It was much lengthier, which i think caused some of us to speculate that all of these delays related to some juror issue, but the jurors are all back. Theres been no further discussion of the reason for the delay. Testimony is ongoing. The other intriguing thing that happened today was about sealed testimony about some rick gates testimony that could have to do with an investigation that is still ongoing. When we consider what investigations are still ongoing that rick gates might have to do with, were looking at the larger special counsel investigation into the russia probe. What do you make of that testimony being put under seal by the judge . Well, that came after an objection when the defense asked rick gates if he was asked questions by the fbi about his role in the Trump Campaign. And so at that point there was this sidebar where no doubt they discussed the scope of rick gates cooperation. It would not surprise me if he wasnt providing information about the time that he served as Deputy Campaign manager. She would be on the computer taking his dictations. Thats the kind of relationship they had. Also theyre extremely close friends. So hes probably shared a lot with her. And what would Andrew Miller know, and why would he say no to a subpoena . Why would he risk that . Shes actually a key figure were learning. Kristin told me Andrew Miller was the person who handled his schedule and was in that Assistant Role during those key months, july, august, september, october, november, when all of this was brewing and erupting in the leadup to the election. When podesta was im sorry, when roger stone was tweeting things like it will soon be John Podestas time in the barrel. Exactly right. From my reporting on what muellers team has been asking witnesses, roger stone has been somebody that keeps coming up and they want to know what did roger stone have to do with the campaign . He was dismissed in 2015. He says he quit, the Campaign Said he was fired. Did he leave or was he working
in an unofficial capacity, was he communicating with donald trump, if he was, what was he saying. If hes communicating with donald trump Behind The Scenes and maybe if hes communicating with wikileaks Behind The Scenes, was he passing information. Those are all unknowns right now, theyre questions. Right. Clearly he was still supporting trump and trying to work on his behalf and trying to use these wikileaks, use those emails to trumps advantage. He has gotten himself into really hot water, as have other individuals. I dont know that they realized that this would turn into a federal inquiry of this magnitude, and now the weight of the Mueller Investigation is wearing down heavily on people like roger stone, his inner circle, people like don junior, who probably didnt realize what they were getting into. We will see what happens there. Anna schecter, Great Reporting as always. Thank you very much for joining us. And to help me break this down, im joined by a reporter at the daily beast, betsy
woodruff and glen kirschner, who spent his more than 30year Career Working in d. C. Betsy, first to you. Give us the broader picture of what we can now conclude that mueller is looking into. We know mueller is deeply interested in some of the more fringe figures sort of on the periphery of the Trump Campaign. This indicates hes casting a wide net. Theres two different ways of reading muellers investigation of roger stone. One possible interpretation of all the evidence that weve seen thus far, all the reporting, mine, yours, everything that were hearing, is that mueller is genuinely on the trail of finding something potentially unlawful that roger stone may have been involved in. Sources have speculated to me that it could be a financial issue, kind of analogous to the trouble manafort has gotten into, that there is potential law breaking that would have nothing to do with trump or the campaign that mueller could be investigating. Thats one possible reading of all the reporting, one way of making sense of it. Another way of making sense of it, which is sort of the way that would be best, the most
happy interpretation for roger stone and company is that mueller has a responsibility to check every box. He has a responsibility to leave no stone unturned, to investigate thoroughly every lead, to talk to everyone who could know anything about potential collusion. So just the fact that hes doing a very thorough investigation wouldnt necessarily mean that hes about to indict someone. Either of those interpretations is a way of looking at the reporting that weve gotten thus far. Given that its mueller and hes hard to predict, its hard to say which way this will pan out. No stone unturned, nice pun. Roger stone is sort of named in the latest indictment by Robert Mueller of the 12 russians, that indictment that came out in july. The conspirators, posing at guccifer 2. 