Judiciary committee on thursday. My guests this morning, republican senator david purdue of georgia and democratic senator patty murray of washington state. Plus how serious would Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein about secretly recording President Trump any trying to remove him from office . And does this give the president more ammunition in his fight with Robert Mueller . Theres a lingering stench and were going to get rid of that, too. Also my sitdown with secretary of state mike pompeo. The North Koreans been honest about their Nuclear Program . Finally, our brandnew nbc news wall street journal poll on President Trump and the battle for control of congress. Joining me for insight and analysis are chris matthew, host of hardball on msnbc. Helene cooper, pentagon correspondent for the new york times. Jonah goldberg, Senior Editor at National Review and National Reporter for politico. Welcome to sunday, its meet the press. From nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is meet the press with chuck todd. Good sunday morning. It was in 1991 when Clarence Thomas path to confirmation was interrupted by anita hill with Sexual Harassment in the workplace. Helping to usher in 1992s year of the woman at the ballot box. As Time Magazine illustrated, the specter of the thomashill hearing now hang over Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh. Now Christine Blasey ford accused him of sexually assaulting her at a party. When they were teenagers. Late yesterday, ford and the committee tentatively agreed she would testify on thursday. Theyre still working out the details for what could be one of the National Stop what youre doing events and watch. Of note, as of last night, four people that ford had said were at the party with her including kavanaugh have said they have no recollection of being there. The kavanaugh nomination is issue one for conservative and evangelicals and there is fear that if kavanaugh goes down republican candidates could play a steeper price in november than theyre already facing which brings us to our nbc news wall street journal poll this morning. Republicans already are good reason to be worried about november. Our poll found among registered voters they prefer democrats by a whopping 12 points, 5240 and if youre a close follower of the nbc news wall street journal poll youll know thats the significant margin and last month the margin was eight points and by the way, a month before that it was six points. As for President Trump, his numbers are remarkably steady. 52 of registered voters disapprove of his performance and 44 approve. Its exactly where he was last month, 5244. As one of our pollsters put it, these numbers are, quote, beyond weak for republicans and americans are trying to send a signal that theyre not satisfied with the way things are going in washington and all of which helps explain how theyre watching the kavanaugh story with one eye on his prospects and the other on their own in november. Brett kavanaugh, fantastic man. He was born for the u. S. Supreme court. He was born for it, and its going to happen. Reporter with judge Brett Kavanaughs confirmation hanging in the balance. Do you have any response to Christine Ford . Mr. Trump abandoned his uncharacteristic restraint tweeting, i have no doubt that if the attack on dr. Ford was as bad as she says, chargers would have been brought by her or her loving parents. Republican Susan Collins, a crucial swing vote fired back. I was appalled by the president s tweet. California professor Christine Blasey ford alleges that kavanaugh sexually assaulted her at a house party in the early 1980s telling the washington post, he pinned her to a bed, groped her and tried to pull off her clothing. When she tried to scream he put his hand over her mouth. She clearly believes this was an attempted rape and were it not for the severe intoxication of Brett Kavanaugh she would have been raped. Kavanaugh has denied the allegations saying i have never done anything like what the accuser describes to her or to anyone. And Senate Republicans are pressing forward with the nomination. Dont get rattled by all of this. Were going to plow right through it and do our job. Mcconnell does not yet have the votes. By the way, there are, like, seven of us that are undecided. Its not just me. Privately, many republicans worry the partys push to put kavanaugh on the court could come at a steep, political cost. In the nbc news wall street journal poll, opposition to kavanaugh is growing among suburban women, women over 50 and independents. 1992 became the year of the woman. A wave of Democratic Women won office after anita hills grilling on capitol hill. Theres still a lot of holes in the testimony. Now some republicans worry history is repeating itself. I think this woman, whoever she is is mixed up. On friday, the whyididntreport became the number one trending topic on twitter and already some republican candidates are stumbling. Ruth Bader Ginsburg came out that she was groped by abraham lincoln. These are teenagers who drunk according to her own statement, they were drunk and nothing evidently happened in it all even by her own accusation. Again, it was supposedly an attempt or something that never went anywhere. Joining me now is republican senator david purdue of georgia. Senator purdue, welcome back to meet the press, sir. Good morning, chuck. Let me start with a basic question here. What do you hope to learn from thursdays hearing of judge kavanaugh and dr. Ford . First of all, i think senator grassley has done a great job of trying to accommodate dr. Ford in getting this new information before the