Transcripts For MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews 20190829

MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews August 29, 2019

Opportunity to attack comey following the release of a Justice Department Inspector Generals report on his handling of memos, detailing his interactions with trump in the first weeks of his presidency. The Justice Department says it will not prosecute comey, but Inspector General Michael Horowitz criticized comey for violating fbi policy by releasing the memos to his personal attorneys and giving one to a friend who then leaked to it the New York Times. Harwood states, quote, former director comey failed to live up to his responsibility by not safeguarding Sensitive Information obtained during the course of his fbi employment, and by using it to create public pressure for official action. Comey set a dangerous example. One of those memos concerned a conversation between comey and trump when he said the president told him to end a probe into former National Security adviser michael flynn. And since firing comey in 2017, a move that ultimately set in motion the special counsel investigation, President Trump has repeatedly tried to argue that comey broke the law in releasing that information. In the meantime, no collusion, no obstruction. Hes a leaker. Comey is a leaker and he is a liar. And not only on this stuff. Hes been leaking for years. He gave it to a friend to leak classified information. Its all classified. It was totally classified. Comey, who by the way lied and leaked and also leaked classified information. Nothing happened there. You see comey lied to congress. Nothing happens. You see him leaking. Nothing happens. And this is leaking classified information. Well, comey is a liar and a leak. And thats obvious. Well, the ig report stated definitively that we found no evidence that comey or his attorneys released any of the classified information contained in any of the memos to members of the media. Well, today comey responded to the report writing on twitter, i dont need a public apology from those who defamed me, but a quick message with a sorry we lied about you would be nice. And to all those who have spent two years talking about the going to jail, me going to jail or being a liar and a leaker, ask yourselves why you still trust people who gave you bad info for so long, including the president. President trump ran a victory lap of his own writing today. Perhaps never in the history of our country has someone been more thoroughly disgraced and excoriated than james comey in the just released Inspector Generals report. He should be ashame of himself. Thats trump talking. For more im joined by joyce vance, former u. S. Attorney, joy ainsley, glenn kirschner, former federal prosecutor and eugene robinson, of course columnist for the washington post. Julia, is there anything in this thing . Because i get the sense. I was a speech writer to a president. We were told dont even take copies of the speech you wrote home with you. Okay. We generally honored that. Is this kind of thing . Is it that level of seriousness that he took memos from his own conversation home . Thats part of it. The Inspector General horowitz definitely slaps comey on the wrist for taking things home that he shouldnt have. But he also says he sets a bat precedent for fbi employees who now think they can leak information in order to set in progress some kind of official action. But for people who iowa been talking to, Justice Department employees and former Justice Department employees today, they say horowitz completely misses the context here. And its like if he were to charge him and he referred it to the Justice Department who declined to charge him, but its like punishing someone for speeding on their way to put out a fire. Thats the way a lot of people see it here. And the idea that what the information that he gave was confidential, which is the lowest form of classification, no ones been charged for leaking confidential information in the modern era, the idea that if you were to punish someone for that, that would be like charging them for going 58 in a 55 on the way to put out that fire. I guess one question, glenn, what is the head of the fbi supposed to do when he witnesses firsthand the president of the United States committing obstruction of justice by telling him to end the case against his buddy . Chris, he is supposed to follow fbi procedure, rules and protocol. When i looked at the ig report, i already knew everyone was going to declare victory, even though everyone really lost, including the American People. The biggest loser, President Trump. Why . Because he lied to the American People over and over again. You just played it in your opening. He is saying comey is a leaker of classified information. Wrong, lie. He is a liar. No, he didnt lie to anybody. He is a criminal. No, hes not a criminal. How do we know hes not a criminal . Bill barr aint charging him with a crime. Do you think bill barr would have charged whim a crime if he committed a crime . Maybe even if he didnt . Why do you think bill barr is standing there as the president s man on so many other occasions, his lawyer, basically, didnt move here . Because even bill barr i guess has some kernel of decency and lawabidingness in him such that he is not going to charge an innocent person, somebody who didnt commit a crime. Comey didnt commit a crime. But heres what he did do. He went with his gut. And he violated fbi rules, procedures and protocol. And we can all say yeah, but the ends justify the means. It was a really righteous thing he was trying to do. But if thats how we governed ourselves as