The New York Times reports this afternoon, was approved by Trump AppointeeRod Rosenstein. Quote, in addition to mr. Rosenstein, all of the top Law Enforcement officials involved in the raid are republicans. The times also offering more details this afternoon about what the fbi was looking for in that raid. Quote, the search arent carried out by The Public Corruption Unit of the manhattan federal Attorneys Office seeks information about Karen Mcdougal an ex Playboy Model. She was paid 150,000 by American Media inc. , the enquirers parent company, whose Chief Executive is a friend of mr. Trumps. Our friend joyce vance described the raid as a, quote, bomb, on trumps front porch. Been in agreement that if the president wanted to Fire Bob Mueller, if he wanted to change course here, then he had to essentially get somebody to do it for him. That somebody would have had to have been Rod Rosenstein, the Deputy Attorney general and for all intents and purposes, the Acting Attorney General in the mueller case. So if its the president s view that he himself can do that, thats new. Now, i Dont Know Whether thats just their sort of legal opinion or whether thats because theyre teeing up to do something or what. Yeah, thats new information. Ashley parker, youve had some extraordinary reporting in the last 24 hours about the atmospherics in the west wing. You talked to many more people than i do. But for my part, i heard from the sorts of people that always tell me to calm down, nicole, i heard that people are rattled, that people are scared. Firing, if there were to be that, as of now at least, peoples understanding and sense seems to be the person who the president is most furious at right now is Rod Rosenstein, followed by jeff sessions, whos sort of perpetually furious at, and then mueller. Even though the president seems to believe he has the authority to fire mueller, it still seems as of this afternoon, Rod Rosenstein was most squarely in his crosshairs. Jeremy bash, is it your understanding that the president , as his spokesperson articulated from the white house podium today, they now believe they have the power, the authority, to fire Special Counsel bob mueller, who is investigating the president for potential collusion with american adversary russia for potential Obstruction Of Justice. They now believe they have the power and authority to fire him. Your thoughts . Theres a federal regulation, nicole, thats 28 cfr 600. 4. President actually appoint somebody else to be the Attorney General like the Vice President . Could he appoint himself, the president , to be the Acting Attorney General . And in an acting capacity, could the president then Fire Bob Mueller . Weve got a federal regulation that dictates how this could work and only how it could work. In the height of irony if the president actually directly Fire Department the Special Counsel, it would become exhibit a in the Obstruction Of Justice case. Thats how strongly this is a or z, right . I believe it would go straight to the top. You cant get more obstructive than to fire the guy thats investigating you. We had the White House Press secretary today use the podium in that Briefing Room that people have stood behind that podium and addressed the country at times of war, at times where the countrys been under attack. Today she used that podium to basically say we believe we have the authority to fire the man investigating the president. Where are we . I think were in chaos. The Statement Today reflects that. Nobodys looked up cfr. We know the federal regulation. The bigger question for me as someone that spent 25 years dedicated to Law Enforcement is, does anybody care at the white house . Does anybody care about the rule of raw . A law . The answer increasingly appears to be no. The president yesterday said the raid on cohen was an attack on everything the country stands for. Your colleagues have reported in the past that at least one staffer stood in the way the last time or one of the last times that the president wanted to Fire Bob Mueller, writing, President Trump ordered the firing last june of robert mueller, the Special Counsel overseeing the russia investigation. He ultimately backed down after white House Counsel threatened to resign rather than carry out the president s directives. What are you hearing about don
