litigated when the president is asked to sit for an interview and this could get litigated up to the supreme court, nicolle. Let me put up for you, Steve Schmidt, all of the signatures that were disclosed in todays memo release to have signed off on Fisa Applications. So the nunes memo reveals jim
comey to have signed off on one of the carter page warrants. He was fired. Sally yates, former acting Attorney General, she was fired. Dana boente, am i saying that right, chuck . Boente. Andy mccabe was asked to step down. If you listen to donald trump jr. s musings on fox news, fired. Rods rosenstein, question mark. What does this paint for you in terms of a president for whom there are no guardrails . Typically the guardrails inside a west wing would be a white House Counsel, don mcgahn would have been involved. Im not sure from any press accounts what his role was in any of this. But in a normal white house, when comey and mueller and wray all threatened to resign over the Bedside Intervention with
then Attorney General ashcroft, the white House Counsel was involved, the National Security advisor was involved. Youve heard nothing of don mcgahn or h. R. Mcmaster getting involved. Where do any of them come down on the release of Classified Information over the objection of a sitting fbi director . Well, again, look, its a remarkable moment. Lets look, though lets step back to the fundamental question that we are talking around the edges of, which is this. That the man who walked into the House Chamber the other night walked in there as president of the United States. He is the head of the executive branch, one of three coequal branches of government in a nation of laws where nobody is above the law. He didnt walk into that chamber as an emperor or a king. Even the president in this country is accountable before the law. And so this investigation and his obvious attempts to derail it, to smear individuals who spent their entire life in service to the country in these Law Enforcement organizations, and to attack the concept of fairness in the american justice
system right. The way that he did today. Now, for those of us at a certain age, we remember the big nothing burger of geraldo and al capones safe. Its a big nothing. The difference is when geraldo opened the safe and there was nothing there, back in those days there wasnt a tv Network Dedicated to telling you that, in fact, there was great treasure in the empty safe. Yeah. And so now there is. And so enough has been transmitted on this that hes going to characterize it as a disgrace. Were not talking about whats in it because its really nothing. We just went through that for our viewers. I mean, you know, i dont think we missed much. Let me pick up on that with you, ken. Geraldo was on Sean Hannitys radio show yesterday. He meant it has a compliment. I understand the two men are friends. Gosh, sean, if you were in the media when nixon was president , he never would have been impeached. If he had you, he would have served out his whole term. This idea that with a media a wing of the media staterun media essentially functioning to sort of obscure and cover up and distort the reality, how does an fbi how does the fbi protect the fisa process moving forward from a president totally willing to declassify and hand over to fox news by the way, fox news got this before any other news organization. So there wasnt even a pretense of releasing the memo for the public good or for all citizens. Simply to the viewers of fox news. So what youre describing, youre going to have an Intelligence Community hunkered down now, worried about who he can trust with Classified Information on the hill, in the executive branch. But i think steve is absolutely right. Donald trump has succeeded here. House republicans, we can all call it a bust and analyze the heck out of it, the bottom line is 30, 40 of the population that wants to hear this, a Top Secret Document they want the
Mueller Investigation invalid, theyve got that. Donald trump can use it has a pretext to fire Rod Rosenstein or say he refuses to talk to Robert Mueller, he wont sit down because the investigation is biased. For him this is a great day. Matt miller, i saw you shaking your head. Yeah. Look, i think thats exactly right. For him this is a great day. It gets back to this question of whether its enough for him to justify, not from a substantive standpoint, but justify removing Rod Rosenstein or not. You asked who can replace him. Youre right, rachel brand is the natural person. I think she is someone who those of us who want to see the rule of law fairly enforced would have faith in. But he doesnt have to pick her. He doesnt have to pick someone from inside the Justice Department. Donald trump can reach across the government and pick any Senate Confirmed person and put him in the job of Deputy Attorney general. Scott pruitt, for example. That person within that job would have the authority not necessarily to fire bob mueller. That may be too obvious even for the president at this point. But he could curtail the investigation by refusing to approve new lines