On monday, mrs. Jane sanders joining us here in the studio to talk about the New York Primary. Hardball with Chris Matthews is next. Battle on broadway. Lets play hardball. Good evening, im Chris Matthews in washington. After a big loss in wisconsin this week, Hillary Clinton went on offense and fired a shot across Bernie Sanders bowel. He hit back showing he can more than defend himself. The fight kept up thursday when he taped an interview for fridays today show. She denied ever saying sanders was not qualified to be president. Friday morning, sanders called a truce, after two days of slamming qualifications, he took back what he said about clinton herself being unqualified. Here is what he said on the today show. Here is the truth. Ive known Hillary Clinton for 25 years. I respect Hillary Clinton. We were colleagues in the senate. On her worst day, she will be she would be an infinitely better president than either of the republican candidates. She is qualified. Of course. Hillary didnt want to let it go. She continued the war of wards. You may have heard senator sanders say im unqualified to be president. Well, seriously. Seriously, ive been called a lot of things over the years, but unqualified has not been one of them. This morning, he finally acknowledged that of course, he doesnt really believe that. This is all pretty silly. The question in this election should be who can actually get things done. Well, shortly after that, in a gaggle with the press, clinton too backed down, answering to reporters that yes, sanders was
qualified, is qualified. Any way, tad devine, sanders campaign, two term governor of pennsylvania supporting Hillary Clinton. Governor, Hillary Clinton, she was a little snagged up there, unable to end the war. She is still firing. Bernie stopped saying she was unqualified. She said oh, yeah, he said i was. No longer unqualified. But im going to keep fighting. Then something happened and she said okay, well call the truce. Whats going on . In fairness, secretary clinton said yesterday, chris, that Bernie Sanders was infinitely better than donald trump or ted cruz. She said that yesterday, which is essentially what senator sanders said about her. Both sides should understand that all theyre doing by calling each other liars, by saying unqualified or things like that, theyre feeding the republican propaganda machine, regardless of who the nominee is. Theyre for getting why they got
in the race in the first place. They go the in the race to have a progressive Supreme Court, end income inequality. To do something about universal health care, to create jobs by rebuilding the infrastructure. Those are the things that matter. Who is the president going to be, and look, weve done so well for so long compared to the republican campaign. It was a shame what happened here. And the problem with senator sanders taking back that Hillary Clinton is qualified, saying now, that quote that she is unqualified, those 30 seconds are there. If Hillary Clinton is the nominee and i believe she will be, thats going to be used by the republicans in the fall. Tad, why did tad devine, explain why he went that far . Well, because he did that on tuesday night, after a won a sweeping victory in wisconsin, the Clinton Campaign announced publicly through jeff zeleny on cnn that they will have a new strategy, it was called disqualify Bernie Sanders to
defeat them. All of the surrogates refusing to say whether or not Bernie Sanders was qualified. They launched surrogates to tack him on guns and foreign policy. They thought they were going to come into the New York Primary and blow him out. Even though comes from a small rural state, he is able to play the New York Primary game. Thats exactly what donald trump said when he put out the picture against heidi cruz. He did it first. This is 5yearold stuff. He did it first, or she did it first is exactly the trump defense. Chris, they were going to run us over with a truck here in new york. Okay, ive been through new york primaries before. I know what its like. Im very happy to hear secretary clinton has finally said the words that Bernie Sanders is qualified to be president. Okay, because saying he is better than donald trump, listen, ive got a 28yearold daughter, she is better than donald trump for president. That wasnt good enough. She is saying, he said it. Lets talk about the issues. There are big differences on big issues. We should debate them in new york. Governor, Hillary Clinton, i have a theory here. Excuse me, my theory is pretty blunt. To really upset the hillary campaign, to really turn this election around, he began it this week by winning in wisconsin. If he knocks out hillary at home, this is serious business. Losing at home is almost unforgiveab unforgiveable. You lose at home, youve lost. Isnt that why this campaign has turned tough, because Hillary Clinton is worried about Bernie Sanders beating her in new york . Isnt that why she has gotten tough . No, i dont think so. Lets assume Bernie Sanders were to win 51 of the vote in new york. He is not going to pick up nearly enough delegates to have a real path to victory. Most observers agree, there is no path to victory for Bernie Sanders. Look, i am a super delegate, as a super delegate, i will vote for the person who has the
