Transcripts For MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews 20181004

MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews October 4, 2018

Notably not interviewed, Christine Blasey ford, whose allegation prompted the investigation, nor did they talk to judge kavanaugh. There was one notable profile in courage today. I must say, north dakota democratic senator Heidi Heitkamp, whos locked in a very tough reelection battle out there, announced her decision to vote against kavanaugh. The process has been bad, but at the end of the day, you have to make a decision. And ive made that decision. And that decision will be what, senator . I will be voting no on judge kavanaugh. Well, in a statement, heitkamp noted she voted for justice neil gorsuch, but added, when i listened to dr. Ford testify, i heard the voices of women i have known throughout my life who have similar stories of Sexual Assault and abuse. Other democrats expressed frustration a that the fbi had not spoken to ford nor a host of other potential witnesses in connection with the probe. The most notable part of this report is whats not in it. It looks to be a product of an incomplete investigation that was limited, perhaps by the white house. We had many fears that this was a very limited process, having received a thorough briefing on the documents, those fears have been realized. Im not allowed to discuss it. The public cant see it. Its a complete sham. The investigation was a sham. They didnt interview all the potential eyewitnesss. They didnt interview all the corroborating witnesses. Im actually shocked. Im actually shocked. Okay, President Trump was briefed this afternoon or this morning, actually, on the contents of the report, which will not be made public. At least not officially. In a series of tweets, trump lamented what he called the harsh and unfair treatment of kavanaugh and the, quote, totally uncorroborated allegations. Well, obviously, they didnt get a chance to find them. In a second tweet, trump wrote, this is now the seventh time the fbi has investigated judge kavanaugh. If we made it 100, it would still not be good enough for the obstructionist democrats. Thats trump. Meanwhile, Mitch Mcconnell indicated his plans to move full speed ahead joining the president in defending kavanaugh. For goodness sake, this is the United States of america nobody is supposed to be guilty until proven innocent in this country. Ill be proud to vote to advance this nomination tomorrow. Well, the first procedural vote, which will test the power of those for kavanaugh will come tomorrow morning. There are still four key senators that remain publicly uncommitted. These are the ones were watching. Republicans Lisa Murkowski of alaska. Shes a strong person. Maines Susan Collins, arizonas jeff flake, and one democrat, west virginias joe manchin. Im joined right now by kasie hunt, nbc news capitol hill correspondent. Phil rucker, White House Bureau chief for the washington post. Kasie, i have a lot of hopes that maybe murkowski will show some leadership. She seems more like a leader than the others. How do you figure the order of succession in the Decision Making of those left to decide . Reporter chris, i think that your sense on Lisa Murkowski is correct. And she actually spent the afternoon here at the capitol, meeting with survivors of Sexual Assault and abuse. Many of whom came out of her office in tears, after having talked about their own experiences. She has very carefully avoided our cameras, so we havent spoken to her today. But everyone that ive talked to, all of my sources and senators in leadership who ive spoken to off the record suggest, or, excuse me, on background i should say, not off the record, have suggested that she may be more willing to potentially play a vote, a no vote. Now, Susan Collins, on the other hand, they tend to say the opposite. That she has been throughout this process looking for a way to vote yes. But we also dont know yet what her decision is going to be. Shes said she is going to have an announcement tomorrow. She spent a good chunk of the evening, she was one of the last people to leave the secure area, where the fbi report was. So i might put her on the other end of the spectrum. And then, jeff flake and joe manchin are real wild cards here. And i think that the dynamic that ive heard from my sources is that nobody wants to be the 50th vote. Nobody wants to be the person that makes or breaks this nomination. Joe manchin, i think, would prefer to be able to vote yes on kavanaugh from a political perspective, for him, its really a nobrainer and the way that this has come to the forefront over the last week has made it much harder for him in a race where he has previously felt pretty secure. But the reality is, if its a democrat that puts kavanaugh on the court, thats going to be an impossible position to be in, too. So its really kind of this bizarre game of chicken, where theyre all watching each other to see what theyre going to do. And i think that the dynamic is really very unpredictable at this point. And i also think that, you know, you could potentially see some cracks or fissures in the event that it does seem like this is going down. This is a difficult vote for some other members of the republican conference that were not even talking about, like, perhaps Senator Cory Gardner of colorado. I dont want to suggest that hes in play, but you know, this is a tough vote for somebody in a swing state like that. Lets talk about how the nomination can still be defeated. Youve got heitkamp, whos had the guts to be a profile in courage. Now youve got, it seems to me, with murkowski, if she moves against this nomination, will flake go with her . You know, im just not sure, chris. I dont know if you can im not sure if you can go that far. No one has been able to kind