I i took his buddy away from him. Me. How does that sit with me. Im chuck todd and joining me for inside analysis this sunday morning are, the New York Times david brooks. Eugene robinson of the washington post. Pauline cooper of the New York Times and jerry sy of the wall street journal. Welcome to sunday. Its meet the press. From nbc news in washington this is meet the press with chuck todd. Good morning. This is the scene outside the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston South Carolina this morning where the congregation is gathering for the fis selves since First Service since a gunman murdered nine people there. The victims, reverend clementa pinckney, shah rhonda singleton, Tywanza Sanders with be ethyl lance, reverend Daniel Simmons sr. , depain middletondoctor sue si jackson and cynthia hurd. It brings back other memories notorious incidents. Of course those killing of thee civil rights activists in june in 1964 in mississippi. But in charleston the process of healing has already begun. That was shown when family members of the victims showed such remarkable dignity at a hearing for the killer, Dylann Storm Roof on friday. Well hear from the family of one of wednesdays victims in a moment. But first my colleague ron allen is outside mother emanuel this morning. Ron, tell me about the scene out there on what looks like a very nice sunny sunday morning. Reporter it is, chuck, but it is also a very emotional time, a very disturbing time a very powerful moment. There have been people gathering here outside the church throughout the weeks as this horrific incident happens paying their respects so much public mourning, grief and sorrow. This is also a time for healing and to celebrate the lives of those nine souls lost whose names you just read. Theres also a sense of history here because this church has existed, this congregation, for some 200 years. At the other times it was at the forefront of slave international insurrections. Martin luther king jr. Visited and worshipped here. Reverend pinckney stood up for social justice. Charleston is not far from where walter scott was allegedly shot and killed by a North CharlestonPolice Officer a year ago. Celebrating those today who lost their lives and trying to begin to move this community forward. A real sense that this could be a turning point for this community if not the rest of the nation as well. Ron, charleston has been amazing in all this ron allen, thanks very much. Reverend Daniel Simmons sr. Was one of the victims of the horrific attack on wednesday night at bible study. He not only served parishioners in multiple South Carolina churches, including of course at emanuel a. M. E. He also served this country during the vietnam war. His family who has lost a man described as gentle and humorous joins us now, including along today simmons who faced the man charged with her fathers death in court and told him hate wont win. Thank you, simmons family, for joining us and i joanin in with the entire country in offering condolences. A hate wont win. Why was it important for you to send that message in Court Last Week . Well earlier this week when all of the family spoke, i was actually inspired by some of the other families who immediately forgave the suspect when they had the opportunity to speak to him. And that made me think of how strong love is and, although my grandfather and the other victims died at the hands of the hatred from this man, the love of the community and the love of christ and just the love of all of the families for the victims was so overwhelming that it outweighed the hate that he had for them. Daniel tell me about your dad. My dad was a loving father. He was a great inspirational leader. He cared deeply for his family his community, his faith, and he loved god. What would he say how the community should respond to this horrific attack . What do you think he would say to you if he were here to sort of bring the Community Together . First of all, i would like to thank the city of charleston. How they have come together and shown unity and love he would be so overwhelmed with how everyone has been unified to act on one accord. My grandfather really loved charleston and one of our best memories of him was coming down two summers ago and he took us on this grand tour of charleston. He just kept talking about how great the people of charleston were and we saw that. We saw that this week. Alana, a lot of people want to use this incident to have a bigger conversation, to try to do something, racial reconciliation, guns theres a lot of issues that people want to grab on to. What do you want the country to take away from this and what do you want the country to be having and our political leaders to be having a conversation about . Well we elect not to talk about politics or policies or race issues at this time. At this time we just want to focus on our grand father and the other victims and making sure that the communities and the families heal and move on from this tragedy. Daniel the importance of his faith. The importance of faith to everybody in that room that is mourning your father. Explain it. Its easily explained. Its love. Yeah. Thats a good answer. We love each other. We love our grandfather and the outpour of love from the community and from the officials, from our community in hampton roads, virginia its just been so overwhelming that its given us all of us, i would like to say, a grace that you know is past understanding. Your family is quite an example for