Alex Witt hosts coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories. Two items, the Collusion Case and the obstruction case. What would the president consider sitting down two with the approval of his attorneys . How much has this conversation evolved . Well, i think we have to take everything Rudy Giuliani says with a grain of salgt. And when were only hearing about these conversations from him, it is very unclear to me how accurate he is in relaying those conversations. But if it is true that giuliani is considering a response to mueller and that they are continuing to negotiate about this interview, it surprises me a little bit. Mueller has the carrot of a subpoena. And i think most legal experts including me believe that if this were to go all the way to the supreme court, that donald trump would have to sit for testimony in front the grand jury. But what it tells me is two things potentially. One is i think bob mueller doesnt want a fight. He doesnt want the litigation battle to go down. And the reason for that is the
that tweet about Jeff Hsessions with regard to this investigation, you saw the white house walking that back saying that an opinion. Rudy giuliani weighing in on that as well. Fascination for me was in the New York Times piece on that tweet. The way that the president s legal team pushed back on that. First the emails, thenal the calls with Rudy Giuliani and jay sekulow. What do you make more broadly of Rudy Giulianis behavior, his approach to this interview and this case . Sure. I mean i think it is clear that when you turn to Rudy Giuliani in 2018, you know, despite the fact that he used to be a prosecutor, youre not using him to make a legal case, okay. They have lawyers who are far more in the mix right now who will do that and they will battle for the president in the courtroom. What they are doing by using rudy and putting him out there is they are trying to sow doubt about the findings of the investigation to begin with, they are battling in the public
sphere because ultimately again impeachment really is a political process. It is not a legal one. And so they are kind of fighting on two fronts. Fighting in the courts and then they are fighting for the Public Opinion. And i think in trump world that is sometimes even important. All rudy really needs to do is sow doubt and chaos. And hes good at that. And the focus of Rudy Giuliani, focus of the president in large part has been on this term collusion. Scarcely a day goes by when the president doesnt say on twitter or in a speech no collusion. Weve seen the gold poal posts of moved by the president and his legal team. Lets look at that. By the democrats, there is no collusion between me and my campaign and the russians. It was a short meeting. So i think from a practical standpoint most people would have taken that meeting. But Nothing Happened from the meeting. Zero happened from the meeting. Nothing illegal about. Even if it comes from a russian or german or an american, doesnt matter. And they never used it is the main thing. Never used it. They rejected it. What exactly would the crime be here . Nobody is claiming that any information changed hands. Though even if it did, so what . They wont be colluding about russians, which i dont even know if that is a crime. You start analyzing the crime, the hacking is the crime. Trump today following his lawyer Rudy Giulianis lead and pushing a new defense, not so much no collusion, but as he tweeted this morning, collusion is not a crime. Of course trump then adds but it didnt matter because there was no collusion except by Crooked Hillary and the democrats. You see how that evolves. This notion of whether or not there was collusion, legality of collusion, what is your sense of this. I think that it is working. Time just recently wrote that donald trump has made 208 separate arguments about russia and collusion and the overall investigation. There was a recent cbs poll that came out in may that indicated 51 of americans now believe this is political pli moly moti. In july 53 of independents, not talking about republicans or democrats, but independents believe that this is politically motivated. So while it may raise a lot of doubts and questions in our minds why would people, who are these folks who believe this, it does show that it is having some level of an impact. And politically speaking for republicans going into november who were really concerned about having to answer for this, i do think they now can make a case to at least a select group of individuals in their respective
districts that we dont know what will happen here. We need to see the evidence. Nothing has come out. And some of those voters may stick with them. And youre focused on the legal side of things. Were focused on the political curtain. So is it your sense that is this all a side show to what is happening with this investigation as you hear from Rudy Giuliani the case that he is making, the case that he is making to sow chaos, that is really a side show . This is a one way battle right now, one Way Communications battle. And this has been the case for a long time because bob mueller and his office are running an incredibly professional operation where they are doing what they are supposed do, which is not leak any evidence. Criminal investigations are confidential for a variety of reasons, including the grand jury secrecy, but not only that. And so what you have on The Other Side is trump and giuliani persistently, consistently, constantly battering the investigation. And i agree that it is for the
reason of sowing doubt and turning it into a political process. But these polls reflect the effectiveness of that campaign. But at some Point Bob Mueller will speak. And he is going to speak through an indictment. And i think that it will be a lengthy detailed bombshell of an indictment. And all of a sudden its not going to be a one way ration anymore, you you will have a strong powerful communication via indictment from The Other Side. And at that point it will be very interesting to see what happens with the Public Opinion because you can go on and on and on about there is no evidence of collusion, no evidence of collusion. Of course there is not. It is a confidential investigation. Of course you wont see evidence until you do. All i can think about when im hearing you speak is something that barack obama said shortly before he left office which is reality has a way of
catching up with you. And when you look at Rudy Giuliani out there and some of these decembsperate tweets, the desperation is we dont know what mueller will find, but they are afraid i believe. You can definitely tell that they are afraid. But i also think it is important because their messaging is so ridiculous that you are just like collusion isnt a crime . Everything is about xyle and la. Remember when obama wore a tan suit . Im like wait, are we really at this points. It has become delusional. I think the underlying question is lets say there is an indictment. What do republicans do . That 30 of the country that still supports President Trump, do they stick with him. Those questions remain unanswered. And i think it will ultimately impact what happens in congress. When you read Between The Lines of the desperation though, as a prosecutor, i see data
points that are forcing them to become desperate. It is not Out Of The Blue that these tweets and goal posts are shifting. And we can get into a lot of details about it, but there are reasons that i can see why they are starting to get moore desperate because youre starting to see the sources of some collusion or are what we call collusion but conspiracy case being made out. And so it is not random that they are desperate. They are starting to get more information i think from the investigation. They didnt giuliani doesnt have a lot of the information either nor does trumps team, but they are starting to get a sense of it. All right. Well come back in a second. You mentioned the tweet about lebron james. Well talk about what led the president to blast the nba superstar questioning the players intelligence. Plus another republican candidate on the ropes in a district donald trump won easily back in 2016. Why the president is on his way to ohio next. This is a story about mail