of get inside jeff flakes head, because, quite frankly, there was a time when he was a yes. He put out a statement saying, im going to back kavanaugh after hearing all of this, then he wavered and went into this fbi investigation. The person i spoke to most recently with the most position to know says, you know, nobody is inside his head, know one has any idea what hes going to do. Well, one person could be in his head. Hes clearly personally affected. That is Mitch Mcconnell when he agreed to go along with this week long shorthand investigation. Reporter yeah. Did he get a commitment from flake if he does this, hell vote yes, if he didnt find anything big . Reporter my reporting doesnt necessarily bear that out, chris, although, clearly, mcconnell felt as though this was a way that he could potentially get the votes he needed from this group of people. So there certainly was that level of understanding, but i dont think that there was any, you know, straight out commitment that this is fine, you know, well vote yes. Because, also, we dont know whats in the report. What are we hearing right now . Is that the protesters right now . Reporter theyre actually right over my shoulder. I think you can only really see the trees, but theyre in a trent. Theyre going to be here totally overnight. We could hear a little earlier Bernie Sanders very distinct voice. I spent a lot of time on the trail with Bernie Sanders, so this was giving me some flashbacks, but were told theyre going to camp out all night long until tomorrow morning, when we know that Mitch Mcconnell Just Announced that the vote will be tomorrow morning. Good for them. Senate republicans have seen the fbi report and argued it vindicated kavanaugh and the allegations against him and pressed to move forward on a vote. Senators who requested the supplemental fbi background check got what they requested and i am ready to vote. Because step back. You humiliated this guy enough and there seems to be no bottom if he would take a polygraph lets dunk him in the water and see if he floats. This is a search and destroy mission. This is not a search for the truth. And this man is qualified. And to put him through this type of a mess, just because they are unhappy that donald trump had the right to appoint him, is just plain wrong. Barbara, if this is a job application and weve been told thats for all of the republicans, for all of those weeks, of the actual earlier confirmation hearings, it was a job application, not a criminal investigation. Yet if its a job application and you have testimony that the guy is a belligerent drunk at times, when he drink s too much he gets very belligerent, dangerous to people, why didnt they go down that line of inquiry . It seems that would be one of the things you have to look at. It seems they want to have it both way. It seems like they are inadvertently confusing the American Public where guilty beyond a reasonable a doubt and presumption of innocence and all of those things. And that does matter when youre talking about taking away someones liberty. In this instance, its not taking away Brett Kavanaughs liberty. Its, should we be giving him the privilege and responsibility of sitting on the highest court of the land, which oversees the criminal justice system. And, if you have someone with a credible allegation of Sexual Assault in their past and other allegations, as well, like the one were getting from debora ramirez, why on earth would we want to taint the Supreme Court with someone like that, when there is a long line of other conservative judges who could equally be nominated to this court, who dont have that taint . Neil gorsuch, for example, made it through without these kinds of allegations. But the allegations also include, swetnick, you can argue whether shes a great witness or not, but she is talking about that should be investigated, this idea of getting women drunk, young girls drunk so he could have sex with them, with multiple partners, a thoughtful, deliberative process. And thats what cosby has been sent away for, rightfully, in prison right now. If this is true, its incredibly serious and looks like they didnt haveneven want to talk t. They didnt talk to swetnick. Barbara . Yes, and you know, again, it seems that the fbi was given a short leash, due this in less than a week, and had some limitations on who they should be talking to. There have been many people who could corroborate the story to have deborah ramirez, certainly listening to what Julie Swetnick had to say. If this is a quest for the truth, you would want them to ask questions of all of those people and provide all of that information. And i think they are gambling on the fact that theyre going to get a vote and going to get a confirmation. But that fails to account for, this is only going to be thorough if the senate says it is, because they have to be satisfied that theyve had a thorough investigation. And dont think this is the end of it. Those people are going to continue to come forward. I think we are going to see journalists telling their stories in the weeks and months to come. And do we want a Justice Kavanaugh and a Supreme Court to be forever tainted with these stories that didnt come out until later . Well, this afternoon, President Trump told reporters in minnesota that kavanaugh is, quote, doing well, whatever that means. This morning, Deputy Press Secretary ranj shah said they ae fully confident that they will vote to confirm kavanaugh. Heres raj. We are fully confident after reviewing this information senators are going to be comfortable voting yes. And press secretary Sarah Sanders tried to back charges that the white house had micromanaged the fbi investigation by limiting the list of witnesses. Pushes back on the fact that dr. Ford wasnt given ample opportunity to make her case and state