government officials, we all get to violate procedures and protocols if we think the cause is really righteous, thats a recipe for governmental chaos. So i think everybody loses here. Joyce, with this president is going to do, of course, he already doing today. Arguing moral equality. Used to see that with the soviet union like were all people on the hard left would say oh, were just as bad as they are, blah, blah, blah. He is trying to say now what this guy is did is worse than i did therefore what this guy did is criminal. The whole enterprise, the whole russian impeachment effort, everything that comey set in the works here is criminal itself. In fact, that proves that im an innocent man all the way, from the beginning to now. Joyce . You know, this is a real mess, chris. Its a real mess. And what the American People deserve here is clarity. Theyre not going to get that as long as trump is committed to playing some sort of a game of president ial oneupmanship. Whos right . Glenn just nails it. But joyce, who is right . Is it equally bad or what . Well, its clear that trump does a lot worse here. Trump, after all, is in the oval Office Sharing classified information with the russian ambassador. Hes at maralago talking about military action in front of guests, and the list of horribles trump takes the prize. But comey does violate doj policy. That is highly problematic. At the same time, im sympathetic to the context. This was the president of the United States. The one person that no one can say is at fault, the one person that no one can fire. And comey cease him trying to curry favor with Law Enforcement, trying to end an investigation into someone whos engaged in wrongdoing. He is in a tough position. History can judge him. Im not going to. The presidesenator lindsey g toadie called a stunning rebuke of the former director of the fbi. This is the first of what i expect. This is senator Lindsey Graham talking. This is the first of what i expect will be several more ugly and damning rebukes of senior doj and fbi officials regarding their actions and biases toward the Trump Campaign of 2016. And House Oversight Committee Ranking member, Ohio Republican congressman jim jordan, a tea partier wrote now we know why comey didnt want to prosecute clinton. He didnt see a problem handling Sensitive Information after clearing her. He did it too. Comey, like clinton thinks hes above the law. The Lindsey Graham quote, its like something out of orwell. Its like precrime. With know what the crimes are going to be, right . Oh really . Youre going to see this and youre going to see that. Comey is a difficult figure because a lot of people have problems with the way he handled the Hillary Clinton investigation, the july 2016 long statement. You know, the laundry list of awful things she did, but were not going to prosecute the october surprise, and you know, so hes been going with his gut for a while. And he got a slap on the wrist for it. It was probably an appropriate slap on the wrist. I mean, i would have slapped him on the wrist for other things before this. And i do understand it is like he was speeding to put out a fire. You have the president of the United States committing obstruction of justice, basically. And so what are you going to do . Youre going to do something. I just have to say too, as a journalist, i rely on people to give me information that is not top secret or secret, but is confidential, Law Enforcement sensitive. So what does this do for people Going Forward . Does it create a Chilling Effect for them . Exactly. And were all shocked that somebody in the fbi leaked information . Like once in history . You know how we knew hitler was coming in because people in the British Government leaked stuff to churchill so he could put out about the military buildup by the germans. Sometimes there is a justifiable cause here. Meanwhile, the Justice Department is reportedly still weighing potential charges against a former fbi Deputy Director andrew mccabe, the man who authorized the investigation into trumps ties with russia. The New York Times reported monday, this monday that federal prosecutors are in the final stages of deciding whether to seek an indictment against mccabe on charges of lying to federal agents. According to the doj, mccabe violated Department Policy for authorizing a leak to the journal about the Clinton Administration and lacked candor in discussion it afterwards. Hmm, lacking can do inin ining crime these days . That looked like the work of trump. He is currently suing the Justice Department and the fbi. He accuses President Trump of hatching an unconstitutional plan to purge employees he saw as disloyal to his administration. Glenn, i mean, lets keep it simple here. There are two sides here. There is trump and those who have watched him and caught him in the act. And sometimes those who caught him in the act broke the rules. Sometimes maybe the ends do justify the means. Its just if we are a government where we allow that to be our governing principles, were in deep trouble. But on the mccabe front real quickly, levee that you were laughing when people are accusing him of lacking can door. Wouldnt bit the ultimate prosecutorial irony if bill barr was prosecuting somebody for lacking candor . Mr. No obstruction, no collusion . I do think it looks like mccabe may have committed some offenses of lying during the course of an official investigation, and thats going to be a difficult call. Ive always said as prosecutors, were never more vital than when we are declining to bring charge. Lets put it all together tonight and bring together this question of how this latest evidence and one looks to be