all of us in this country. Reconciliation forgiveness, love faith, unbelievable. Charleston has been a great example to the rest of the country as well. We just really really appreciate how everyone has come together and, like people of all races, all religions, genders, orientations, at the prayer vigil we went to friday night, everyone was there and it was just so overwhelming and just so wonderful to see everyone coming together. Not to bash or to talk about the suspect, but to celebrate the lives and to heal together. Well, its too bad that it took a tragedy like this to make that happen. But perhaps if this is what comes out of it maybe were a Better Society for it. Thank you, simmons family. Thank you. Im joined now by the democratic congressman from South Carolina james clyburn. Of course welcome back to meet the press. Congressman, my condolences. Thank you very much for having me. Thank you very much. These folks were constituents but they were personal friends. Tell me about some of your friendships. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. Speaking with his family he and i are the same age. The last time that i did a Morning Service at emanuel, i think he was the pastor there at the time. I have gotten to know his family very very well. Inlaws or constituents. Pinckney. This guy was just absolutely the salt of the earth. I first met him when he was a student here at Allen University in columbia and of course his hometown home church all in my congressional district. Emanuel is just one block outside my congressional district. But he and i had a very close personal relationship. Malcolm graham who has been on various shows this morning, his sister cynthia, is my daughters was one of my daughters best friends. She was a librarian, like my wife. And theres so much. Middleton. Her father. He called himself my a. M. E. Campaign manager. He was just a great guy. So i know all of these people in a very personal way. Congressman, youre from a generation that was in the middle of the civil rights movement. You saw the pain and the protests of the 60s. Some of these attacks that took place in the 60s. Did you think this was at all possible that Something Like this could happen in the 21st century . Unfortunately, chuck, i did. I have been saying for some time now to my friends in the Congressional Black Caucus will tell you i have been saying to them that there is a rightward drift in the country that i think is going too far. People get emboldened by all of this. We hear all this discussion about the confederate battle flag. What is so interesting about that chuck, is that that is not the Confederate Flag. Thats a battle flag that flies in front of the state house. That is a flag of rebellion. We would not be having this discussion if that were the Confederate Flag or the flag of the Confederate States of america because that flag is not a symbol of hate. So when you see the resurrection of this a young man 21 years old, wearing all of these apartheid things on his shirt. Burning the United States flag and glorifying the elongated version of the battle flag certainly you are created this climate that allowed that to happen. Several years ago you led a compromise effort on the flag. Democratic president ial candidates were threatening boycotts and you were trying to be the peacemaker back then of saying lets find a compromise on that flag. Looking back do you wish you had just pushed harder around said you know what . No. Shouldnt have compromised. No sir. If they had followed the compromise, we would not be here. Compromise was to put that flag in front of the Office Building next to the way it happened statue. What happened was when some people rejected the compromise the legislature out of defiance put that flag where it is today in front of the state house. That is not what the compromise was. The compromise was to put it on the back side of the state house out of public view so it would not have any appearance of sovereignty. Thats not what with the legislature did. I wish they would come back. Theyre coming back here to do the budget. They can very well take it up. They keep saying it takes twothirds to bring it down. That may be true but it only takes a simple majority to get rid of that twothirds law. Thats a very interesting way to put it. Ill leave it there. Congressman clyburn, always a pleasure. Thanks for coming on meet the press this morning and again, my condolences. I know it is a rough, rough sunday morning in church today. Thank you so much for having me. The panel is here the New York Times david brooks author of the road to character. Eugene robinson of the washington post, a native of georgeburg, South Carolina. Helene cooper, correspondent for the New York Times. Gene, this is your home. Yeah it is. My whole other side of the family is from charleston. I had a great, great grandfather who had a Blacksmith Shop around the corner from where that Church Stands today so it is personal. Just to what congressman clyburn said just now just very quickly on the flag issue, you know when that flag was first flown at the state house in columbia. 19 this is very important 1961. Not 1861. Exactly. 