Question their witnesses. If you would like to participate in the hearing, please provide the committee with notice as soon as possible but no later than december 1st. The judiciary picking up be baton for the next phase of the house impeachment inquiry as public support for Donald Trumps impeachment tops 50 . As a federal judge delivers a blow to Donald Trumps claim of asbestbsolute immunity writing ruling indead asbestos luts testimonial immunity for senior level white house aids appears to be a fiction. President s are not kings. They do not have subjects bound by loyalty or blood whose destiny they are entitled to control. That case resolvovled around th lawyer for don mcgahn. The lawyer out with a statement. Don mcgahn will comply with judge jacksons opinion unless its stayed pending appeal. The Justice Department is already appealing the decision but it guts the legal justi justification thats being deployed by the white house to justify stone walling congress. If the judge in the case involving the testimony of john boltons Deputy Charles cupperman makes a judgment similar to the one we found out it could open the flood gates for the testimony of senior impeachment witnesses like cupperman, john bolton, Mick Mulvaney and mike pompeo. Thats where we start today. Garrett, let me start with you. These are two different cases. Two different judges but just talk about the potential impact of a ruling like this one in mcgahns case on these seemingly reluctant impeachment witnesses. The most Senior Administration officials. Reporter sure. As for mcgahn himself hes unlikely to show up and democratic inverss astors are d on if they want him at all. What this could do is could shake loose a host of other witnesses who democrats do want to talk to. Not the least of which is john bolton and his deputy mr. Cupperman. These worked closely with the president on National Security issues. They might argue for other exceptions as their lawyer has already done so saying this ruling doesnt apply to them because they worked so closely on National Security issues but there are lots of other officials democrats would like to talk to. Folk who is worked at the omb, political appointees who can help explain how money moved and why it didnt. A number of officials who fell under the white house argument of asbestos lubsolute immunityi no one close to the white house could be compelled to testify at all. This judges ruling throws that out as a con sent for white house aides and advisers. They could still put forth different elements of executive privilege but the idea they could be blocked across the board from showing up goes out with the bath water in this judges ruling. If democrats can shake loose some of those other witnesses, really at any point up until they vote on the floor, a senate trial starts. We know the broad facts of the case but anymore information could be the kind of thing that sways republicans or more importantly the public in continuing to support this inquiry. Mike, let me read how your paper covered this today. In rejecting the trump administrations sweeping claim that top president ial advisers are absolutely immune from being compelled to talk about their official duties meaning they do not have to show up, the judge said the same is true even for those who worked on National Security issues. Notably john bolton, mr. Trumps National Security adviser has let it be known he has significant information but is uncertain whether any congressional subpoena for his testimony would be constitutionally valid. He wants a judge to decide. What is the potential impact of a similar ruling in the cupperman case which is the one filed by lawyer shared by mr. Bolton and his deputy, mr. Cupperman . That case has a whole other issue which is the house has dropped the subpoena of cupperman. His lawyer wants the judge to rule on it any way to get some clarity on this issue. He knows it will hang around and he knows that bolton is hanging out there. The house has decided not to subpoena bolton. Im not sure exactly why they did that. It will continue to delay this and mover it months and months ahead. Assignments li it seems like they want to move quickly. They have scheduled things next week. They want to move this to the senate. The problem is that speed slows that speed moves them ahead quickly but really hurts their ability to get those people the closest to the president. That allows republicans to make this argument saying we havent heard from anyone in current contact with the president besides sondland. The democrats are not able to pressure the republicans enough. Neil, mike probably just described what is going on behind closed doors among democrats debating the pros and cons of subpoenaing that highest level of president ial advisers. We have seen some news reporting about john bolton going to donald trump, john boltons lawyer made clear a couple fridays ago he had lots and lots and lots of interesting information about this affair. His closest deputy fiona hill has testified to john boltons conduct that youd have to assume if he disagreed with her characterizations, we would have heard from somebody. Can you take the latest reporting and help us understand what the actual calculation must be from house