Msnbc. Com now, the msnbc app and apple tv. And you can find me on social media, twitter, facebook, instagram, snapchat, linked in, all that stuff. Thank you for watching. Have a great weekend. Deadline white house with Nicolle Wallace begins right now. Hi, everyone. Its 4 00 in new york. Donald trump today resorting to a familiar tactic spreading lies and smears on one of his favorite cable news programs in the wake of the House Democrats public hearings this week providing irrefutable evidence that donald trump conditioned refused military aid could tukt informations. The New York Times writes, quote, President Trump unleashed a series of falsehoods on friday on an effort to invalidate the Impeachment Inquiry and counter sworn testimony from officials in his own administration. After a week of damaging public
hearings. And while divisions in our politics endure, its beyond debate that the democrats fact witnesses, the majority of them, trump appointees and career diplomats, painted a devastating picture of president ial misconduct that was damning enough that the New York Times today describes trumps republican allies as, quote, all but certain that the house will move forward to impeach President Trump. Nbc news reports today that the house is expecting to vote on articles of impeachment in a matter of weeks as republicans face a devastating dismantling of their last remaining defenses against the allegations at the heart of the ukraine scandal. The Washington Post adds this. Quote, the committee has begun writing a report summarizing its findings according to people familiar with the matter who spoke anonymously to discuss the democrats next move. Once thats completed proceedings move to the House Judiciary Committee which will draft specific articles of impeachment. The Judiciary Committee could begin its work when lawmakers return from thanksgiving. What we now know for certain
based on the public testimony of 12 of trumps own current and former Administration Officials is that there was, without question, a quid pro quo with ukraine. A pursuit trumps former senior aide fiona hill rebranded this week as, quote, Political Errands we have also learned that the ukrainians knew full well that their military aid was in jeopardy as early as the day of the july 25th phone call when trump asked zelensky for a favor though. Investigations into the bidens and that when it came to the daytoday machinations of the pressure campaign, the president wi everyone was in the loop. Mr. Giulianis requests were a quid pro quo for arranging a white house visit for president zelensky. Was there a quid pro quo . The answer is yes. What did ambassador sondland
tell you that he told m mr. Yermak . That the ukrainians would have to have the Prosecutor General make a statement with respect to the investigations as a condition of having the aid lifted. Your staff at least gleaned from those conversations that the Ukrainian Embassy was aware that there was some kind of a hold on the assistance. Sir, the way i would phrase it is that there was some kind of an issue, yes. Secretary perry, ambassador volker, and i worked with mr. Rudy giuliani on ukraine matters at the express direction of the president of the United States. I was upset with him that he wasnt fully telling us about all of the meetings that he was having. And he said to me but i am briefing the president , i am briefing Chief Of Staff mulvaney, i am briefing secretary pompeo, and i have talked to ambassador bolton. Who else do i have to deal with . He was being involved in a domestic political errand. And we were being involved in National SecurityForeign Policy, and those two things had just diverged. I did say to him ambassador sondland, i think this is all going to blow up, and here we are. And here we are. Those witnesses again some of whom still work in the Trump Administration are consistent and they tell a damaging story leaving such little room for spin that President Trump today had to resort to an attack on ukraine and a baseless Conspiracy Theory that every single one of the witnesses to date has debunked in a headspinning Rebuttal Interview this morning on Fox And Friends. Why should we give money to a country thats known corrupt, its a very corrupt country. I love the people in ukraine. I know ukrainian people. They are great people. But its known as being the third most corrupt consider eye in the world. Now, with this guy who, by the
way i hardly know him, i still want to see that server. The fbis never gotten that server. Thats a big part of this whole thing. Why did they give it to a Ukrainian Company . Are you sure they did that . Are you sure they gave it to ukraine . Well, thats what the word is. Thats what i asked actually in my phone call. I asked it very pointblank because we are looking for corruption. Thats what the word is from whom . From rudy . Again, there is no truth to what the president is saying. And there is a new report in the New York Times reveals this claim that Ukraine Meddled in the 2016 election is literally a russian talking point, part of a yearslong russian operation to blame ukraine to deflect from what it got caught doing, interfering in our election in 2016. Thats where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. Former u. S. Attorney joyce vance joins us, Michael Steele, former chairman of the rnc is here. At the table kimberly atkins, Senior Correspondent for bostons public news station, New York Times political reporter nick confessori, and contributor for the bulwark, tim miller is here. Kim, i have to start with you. You could not make up, you know, a new cycle to prove that everything that fiona hill tried to tell donald trump Behind Closed Doors fell on deaf ears, then to put donald trump on Fox And Friends where he repeats the Conspiracy Theories that she and tom bossert and john bolton tried to beat out of him for three years. You are absolutely right. And not just the very convincing testimony by fiona hill, but a culmination of two weeks of stories which all fit together to paint this picture of this, which she called this domestic political errand that was completely divergent from u. S. Policy and that was focused