0 also communicated with u. S. Persons about the release of stolen documents. They wrote to a person who was in regular contact with senior members of the president ial campaign of donald j. Trump. That person is roger stone. Glenn. So katy, it looks like the circle continues to constrict around roger stone. This is sort of a classic investigative tactic. Bob mueller and his team are going to the people who are closest to mr. Stone both personally and professionally. Miss davis we have heard reporting has both a personal relationship and a Business Relationship with mr. Stone. Andrew miller apparently was more of a Business Relationship. But if he was roger stones scheduler, he could be a bonanza of potentially incriminating information. As but one example, we came to learn when roger stone testified before the House Intelligence Committee behind closed doors, he was apparently asked about meetings with russians and he said he had none. However, we then heard he did have that little meeting that he forgot about with henry greenberg, not his real last name. He was a potential russian operative. Mr. Greenberg was looking for 2 million in exchange for dirt onHillary Clinton. How mr. Stone could forget that is sort of beyond belief. But what mr. Mueller is going to be looking at is his schedule, his email communications, his texts, anything he said orally to both miss davis and Andrew Miller, because thats actually going to be a fairly easy Perjury Charge to prove if the Investigative Team can get any corroboration for the fact that he didnt forget about the meeting, he concealed it from the House Intelligence Committee. In my conversations in the past two hours about this about roger stone and the folks that are being interviewed, people keep bringing Up Don Junior as well. Not necessarily in direct relation to roger stone per se but as somebody who also could be very exposed in the Mueller Investigation. Betsy, again, just remind our audience how don junior what don junior has at risk right now. One of the biggest challenges
that junior faces is the fact that he attended this controversial meeting in trump tower that russians who are connected to the kremlin set up for the stated purposes of providing dirt on Hillary Clinton to the Trump Campaign. Now, depending on which lawyers you talk to, youll hear different interpretations of what type of legal liability that could potentially open up donald junior to. One term i hear thrown around is this question of conspiracy. Could junior be alleged to have conspired, to have participated in an effort designed to circumvent Campaign Finance laws by getting material from a Foreign Government or from a foreign entity and using it on a campaign, which is against the law. Even though theres no evidence thus far that russians actually provided dirt to the Trump Campaign, that meeting, of course, was a big disappointment to the very high level Trump Campaign officials that participated in it. That said, for legal purposes, that may not necessarily
exculpate trump junior. If you try to rob a bank, it doesnt matter whether or not youre successful in robbing that bank. Glenn, one other thing, the Washington PostEditorial Board is saying enoughs enough. Time for mueller to bring out the big guns. Its time for him to subpoena the president. Glenn, what do you think . Katy, i dont know that bob mueller can subpoena the president because an i worked for bob mueller, he was my chief of homicide right here in d. C. Were governed by the policies of the department of justice. And ordinarily we dont Subpoena Targets of an investigation. Why is that . Because a target of an investigation by definition has a right against sel selfincrimination. You dont become a target unless the investigators are looking to indict you. So we dont know that hes ripened into a target but if he has ripened into the target, then doj policy would say bob
mueller cant subpoena him. There is an exception to the policy, but in my 30 years as a prosecutor ive never seen it employed. So i if i were to give my informed opinion, i dont think well ever see a subpoena going from bob mueller to the president. Interesting. Glenn kirschner, betsy woodruff, guys, thank you very much. Gentleman and lady, i could say. Coming up, the city Of Charlottesville is preparing for a State Of Emergency ahead of the oneyear anniversary of last years deadly White Supremacist rally. So has the conversation on race evolved one year later . Youre watching msnbc. I get unlimited 1. 5 cash back. Its so simple, i dont even have to think about it. So i think about mouthfeel. I dont think about the ink card. I think about nitrogen ice cream in supermarkets all over the world. I think about the details. Fine, i obsess over the details. Think about every part of your business except the one part that works without a thought your ink card. Introducing Chase Ink Business unlimited with unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase. Chase for business. Make more of whats yours. Ayep, and my teeth are yellow. . Time for whitestrips. Crest glamorous White Whitestrips are the only adaaccepted whitening strips proven to be safe and effective. And they whiten 25x better than a leading whitening toothpaste. Crest. Healthy, beautiful smiles for life. Are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi. . A more powerful way to stay connected. It gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most Wifi Coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. Its the ultimate wifi experience. Xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. Does this ring a bell, i think there is blame on both sides. Almost one year ago, the president delivered those very words shortly after a working vacation in bedminster, new jersey. On august 15, 2017, speaking to our entire country, President Trump refused to condemn the white nationalists responsible for turning an already violent Unite The Right rally in charlottesville, virginia, deadly. Deadly because james fields jr. Allegedly drove his car into a crowd of counterprotesters, killing 32yearold heather heyer. He pleaded not guilty to federal hate crimes charges. Hes been charged under virginia law with murder and other crimes. The president s lack of moral authority in that moment ignited a nationwide debate over race in
