Retribution. Moments ago nancy pelosi criticized the president for what she says is a lack of respect to a rule of law. Its related to a number of headlines hanging over the white house this morning. The Washington Post puts it bluntly the president is seeking to bend the executive branch as part of his impeachment vendetta and the pushback a minimal. The New York Times points out republicans are saying very little about it but there is one person who is speaking out, former chief of staff general john kelly is defending lieutenant kennel alan vndman, an impeachment witness who was abruptly dismissed from the National Security, literallies cor literally escorted off the ground on freethrow line. Ken dilanian covers National Security. Kelly, let me begin with you first. A lot of questions as to whether or not we are witnessing a newly emboldened president and more importantly how he is leaning into his executive powers. Well, we saw how the president got through the russia investigation and the Mueller Report without anything being directed at him in terms of any kind of legal jeopardy. Then we saw impeachment, impeached by the house, but acquitted by the senate. In both of these instances the president pushes back against the investigations and the democrats who were a part of those investigations and coming out of that with a year left in his term, the president is certainly looking to have people around him who support him. Weve seen what some have called the purge with removing from the National SecurityCouncil Lieutenant colonel vindman and his brother, though his brother was not an impeachment witness. We saw how Gordon Sondland the ambassador from the European Union was removed from his post and is out of the administration. And when it comes to trying to use his influence for friends, perhaps, like roger stone, a longtime political ally of the president who at times consulted for the Trump Campaign in 2016, convicted by a jury on seven counts. The president was asked about the potential of using that special power that is sort of unmatched power in government life and that is the power of the pardon. The president has used it a number of times in various cases, none so far related to these investigations. But the question was put to him again in the oval office yesterday. Heres how the president responded when. Are you considering a pardon . I dont want to say that yet but ill tell you what people were hurt viciously and badly by these corrupt people and i want to thank, if you look at what happened, i want to thank the Justice Department for seeing this horrible thing. I didnt speak to him, by the way, just so you understand. Reporter the president saying the possibility of a pardon is something he is not willing to say right now. He is very much making his point of view well known. The president is simply saying he claims a specific conversation between himself and william barr on the matter of this case where the Justice Department intervened when the recommended sentence of seven to nine years was brought forward. That of course triggered the abrupt resignations of four prosecutors. The president very much communicating but not doing it by phone or in person perhaps, using the power of his office and the twitter mega phone he has to let his feelings be very well known. I want to bring in ken dilanian into the conversation. You have been following the departures and movement of prosecutors. Certainly theres been a lot of criticism towards the Justice Department from allies of the president. Walk us through what you are learning and the effect it is having at the Justice Department. In is the thing. Its one thing for trump to replace people at the National Security council. Those people work for him, as troubling as it may be hes retaliating. The post watergate tradition is the president is not supposed to interfere with criminal investigations at the Justice Department. What we had this week is four prosecutors resigning a case as an act of conscience out of protest because their senior officials at the d. O. J. Essentially substituted their judgment and water wd downed do sentencing recommendation for a friend of the president. The president is saying he didnt ask for that. The question is did he have to . Hes been making public what he wanted done and he tweeted hours before that decision was made that the sentencing recommendation for roger stone was improper. So it created at a minimum the appearance of political influence and thats got people at the Justice Department freaked out frankly because thats the last thing they want. There is a sense that the Justice Department is independent, has integrity. This is about the rule of law in this country, and right now prosecutors and officials working at the d. O. J. , current former officials are telling us they are very deeply concerned that the attorney general is not on the level, that hes doing the president s bidding and that this could affect future cases. There are a number of cases that donald trump is interested in, not only roger stone but the case of mike flynn. A lot of angst at the d. O. J. Kelly odonnell, ken dilanian, thank you both very much. I want to bring in ken do. Jesse liu has officially resigned from the Treasury Department after President Trump withdrew her nomination as a top treasury official. I blelieve she was going to be the undersecretary for terrorism. You had somebody like jesse liu who was a u. S. Attorney involved in the investigation of roger stone, at least oversaw that investigation and trial, and is now resigning after her nomination has been