Transcripts For MSNBCW Michael 20240705 : vimarsana.com

MSNBCW Michael July 5, 2024

Michael steele in for katie feng and Jonathan Kaye part. Immunity insanity, special counsel jack smith fires back at trumps president ial Immunity Defense and the federal trial. Our team at msnbc legal and Political Analysts are standing by to help us break it all down. Looking at that this new 80 Page Court Filing and how it impacts the 2024 race for the white house, ahead. Taking aim, Ukrainian Forces strike back after russias biggest aerial barrage since the war began nearly two years ago. The latest overnight developments coming up in a live report. Security and celebration. Police across the country are beefing up their presence on the ground and in the air to keep new Years Eve Party or safe. We are live in new yorks times square where nearly 1 Million People are expected to bring in the new year under tighter security. We begin with the latest on Donald Trumps deepening legal troubles in a new filing on saturday, special counsel jack smith urged the d. C. Appeals court to reject the ex president s Immunity Defense that hes using to try to dismiss his federal election interference charges. This comes as we are also waiting to see if the Supreme Court will weigh in on the now two states that have ruled trumps constitutionally ineligible to be on the president ial ballot. Both colorado and maine were citing the 14th Amendment due to trumps actions surrounding the january 6th attack on the u. S. Capitol. The Colorado Republican Party is calling for the countrys highest court to overturn the states really. In maine, Secretary Of State is facing backlash from her decision with threats of impeachment and his socalled Swatting Call at her home on friday. Heres bells discussing the dangers her and her staff are facing. Swatting the home of an elected Official Anne who is doing their job is unacceptable. And what my staff, my team, have experienced, what they experienced all day yesterday was a constant onslaught up threatening communications. That has to stop. Joining me now is anthony coley, former director of the department of justice, offices Public Affairs in msnbc justice and Legal Affairs analyst, and kristy greenberg, former prosecutor and sdny Criminal Division deputy chief. Welcome to you both. Kristie, lets start with special counsel jack smith calling on the d. C. Appeals court to reject trumps claims of president ial immunity on the election interference trial. The more than 80page file says, in part, the Immunity Claim implies that a president may use any means necessary to remain in power, and quote. What are your thoughts on the argument that mr. Smith is making here, and do you think that it will hold any weight for the appeal Court Decision . This was a strong brief from the special counsels office, and i do think that the d. C. Court of appeals is going to be inclined to agree. A former president is not entitled to absolute immunity for any criminal acts that he engaged in while he was president. The opening paragraph of the briefest strong and say that donald trump is arguing that he needs to protect the bedrock up the republic. Jack smiths arguments is, no, what actually would protect the bedrock of the republic is accountability. The accountability for criminal acts taken while in that sacred office. It is a strong briefing a do you think that the d. C. Court of appeals is going to be inclined to agree. So lets get into the two states that have actually kind of weighed in on all of this. You have to have 50 now who say the trump is ineligible. What does that mean, how does that look, you have states out there that are not so inclined anne. For example, california, michigan, have a different perspective. How do you see this landscape shaping up, will it be enough for the Supreme Court to take up the case . Lets talk first about why the 14th Amendment was put in place, right . It was put in place, i would argue, to protect our country. For people like donald trump, anne they, why would you allow anyone on the ballot who would actively try to destroy our democracy . Thats why a lot of people, a large part of what this debate has been about. Trumps argument in this case is that in the colorado in particular, he did engage in an insurrection. Michael, we all saw what happened on january six. We saw him some in this crowd to washington. We saw him telling them to go up the street, fight like hell, and we saw them take out their weapons, we saw them on their helmets, their vests, their tactical vest, they had zip tie handcuffs, they go down to the capitol and they sold 117 police officers, five of those officers died, michael. We see them to face the capital. We saw them assault members of the news media, they did all of that. They only stopped until donald trump told him to stop. In my, mind im not a constitutional scholar, but thats not an insurrection, if thats not a disqualifying action by a wouldbe president , then i dont know what is. Kristie, he raises a number of interesting points, and while were sitting here awaiting oregon state Supreme Court to rule on trumps eligibility, you know friday, excuse, me opposing the effort to keep him off the ballot. If the Supreme Court does decide to act on these decisions, how important that decision be on the 2024 race in light of what anthony said. I do think that the Supreme Court is going to take up the appeal from the colorado Supreme Court