a purge of these. There is going to be a number of these attacks on people who brought about the decline of the president here, sort of like the carter expedition. Bringing up king tut. Theyre all going to pay for this. Let me go to joyce on this, because its a political question. But it seems to be the question of our time. Right now youve got about 135 democrats, a clear majority in the house of representatives who are talking impeachment. They want a formal resolution. They want something done. My question is this effort by trump, this counterattack on comey, apparently one coming on mccabe, is this going to put out that fire for the president . Is he going to look like he gets through this . Mainly for his own luck. I think luck is getting through this and the clock. But this, is this going to make it harder for the demonstrates to put together a resolution of 218 votes to begin a resolution of impeachment . As a political matter, it should only fuel the fire towards impeachment because this is the point the countrys at. The president is just completely disobeying the law. He has taken an oath to uphold the law. He has taken an oath to use due care in executing the law. And now here he is saying im going to engage in political retaliation against people who investigated not just me but investigated russian interference into our elections. If the president can be that lawless, if he can exact a political price from people in Law Enforcement who are trying to do their jobs, Congress Needs to be taking a hard look at that conduct. It should rush them towards the impeachment conclusion instead of backing them off from it. As long tie walks past, the tie gets longer with his crimes. How do you see it all coming together . If youre writing the history book of 2019 going into 2020, how do they come together . Democrats potential investigation, potential impeachment action and the president counterattack . In terms of ground for impeachment, i think were way past the point of guilding the lilly, right . If there is not enough on the record now, its not a question of having enough on the record to start at the very least an impeachment inquiry, a formal impeachment inquiry, if not hearings and the whole nine yards. Its that have become a political question whether or not the house does it. So as morehouse members come forward and you know, then maybe something will happen. But the person we ought to have sitting at this table to answer the questions, nancy pelosi. I mean, you have to get there. The country hasnt moved yet. Read the Mueller Report and there are plenty. The monmouth poll, the last thought, it may be discouraging to progressives and me, is it a good idea to begin impeachment inquiry . Just to begin one . Is it a good idea . 41 of the country. Is it a bad idea . And i guess that word good and bad implies politics, morality, everything mixed in. 51 havent made the case yet. You know politicians. Theyre going to look at the numbers. Because a third of the country doesnt like trump, and the rest of the country is watching dancing with the stars. And im not knocking them. But not everybody is interested. Theyre not. Their attention has not been brought into this. Think about how long this has gone on too. People are burned out. Im not knocking anybody. Everybody has to be a political obsessive person like us. But it would be nice if they were. Thank you, joyce vance, thank you julia ainsley, as always, glenn kirschner. You guys a s ars are great. Youve been following this and pushing this to the edge of truth. Gene robinson, cleanup hitter, big ball, four bagger. Coming up, james mattis reportedly found President Trump to have this is amazing stuff limited cognitive ability. This is what you talk about in a dementia case. Limited cognitive ability. And dubious character. Thats in a new report that describes mattis reasons for resigning of secretary of defense and his grave concern about some of this president , well, this president. And we finally have the debate by the way. Most of us have wanted. On one stage, ladies and gentlemen, biden in the middle, bernie and warren on either side. Senator Amy Klobuchar is coming on tonight. She is going to be on that stage too. She joins us live about the importance of this third big debate when its only ten of them, only one night. But get this. A threehour debate. Get your pizza ready. But first, the latest update from the National Hurricane center. Right now there is the map, Hurricane Dorian is north of the Virgin Islands in puerto rico. Its a category 1 right now. But is it expected to reach category 4, which is really dangerous when it reaches landfall . And there it is, right around winter park, florida. Right in the middle there, which is now expected happen on monday. Earlier President Trump announced he is rescheduling a trip so he can stay in the United States. He is sending vp pence over to do the work. Thats what Vice President s do. Dont they . They go to funerals and go where the president doesnt want to go. Back after this. m off to collee and im not gonna be around. Im worried about my parents retirement. Oh, dont worry. Voya helps them to and through retirement. Dealing with todays expenses. Like college. While helping plan, invest and protect for the future. So theyll be okay. Without me . Um. And when we knock out this wall imagine the closet space . Yes oh hey, son. Yeah, i think theyll be fine. Voya. Helping you to and through retirement. Thand find inspiration who win new places. Ct. Leading them to discover were woven together by the moments we share. Everything you need, all in one place

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