Charges brought by the house. I believe these documents are also of great importance to making sure senators have the information necessary to make a fully informed decision, this terribly weighty decision. The house has built a very strong case against the president. Maybe thats why leader mcconnell doesnt seem to want witnesses, at least not agree to them now. Maybe thats why the president is afraid, because the house case is so strong, that they dont want witnesses that might corroborate it. The evidence the house put together includes public testimony given under oath by numerous senior officials appointed by President Trump. These are trump 57. Teas were calling, not some partisan democratic. Some republican senators have said that, while the charges are serious, they havent seen enough evidence to make a decision. Thats one of the reasons i propose subpoenas for these witnesses for these documents, all directly relevant, from officials who have yesterday to testify during any stage of the house process. Senators who oppose this plan will have to explain why less evidence is better than more evidence. Again, let me say that to every senator in this room, democratic and republican. Senators who oppose this plan will have to explain why less evidence is better than more evidence, and theyre going to have to explain that position to a public that is understandably skeptical when they see an administration suppressing evidence and blocking senior officials from telling the truth about what they know. Let me repeat this
washington abc poll. Just this morning, i read about it in the paper this morning, 71 of americans believe the president should allow his top aides to testify in a potential senate trial. 72 of independents and 64 of republicans, 64 of republicans think that President Trump should allow his top aides to testify in a potential senate trial. Seven out of ten americans. The American People have a wisdom that seems to be lacking with some of my colleagues. A trial without witnesses is not a trial. Its a Rush To Judgment. Its a sham trial. The American People understand that a trial without relevant documents is not a fair trial. Again, a desire not for sunlight but for darkness, to conceal
facts that may well be very relevant. The American People understand, if youre trial to conceal evidence and block testimony, its probably not because the evidence is going to help your case. Its because youre trying to cover something up. President trump, are you worried about what these witnesses would say . If youre not worried, let them come forward. If you are worried, we ought to hear from them. I havent heard again, the leader went on for 15, 20 minutes, the republican leader without giving a single argument for why these witnesses shouldnt testify, or these documents shouldnt be produced unless the president has something to hide. In the coming weeks every senator will have a choice. Do they want a fair, honest
trial that examines all the facts or do they want a trial that doesnt let all the facts come out . We will have votes. During this proceeding, should the house send it to us, after voting for it, when they send it to us, we will have votes on whether these people should testify and whether these documents should be made public and part of the trial, and the American People will be watching. They will be watching. Who is for an open and fair trial . Who is for hiding facts, relevant facts, immediate facts . Who is for covering up . I expect to discuss this proposal for a fair trial with leader mcconnell, but each individual senator will have both the power and the responsibility to help shape what an Impeachment Trial looks
like. In federalist 65, Alexander Hamilton wondered, quote, where else than in the senate could have been found a tribunal sufficiently signified or sufficiently independent to serve as a court of impeachment . What other body would be likely to feel confidence enough to preserve unawed and uninfluenced the necessary impartiality . My colleagues, lead are mcconnell, are you in Alexander Hamiltons words unawed and uninfluenced to produce the necessary impartiality, or will you participate in a coverup . Can we live up to hamiltons fine words with dignity, independence, confidence to preserve the necessary impartiality to conduct a fair
trial . That question should weigh heavily on every single senator. Mr. President , i yield the floor. Good morning. Craig melvin, msnbc headquarters in New York City at a pivotal hour in this Impeachment Process. That was Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer speaking about whats next in the Upper Chamber for the president s potential impeachment, the lions share of the senators speech devoted to basically expounding on the letter he wrote to Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell on sunday, insisting that four witnesses, four witnesses be allowed to testify there in the senate, acting Chief Of Staff mick mulvaney, acting Chief Of Staff, senior aide to mr. Mulvaney, also wanting an