ruling. I dont think that the Supreme Court is going to find that the presidency is not in office of the United States under the 14th Amendment. I dont think that theyre going to really address the substance of the fact finding that donald trump thing engaged in insurrection or not. They think theyre going to stay away from that. They also dont think theyre going to make a broad ruling stating that, you know, the states, each of the states dont have procedures in place to be able to deal with whos qualified to be on their ballots. But i do think the Supreme Court is going to do is take us back to a bush v. Gore decision. A narrow decision that is limited to the consideration of the president circumstances. Very narrow. Theyre going to essentially say, dillard of the holding of the Supreme Court justice in colorado, at least in the distance. What he said was, look, the call colorado Election Code is not dealing with complex questions about whether or not a former candidate is engaged in an insurrection. It is equipped to deal with procedures like whether or not somebody is not the right age, not a resident of the United States, not born in the United States, doesnt have the requisite amount of signatures. Simple, basic questions. It is not able to deal with, under its complex, very quick procedures, complex questions like this one. I dont think the Supreme Court is going to say that they cant deal with all complex questions, theyre just going to limit it to this insurrections. It doesnt have president ial value. That was a Violation Ambush Creek or when it was limited in that way, and it did have president to be cited since, and i think the Supreme Court will do something similar here because ultimately, i dont think the Supreme Court is going to want this conservative majority in the Supreme Court. Its going to disqualify donald trump from the ballot. Its a radical move in their view. Theyre not going to want to be Persona Non Grata in conservative circles. A thing where the law is unclear, donald trump is going to get the wind from this court. I dont see him actually being disqualified from any of the ballots. Its important to note that while these decisions are being appealed, donald trump can still be on the ballots in these states. In colorado and in maine, march 5th is the date for the primary. There is not a lot of time here, so while this appeal is being taken up by the Supreme Court, donald trump is on the ballot. Anthony, kristie raises a number of interesting points but i suspect thats how this is going up at the court, how this is playing out on the ground in realtime, where there are threats, to Judicial In Court officials. What does this say about where we are right now in this process . Kristie is basically saying that in the end, bush v. Gore is going to find a narrow lane. There are consequences both political and otherwise as a result of what the Supreme Court decides. Its a sad state of affairs. Earlier this, week we saw the Deputy Attorney general of the United States speak to the kind of threats that doj prosecutors and fbi agents are receiving. All of this is coming back, can be traced back to donald trump. He frequently talks to supporters. He attacks these judges. He posts this information about the Secretary Of State on his trump social media feed. Many times, his supporters view these things as he knows that. Its a sad state of affairs. I want to pick up one other thing that kristie said. Harnesses a spot on. The Supreme Court is going to find some kind of all frame here. But i also, it is not radical for some individuals, and thats not a word that she, is but is not radical for some individuals who suggest that democrats, and people who love democracy, should not be pursuing these options. I think when you stand on the side of truth and justice, and accountability, you cant be afraid for the other side does. There it is right there, you cant be afraid of what the other side does. Thank, you we really appreciate it. Next, Breaking News overnight on the war in ukraine, what we know about the escalating retaliatory attacks between moscow and kyiv. Plus, inside president bidens decision to Sidestep Congress and approve the latest nine Figure Arms Sale to israel. Weve got a packed show for you this morning so grab that coffee and keeper right here on msnbc. Msnbc. A major escalation in the Russia Ukraine war overnight, with russian authorities claiming that ukrainian attacks on the City Of Belgrade has killed at least 22 people and injured nearly 110 others. The attack is the deadliest assault against a russian cities since the start of the war. It comes after fridays massive air assaults targeting multiple ukrainian cities. This is another sign that both countries remain committed to escalating the war that will mark its two Year Anniversary of february. Joining me now, megan fitzgerald, nbc news foreign correspondent. Megan, what can you tell us about the latest escalation that were seen on the ground between russia and ukraine . Michael, as you mentioned, we saw one of the most significant attacks on russian soil. Among those who died includes children. Russia vows that they will seek revenge, and that is exactly what we saw. Overnight, russia pounded the city of kharkiv, which is in the eastern part of ukraine. Dozens of people were wounded, at least two people were killed so far that we know of. Thats according to kharkiv police. They say those two people were