highest combination of popular vote and secretary clinton has 2. 4 million more popular votes than Bernie Sanders. And the most elected delegates. She has 240 more elected delegates. Thats not going to change. It may go down, but its not going to change. So the super delegates arent going to haj. Shell win the majority of elected delegates. So look, i think thats all not necessary, and we shouldnt do things that hurt us in the fall. Look, if Bernie Sanders is the nominee, he is going to need the Hillary Clinton supporters. If Hillary Clinton is the nominee, she will need the Bernie Sanders supporters. We should keep that in mind or blow an opportunity that has been handed to us by the republicans. Lets take a look after what mr. Jeff weaver, the Campaign Manager for senator sanders had to say just recently in the last few hours. Here is what he said. He is keeping at this. He said clinton has made a deal with the devil. We all know what it means. Youve sold your soul to the devil. Here is what he is saying now. Lets watch. I think if you look at her record, if you look at her campaign, you know, her campaign is funded by millions and millions of dollars from wall street and other special interests. You know, she has made a deal with the devil and we know the devil wants his money in the end. So thats the kind of campaign she is running. She has supported these terrible trade deals, which have devastated American Manufacturing in this country, supported the war in iraq, continues to have a hawkish foreign policy, expanded isis throughout the middle east. He didnt get the truce word, did he, tad . That was early, chris. That was early this morning. That means he might have well said she is no damn good. What else does he have to say . You said this isnt going to be about person. But you can say its about issues, but basically he is damning her. Well, listen. He is. How you fund your campaign is an issue. Jeff is right about that. Deal with the devil . Listen, jeff will speak for himself. He is a former marine i am a former altar boy. Thats exactly right. Jeff made the points is a valid point. How you fund your campaign. She has numerous super pacs, okay, and in the last quarter, the biggest one raised 15 million from wall street. Thats a legitimate issue. She has a super pac that is we dont did barack obama make a deal with the devil . Were not running against barack obama. Answer that question. Answer that question. Sure, ill be happy to answer that question. The system of Campaign Finance in this country is corrupt. Fortunately now, Bernie Sanders can run a campaign by relying on small dollar contributions. I dont think we could have done it, president obama could have done it in 2008. The Technology Allows you to do it. If he was running today, he would probably not take a dime for super pacs, he would run outside the system, just likeBernie Sanders. Well, chris, first of all, i object to someone who is running for office 17 times, 15 2 record, that would get me about 22 million a year. Someone who has run for office 17 times, i have taken money from businesses and interests, and then made decisions directly adverse to their welfare, because i cared about the welfare of the people of pennsylvania or the people of philadelphia. Thats what Hillary Clinton did. Hillary clinton was a strong supporter of dodd frank, may not have been everything we wanted it to be, but wall street wanted to defeat dodd frank. He had taken money as say a senator, and yet she went ahead and did what was right to support dodd frank and get passed. You can take contributions. You dont make deals with the devil. You say to people, you give me money, ill listen to you. I will not necessarily do what you want. I did that in 36 years as a public official. Hillary clinton has done that. Barack obama has done that. And as to the trade deals, i assume that joe biden and secretary kerry also made a deal with the devil on trade, because they supported those same trade deals. Well, tad, are they all guilty with deals with the devil . Everybody supports the trade pack with the far east. You dont by the way take money from super pacs, but you allow them to help you. Youre talking to the greatest mayor in the history of philadelphia. What are you making from the point here . That he wasnt listen first your guy is using a broad brush against every politician around and you saying technology has changed. Where did you come up with that one . Thats pretty good. Chris, first of all, let me say what a great mayor and great governor and great party leader ed rendell was okay. Let me put that on the table. In 2016, we have a corrupt
system of Campaign Finance that became rotten in 2010 when the United StatesSupreme Court took all the boundaries off fundraising and allowed corporations to pour as much money as they want into super pacs. The system is rotten right now. It really is. Its dichb fr its different from the system we had in the past. Bernie sanders wants to end it. But by taking action. He has shown us a new way forward. Listen, i hope the dooep paremo party adopts what bernie is doing. Not by taking special interest money, but by relying on millions of people and funding this campaign. Thats what bernie is doing, and im very proud of that. Tad, i mean, i really do, we talk about Citizens United here. Thats the devil as far as im concerned. Governor, your last word here. I agree. Citizens united, it was a disgraceful decision and caused a lot of the problems. But Hillary Clinton has pledged to get rid of Citizens United, just as Bernie Sanders would. If the democrats dont win the election, were going to have more problems it seems to me. Thats a reasonable judgment. Any way, thanks so much, tad devine, great debate. I love the Technology Thing of yours. Really brilliant. I love the latest in the stateoftheart game of political argument. Thank you, governor. Everything we both said is true, about you. Coming up, the high takes, do or die in no. Bernie has the momentum. He is looking for a win. It could be break out time forp sanders if he gets it. What is john kasich up to . He is on the attack against cruz now. Making a play for perhaps number two and on a possible republican ticket with mr. Trump. I think thats what hell have to call him, mr. Trump. The hardball round table is here about something we dont know about the fight with bernie and hillary. Its crossed the bridges into