of inquiry, by refusing to approve indictments that mueller wants to bring. He could even step into the investigation and order bob mueller to stop pursuing the investigation with the president , something we know the president and his lawyers are very worried about. Jeremy bash, Something Else the president is worried about is his personal, his family finances. He said in an interview with the New York Times maggie haberman, i believe peter baker that that would be a red line. Can you imagine a scenario where he puts in someone to red line the Mueller Probe . Second question to you, would mueller be responsive to someone put in after someone like Rod Rosenstein was fired to draw parameters around the investigation . You know, the memo that sets up the special counsel says that bob mueller can investigate any matters that arise. And so its pretty broad. Bob mueller will follow the
facts wherever they go. All right. We have to sneak in one more break. My thanks to jeremy bash, matt miller, Chuck Rosenberg and ken dilanian. When we come back, will Donald Trumps members in congress pay any political price for release of classified Sensitive Information or another norm gone by the wayside in the time of trump . Well put that question to our panel. Well, then i have some good news. Chevy is the only brand to receive j. D. Power dependability awards for cars, trucks and suvs two years in a row. Woman wait laughing i definitely feel like im in a dependable vehicle right now. Woman 2 i want a chevy now. Woman 3 i know
lets bring in the rest of our panel. Robert trainer, former bush cheney senior advisor. Joan palmieri, former Clinton Campaign communications director. And Donny Deutsche is back. Donny . My leg is shaking. I know, go. Let it all out. Heres Whats Going On here. I want to talk about the memo. We have a dozen instances of clearly the russians colluding in this election with top trump official. Two have already been convicted. We have a guy, a president who clearly is owned by putin. We have an investigation going. Thats good news. We basically now have a Press Release thats been put out, thats been twisted and mangled that now well give this president permission to fire rosenstein who will now take over this investigation. Our democracy is under siege. People need to start taking to the streets. This is a dictator. This is not something to analyze any more. This is not oh, well, good day for trump. This is frightening stuff. If you are an american, if
youre somebody who is 80 years old and sitting at home and youve watched the greatness of this country, you should be terrified and if youre a 12yearold and the future is in front of you, this is terrifying. This is not time to analyze and pundit. People, we need a revolution at this point. And im not doing tv here and going what is he doing . This is Whats Going On. You know whats interesting . I talked to a person, former top intelligence official for this country under democratic and republican president s, who is just as mad as you are. I mean, you im frightened. And he said, you know, where is the dni . Where did the head of the cia come down on this . Where did the dni come down on this . Where did any of you stand on the release of Classified Information to be used to smear the fbi . Where is the Republican Leadership . You know, john mccain theyre gone. They are so far gone. Paul ryan left this investigation in the hands of devin nunes. And out of the closet trump stooge. This is not an issue of left versus right, this is not an issue of republican versus
democrat, this is right versus wrong. We have a coequal branch of government in the legislative branch that should speak up and say stop it, this is enough. But chris wray went to paul ryans office. The Washington Post said that chris wray and Rod Rosenstein trekked to the capital. They sat with paul ryan and they begged him. They begged him not to put Classified Information involving the Surveillance Courts into the hands of devin nunes. What did he say . No. Pound sand. Then they trekked over to the House Committee and said, just let us brief the members of the House Intel Committee before they take a vote that would put sensitive Classified Information in the hands of the public and our enemies, more importantly. What did they say . No, you cant make our voters smarter, were going to vote dumb. Thats a fantasy. And its sad. Its come to this. I mean, lets have that conversation. Its come to this, right . A year ago, last year he fired comey on his own without any sort of support from the
