Energized Democratic Party and a few republicans in this country who are still in possession of their spines and their souls. The Trump Administration today doubling down on its policy of forcibly separating children from their parents at the border. Former First Lady Laura Bush in an extraordinarily rare rebuke of a policy and a sitting president , accurately describes the trump policy as, quote, warehousing children in converted box stores and writes, quote, i live in a border state. I appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries, but this zero tolerance policy is cruel. It is immoral and it breaks my heart. She adds, these images are eerily reminiscent of the japanese internment camps in world war ii, now one of the most shameful episodes in u. S. History. Hayden goes further. Comparing the scenes at the boarder to nazi camps. This is birkenau, then germany, now poland. No one can believe civilized behavior is guaranteed. In response the Trump Administration deflecting blame, but owning the hardline policy. Immigration is the fault and all of the problems that were having, because we cannot get them to sign legislation. We cannot get them even to the negotiating table. And i say its very strongly the democrats fault. You see about child separation, you see whats going on there. But just remember, a country without borders is not a country at all. We need borders. We need security. We need safety. They could be murderers and thieves and so much else. So, we want a safe country and it starts with the borders. And thats the way it is. Or they could be infants torn from their mothers arms. Well hear how the press secretary answers questions on this any moment. But first to get us started nbcs Jacob Soboroff is outside the Border PatrolCentral Processing Center in texas where hes been doing remarkable reporting on this story from the beginning. White house reporter from the Washington PostAshley Parker joins us and here at the table msnbc political analyst michael steel, former chairman of the rnc, eli stokols, White House Reporter for the washington times. We started with laura bush, let me start with you, michael steele. As a sitting first lady, laura bush rarely engaged in policy or politics. And at the depths of george w. Bushs least popular hours as president , her public approval remained i think in the high 90s. So she has influence and she uses her voice very rarely. What did you think when you saw her comment . I thought it was a very powerful rebuke and i thought it was a profound moment in terms of National Republican voice that, given all the folks who have titles and positions in washington and around the country, hers as a former first lady stood out the loudest and strongest and quite honestly the brave est to push back what is a reprehensible policy. And it spoke in a way that reminded us of how strong she was as a first lady, going back to those dark days you were talking about in the bush term when the numbers werent there. But also why she had so much respect because she would oftentimes in critical moments bring that mother, that sense of woman, a parent, and someone who has a soul to a particular situation as she did with her comments today. Ashley parker, i think the other way to describe it is she spoke to americas humanity. And i remember after 9 11 she was the first figure who went out. She went on television the next morning and talked to parents about how to talk to their children about not being afraid. Hers was the first voice that we presented to the country the morning after 9 11. I wonder if there is a Single Person youve come in contact with in the white house who has any discomfort with whats happening at the border. Yes, they do, or some of them do. And if you sort of watch everyone in this white house, even their Public Comments quite carefully, you see they are trying to not break with the president who has a very tough on immigration line, but also trying to reflect their own kind of personal view because, as laura bush articulated so well, its not just an issue of politics or policy, but one of moral conscience. And so you do have some people going out there, even publicly and kind of saying, you know, you even saw the first lady, for instance, saying that families should not be separated from their children. Parents should not be separated from their children. You saw kellyanne conway, counselor to the president , trying to hedge a little bit and saying that, you know, no one really thinks this is a good idea. Of course thats not purely true. There are some people in the administration who also conversely but privately say this is a good idea. This is the rule of law. This is working as a deterrent. So, it is mixed, but this is an incredibly difficult issue for them on a level of, again, politics, policy and humanity. And its something they are all grappling with how to handle it. Jacob soboroff, youve moved from the facility to the border. Tell us the story of the human toll. Obviously the most important part of this story. Look, what i saw yesterday, nicolle, and thats what stuck with me, is the inside of this Processing Center at the mcallen Border Patrol station. This is the epicenter of where this is all going down. The conversation thats happening back in washington so often is disconnected from the reality and the facts on the ground. And the ground in this instance is mcallen, texas. This is the place with the most Border Patrol apprehensions. It happens there at the bridge behind me almost every single day. By the virtue of the traffic that comes through here, that means the most child separations are now happening here. And were looking at some of those pictures on the screen of the blankets and cage fences. The conversation that there are no cages, there are cages. I saw them with my own eyes. They look like dog kennels. There is no other way to describe them. There are children alone in them