specifically on getting information about joe biden and hunter biden in exchange for either a white house meeting, which the ukrainians wanted a phone call, or most importantly aid at a time where the country was at war with russia. Every official painted the same picture. Even those like Gordon Sondland somebody who got his job after giving a Million Dollars to trumps inaugural committee. It was a very damning two weeks of testimony. It seems that the president has settled on, a, digging in, and, b, continuing to put forward these Talking Points that we have heard from him and we have heard them from Rudy Giuliani about ukraine, which have been disproven. You know, nick, youre in the business of Investigative Journalism and you go about if its a dicey story you need at least two sources. And if its really dicey you need three or four. To prove a quid pro quo the democrats had 17 witnesses. Its proven beyond a reasonable doubt that donald trump conditioned military aid for u. S. Ally, a democracy at risk
from russia on politically motivated investigations into 2016 and into the bidens. And he told us so. Yeah. So on a factual basis, where would you rank sort of the voracity of the case the democrats made . If i was a reporter, and i am, id be super confident in taking out of the phrase alleged and just saying this is what actually happened. We now know what really happened. We know what the trade was. I would say if this was like a jig saw puzzle, instead of the one where like you try and figure out where the pieces fit together, we sort of started with like the border already built and we were kind of filling in the middle. Now we have the whole thing. Its actually very clear. We have learned some important new things obviously from these hearings. But theyre mostly about precise issues of timing which are always helpful in figuring out something. Kind of who knew what when, the president s involvement, mulvaneys involvement, and the ukrainians knowledge of what
was happening at any given time. Those are all important ingredients. It wasnt like it was a pointless exercise. But, man, everything is pretty nailed down now. You know, its a great point, joyce. And i was thinking about it with nick sitting here from an investigative journalists perspective. But you are a prosecutor. Andrew weissmann was at our table yesterday. And other prosecutors. I mean, if you ask people if theyd take this case and think they could prove it. Claire mccaskill says i could take it, i could prove it pretty cut and dry. You know, in a criminal case, which impeachment is not the burden of proof is the highest proof in our legal system, proof beyond a reasonable doubt. But what judges tell juries, you dont have to include every scintilla of doubt. You just have to be comfortable enough with the evidence that you would use it to act on one of the most important decisions in your own personal life. And that i think is what we see
here. When i hear nick say he would take out the word alleged, that means a lot to me. The only defense that this president has ever tried to mount here is the defense that hes a corruption fighter. Trump who is anticorruption. And aside from the fact that that defense is completely laughable for all of the reasons that we know and talk about every day, what really nails it is the fact that if trump wanted to fight corruption in ukraine, he would have kept Marie Yovanovitch on the job. She was a known corruption fighter. Theres no reason to bring in a bumbling Rudy Giuliani and the three amigos. So every defense that the president has to offer here i think as a criminal case this would be very strong. Michael steele and tim miller from the Party Formerly known as republicans. Let me read you from what peggy nuna said. What was but more deadly was what has never been said. In the two months since Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced a formal Impeachment Inquiry was underway in the two weeks since the intelligence committees public hearings began, no one s even in the white house has said anything like he wouldnt do that or that would be so unlike him. His best friends, know he would do it, and its exactly like him. The case has been so clearly made you wonder what exactly the senate will be left doing. How will they hold a lengthy trial with a case that is this clear . Who exactly will be the president s witnesses . Those who testify they didnt know what he appears to havent done . Bravo first off on that piece. But i would answer the question of the trial itself as it will be nothing more than a show trial. It will go down one of two paths. Either those Impeachment Articles will come to the senate and be put in the drawer of the
