Bloombergpolitics. Com for the great story about Hillary Clintons frustrations with Bernie Sanders and his enduring campaign. For us, we say sayonara. Coming up, hardball with Chris Matthews. The primary that makes milwaukee famous. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Chris Matthews in milwaukee, wisconsin, on the eve of tomorrows big republican and democratic tests. Can donald trump prevail over questions about his fitness for the countrys highest office . Can Hillary Clinton inspire democrats with the prospect of a second clinton presidency. Can bernie increase his victories to six of the last seven contests, thereby shaking hillary loose from her image as the inevitable nominee . Lets start with donald trump. The republican establishment
here from the governor on down has lined up against trump. Here in wisconsin. But heres the big but. The most recent poll out today from Emerson College shows ted cruz ahead of trump by just five points. Thats half the lead that cruz had in last weeks polls. So trump may be regaining strength here in wisconsin. At a rally today, trump predicted a win here tomorrow. I really believe tomorrow were going to have a very, very big victory. If we do well here, folks, its over. If we dont win here, its not over. But wouldnt you like to take the credit in wisconsin for ending it . Give wisconsin the credit for ending it. And then we can focus on hillary instead of these two guys. Well, trump mocked his rival ted cruz. Here he is. Weve gone through many, many states. I have won, i think, 22 states. Cruz gets up, he says im the
only one. You know, i wish he could just talk normally every once in a while. You ever hear this . Im the only one. That has proven that i can beat donald trump. Remember in the debate. I beat him five times. And i looked over and i said, yeah, but i have beaten you 22 times. You remember that . Remember . And he stuck like this. He didnt say anything. Robert costa is a National Political reporter for the washington post, an, seiz,s bureau chief for u. S. Today. Let me start with robert. How did the trump people looking at tomorrows bet after what happened last week with all the bad news. They think the base is energized and motivated because of the negative week trumps
had. The tumultuous week hes had. They think people will show up. Its a test for the trump campaign. They dont have the same organization cruz has in the state. Cruz has the conservatives in the milwaukee suburbs. They want to close this just like trump said in the trump campaign, but its a test. Do you show the polls getting closer or not . We said, i said a moment ago they were twice the lead that cruz had twice the lead about double digit about ten points last week. Now hes down to half a double digit, about five points. Is that your sense of the race right now going into tomorrows fight . Its all over with polling. Because some polls show it close. Theres a new poll out tonight that shows trump up. Its cruz who has been leading for weeks. The big question is cruz is likely to win milwaukee suburbs, the walker base. The walker people likely going to cruz. The question is northwest wisconsin, southeast wisconsin, some of the more workingclass, rural areas, harder to predict. Donald trump said he could be
president ial if he wants to be, but hes not ready to be that yet. Lets watch him. I could be president ial. But if i was president ial, wed only have about 20 of you would be here because it would be boring as hell. Now, let me be unpresident ial just for a little while longer. And maybe ill be a little unpresident ial as i beat hillary because, oh. Well beat hillary so badly. Dont forget, i havent started on hillary yet. Now, robert, ill get to the other later, but you have been watching this. Is this his way of saying dont held me to some test of president fitness. Its too early for that. Dont ask me if i can say things correctly or not. Let me make my mistakes. Let me test the air, let me have fun with all the schtick of mine. Is that what hes trying to say to smooth over what happened last week . Hes not just talking to the press. Hes talking to his family, to his friends, his closest advisers. Based on my reporter, bod woodward and i sat down with him. Were hearing everyone is telling trump, tone it down, act president ial, pivot toward the general election. And in private and in public hes saying no thanks. Im staying to be the swaggering guy i have been the whole campaign because he things he has to win. He thinks if he pulls back, if he pulls a punch, cruz is going to get room. Talk about that internal memo you got your hands on this week that showed sort of the attitude he has on the inside. An attitude, chris. This is not a soul searching campaign. This is not a group of people who over the weekend are saying, woe be us. We have struggled in the polls. Were behind in wisconsin. Instead, theyre attacking their critics. Theyre saying the critics are wrong. Were fine, everything is good. This is a campaign in a fight mode. A lot of people in the Party Establishment say this cant work out longterm. They got to do some expansion of the message. For now, this is a tightknit
group around trump, and theyre fighting. Susan page, and perry, is this still the primary, early primary season where you can get away with just being the best show in town . Well, i think were going to find out tomorrow night because this is the biggest test that donald trump has faced since iowa. Its a test of whether the kind of resilience hes shown to our surprise over and over again, still conveys. And i think he continues to have a shortterm strategy of being, letting trump be trump and being the kind of outrageous, outspoken figure thats brought him this far, and refusing to do the kind of pivot he would have to do to be electable in november. Heconcerned about that at this point. His negatives now in key voter groups like women, hispanics, africanamericans, suburbanites are so high, its hard to have a scenario where he wins the general election. He seem s focused on the stratey