hill. And the hill let it go. And now they are actively working to coordinate this undermining of the democracy from the hill with the speaker of the house as well as chair chairman nunes. It is no longer a case of when is the Republican Leadership going to stand up. They are now in cahoots with them. This is donny is right, extraordinarily dangerous what they are on, what they are on pace to do. This investigation is trying to find out one simple thing. Did our number one geopolitical enemy have anything to do with our electoral process. I think thats an investigation that should happen. Right now the president , based on nothing, based on something he could have written himself is going to go out and go, i dont think we should have that investigation. We are under siege. We dont know that he didnt. Steve . Stepping back from all of this, whats happening is that the Russian Federation is engaged in Global Information war trying to subvert faith in democracies all across the democratic west. Right. And theyre specifically targeting the worlds most important democracy, the United States. Vladimir putin understood something about us, how easily we could be turned at each others throats. Understood the fragility of our system, how corrupted some of these washington institutions are. And so what we see playing out is a Battle Field Of Misinformation on the social media sites. On fox news. Across all of you remind me, the release of the memo was i was sent a report that i think twothirds of the Social Media Trafficking was done by russian bots, the release the memo was furthered, was pushed by russian so the job of the congress is to understand that an attack by the russians on the Clinton Campaign is, in fact, an attack on the United States of america and our elections process. The job of the congress to be looking out, whats going to happen in 2018 . Whats going to happen in 2020 . How do we maintain the integrity
of the u. S. Elections process when its under this type of assault . How do we strengthen our institutions, not weaken them but we dont, right . Right. And the total corruption, the corruption by devin nunes of the bipartisan process around the intelligence committees function is startling. And its unprecedented. What about paul ryan . Paul ryan as weve seen all year clearly doesnt understand institutionally as speaker of the house that hes charged, in part, with protecting the prerogatives of his coequal branch of government. I dont believe that. Hes too smart. And he doesnt clearly understand it or or what . Or hes a willful accomplice to the degradation of all of these institutions. Bring owe bingo. Or scared to death of the trump base and that he and his colleagues may be primaried and lose the house in november. Change, maybe this table is in trouble we keep talking like this. Im not being dramatic. This is whats happening, kids. I mean, and this guy is winning. This whacky, orange poofyhaired guy is winning this game and we cannot depend on the congress any more. And if rosenstein is fired, there needs to be people in the streets because that is its getting in scary territory, kids. Last word. I think you will see that. Whats going to have to happen is democrats are going to have to take over the house because the republicans are not going to do it. I thought once the tax cut bill was done maybe paul ryan would be willing to throw trump under the bus. But they just continued to collude with him. They passed on this. Everybodys side is chosen. Its on the super bowl on sunday. You have patriots and eagles on the field. In this election in november, you have team trump and you have everybody else. And one trump to break, an ally said to me that hes out of control. The guardrails have all failed. And only losing control of congress will bring him back in control. It will be the Campaign Equivalent of losing wisconsin. That will be the next time anyone can talk any sense into him. Scary thought. When we come back, Donald Trumps Love Hate Relationship with the fbi. For 100 years, heritage and innovation have made gillette the 1 shave in america. Now get gillette quality at lower prices every day. Brought to you by 1200 workers in boston were proud of giving you our best. Gillette. The best a man can get. Were back with some breaking news. The New York Times is the first to report some of the contents of what would have been in the minority memo, the minority members of the House Intel Committee had also created a memo trying to explain some of this. Theres the headline. House republicans released their secret memo accusing russia investigators of bias. That was the only one voted to be released. The democrats led by adam schiff had also created a memo trying to put the actual intelligence into a little more context. Let me read you a little bit from that piece. Mccabe, who i believe was the acting fbi director at the time, or the deputy fbi director, told the committee that the decision to seek a fisa warrant was also prompted by russian attempts to target mr. Papadopoulos and a trip mr. Page took to moscow in july 2016 and the russian hacking of democratic emails that appeared to be aimed at harming the president ial campaign of Hillary Clinton. Two people familiar from the democratic memo said. So the democrats were trying to paint a much fuller picture, which if you talk to anyone who has ever submitted a Fisa Application, will tell you that to get one, to prevail in a fisa court which is ruled by federal judges who rotate in and out, democratic and republican appointees, this makes a lot more sense. Yeah, this makes lets get to a fuller sentence. Gives a full context. And there