may overcome its a big problem. Ive told him that. You cant fire the Special Counsel. You just cant. Ashley parker, the president doesnt seem to be of the same mind, at least if you take his Press Secretary for her word with his personal friend and onetime very Senior Campaign advisor chris christie. Put it this way, he hasnt done it yet. But people i talked to this morning said hes definitely building the case to potentially do it if he wants to, if hes not able to be talked out of it but aides and advisors. If you looked at his comments yesterday, someone said, hes sort of floating a trial balloon, which is what he does for a lot of his more controversial statements or moves or decisions. He sort of tests it out, says, a lot of people are saying i should Fire Bob Mueller and sort of waits for the reaction. Right now were kind of in this Holding Period where the president is testing the waters, trying t ting to figure out how can go without ramifications. If you put the art of the deal window over there, is the middle Ground FiringRod Rosenstein . Also referring evidence from bob muellers probe to the u. S. Attorney, it seems to me like bob mueller did a lot to preserve the integrity and the scope of his investigation by referring in evidence about Michael Cohen to the us Attorneys Office and saying you go ahead and follow up, this is outside my scope. Would that be something that you
could foresee this president doing instead . I dont know. If he fires Rod Rosenstein he gets maybe only 75 of the blowback that he would get if he fired bob mueller. No legal heat is going to come off the president. I think what the president may think about and come around to is massive pardons, pardons across the board for Michael Cohen, for mike flynn, for paul manafort, even for himself, certainly his sons and his soninlaw. That power is very hard to take away from the president. Frank . I think theres a way to get rid of Mueller Without Firing mueller. I think it is rosenstein. And i think you could replace rosenstein with your own person whos going to do exactly what you directed them to do. He can hand pick that person if he chooses to do so. I still say that would be obstruction. Bring this back to the obstruction case. James comey is about to go out on a book tour, sort of a high level peek at jim comey and questions about his firing. In response to the american response to the atrocities in syria, he went back to Rod Rosensteins role and articulating a rationale for firing jim comey. B where are we right now in terms of the president s public facing actions and how many of them point to an Obstruction Of Justice case that bob mueller could bring . I think firing Rod Rosenstein would be obstructy. Im not sure it would be Obstruction Of Justice under the classical definition. The president cleared the room in the oval thauoffice that day
said i want you to see your way through to clearing mike flynn. He did things that are totally outside of the president s powers. Merely removing someone from office, you could argue the president could do it. But if somebody tried to bring charges against the president or it was a basis for impeachment, the president could try to fight and say, hey, this is within my powers as president to do. Matt, you wrote about what the raid in Michael Cohens office was all about. You developed some new information overnight that we didnt have at this hour yesterday. They were looking for information about Karen Mcdougal, an ex Playboy Model who claims to have had a yearlong relationship with the president. Im reminded of the passage in
fire and fury about steve bannon saying they paid out hundreds of women. This is whats believed to be true about the president s prepolitical life. How much of your reporting bears that out today . Absolutely. What we knew yesterday was that it was kind of a wideranging Search Warrant that included information about Stormy Daniels and the payment to Stormy Daniels. We now know that its this broad Search Warrant thats looking at payments, plural. So that include payments that were also made to, as you mentioned the playboy playmate mcdougal. And the question, of course, is what role did the National Enquirer this story has it all. What role did the National Enquirer play in facilitating a
payment, and does that amount to hush money . And, of course, all of this money going to these women were those improper Campaign Finance donations . And who had in the bingo game, who had Campaign Finance donations to trump via women . So i didnt have that last night. You know, this thing is a weird story and it has a lot of strands to it. Were just trying to pull on them. Ashley, theyre all a little ske skeevy. I used that word last night. Let me press you on what is perhaps the less bondlike part of this story and the real possibility that Michael Cohen was doing a whole bunch of shady
stuff that veered into Criminal Activity and the fact that he now has everything a longtime trump confidant said these are not going to be big sophisticated crimes uncovered. Theyre going to be gross Little Things like intimidating City Council Members where he wanted to build a building. Just talk about all the exposure that the president has personally when Michael Cohens records and computers and phones are turned upside down and shared with Law Enforcement. Sure. I think federal prosecutors will learn this very quickly, but they could just look to Michael Cohens public comments. He was the president east los e fixer, long time enforcer and proudly so. He sort of bragged about making the sordid underside of, you know, the president s new york