1961. And why . Well it was essentially where forgive the metaphor but it was a middle finger directed at the federal government. It was flown there as a symbol of massive resistance to racial desegregation. Period. It was all this nonsense about honoring the valor of southern manhood 150 years ago. They didnt have any urge to do that for a century after the civil war. It was only after brown v. Board, after little rock after desegregation began that south carolinians and they put up the flag on the state house that other states in the south adopted the battle flag as part of their state flags. So it was massive resistance. Let me put up the two flags. As youve heard congressman clyburn talk about, that one is not actually the Confederate Flag. The actual flag of the confederacy is the one on the left with the circle, stars. This is what is known as the Confederate Flag today is actually the battle flag of the Northern Virginia army led by robert e. Lee that was sort of adopted as the symbol in the 60s. David brooks you write about character, morality. Your reaction to all this. I guess i didnt think in the 21st century we were going to have racebased massacres. Well there were two sides in the week. The master which was the shocking side but i thought the family a he reaction and what we just saw at the top of the show was an equally newsworthy event. Somebody used the phrase practice grace that surpasses understanding. To see the forgiveness, the natural human reaction is to breed hatred with hatred revenge by revenge. Thats the natural genetic reaction. What we saw in the courtroom and just now was lives transformed by faith, People Living out their faith, people walking the walk and it is an example to the rest of us first of all, those of us in politics there are these petty feuds and here are these families that have forgiven that . Donald trump was the story earlier this week. Could there be anything more opposite of wanting to discuss in america youre absolutely right. I just thought thats an example of beautiful role faith can play in private and public life and just something that should be seared into our minds. This is not part of our nbc news wall street journal poll. We have this online poll we just asked specifically symbolism. Does it symbolize southern pride or racism. Split right down the middle 49 49 . I wonder if there is an education process when it comes to the confederate battle flag. We could be talking about how wonderful charleston has been or we could be talking about the flag. Were talking about the flag. I think people in South Carolina have to really be is asking themselves is that the conversation we want to have or not. That number also reminded me of something weve seen in polling over the years which is that white people tend to like to think that racial issues have been put behind us. Africanamericans do not think that and the split comes out over and over again. Can i just tell you, helene, if josh dubois wrote this in the daily beast about what jerry just brought up. The question now is will we convince ourselves the dilution is that this killer is the only one whos sick or will we examine our National Conscience and finally take steps to become well. One of those steps has to be White Americans having a conversation about white culture. He goes on to say we always say we got to have blacks and whites having a conversation together, blacks need to have a conversation but we never do look at White America to look inward. No, we dont. I thought it was an extraordinary essay. I was glad to see that he wrote that. I think it is something that we probably i dont know that im necessarily the person to be talking about White America having conversations at their dinner table but i think it is something that we as a media dont really call on when we talk about having a conversation about race. We talk about blacks and whites having a conversation about race. I know when i first got lirdhired by the wall street journal and i had not really been very far south before. I remember driving i was hired in the Atlanta Bureau of the wall street journal, driving across the border into georgia and realizing at the time this was 1994 and the Georgia State house had the Confederate Flag on it. A is a black woman i blanched. When which see that battle flag for me it is a symbol of hatred. So it is very hard for me to cross that bridge and try to understand what i understand that a lot of people in the south believe that this is heritage. But its just and im just as a black woman i see that and it is a tough one for me. Were going to pick up this conversation a little bit later in the show. When we come back were also going to pick up the other subject thats been brought up after this massacre and thats guns. This is a unique look though the a the issue of gun violence in america. It is a video of inmates who committed murder talking about their regrets about ever picking up a firearm. And they say to themself if im careful, if im careful then i can reach this good thing as long as nothing bad happens. And then i happened to him. Bennys the oldest dog in the shelter. He needed help all day so i adopted him. When my back pain flared up, we both felt it. I tried tylenol but it was 6 pills a day. With aleve its just two pills, all day. Now im back aleve. All day strong. [ female announcer ] it balances you. It fills you with energy. And it gives you what you are looking for to live a more natural life. 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Our nbc producer volunteered to do a video on his own. The circumstances you are about to see are very different from the racist violence in charleston. In this case the inmates are africanamerican that youre going to hear from. But their lessons remain important. We simply ask you to look at this via colorblind issue thats a