are two fundamental points that were made. One is the fbi investigation of russias involvement in the campaign started in july, well ahead of this fisa warrant. So, not that any of this is legitimate, but even to argue about the fisa warrant involving carter page being relevant to the overall investigation, is false. And then the second piece is that they had a russian agent as part of the campaign, and somebody, you know, Paul Manafort has a lot of ties to russia, somebody brought him into the campaign. And i dont think thats a question of bad vetting. I think that was a deliberate move. And i think this is why you always saw the trump Apparatus Throwing Paul Manafort under the bus right way. The involvement of russia is very deep personal to a person. A lot of people have said, steve said that this is working. Heres why i dont think the memo works. Donald trump were happy with 33 of the country loving him, hed stop raging, hed be happy. He won, hes president. 33 of the country literally would stay with him if he, as he once said, shot someone on 5th avenue. Hes not happy with that 33 and i think the other 67 of the country is going to see that since 2013, carter page who was Donald Trumps National Security one of his advisors, was thought to be an agent of the russians. He was hired two years after he was first thought to be an agent of the russians. We know we learned after the election the Obama Administration had opened up a
counterintelligence investigation into russian meddling in the election months before these reauthorized Fisa Applications. Certainly before the one that came into question in the nunes memo. Who has his ear and who is saying, this is not the right thing to do and heres the reasons why. Theres no one in the white house who has the gravitas and or the experience to push back with this president in a rational way. But the 67 dont mean anything. They dont have weight. Right now, that 33 is what protects him. It keeps the republicans in Congress Afraid to go after him
because they will get primary. He can go forward and try to derail this investigation. And thats what its about. Hes not worried about 18. Hes doing what he can to safeguard. As long as the 33 are so ardently behind him, the republicans in congress will not go against him, thus, he can do what he needs to do. Let me bring into the conversation eric swallow, a member of the House Intel Committee. Were getting some information from a new report in the New York Times about what the democrats of the committee wanted to put out, which is clearly more context than what was in the republican side. Take us inside the decision not to release the fuller picture. What was the motive for not doing so . Well, the motive was clearly to protect the president on the republicans side. Our memo was a tenpage memo that rebutted, put into context and provided the true timeline and shed new and unseen evidence
in this investigation that actually bolsters the fbis celebrity and i think elevates the seriousness of the russian investigation. Paul ryan is claiming he will allow our memo to come forward. I hope that happens monday, where we have asked the republicans for a vote on this. If paul ryan is going to allow your memo to come out on monday, is there anything else you can share with us . The New York Times is reporting that your memo includes this fact that mccabe told the committee that the decision to seek a fisa warrant was also attempts to target papadopoul papadopoulos, a trip that page took to moscow in 2016 and the russian hacking of democratic emails. A lot more went into the Fisa Application than the dossier, which is the trump bases favorite shiny object to distract from everything, even though the dossier has not been disproved or discredited. The characterization of andy mccabes testimony is its a mischaracterization as well as what went into the fisa
application. As you pointed out, carter page was a suspected Russian Foreign agent for three years, leading up to this dossier. The russians were interfering in her election. George papadopoulos has pled guilty to contacts he had, being on the same Foreign Policy team as carter page, around the same time that carter page was traveling to moscow. Theres a multiplicity of factors without going into what was in the fees is a application, that a reasonable person would conclude, would give anyone reason to want to know what carter page was up to. Do you believe the one name that is in the nunes memo, that its possible that donald trump could seize on is rod rose steins name. He looks to appear to approve one of the fisa authorizations. Does that mean, does that prove there was a fruitful or troubling stream of information to continue to reauthorize surveillance of page . And, two, what would the