real estate dealings and personal life go away. He was someone who basically would sort of Handle Problems like an olivia pope scandal but more of the underworld. Less well dressed. Yes. Thats what he would do if there was any problem. He didnt sort of limit himself to things that were traditionally in the realm of the president s business. It could be an article in the media that the president would not like, something involving the president s kids or the president s family. And he would i can at least speak to how he would treat reporters. He would get angry, he could be threatening. They dont quite know what they will uncover but this is what cohen himself has said hes done. Thank you for all your incredible reporting in the last
24 hours. When we come back, Bob Mueller Under Fire today with the white house claiming the president has the authority to fire him. Great, another dead end. Sarge, i just got a tip thatll crack this case wide open turns out the prints at the crime scene awwwww. Did Mcgruffy Wuffy get a tippy wippy . Im serious we gotta move fast before whos a good boy . Is him a good boy . Erg. Im just gonna go. Oh, You Wanna Go Outside . You Gotta Go Tinky poopoo . I already went, ok . In the bathroom as long as people talk babytalk to dogs, you can count on geico saving folks money. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. There is nothing civil about what this Special Counsel is doing. This is now a man that has to be brought under control, it would seem to me. Frankly, i cant imagine, because each of us has to come to terms with our own heart and conscience. I would fire the s. O. B. In three seconds. I know you would. That was lou dobbs describing bob mueller as an s. O. B. Let that sink in. Let me read something you tweeted last night that caught my attention. You tweeted calling around the president s circle, his allies are taken aback, rattled, worried the president has a small legal team that lacks a heavy hitter, Worried Mueller is
making big moves. Is it your sense the interview will still happen . The president met with several of his lawyers. Hes being advised dont fire Rod Rosenstein, dont Fire Bob Mueller. His lawyers know hes itching to talk to the legal team but they know that could be a perilous situation to say the least. Im hearing about his inability to rein his own emotions. The spectacle when he sat down with his war cabinet, one ally said he blew his top like a loon before we went in there. So i guess what we saw on
television was the president having calmed himself down. Hes always been a combative person. He used to tell me years ago during interviews he loves to fight. That was kind of a line he used to have. This element of his personally has always been there. More alarming to his associates and officials inside of the white house is his distress about the Justice Department and his tweets today about witch hunt and Attorney Client privilege is dead, he asserts. That kind of thing, they really worry, could prod a constitutional crisis. Him being angry, him watching television, not news in this white house. This is Lindsey Graham talking about what would happen if he fired bob mueller. Why are you to confident the president wouldnt Fire Bob Mueller . Im confident that would be the beginning of the end of his presidency. I havent seen any indication that the proper process wasnt followed. I know its painful, but i think the president is too smart to
fire mr. Mueller. If he did, it wouldnt end the investigation. First of all, he cant do that. Two republican senators, two allies of the president , calling him too smart to do something stupid. Isnt that sometimes the case on capitol hill . That is the case on capitol hill at times. Iet its a delicate moment. I just got off the phone with former speaker Newt Gingrich and former mayor giuliani, getting their take. Theyre warning trump dont fire mueller. It could split the party apart. Even these men are not going out on a limb and saying they know exactly what President Trump will do. That seems to be the difference in this moment, that the kind of people you just named are the kinds of people that call us thysterical when w say, oh my god, hes going to
create a constitutional crisis. These people are saying they dont know what hes going to do. Some people close to the president say he believes, his people, the gop base will stick with him each if Republican Leaders do not. So there are these two kind of camps in his ear as he thinks through hethese decisions. Do you have any reporting on where don mcgahn comes down on this . Its been reported that one of the previous time that is the president Wanted Mueller fired, he sent don mcgahn to do it and don said he would resign before he would carry out that order. Any sense of where don mcgahns head is . We also know when President Trump has talked to don mcgahn and other current and former staffers, that theyve had to call back in and report those interactions to