that took him this far, made him the 41 runter for the nomination. About women, is there any way to read how women reacted to all that went on last week, starting with the faces of his glamorous wife up against heidi cruz . And then what happened with lewandowski and the battery charge, and then what happened with us on msnbc . All of that seemed to raise questions about fitness to women, wouldnt it . Do you think theres no reading yet on that total is what youre saying . The arg poll showed one of the biggest jepder gaps in the history of american polling. Trump doing really well among men in wisconsin and really badly among women. A huge disparity, and i think that reflects some of the things that have happened in the past week, including on your show. Let me go to perry on that. Same question to you, because you know, it was a bad week of press. Hes saying that internal memo that robert got ahold of it, it was all the presss fault or the elites fault. Thats the normal thing to do. Is there an objective to reality. Theres atwof different campaigns going on. In terms of the republican nomination process, in terms of the voters in the primaries and caucuses, hes probably doing fine. Hes got a certain base. Its likely not big enough in wisconsin, but hes likely to win in new york and maryland. But theres another campaign about the unbound delegates, the potential second ballot, and the republican establishment, the people choo w. H. O. Can vote in the convention, theyre looking for a guy who can win the election, who is electable, who is president ial. And paul ryan today saying if cruz wins wisconsin, were having a contested convention. I think that tells you they dont want to see trump win. Trump has to think about appealing to the base and the elites in case he has to win the nomination at the convention. Yeah, well talk about paul ryan. Incipient campaign or potential campaign in the next block. I think theres something going on there. Robert, as you said, you and bob woodward interviewed trump this week. One of the topics was the economy. Trump had a gloomy warning out there that were on the verge of a very massive recession. Trump also was asked about investing in the stock market. He told you, quote, its a terrible time right now. Look, in wisconsin today, trump stood by his dire predictions on the economy and he offered one glimmer of hope, elected donald trump. Here he is. What i said is were going to go into a massive recession. But i also say if im president , thats not going to happen. Because im going to straighten things out before it happens. Well, theres a logic question there, of course, robert. If he gets elected president , puts together an economic plan, it takes six months to a year to have any fiscal effect, or Monetary Policy effect. Whats he talking about, theres a recession coming next july he can forestall . Thats the only argument. Starting with next president ial candidate. Its so unprecedented for a major party figure to step out and talk about a massive recession on the horizon, calling it a terrible time to invest. Woodward and i walked out and we said, we wonder if the markets were open what it would do. Trump as hes talking down the economy. His answer for everything on the economy, he has a tax cut, butthal answer, trade. He thinks renegotiating trade deals is going to cause growth. Experts say its going to be hard, and they dont expect a massive recession. We have reported on that as well. They dont have the same view as trump, the broad view and the consensus in the economic community. Perry, i have never heard of a politician predicting doomsday, saying all hell goes loose if i dont get elected. By the way, ill get there just in time next summer to change course, to somehow change the economy and the economic
outlook. What is he doing this for . It fits his strategy, which is to say everything in america is terrible, we need to have a man like me fix it. So it fits what hes doing. Its a very dangerous thing, though, to talk about recessions and the economy collapsing. If he says that kind of thing in october, the markets really could go down if hes likely to win. Its a very dangerous comment, and it suggests, and also its as we know, Economic Growth is growing. The job growth is growing in america. Theres no evidence of a massive recession coming. Again, its another place where trump is at war with the facts. Susan, last word. It looks a little selfish to say elect me or the economy is going to go down. If youre not sure, objective data that something is coming. Im not sure she has any. It raises the question if he were president ial and made comments like this, it would have global implications, negative ones, for the economy. For some people who are maybe
undecided between the candidates, they might look and say is this theperson i want to elect . It goes to the idea of trumps strength is his willingness to say what hes thinking, to not have it be filtered. But when youre trying to think about being elected president , thats also his weakness. Attention getting, no doubt about it. Catching our attention. Robert, susan, perry. Not sure its good for the country to talk down the economic future. Thank you all for joining us. Coming up, as trump and cruz gear up for a contested convention this summer, could it be that House Speaker paul ryan will emerge as the republican nominee . Ryan is going out of his way, of course, to say hes not interested, but would the party rather lose with trump or cruz or run a fresh face like ryan to topple hillary . Im thinking a lot about that. Plus, the democratic fight between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. Sanders has momentum right now and should win here tomorrow night. So why is this campaign talking about mistakes its made in the past . I dont think its making many