america, a debate that continues today because on the eve of the anniversary of that deadly clash, where is the president s ire . Its focused on nfl players protesting Racial Injustice in america. The president tweeted be happy, be cool, and instructed the players to stand proudly for your National Anthem or be suspended without pay. This as the city Of Charlottesville prepares to go under a State Of Emergency just hours from now. Joining me is nbc news Kelly Odonnell in new jersey where the president is on his, quote, working vacation. Kelly, why have we not heard anything from the white house other than tweeting about the nfl . Reporter well, theres no easy answer for that, katy. The white house has not put out a statement about this, the president has not. He did do an event on prison reform, which was covered by the tv pool and journalists in the pool. That was yesterday. Thats part of the working part of working vacation. And thats the most recent sort of Public Sighting weve had of the president that had some business related to it. Its an opportunity for the president to comment on this. We will have to look for his i dont have the microphone on. There we go, my apologies. Thats my bad. The president could take this step and he has elected not to thus far. Well have to see on the anniversary itself whether that makes any difference. What we have been talking about to some degree today is the new book by Omarosa Newman and she is making very serious charges against the president on the issue of race. There have been others critical of the president on this topic over time, and certainly she had been one of the people who had supported the president. She served 11 months in the administration. Her book, which is being reported on by different entities, its not out yet publicly, an shes accusing the
president of, in her description of kind of coming to a realization she felt that he was in fact bigoted. The white house has come out with a statement and that is notable, because the news of this book was coming and yet they had kind of held back. But today a really sharply worded statement from Sarah Sanders that says in part that this book is riddled with lies an false accusations. Its sad that a disgruntled former white house employee is trying to profit off these false attacks and even worse, that the media would now give her a platform after not taking her seriously when she had only positive things to say about the president during her time in the administration. As you pointed out, the president did choose to tweet about the nfl players, that season kicking up again. He has found that to be a topic that has fired up some of his audiences and a topic that he has returned to time and again, trying to, i suppose, influence the culture of the nfl. Yet there have been really mixed
reviews about that, in part where the president says some of the athletes dont know what theyre protesting when many of them have articulated specifically what they have protested, which has been Law Enforcement incidents involving africanamerican men where they have had a really troubled history, and thats one of the things they have been trying to speak out about through that symbolism. I think they have been pretty clear on that. Lets remind everybody, omarosa stayed in the administration for four months after what happened in charlottesville. Four months. Kelly odonnell, kelly, thank you very much. Youre very deft with the microphone. With me now, Michael Denzel smith, author of the New York Times bestseller Invisible Man got the whole world watching a young black mans education, and Washington Post columnist, christine emba. The president is tweeting about the nfl because he believes its a political winner for him. Steve bannon has gone out there
and said out loud that Identity Politics is a winner for donald trump. It worked in 2016, it will work in the midterms, it will work in 2020. As long as the democrats are talking about race, donald trump is winning, which is why youre seeing him do things like tweet about the nfl. I disagree with that because id say that donald trump is tweeting about the nfl because hes a racist. Weve known hes a racist since at least 1989 when he tried to get the central park five killed, executed for a crime they did not commit. And maybe before that when he wouldnt rent any of his properties to black people. The president of the United States is a white nationalist, is a White Supremacist. That is who he is. And so in seeing the nfl players be insubordinate and not deferential to a White Supremacist notion to what country should be, he is calling
for them to bending the knee to him, to say to him that they need to recognize their place and not step out of line, to entertain us, to be the black bodies that entertain us. I dont know that it goes beyond that calculation that hes like so politically invested in this idea. Now, steve bannon, sure, hes the architect of all of that as far as a political operative goes, but this is just these are just the held beliefs of the president of the United States. What do you think, christine . Do you think that this is this is who he is at his core, or do you think that this is somehow related to strategy for politics . Sad to say, i think its a little bit of both or m