democrats. The president has gagged every one in the executive branch from going and testifying on the hill. Every employee, every document, every email. A few witnesses have come forward and Even Trump Administration have said im going to tell the truth to the American People. Thats what we have been seeing in these hearings in the last two weeks. Now the question is will bolton and other people come and testi testify. A subpoena forces these folks to come forward and testify and it can be challenged in court. What the democrats are saying is look we already have the goods on the president. You just read the transcript on july 25th. You that outlines the entire case. The witnesses of the last two weeks have demonstrated it. Ambassador dobolton is kind of gravy. It would be helpful to have but you dont need it. They wont subpoena him because they know it will take some time. As it moves to senate, the democrats and the house will be prosecuting the case will be absolutely within their right to do so. Its almost criminal to think this president is not allowing these people to testify who have first hand knowledge. The American People should have that. We shouldnt have to wait for the senate. If we have to wait, well get it at the time of the senate. Almost criminal. Sounds like it might be another article of impeachment which was the case in the nixon articles. Yeah. I love neils thanksgiving metaphor about john bolton being gravy. Its like getting gravy six months after thanksgiving. Its not necessary. Its totally useless and you would never delay thanksgiving to wait for the gravy six months later. The democrats have precisely everything they need to move now to the law stage. What is the law of impeachment. What is the constitutional standard . Thats what the house will dive into. About the republicans trying to claim there will be a process foul if the democrats didnt wait for the witnesses, thats ridiculous. They are the ones saying the witnesses cannot come. How can they turn around and say we have to wait for the witness witnesses. It doesnt make any sense. I think the democrats have what they need. Theyll move to next phase. I expect articles on impeachment to be on the floor before the end of the year. Torture our thanksgiving metaphor, lets me be the fly in the gravy, i think the case has been made. You have former republican saying the facts are the fact. They are irrefutable. I think what garrett and mike are also speaking to is the political reality which is that i have not talked to a single democrat who thinks that conviction in the senate is even possible. Do some of these witnesses move the political equation . I dont think that waiting for bolton or mulvaney or others is going to change that calculus. We have gone through several weeks of amassing the case. They presented their case. Nothing that anybody says after this is really going to change that. You offer to perry. Im going to come back at you. Go ahead. Reporter let me jump in here and torture this metaphor further. Bolton is a perfectly turkey sandwich days over. He talks. He tweets. If bolton goes on a book tour in january during the impeachment trial, his information is still usable. Its useful to the public. Its still out there. Its still the kind of thing that could move Public Opinion. Theres a bunch of other ways that somebody like john bolton could affect this process. He has a penchant for wanting to tell his side of the story. If he does that during any point, its still useful. Mike take us decide what the lawsuit is designed to do. Is it designed to give him political cover to say im a good republican. I didnt want to be part of the democrats political impeachment process. What does he want to happen. Do you have the sense he would be removed. Whats the sense from homiciinss legal team . I think there is a legitimate legal issue where one branch of government is saying yes. The other branch of government is saying no and this individual and cupperman has to make a decision. I think theres some concern on his legal team that if he was supposed to appear and he didnt and there was later a new administration, trump lost and whoever became president , a democrat president that they may prosecute these folks for not complying with the congressional subpoenas. By going to court they are getting a judge to rule on this issue. The white house is saying you cant do this. The hill is saying you want me to talk. If there were to be a new president the statute of limitations is five years. That would protect cupperman Going Forward. I agree with that. I also think thats only on why they wouldnt. I think the real question is why isnt ambassador gobolton going and testifying like these other 12 witnesses are. Theres some reluctance on his part to testify. The decision by judge jackson gives him cart blanche. If he wants to testify hes within his right. I cant imagine anyone prosecuting him or anything like that. There must be some reluctance on his part to go forward whether its for the book or whatever, who knows. Some loyalty to trump. Who knows. Lets break this down. The democrats, i think theres some exasperation that bolton has a red carpet. His story has been told by people like sondland and fiona hill. Theres a model for