mistakes now. And the hardball roundtable is here in milwaukee. Will tomorrow nights wisconsin primary be a turning point in the republican race . Will it point the democratic race in Bernie Sanders direction . Finally, let me finish with this political situation in our country as of tonight. This is hardball, live from milwaukee, on the eve of the wisconsin primary. Those new glasses . They are. Do i look smarter . Yeah, a little. Youre making money now, are you investing . Well, ive been doing some research. Let me introduce you to our broker. How much does he charge . I dont know. Okay. Uh, do you get your fees back if youre not happy . dad laughs. Thats not the way the world works. Well, the worlds changing. Are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed . Wealth management, at charles schwab. Whyto learn, right . E . So you can get a good job and youre not working for peanuts. Well what if i told you that peanuts can work for you . While you guys are busy napping, peanuts are delivering 7 grams of protein and 6 essential nutrients right to your mouth. You ever see a peanut take a day off . No. Peanuts dont even get casual khaki fridays. Because peanuts take their job seriously. So unless you want a life of skimming wifi off the neighbors, youll harness the hardworking power of the peanut. cheering United StatesSupreme Court has unanimously rejected a challenge from texas voters that would allow the state to draw election maps reducing the strength of latino voters. The highest court said states may continue to count all residents when drawing election districts. Regardless of whether or not a resident is eligible to vote or if they entered the country with proper documents. The move denies an effort by conservatives to increase the number of mostly white districts at the expense of largely minority voting districts. The decision maintains the essential principle of the political system based on one person, one vote. And well be right back. Polidents unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99. 99 of odor causing bacteria. For a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture every day. This just got interesting. Why pause to take a pill . Or stop to find a bathroom . Cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. Do not drink alcohol in excess. Side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. To avoid longterm injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. If you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. Ask your doctor about cialis and a 200 savings card shoshow me more like this. E. Stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. Show me previously watched. Whats recommended for me. X1 makes it easy to find what you love. Call or go online and switch to x1. Only with xfinity. Welcome back to hardball. As republicans brace for the possibility of their first open convention in decades, many are now eyeing an outside candidates if delegates are deadlocked between trump and cruz. Mike allen, of politico, reports today, quote, Top Republicans are becoming increasingly vocal about their longheld belief that Speaker Paul Ryan will wind up as the Party Nominee for president. Perhaps when the fourth ballot at a chaotic cleveland convention. One of the nations best wired republicans with an enviable prediction record for sees a 60 of a deadlock, and a 90 chance that the delegates turn to ryan. Speaker ryan, who has repeatedly said he has no intention of accepting the republican nomination, denied again today he would be willing to take the job. Here he is. The people put my name in this thing, i say get my name out of that. If you want to be president , you should run for president. And thats just the way i see it. Youre not the fresh face that karl rove was talking about. Im not the fresh face, im not that person. I would like to think my face is somewhat fresh. Not for this conversation. I think you need to run for president if youre going to be president. Period, end of story. Well, not end of story. In another interview published by the times of israel, ryan also said wisconsin is a fairly important signal as to whether were going to have an open convention or not. If trump wins, then hes putting himself in a pretty good path to clinching the nomination. If he loses wisconsin, it makes him more likely that its an open convention. Im joined by former wisconsin governor and john kasich supporter, tommy thompson, as
well as msnbc political analyst, Howard Fineman of the huffington post. Thank you for joining us. I know youre for kasich, but im looking at a lot of Coverage Today that suggests that ryan will be in the mix once it goes to more than one ballot. Well, chris, first off, thanks for letting me be on your program, and its good to see you again. But lets face the facts. John kasich has got the record. Hes got the ability. Hes got the intellect to be a great president. And if you look back at 1860, when we had the first open convention, the First Convention for republicans, Abraham Lincoln came in number three to the convention in chicago and came out of it. John kasich is well qualified, is a great candidate, and i think hes going to come out with the nomination, either on the second, third, or fourth ballot. Paul ryan is a great person. I support paul ryan. I asked paul if he was going to be a candidate for president. He said absolutely not. I think some day he will be president. But this year is not his time. So i think that if everybody wants a new face and an ability to get this country turned around, john kasich is that person. Lets get behind the person that has shown he can do it, balance the budget, run the state, hes got the record. Hes the person we should nominate. Howard, your view about ryan, because im thinking that roger stone, you dont have to like the guy to know hes smart. And roger stone suggested thats right. Its either going to be trump on the first ballot or ryan on the fourth, and the last several days since he said that, im beginning to see the truth of that because i dont think this gossip involving all this chaos of trump and cruz and kasich is adding up to any clarity. Your thinking . In talking to people across the spectrum, includi