and increasing number of children alone in them as a result of the Trump Administration policy to separate children from their parents. Its not only putting the children in h. H. S. Facilities alone, its putting stress on staff at the centers. Thats what Border Patrol agents are telling me. There were four social care workers in one center where were looking at the cages on the screen. Four social care workers left alone with children without their parents. It is a building crisis in slow motion real time. Jacob, can you debunk a few things swirming around on social media and other places . People are asking where are the girls and where are the youngest children. We cant tell you for sure w because of department of health and Human Services which administers the shelters let us into two. One in el cajon, california, and one in brownsville one hour away from here where i was late last week. The one in brownsville was only boys between the ages of 10 years old and 17 years old. The one in el cajon was also young boys for the most part. At least thats what nbc news saw when we went in there. So, health and Human Services, which by all accounts offers pretty good service to these children and pretty respectable facilities, just hasnt been as transparent as we would like them to be. Granted they are dealing with an influx of people, 11,000 kids plus are in their care right now and that number is only going up. But the world wants to know where are the toddlers that this program is separating . Where are the young girls that this program is separating . We have not seen them ive seen the boys with my own eyes but i havent seen the girls and i havent seen the toddlers and nobody has let me get in to see that yet. Something else ive seen in the coverages is they are not permitted to touch these children. Is that true . It is true. This is all very complicated because these kids are effectively incarcerated and the rules, even if theyre in a shelter by name, are bound by, you know, certain strict policies. And one of them is designed to protect children from Sexual Assault when theyre incarcerated. And so that policy was never designed to be administered in a scenario where children are separated from their parents as a matter of systematic policy of president ial administration. When you have little kids ripped away from their parents and their care givers cant give them a hug or pick them up or even change their diaper if thats something they need, because of a policy designed for something completely different, you get into this situation like the one were in right now which again, by all accounts, including medical professionals, it will create extreme trauma that lasts for a lifetime in these things. It was a sickening thing for me as a father of a 2 1 2 year old to see these kids and know some may sit there 24 hours before theyre picked up and their parents are gone to go to health and Human Services. Jacob, stay up with us and jump in if we get if we stray from any of the facts. I think we should stay on the facts. Theyre appalling enough and we hope Sarah Huckabee sanders will have answers. We appreciate your Fact Checking that. Let me read a little more of laura bushs piece. America prides itself being a moral nation, sending humanitarian to places with disasters or famine or war. We pride ourselves people should be seen for the content of their character not the comer of their skin. We pride ourselves on acceptance. If we are that country it is our obligation to reunite these detained dhil children with their parents and stop separating them in the first place. That is the opposite of what is happening. What jacob described is the incarceration of children and theyre diapers arent getting changed because theyre being treated lielk criminals they cant touch. They talk about this in clinical terms, a matter of law and order, were enforcing the law, the laws have been on the books a long time. They dont want to he cfocus on children. There is something to notice. This is not a president obviously who has been moved or really seemed to care about carrying the mantle of moral leadership that has defined this presidency up numerator the 45th president. It hasnt been moved by claims, were america, we need to lead and set an example for the rest of the world. But he is a president who maybe more than any of his predecessors is a media anything, a television president. This presidency has been compared to a Television Show and if anything is capable of moving them to relent, you already see the president changing his story first it was the democrats fault, he also said today were doing this because we dont want the influx of migrants weve seen in europe. Hes starting to change his story. And if anything will i think move this president and this administration, or perhaps republicans in congress to come up with a solution, is the fact all of this is now being broadcast wall to wall on television. People are seeing the images. Its harder to ignore the fact that were talking about really young kids here. And i think, you know, even some of the statements that were sent out today, ben sass, republican senator from nebraska. He included that still image of that little girl next to the car in tears. So did john kasich in his statement. Republicans who are opposed to this policy appreciate the power of images to change the narrative to effect change and this president , for all the things we say and know about him, he definitely is susceptible to what he knows is the prevalent media narrative on television and reactive to that oftentimes. But, doug, hes not reactive to the facts and the fact is this is not the law. This was a policy announced by Jeff Sessions. Right. A few weeks ago to start separating children. This is not the law. No. The laws go ahead, jacob. Yeah, nicolle. Not only that, but the basis for this policy, which is denying as even a policy, hes just not