and packages. And its also a story about people. People who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams theyre handing us more than mail theyre handing us their business and while we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget. That your business is our business the United States postal service. Priority you but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. School lebron james founded in akron, ohio. James an outspoken critic of the president underscored how President Trump has continually used sports as a way to sow division in the United States. What i noticed over the last few months, that hes kind of used sport to kind of divide us. And that is something that i cant relate to because i know that sport was the first time i ever was around someone white, you know. And i got an opportunity to see them and learn about them and they got an opportunity to learn about me and we game very good friends. And i was like wow this, is all because of sports. Sports has always been something that brings someone together. And leaving aside the strange and dated cultural touch stone there of i like mike, how do you react to this . This is not the first time weve seen the president go after an
athlete. What do you make of him doing this today on the heels of an interview aired last night . I think it is ridiculous and so racist. Weve seen him do this with the nfl. Lebron james is out talking about this Amazing School that he is starting and all this good work that he is doing for the community and here comes President Trump who already had something against don lemon. And coming up just like lebron james said, sports is something that brings americans together and he is just using to divide us. And i dont think it is a smart move on trumps party especially with the special elections coming up in ohio. Steph curry, colin kaepernick, just a few that he has gone after. How does this resonate with his base and the Republican Party . Will it play well when he heads out to ohio . I think this is a district that the president won by 11 , i think that the point in time having worked on so many different campaigns, you know,
your first objective is to target and mobilize your base. Once you solidify then, then you start looking at those in the middle, what penlg of thorcentae folks can we mobilize and what are the best methods to do so. This is not a hard red or right leaning district, so i think he is targeting some of those individuals who may not necessarily agree with him attacking lebron, but may say okay, lebron, you are an athlete, you shouldnt be getting into this. That may convince them to either stay home or come out for the republican. Either two benefits republicans. There is a Delicious Duplicitousness that you see here. You look at what he has said about lebron james in the past. Quote, as one of miamis largest land owners, im pulling for the heat. Lebrons time is now. He is a great player and great guy. Lebron is a tough competitor who delivers under pressure. Lets take that as a Jumping Off Point here just to talk about the way i think you could say cynical way in which the president is using Something Like this. Well, racism and race wait bawait racebaiting is clearly the best tool he thinks he has. This is a changing country. Nonwhite children outpace the birth of white children. The country is changing. Now, you can be someone more like barack obama in this way and you can actually appeal to peoples better angels and say listen, there is nothing to be afraid of, well all do this together, or you can be like donald trump and you can bring out the worst in people and you can use their fear to get elected. But i just have to say that my favorite part about the tweet last night was just the thought thinking about donald trump sitting there stewing, you know, upset watching a black journalist interview this rock
star who not only is an incredible athlete, but also was being interviewed because of what he contributed helping build this school for underprivileged kids. And it just tells you about the power of culture and i think as much as donald trump and some of his supporters might want to fight it, change is coming. Change is here. Change is happening. You cant stop it. And i kind of just love that. And youre a former athlete, college athlete. Weigh in on the sport side of it. But he seizes upon intelligence. Yeah, the low iq maxine waters, lebron james dumb. And his little nicknames, it is not dumb hillary, it is crooked hi hillary. And this kind of racial stereotypes that he is
constantly perpetuating is shocking in our country on the heels of the first black president. It is truly remarkable that that is what he is choosing to pursue. And i think what is happening a little bit is there is just a Con Deniation so to speak of his base that likes that, that feels that with the national an them or whatever it is that supports that. And at some point it will come back to bite him. But what i really want to see is i want to see an expose on Donald TrumpsBusiness Success versus lebron james. Because lebron james is a real businessman. And he has done it incredibly well and i would love to get a real dual on those two. And when i think about this, just beyond donald trump, i think when the Republican Party and the country as far as diversity. And this is an issue that will impact the Republican Party beyond midterms, beyond 2020 as
the party has struggled at least for the past several decades now with are targeting minorities. Here you have a president will people will not forgive many of these statements. They wont for get the marginalization of the president. So this is something that the Republican Party will have to deal with at some point. All right. Dan, thanks very much. Appreciate it. Up next, as ohio goes, so go the midterms. President trump is clearly worried about that old adage. His last minute trip today to a district he won but is now fighting to keep in republican control. Were in a small room. What . welcome. [ gasps ] a bigger room . how many of you use Car Insurance . Oh. Well, what if i showed you this . [ laughing ] hohoho wow. Its a computer. We compare rates to help you get the price and coverage thats right for you. Thats amazing the only thing that would make this better is if my mom were here. What . an unexpected ending is if my mom were here. Take prilosec otc and take control of heartburn. So you dont have to stash antacids here. Here. Or, here. Kick your Antacid Habit with prilosec otc. One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. Booking a flight doesnt have to be expensive. Just go to priceline. Its the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40 . Just tap and go. For the best savings on flights, go to priceline. Copd makes it hard to breathe. So to breathe better, i go with anoro. Go your own way copd tries to say, go this way. I say, ill go my own way, with anoro. Go your own way oncedaily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators that Work Together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. Anoro is not for asthma. It contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. The risk is unknown in copd. Anoro wont replace Rescue Inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. Tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma,
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