the city itself. Finally, let me finish with the wonderful phrase, which i really like, new york values. This is hardball, the place for politics. As a painter. And i just cant do that on my mac. Whewhat does it look like . Ss, is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student . Is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves . Is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the Natural World . Whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. Tiaa. Thiand being able to useve worked oa pen like thisk. On the screen directly with the image, it takes me back to my time as a painter. And i just cant do that on my mac. Weve got new numbers on the grand prize this election year. California, which votes june 7th. Lets go to the hardball scoreboard. According to field poll out there on the democratic side, Hillary Clinton is up. 6 point lead. Clinton 47, sanders 41. Not much a lead. It all could change in a few weeks. Well be right back. A deluge of digital records. Xrays, mris. All on account. Of penelope. But with the help of at t, and a network that scales up and down ondemand, this hospital can be ready. Giving them the agility to be flexible reliable. Because no one knows like at t. It was always just a hobby. Something you did for fun. Until the day it became something much more. And that is why you invest. The best returns arent just measured in dollars. Td ameritrade. Man 1 man 2 i am. Woman exmilitary . Man 2 four tours. Woman you worked with computers . Man 2 thats classified, maam. Man 1 but youre job was Network Security . Man 2 thats classified, sir. Woman lets cut to the chase, here. Man 1 whats youre assessment of our security . Man 2 [ gasps ] porous. Woman porous . Man 2 the Old Solutions arent working. Man 2 the world has changed. Man 1 meaning . Man 2 its not just security. Its defense. Its not just security. Its defense. Bae systems. When you looked at the calendar eight months ago, april 19th, could you have imagined back then that this would be
anything but a finish line and its kind of turned into a fire wall . You know, matt, i said from the very beginning, this is going to be a tough contest all the way through. And i did it because i remember 08, you know. I went the distance with then senator obama. And thats the way primary develop. Welcome back to hardball. Hillary clinton said shell distance in the democratic primary. It has gotten tough in new york, where both claim home turf. The latest National Average by the way shows Hillary Clinton with just a four point lead now. Just four points across the country, after all the delegates she has won. That will change if she gets a loss in new york. I really think so. If clinton manages to lose the state she represented for eight years in the u. S. Senate it will shift significantly. I believe. Were going to check it with our experts. Hi hi heidi, ill let you start off first. The one question, the wednesday morning after the New York Primary. Bernie has squeaked it. The national media, all in new york, goes nuts. She has been beaten at home and by then, the National Numbers will close to nothing. Im talking about the stakes. The National Numbers. Everything. Well, its a huge psychological shift, right. He has beat her in wisconsin, michigan, new york. Huge psychological shift. The delegate math doesnt change all that much, but you know what does change, bernie can then go to the super delegates and say look, especially in the states i carried, you need to come over and support me now. So that then leads to a mathematical, an actual mathematical shift that he can carry into a state like you mentioned, california, although, chris, i did look at the biggest delegate states that follow, like pennsylvania. We get there. New jersey, she is actually ahead way more than she is in new york. He could pick up connecticut. By the way, the national number, if that comes equal after new york, i look at this as a big, big win for him, and a big loss for her. And i think about the other way, its not as significant if she beats him. It is certainly significant if he wins. Well, here is the thing. She always starts out way ahead in these states. Until you get to the states, and its primary time. The problem that she has is that Bernie Sanders appears, and in fact, has all the momentum. He has won acceseven out of the he has the kids, the energy, the crowd, source, money as tad devine was saying. They do have what is the crowd source. The small donations. Small donations, amplified by the internet and social media. Thats where bernie is strong. Its not just he is pulling out 400,000 a
day or something. Its not just that he has young voters. He has the young technology. He has the way to amplify the power of small donations. Thats a new paradigm in not only campaigning. If he wins new york, everybody hasnt maxed up, now is your chance to double down. As you were saying, new york is the Media Capital not only of the United State