pulled from the rubble of a private hall. Now, you remember on friday, ukraine saw what president zelenskyy has called the heaviest attack. One of the most significant attacks that ukraine has seen since the beginning of the war. Explosions all over the country from lviv in the west, to kharkiv in the east, down in the south in odessa, and the capital city of kyiv. At least 40 people have died from that nationwide attack. More than 150 people injured. The mayor of kyiv is calling for, tomorrow, new years day, to be a day of warning. As you mentioned, this is a sign that this war is showing no sign of stopping in as it closes in on the two year mark. Michael. Nbc newss megan fitzgerald, thank you so much for your reporting. Joining me now to discuss the russiaukraine war in the israelhamas war is msnbc military analyst, colonel jacobs. Good morning to you, what is your reaction to the or teletory strikes at this point. Do you think that will continue to see an escalation of that . That just be a one and done . How do you read whats going on there . Well up till now, it hasnt been a what in, down this is just the latest in a series of attacks across the border. This will continue as long as both sides have ammunition. These attacks will continue. Theyre liable, of not likely, to escalate. As things on the ground stagnate, not very Much Movement one where the other. The strategic towns that were taken, or reminiscent of the first world war. Terrorizing populations is the way that it is perceived, that there will be, theyll be able to make an impact on leadership on both sides, but that wont happen. Ukraine is defending itself against an unprovoked attack, and will continue to defend itself in a way that it can, as long as it has the means to do it. On the russian side, putin will continue to prosecute the war. He failed in the north around kyiv, the move to the south. His objective is to create a land bridge from Crimea All The Way across so that he can control the north show, the black sea, all the way across moldova, and ukraine wont let that happen. In the end, it has been predicted since the beginning, some kind of negotiated settlement that would cede this to russia. Its always a possibility as both sides become exhausted in the use of their Military Instrument and the losses up their personnel. These kinds of attacks across the border, they will probably, they will continue, and the probably increase the severity of frequency, michael. One of the a tha this is something that i know the you Pay Attention to. At we saw, for example, the barrage of aerosols on friday, which include 122 missiles, but ukraine was only able to shoot down about 70 of them. How concerned are individuals like yourself and others who are watching this play out, that russia may be learning how to avoid ukraines air defense . Well, it is concerning. For two reasons. The first is something you just, mentioned in that is the sheer number of vehicles, of missiles, rockets, drones, they will flood the system, and make it impossible for ukraine to shoot them all down. Some will get through, and obviously, be devastating, particularly because they land in populated areas. They dont necessarily have any military significance. Its just to terrorize people. So thats the first problem. The second, problem particularly for you, is that theyre running out of ammunition to counterattack, ukraine rule has a great deal on the west, particularly the United States, to provide the funding and the weapons that it can defend itself. To the extent that the west begins to waver, thats supply is liable to dry up. That is what putin is relying on. He can say a lot longer than the west can. His perception is that as long as he continues to prosecute the war, and deplete the resources of ukraine, and the west, ultimately the west will tire of supporting ukraine, and then hell be able to have his way. Hes playing the longer game than the wests, so, far he hasnt succeeded, but as we go into the second, year maybe the third year of this war, no one knows what will happen after that. I think you raise an interesting point about how the long game is played out here. We see that with respect to ukraine, with a that is currently negotiated as part of a package that is tied to aid to israel on Border Security reform. President biden is really pushing hard trying to Pressure Congress to act. How important is this all plays out, is it for this process here in the u. S. To work . To meet that long game that putins plane . Well there are a couple reasons why it is important. The forces the immediate support that the United States can render to both israel and to ukraine. The second revolves around our ability to demonstrate that War Stalwarts to convince our european allies to continue their support. Dont forget theres also the front lines, that really motivates them. In the, end of it looks like the United States is going to wave or, there are liable to end up wavering to. They might not have all the resources necessary to defend themselves against russian encroachment, particularly in the northwest of europe. Its really important that the United States is demonstrated solidarity with those who have been invaded, and to the extent that we dont do that, its going to be a rapid fall, and it will be very, very difficult for the United States to both defend its own interests, and those of its al

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