committee. I hope that we will get to the truth, and i think thats what the person people deserve and thats what were trying to do this week. I hope that both judge kavanaugh is dr. Ford get an open hearing. I fully expect that this week. How are you going to decide who is telling the truth if it really is the testimony of dr. Ford, the testimony of judge kavanaugh. We dont have anything else to work with here. How will you determine credibility in your mind. You do have other information. You have four other people that claim they have no recollection of the event, but what ive done in a situation like this and look at it in a holist being manner and look at the pattern over time and the look at the people giving that information and their own personal credibility and thats what we will do hopefully as we get this information before us. Is there anything dr. Ford could say that would change your mind about supporting judge kavanaugh . Look, these are serious allegations. I hope dr. Ford can be put in a comfortable situation where she can provide the information. This is a democracy. We have a judicial system and we also have innocent until Proven Guilty and so my view is that we need to hear from both parties and make sure that we do it in a timely manner. Weve already waited three months to get this information since the information was provided to senator feinstein and its time to get this hearing and bring it before the American People. Its interesting you bring up innocent until Proven Guilty. This is the standard, this is about a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court. This is about someone who has to decide the constitutionality of laws that impact all of americans. Do you think the burden of proof in some ways, should be higher or lower when you consider the job that judge kavanaugh is interviewing for . I think the burden here, chuck, is to find the truth, just like it is in any courtroom in our land and thats what were about to do. Weve had people this man has had six fbi investigations. This isnt the first time hes been fully vetted. Not oneonone specific charge. Do you think at this point, though, you would want at least the comfort of the fbi having looked into this even if its for a tenday period at this point . Theyve done that. Their job is not to determine who is telling the truth, but to make sure the issue is brought before the body looking at it and thats the Judiciary Committee at this point. This information was made public through senator feinstein. The way i look at it is the fbi has done it. Their role in this case is not to determine who is telling the truth and its to make sure that the senate has the information. You dont think there is an Additional Investigation to at least establish that the party happened and establish some more facts, have an fbi agent interview, perhaps some of the other people that dr. Ford says were at that house party . Part of what the fbi is supposed to do is to make sure that they determine that this is an issue and to make sure that they bring it before the committee weve had precedence on this before and in this case theyve done their duty and right now the only people who will determine who is telling the truth in this issue are the United States senators. Were you in the private sector before you joined politics and you ran fortune 500 companies. And i have no doubt you faced similar issues perhaps in leadership. How did you handle those . How did you determine truth . Sometimes it is an allegation and a person that you may think theyre telling the truth, but they can no longer manage their they can no longer fulfill their duties in their job because maybe theyve lost credibility, fair or not. How would you handle a situation like that and how did you handle it in the private sector . I did have situations like this. As far as 30 years ago we started having Training Programs inside our companies to make sure that peoples individual rights were protect and the so forth, but when we had situations of allegations like this we primarily made sure that the information, as best we can determine, was presented people making the decision. You look at the credibility of the people giving the information and the pattern of behavior and you take a holistic view of this to get to a heartlevel, gutlevel determination about who is telling the truth and thats what will happen in each one of the senators cases as they listen to the information this coming week. I fully expect well get to a decision this week and move on, chuck. Does Public Opinion matter to you if more people oppose his nomination or more people dont believe him. Should that factor into your Decision Making on this . There are two issues there. First of all, i dont put a lot of confidence in these polls. These are the same polls that had me losing by as much as 10 in my race three or four years ago and we won by more than eight points and had trump losing. So im not sure these polls clearly reflect the opinion of the American People. I believe right now the information that the American People are getting is somewhat limited because its coming through this central media in washington and not all of this has come out yet. We will get all of the information in the senate this week, hopefully. Well hear from both sides and well take that into consideration and well make our adjudication. Are things being rushed a little bit because of the november election deadline . I ask that because i know you have said we want to move on, with this and we are in day 75 of the nomination and i want to put up a chart of the current members of the Supreme Court and three of them went