her case has been living in a cave. You know, phil, ive watched this game all day today. The senate, led by Mitch Mcconnell, says, well, its the fbi who had to decide what was in that inquiry. They were the president told oh, its the fbi. Everybodys passing the buck about who limited this to a quickie three days. Yeah, but the white house had a lot of authority over this process. And talking are they admitting it . Well, talking to officials there today, the uncertainty that kasie described on capitol hill, the white house is not conveying. Theres a really high level of confidence, even in private conversations there, that this is pretty much a done deal. And what you see the president doing, hes got a rally tonight in minnesota. Hes trying to create signs of political momentum around the vote, create an environment where it becomes just so difficult, if not impossible for those three republican senators to end up voting no, even though theyre still deliberating about the vote, and it may not be as certain as the white house officials are trying to present. Ive heard it said that if collins, Susan Collins of maine, whos a republican of some independence, if she votes for this nomination, shes guaranteed a really rock em, sock em democratic opponent when she runs for reelection in 20. And if she votes against kavanaugh, shes potentially guaranteed a rock em, sock em republican primary challenge in her reelection. But thats the thats the dilemma shes facing. And i think the white house feels like collins and murkowski in particular may end up making a political calculation that they dont want to have to deal, a primary challenge in their own party, and vote for kavanaugh. At least, thats what the white house is counting on at this hour. But tomorrows a new day. Im thinking the road to hope here for those who oppose this nomination is murkowski, followed by flake, followed by collins, and maybe by manchin. Thats quite a road. Well see. Anyway, thank you very much, phil. Anyway, phil rucker, thank you. Kasie hunt, barbara mcquade. Coming up, five days and nine interviews. Why was the fbi background check on judge kavanaugh so limited in scope . Plus, a Yale Law School classmate of Brett Kavanaugh withdraws his support after watching his performance before the Senate Judiciary Committee Last week. And what is senator heitkamps brave stand today mean her reelection chances come up next month . And what does the kavanaugh fight mean for democrats chance of taking back the congress . Well see. Its up in the air right now. Finally, let me finish tonight with the constitutional role of the United States senate. Theyve got to fill it, now. And this is hardball, where the action is. Hardball, where the action is. Its a lot easier to make decisions when you know what comes next. If you move your old 401 k to a fidelity ira, we make sure youre in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. Oh and at fidelity, youll see how all your investments are working together. Because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. Just remember what i said about a little bit o soul things are just clearer. Not long ago, ronda started here. And then, more jobs began to appear. These techs in a lab. This builder in a hardhat. The welders and electricians who do all of that. The diner staffed up cause they all needed lunch. Teachers. Doctors. Jobs grew a bunch. What started with one job spread all around. Because each job in energy creates many more in this town. Energy lives here. In a kavanaugh antikavanaugh protesters descended on washington today, as weve said, as senators were briefed on the contents of that fbi report on kavanaugh. Lets watch this. [ chanting hey, hey, hey, ho, ho, kavanaugh has got to go ] well, after north dakota democrat Heidi Heitkamp planned she planned to vote no or nay on kavanaugh, the protesters took a break to thank her. And well be right back. Took a break to thank her. And well be right back. [ beep ] would you look at that . Unbelievable. [ heartbeat ] [ beep ] [ gasps ] [ heartbeat ] [ beep ] we have serious problems. [ heartbeat ] [ beep ] five seconds to mandatory abort. [ heartbeats ] 5. 4. 3. 2. 1. First man. Rated pg13. Experience the moon in imax. This is moving day with the best inhome wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. And this is moving day with Reliable Service appointments in a twohour window so youre up and running in no time. Show me decorating shows. This is staying connected with xfinity to make moving. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and twohour appointment windows. Click, call or visit a store today. So just to be clear, should the fbi interview all three of Brett Kavanaughs accusers . It wouldnt bother me at all. I think the fbi should interview anybody that they want, within reason. Should Brett Kavanaugh be interviewed by the fbi . I think so. I think its fine, if they do. Welcome back to hardball. Despite the president s word on monday that the fbi should have a free hand in conducting their Background Investigation of judge kavanaugh, theres mounting concern today, thursday, that the bureau didnt do a thorough job. Todays 46page report is the product of a fiveday inquiry, including actually, consisting of nine fbi interviews. Thats it. Neither Christine Blasey ford nor judge kavanaugh were interviewed at all, nor were numerous potential corroborating witnesses referred to the fbi by kavanaughs accusers. And several took their own unsolicited statements to the fbi, hoping theyd be heard. However, current and former fbi officials confirmed to nbc news yesterday that agents have not been permitted to talk to many of these people who want to talk to them. Likewise, bloombergs reported yesterday that the fbi hasnt interviewed Brett Kavan

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