fallout be if donald trump used the presence of his name in this nunes memo, that the president called disgraceful, said people should be ashamed. What if he uses it to fire rosenstein . As to rosensteins involvement and others, that shows the seriousness they put into this investigation. It was never leaked. Why did this leak at a pivotalal time during the campaign . As to rosensteins role, he is muellers pass. He sets the parameters and approves the expenditures. If you get rid of rosenstein, you can control what mueller does or does not do. We must do all we can next week, knowing what the intent is from the president and the republicans to protect mueller and protect rosenstein so this investigation can reach a conclusion. I dont know if you can see this. Im going to put up on our screen for our viewers a list of all the people who have signed off on the Fisa Applications or
reauthorizations for carter page. James comey, fired. Sally yates, fired. Da dana boente, asked to accept down. Andy mccabe, asked to step down. And Rod Rosenstein. Can you tell me about the names of list that was acted upon. Hes fired everybody who is investigating a man on his campaign, who was known to counterintelligence officials, a known russian agent. Its hairraising to hear you tick off the names and think about where those people are. Thats why we must protect him. Also, nicolle, the d. O. J. And the fbi have to do something theyre not comfortable doing. Thats speaking up. They like to keep their heads down and do the work and stay out of politics. Now is not a time to do that. I was so glad to see that Christopher Wray spoke up to talk about how destructive this would be. Others need to do the same. Were going to need bipartisan
leadership in congress or were risking these individuals to protect the president. What will democrats do . Do you have a plan for the moment you see it flash across your phone that trump has fired Rod Rosenstein . What will you do . I believe thats Obstruction Of Justice. Thats grounds for being referred to the House Judiciary Committee for impeachment proceedings. Have you had any conversatioconversation s you dont have name names, but do you have a glimmer of hope that a single republican in the house or senate feels the same way you do . Yes. Ive talked to individuals, republicans in both chambers who have expressed concern that if that happened, they would feel compelled to move. Thank you so much for spending some time with us. Were always grateful to have you. Especially today. Of course. My pleasure. Does that make you feel any better . Congressman has a plan. Going forward, the democrats have to stop talking about fisa memos and be proactive to
understand what the intent is, and what are they going to do . Start to line up whatever they need to do, thats the game now. Its no longer the problem is democrats dont have a lot of power in the house. The speaker and the chairman of the Judiciary Committee has all of the power in this context. The question becomes what does speaker ryan do . What does the majority of the House Of Representatives do . They control the paper, as Mitch Mcconnell would say, to get things to the floor. What does he do . Based on everything youve seen . I think paul ryan is going to step up to the plate. Oh. Hold on. They have lead editorials today about the disgrace that is paul ryan, putting this power in the hands of devon nunes. I think hes going to put the country first. Theres a fundamental question to be on the ballot in 2018. That is, do we want to be a Banana Republic . Were heading down that road. When you abandon fidelity to the
rule of law. Or do we want to be a Constitutional Republic like weve been for the last 240 years . And if the answer to the question is the ladder, we dont want to be a Banana Republic, this is going to have to be sorted out in the midterm elections where i suspect it will be a massive repudiation by the American People to deliver on those. Im with you on today and what happens. Let me read you what Christopher Wray sent to his staff. The American People read the papers and they hear talk on cable tv and social media. Keeping our communities safe making decisions will matter more. Talk is cheap. The work you do will endure. We speak through our work, one case at a time. One intelligence product at a time. One decision. We do that work, we say laserfocused on doing great work even when its not easy because it stands for and in what this institution means to people. Were going to keep doing that
work because we know who and what we are. And because we know people come first. I asked you to keep doing the great work and being the great people you are. And i know im determined to defend your integrity and professionalism every day. Thank you for standing strong together. Keep your faith in this institution, chris wray. Theyre worried that people are not going to abide by the fbi now when it comes to criminal matters. Theyre worried about the fbis ability to fight crime. It was posited to me, that the next waco is on trump. Thats what theyre saying, to send a signal to the rest of the country, you can still trust the fbi to fight crime. Last words to you . The fbi are the people that dedicate their lives to protecting us. They give their lives. The other guy is a reality real estate star. As you said, the reality real estate star, he won that round
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