on longer, alito, elena kagan. Whats wrong with taking a couple extra weeks to make sure we get this right . If you will cite that statistic, you ought to cite the fact that ginsburg was confirmed in 42 days and got 96 votes. That was up on my chart as well and we have three members in the court that took longer and were not in an unusual situation. Theres no rush here. Were following this very similar timetable that we did in earlier situations where similar allegations were made. If we dont have all of the information this week i have total confidence that senator grassley will take his time and make sure we get all of the information we need. There is no rush to judgment. I think any objective person, chuck, looking at the way senator grassley has handled this, they will walk away thinking that he has done everything he can to make sure that this information comes before the senate and that this person is treated with all of the respect she is due. Senator purdue, i will leave it there for now. Senator, republican from georgia, thank you for coming on and sharing your views. Thanks, chuck. Joining me now with another perspective is patty murray from washington state. Senator murray, welcome to meet the press. Great to be here, chuck. I remember covering your race and it was the reason you stated for running was your reaction to the anita hill hearings and i remember a lot of people didnt give you much of a chance and youve now been a United States senator since 1992. Correct. You said this about the republicans 27 years later that the Judiciary Committee is leading us down the exact same place and an even worse one. How do you think worse . I think one of the things that i remember from the anita hill hearings was the way she was treated by United States senator, that she was presumed that she was lying, that it was a fantasy, that she was making it up. Thats how the questions came from the United States senators and she was never given a full opportunity to be believed from the start. I sense that again, as i hear a number of the comments, the majority leader saying were going to plow right through it as if it was a petty thing. We have to deal with this hiccup. That kind of conversation is exactly what leads to many people in this country, women and men saying they dont get it. Particularly now in the me too movement. They have to speak out and it doesnt have to be a hidden thing in the past and they have to not tell anybody. The message that its a hiccup or were going to plow through this is exactly what they dont want to hear today. Its interesting that you word it that way because im curious of your reaction of this tv ad thats being run by demand justice which is a group on the left that is opposing judge kavanaugh. I want to play for you this ad because it presumes him guilty and i want to play it for you and see what you think of this. Take a look. When 15yearold christine tried to scream her attacker covered her mouth so no one could hear her. Will Susan Collins listen to her now . I play it now because what you just described was presuming her not to be telling the truth. This is presuming him to already be guilty. It seems as if were in a bad situation no matter your point of view. Heres how i see it. For a very long time, in the history of this country when women spoke out about allegations of Sexual Assault or abuse, they were presumed to be making it up or culturally not talking or told to be quiet. So i think it is very important in this time and this day that we recognize when women speak out that we should presume that they are innocent. Look, if someone says my car got stolen, you dont presume theyre lying. Right. If someone says i was sexually abused people today sometimes presume that theyre making it up, that theyre whatever. It should be a presumption of innocence and then have a fair process to go through to determine the truth. Do you think a hearing where its really his word, her word. Were not going to have anything else and theres not going to be an fbi investigation. Thats a tough same question i asked of senator purdue. Youre a human being, and how do you determine who is telling the truth and its going to be your own gut. The Senate Republicans have now set this up and that is what were going have. Do you believe her or do you believe him . That is exactly why we have been pressing for an fbi investigation that should only take a few day, so there are other facts out there and there are other witnesses. In fact, i have said many times that the anita hill hearing was a disaster and they did have an fbi investigation and they did have other witnesses and other ways to judge this. The Senate Republicans have predetermined the outcome that this is a he said she says by taking that away. This was interesting, but anita hill wrote the following on wednesday and she had a suggestion for the Judiciary Committee. She wrote, the public expects better from the government from 1991 that they still lack the protocol for vetting the Sexual Harassment and the confirmation hearing suggests that the committee has learned little from the thomas hearing much less the more recent me too movement. It is what shes suggesting. There is no protocol, right, on the Judiciary Committee. Is there a protocol of you guys deal with a lot of advice and consent when it comes to nominees. When there is an allegation like this, is there any protocol in the senate like this . Clearly not, and this is what ive been saying since the beginning of this a week ago now is that the Senate Congress failed the test in 1991 with anita hill that they can deal with this kind of allegation and they have to be ab