correct. He tweeted out today, we dont want the violence spilling over into the United States. Im paraphrased. We dont want the violence happening south of the border spilling over into the United States and terrorizing us like it is on the south side of the border. There is no doubt mexico is extremely violent, the most violent here ever. If he took the time to read the reports from his own Drug Enforcement agency, the dea, he would know theyve said year after year, spill over violence is not a considerable problem that happens in the United States. So, to use that as justification for incarcerating little children, separating them from their parents, is just simply not based in fact. Its something that he made up and he put on his twitter account today. I think part of that is his effort to try to desensitize the public, in particular his supporters to these images that we are seeing more and more so on tv. And thats you know, he does a very good job when he needs to, he does it against the media when the media is coming after him. He makes them into fake news. He goes after the Mueller Investigation. You know, all of these people who could be a threat to donald trump, he tries to demonize. Thats why he talks about these kids in this way. Its almost like in an inhumane way, theyre animals. Hes making it so the public cant distinguish between the children and the ms13 gang. There being blood stained killing fields on long island. His voters are skeptical about the russia investigation. Theyre skeptical about the media, but they are not stupid and they still have eyes and they still have families and they still have kids. This feels to me like the kind of story that might make them choose between what is apparent to their own eyes and whats coming out of the president s twitter feed. I think thats a great point. Well have to see, but in talking, for instance, one lens to view this through is in talking to democrats before we saw this crisis. Democrats would say that immigration was, for instance, a tricky issue for them, especially in some of these house districts. There were constituents who did like what the president was doing, say on ms13, his rhetoric on sanctuary cities, when you vote for trump, someone who introduced the muslim ban on campaign, youre getting someone who uses tough, harsh offensive language on immigration and people liked it. And talking to them since this crisis, it seems this may be the one blanket issue on immigration where it just goes too far. And those images and these stories, they cut across party lines and even some of the president s loyal supporters are coming out and saying, this isnt right. And so, again, we dont know still exactly how this will play out. And if the president will change his tune, but i think you are right in that this may be one of these rare galvanizing issues where President Trump can no longer defy political gravity. I want your thought on that. I want to give you two more things to respond to, though. The New York Times reporting for george w. Bush and barack obama the idea of crying children torn from their parents arms is too inhumane to embrace this political policy. More evidence this is not the law. This is a trump choice. Lets talk about that, but i also want to show you Kiersten Nielsen. This is secretary of Homeland Security i guess rapidly responding to laura bush. Lets watch. For many in the press, in congress and advocacy groups over the last few weeks, that we at d. H. S. Are intentionally doing things that are unhumanitarian, that are cruel, immoral and disgraceful. We are doing none of those things. It is important to note that these minors are very well taken care of. Dont believe the press. Im sorry, how about believing believe you . How about our own eyes. Laura bush or secretary nielsen, im going with laura bush. Ouvriere government should not be in the business of warehousing children in conslerted box stores or making plans to place them in tent cities in a desert. Okay. So, dont believe the press reports. As our colleague jacob has been out there and reported, i believe last week, gave us the narrative of being informed by the officials there to smile at the children so that way you can show them theyre not animals. Okay. If theyre not they dont feel like animals in cages. Thank you. So, if thats what the press is being told when theyre coming in to take a look at these facilities, to smile at the children so they dont feel like theyre animals in cages, what does that tell you about the situation these kids are in . That the people who are overseeing this would think that those kids get the impression that theyre animals in cages. Jacob, you want to try to answer that . On top of all of that, it doesnt matter as one official said to me, it doesnt matter if you put these children in a five star hotel in a caribbean island. After theyre separated from their parents which is what this policy is all about, theyre going to have trauma that lasts a lifetime. You could have them in disneyland every single day. You could do whatever you wanted was their favorite thing in the world. But being ripped from your parents when youre a minor is not something that you will ever forget. Thats exactly right. Jacob, let me follow on that with a quote in the Washington Post. From a pediatrician making a similar point to the one youre making who says, inside a room dedicated to toddlers was a little girl not older than two screaming and pounding her fist on a matt. What woman tried to give her toys and books to calm her down but even that shelter worker seemed frustrated. As much as she wanted to console the little girl she couldnt touch, hold or pick her up and let her know everything would be all right. That was the rule. Theyre not allowed to touch the children. Your broader point is even if they changed the rule, what these children want is their mothers and fathers. At the end of the day by the way,