official from omb to testify. John bolton, former National Security adviser, we just heard senator schumer once again make the case that they should be allowed to testify during a senate trial. Meanwhile soon, left side of your screen, it is going to be shifting to the house, back to the house. The House Rules Committee will be gavelled in for a hearing. Theres a live look inside that tiny room thats tucked away on the third floor there. They will be setting the results for tomorrows debate and vote by the full house on the two articles of impeachment against president donald j. Trump, abuse of power and obstruction of congress. Things will look a little different this hour. Two of the members of congress that weve seen asking questions will be answering questions. Its House Judiciary CommitteeRanking Member doug collins and democratic congressman jamie raskin, also on the Judiciary Committee. Hell be sitting in for chairman jerry nadler who has had some sort of Family Emergency were
told. We have put together the Perfect Group to walk us through this moment this hour. Msnbcs Grart Headache is on capitol hill, also with me, nbcs heidi przybyla. Glenn kirschnekirchner, Carlos Former republican congressman who represented the state of florida district there in florida. All three are msnbc contributors. Garrett, let me start with you on the hill. Weve watched this Process Play Out In The House intelligence and Judiciary Committee. We heard from the two most senior members of the u. S. Senate. What should we be watching for, listening for from the rules committee when they gavel in a few minutes from now . Unlike the other committees that have handled the impeachment and football so far, and the rules committee will have the opportunity to question one another. You may see democratic members questioning doug collins, republicans questioning jamie
rascon. Its more a back and forth pre sue of what well see on the floor tomorrow. Raskin is also on the oversight committee, so he handled the investigative part of this, the judiciary part of this. A lot of people think hell be an Impeachment Manager on the senate side, too. Hes a person our viewers should get used to seeing in this context. The other part of this hearing that might be more interesting in the afternoon. Its an open mic night quality. You may hear from some folks who have not been on the relevant committees so far, but want a chance to weigh in. If they do, they will also be a preview of what we expect to be the allday event tomorrow. The main event starting tomorrow morning. Most folks probably recognize Congressman Collins there who appears to be ready to go, standing next to that witness table. Chuck, its a committee hearing,
its not a trial. If you were in charge of asking for rules for this vote, what would be your priority . I come out of a system which rules are set, remain set, federal rules of evidence, federal rules of criminal procedure, They Dont Change Based On who the trial judge is or which Party Controls congress or the white house. What id like to see are a set of rules that permit a full and fair hearing, we hear from the witnesses, see documents. I would like, craig, and this may be pretty unrealistic, a set of rules that would remain regardless of who is in power in congress and regardless of who controls the white house. If its fair to hear from the witnesses under these set of circumstances with a Democratic House and democratic president , why wouldnt it be fair to do the same thing with a Republican House and a democratic president. What do you make of this argument that we heard from Senator Mcconnell last hour, that the primary reason democrats want to call witnesses now is because they rushed
through the process in the house . Well, they move swiftly, no question about that. Im not sure thats a bad thing. What we want in federal criminal cases is a swift resolution of charges. We have something called the Speedy Trial Act In Federal Court which holds us to a schedule and attempts to have the resolution as quickly and fairly as possible. This notion that we Rush To Judgment strikes me as rather unavailing. Theres no such thing well, let me say it this way. Swift justice can be fair justice. If we have the right witnesses and the right documents, theyve had an opportunity to be heard and cross examined, theres nothing wrong with moving quickly. Congressman curbelo, take us inside this room here. For folks who are watching or listening on sirius satellite radio, this is the House Rules Committee. By congressional standards, its