senate president because he feels mr. Mcconnell that there is nothing that merits a trial, or if he feels that, okay, well just go through the process, they will go through the process. But we already know the vote, dont we . Why do we . The jurors well, because the jurors have told us at least one of them has said im not even going to read what comes out of this, mr. Lindsey graham. Imagine as a citizen going into a courtroom and youre one of the jurors, youre going to do your civic duty and the guy next to you goes i aint even going to read this stuff. I aint even going to bother with it. The whole system becomes corrupted. And thats the end game here. Thats what its been from jim jordan to Lindsey Graham. This is all about corrupting this process so vily that the American People are turned off and turned away. It is such a sad commentary. And im only picking on my friend Michael Steele because i find it, it guts me that this is what the Republican Partys turned into, that the corruption is in the gop In Washington. The corruption isnt in ukraine. I mean, im jealous that people like Marie Yovanovitch sort of walk the line and rooted out corruption. Maybe they can bring her to washington and put her to work in the congress, tim. Exactly what the president and Rudy Giuliani are accusing joe biden of doing is what they did in ukraine. It was Rudy Giuliani who went to ukraine who had Business Interests who wanted there to be changes in the way that they did Natural Gas Business in ukraine because he had clients there. It was this administration that has done that, and now in ukraine and turkey and saudi arabia where they have businesses and where they are corrupt. Youre right the entire senate has been corrupted by this. Lindsey graham, there was a video going around of him doing an interview with my different scott conway where he gets emotional talking about joe biden. He says there is no better man than joe biden. And here he is today putting forth just a basically forshow investigation for the senate that he knows is b. S. Against joe biden. Because whatever you think about what hunter did and it was, you know, probably a little bit dirty, joe biden went into ukraine to encourage what was dirty about it . I just want to be careful with our words. We had 11 witnesses publicly. No one testified anything dirty. Are you saying it looked bad . The optics are terrible, and obviously hunter biden doesnt have the expertise in this area. I think thats a fair point that the republicans are making on the hill. But here is the problem is that they are obscuring the reality of the point, which is that joe biden, president obama, and multiple other members of the Obama Administration went into ukraine with an earnest effort to stop corruption. They wanted to get rid of the prosecutor because he Wasnt Prosecuting The Company that hunter biden worked for. That was a genuine anticorruption effort. So, what joe biden did can i just say . Heres what else they are obscuring. If a real crime happened donald trump sits atop the part of the government where he can pick up the phone and call the Justice Department with a tip. Theyve got tip lines. If a real crime happened, you dont call a fake corruption hunter like Rudy Giuliani. And by the way, that goes doubly true for ron johnson and Lindsey Graham and all those people who were in the senate when this happened. Like, this wasnt in ancient history. The republicans controlled the house and the senate when joe biden was going over to ukraine to do anticorruption efforts. If they thought that the deal was rotten, they could have done investigations then. They didnt. Ron johnson signed a letter saying he agreed that the prosecutor should be fired. Its all a farce. Well, you know, it doesnt have to be. Maybe i have watched too many erin sorkin movies, but there is still a scenario where i thought some Tectonic Plates shifted this week. I thought one of them was gordon
sondlands sort of Early Morning release of his statement where he said everybody was in on it. I wasnt rogue, i wasnt part of an irregular policy channel. This was the channel. It was run by donald trump, Vice President pence and mike pompeo. This was the channel. And then i thought the plate shifted again when fiona hill came in yesterday and said you are doing russias work for them. Do we really think there is no scenario where if john bolton were to sort of find religion and walk in and testify in a senate trial that republicans who have trusted john bolton for decades wouldnt say hmmm . I think the one variable here is Public Opinion. We have seen that shifted since, for example, the mueller investigation, it seemed to go on and on, hard to wrap your head around. The last two weeks has painted a fairly clear picture. We are going into a break where we are going to have people and they are not supposed to talk about politics at the thanksgiving table, but i have a feeling that that will be happening. And people have been, look, when i traveled across. Ive been everywhere from california to the east coast and the midwest. Everyone stops and asks about the impeachment. Its on peoples minds. People are going to be talking about it. People are going to be digesting what has happened over the last two weeks. And they are going to be the lawmakers are going to be hearing from them about it. If that shifts particularly some mor