someone like bolton. He managed to come out of that. There is a model for someone that wants to comply. First of all, i dont eat turkey because im a vegetarian and you can keep the fly in the gravy. I think judge jacksons ruling was a total rebuke to the president being above the law, the Administration Acting like the president is above the law. That is a good decision we saw. He said this thing absolute immunity isnt a thing. Its not a thing. While its great mcgahn can do whatever he wants, the target is bolton. Bolton, he should come forward and speak his truth and tell us whats going on. He has to make a decision now. History is watching him. Where is he going to be on this . Is he really going to be about the book and the money hes getting for the book. We have to see what hes going to do. I think theres still time. It probably wont happen during the judiciary component which will last a month and its going to be passed on the floor and go to senate. Well see if it comes up. Now the pressure is on bolton. What is he going to do . History is watching. Garrett let me come to you on some information that i think is ripe 7ning as we came on the ai. The witnesses and the push for people like bolton is one front but i understand the documents have yielded some fruitful morse morsels. The kind of evidence they have been able to go out and talk to and how the money held up. Talk about what were learning about new documents from omb. Reporter the actual impeachment committees are still getting stone walled by every executive Branch Agency they have reached out to. Other committees have been probing this. The House Budget Committee have managed to get their hands on some documents inside the omb. It shows the first time a piece of paper was signed as related to this hold on money for ukraine was on the evening of july 25th, just a few hours after President Trump got off the phone with president zelensky. That was the First Official action taken to put this hold into place. It was the last time that a career official at omb signed any document relating to that hold. It was after that that those documents which had to be renewed and changed were signed over and over again by a political appointee at the budget office. Ill bring that back to my first point. That political appointee has refused to comply with subpoena and testify but who could be affected by this order on the mcgahn case. I want to read you Donald Trumps tweet which we know from the Mueller Probe that his tweets were examined as potential witness tampering and efforts to speak or channel messaging or threats to potential witnesses. Let me read you what he tweeted today. Im fighting for future president s and the office of the president. Other than that, id like people to testify. Don mcgahns respected lawyer has already stated i did nothing wrong. John bolton is patriot and may know i held back the money from ukraine because its considered a corrupt country and i wanted to know why nearby European Countries arent putting up money also. Like wise, i would love to have mike pompeo, rick perry, Mick Mulvaney and many others testify about the phony impeachment hoax. How might that age . Oh, my god. Give me a break. The idea that donald trump is out for like protecting the rights of future president s, this is the guy who will destroy the notion of executive power. People like us who served in the Justice Department really care about that and husbanded that resource and hes prompting ruling after ruling to destroy executive Branch Powers like yesterdays opinion. His legacy is not going to be to protect president s but to weaken them. Then the idea that he wants to have these people testify, that can happen tomorrow. Bring it on. This president isnt doing that. Hes gagged all those very people in that tweet, pompeo, bolton, et cetera. Thats why the way you started the program was to talk about the House Judiciary Committee invitation next week for hearings. The very last line of that letter that chairman nadler wrote is significant. It says to the president , if you continue to stone wall, if you continue not produce witnesses and documents we reserve the right for appropriate remedies. I think what thats getting at is what happened in nixon. Nixon tried to order that same stone walling and the senate said if you do that, were going to order these witnesses here and start jailing them. I read what chairman nadler did as that kind of threat. Nixon backed down and allowed people to testify. I sure hope President Trump does this. I hope he follows whats in that tweet because if he doesnt, hes hiding the truth from the American People. Thank you to all of you for all the gravy and turkey references. To neal, his brand new book is out today. When we come back, contrary to the white house spin, public support for the president s impeachment is on the rise. A former republican senator writes in todays New York Times that the president s conduct is indeed impeachable. Will any current gop senators come to the same conclusion. Russia if youre listening, you can have him. Tucker carlson goes full kremlin on his talk show last night while a gop senator walks back his recitation of russian talking points. 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