a small room, tiny room where youll hear from Congressman Collins from georgia who we just saw a few moments ago and congressman jamie raskin, a democrat from maryland. Congressman nadler had some sort of Family Emergency. Thats all the Information Weave gotten. After theyre done, any House Members allowed to testify. Whats going through the minds of your former colleagues as they get ready to set the ground rules . This is a committee that is not used to getting this much attention. It is a rather ab skewer committee, the House House Committee that meets in the capitol building, right outside the house gallery on the third floor, very Small Committee room. Its the only committee where the membership does not represent the proportion of the full house. So there are nine democrats and four republicans on the rules committee. Its the committee that the speaker uses to really control the House Of Representatives. The speaker Appoints The Nine members of the majority. Its also a committee where every member gets to have their say. As you said, craig, this will probably be a very long hearing because any member of the house can show up and be heard at that committee. The time limits arent the way were used to be seeing, like on the house floor where the members are very quick. These members can go on and filibuster as senators do in the Upper Chamber. This is an odd day for the rules committee. Even though its very obscure, a very Small Committee, it is extremely powerful as they will set the rules for debate in what will be a historic debate on the house floor tomorrow. Glenn kirchner, to say the process itself so far has been contentious would be quite the understatement. Is it possible to set up a list of rules that will keep order for tomorrows floor vote from
turning into a circus . Nothing is impossible. Is it likely . I dont know that its likely. Craig, if i can circle back to one of the excellent points that chuck was making about how justice can be swift and fair, i know were living in a post irony time. But when i hear Mitch Mcconnell at length that the houses work was too quick, it was too shallow, it was too narrow he went so far as to call it slapdash. I still find it ironic that one of the reasons it was shallow and narrow and quick if it, indeed, was all those things is because President Trump ordered the witnesses not to appear and testify. He ordered executive Branch Agencies not to produce the documents that were lawfully subpoenaed and sought by congress as part of the Impeachment Inquiry. So i think it still qualifies as irony for Mitch Mcconnell to somehow suggest that was a short coming of the house trying to execute its duties to do a thoughtful, fair and full investigati investigation. If it wasnt, the reason it wasnt is because of Donald Trumps obstruction. We just saw there the Committee Chairman jim mcgovern sit down. There he is right there, Congressman Mcgovern is the chair of the House Rules Committee. We also i believe a few moments ago saw Congressman Cole from oklahoma, the Ranking Member on the House Rules Committee. I dont believe weve seen congressman jamie rascon step into the room just yet. Again, this is expected to be gaveled into session any moment now. One of the first speakers already seated there, Congressman Collins from georgia. Heidi, there are, i believe, more than 30 House Democrats who sit in districts that President Trump won in 2016. Most of these swing district democrats over the last few days, nearly all of them have said they are going to be voting yes on impeachment. What do we know about the kind of pressure that these democrats specifically are facing back at home . We saw yesterday in the town hall that we covered live from alyssa slotkin, she is one of the democrats who i was told by republicans really had no chance of winning that district because it had been in republican hands for 20 years. I went there because of that, to kind of check it out. That was indicative of the sweep that we saw, sweeping democrats into power. You saw the protesters there. Im told these are people who would have never voted for her in the first place. That said, its really remarkable to watch all of these
documents who know that they are risking their Young Political careers, their promising political careers and laying themselves down on the tracks because they won in big trump districts. Lets listen in as the House Rules Committee is gavelled to order. Its unfortunate we have to be here today. The actions of the president of the United States make that necessary. President trump withheld congressionally approved aid to ukraine, our partner under siege, not to fight corruption, but to extract a personal political favor. President trump refused to meet with ukraines president in the white house until he completed this scheme. All the while, leaders in russia, the very nation holding a large part of ukraine hostage, the very nation that interfered with our elections in 2016 had yet another meeting in the Oval Office Just last week. These are not my opinions, these are uncontested facts. Weve listened to the hearings. We read the transcripts. Its clear that this president acted in a way that not only violates the public trust. He jeopardized our National Security. He undermined our democracy. He acted in a way that rises to the level of impeachment. That is why we are considering 755 today, a Resolution Impeaching donald john trump, president of the United States, for High Crimes And Misdemeanors. Congress has no other choice but to act with urgency. When i think back to the founders of this nation, they were particularly concerned about foreign interference in our elections. They understood that allowing outside forces to decide american campaigns would cause the fundamentals of our democracy to crumble. The evidence shows that is exactly what President Trump did. Not only allowed, but solicited foreign interference, all to help him win his reelection