withdrawn from the president. There is a principle among attorneys and as part of the ethics when an attorney is sworn in called noisy withdrawal. We are witnessing that in realtime now. Its the principle that if you are an attorney, you are an officer of the court. It doesnt seem like that to many, you think the officers of the court are the judge and b l bailiff and so forth. If an attorney has a client involved in wrong doing, thats when you see a notice of withdrawal. Typically you see that for a defense attorney, their client is going to continue to engage in a crime or wants to commit a fraud of the court. You rarely see it with prosecutors. The interesting thing about miss lius withdrawal is she is no free to speak. If she knows that direct communication that barr perhaps had with staff at d. O. J. Or with her, she can now testify it all of that and the white house would have a hard time block it. Let me play fror you guys a sound bite from Steve Mnuchin who was asked about this as to why her nomination for that post was withdrawn. Watch this. Can you tell me why your none nation was withdrawn . I think you know nominations are at the president s direction and we dont comment when nominations, as a matter of policy, when nominations are withdrawn, which happy for a variety of Different Reasons a the different times when thats done. Absent any plausible explanation, i hope you know youre more or less underoave k for two days, it appears this is another stop on the president s personal retribution tour. Let me get your reaction to the breaking news you just heard there. You had the explanation or lack the thereof essentially saying this is the president s decision and how we have been seeing the president behave over the last couple of days. It is hard to not look at this and say there are political sensitivities as to what jesse liu was doing and why her nomination was withdrawn. Brown said it beautifully, it is the president s retribution tour. Its like a mob boss, he survived and tries to eliminate anyone who was against him. Thats the reason why a lot of the norms that we have, including the idea that the Justice Department is independent, which is not in statute have to become law. The Justice Department has to become a kind of quasi Judicial Branch where the president cannot decide who gets prosecuted and who gets off. Weve been living with norms that we accept because honest people observe them but when you have somebody who is the equivalent of a mob boss in the white house, you have to protect these presents, which are not protected right now. Do you think this type of behavior by the president , he says he is not directly communicating to the department of justice as to what they should be doing, do you think it has a Chilling Effect across government . Absolutely. And its intended to have a Chilling Effect. Thats why he does it. The old roy cone philosophy. You not only must be seen to be doing something, you have to do it so people get scared. Part of the thing is the perversion of the for service officers, the civil servants. Government is populated by civil servants, not by these political appoint wes but its having a Chilling Effect on all those trying to do the right thing. Let me play what you nancy pelosi just said regarding the president watch this, guys. This is not what america is about. It is so wrong. Again, i keep public sentiment is making a judgment about this, but i would hope that republicans who respect the rule of law and i assume most of them do except for the aberration in the white house and his henchmen, that they would speak out on this, too, because it cannot stand. David jolly, your reaction to Speaker Pelosi saying she believes republicans believe in the rule of law. Youre a former republican. How do you grade the Republican Party today in the wake of everything that has happened . Nancy pelosi has a hope that i dont share. They have had their chanc rule of law. John kelly had his chance, bill barr had his chance, lindsey gram, marco rubio, rich scott, they have all had their chance to stand up to are the rule of law and they have failed to do so. Legacies are being forged in this moment. They will all be remembered as great republicans but they will be remembered for their failures to guard the very tenets of our democracy. 23 Senate Republicans will be on the ballot this november. They deserve to fall to defeat just as much as the president who continues to abuse the law and is being emboldened by these republican senators. It is literally happening in realtime during the show. I want to get you reaction from the white house on the next question, which is stormer chief of staff general john kelly is not holding back about his former boss. He spoke to a group of students last night. He in specific Lieutenant ColonelAlexander Vindman who testified in the impeachment trial and lost his position in the white house. This is what kelly reportedly said when vindman herd the president tell zelensky he wanted the president investigated, for vindman that was tantamount to an illegal order and we teach them dont follow an illegal order and if given one, youll address it to the person who gives it o you and then tell your boss. This is from the white house, when i terminated john kelly, which i couldnt do fast enough he knew full well that he was way over his head. Being chief of staff just wasnt for him. He came in with a bang, went out with a whimper but like so many exes he misses the action and just cant keep his mouth shut. Rick, your reaction to how this is playing the president direct live goily going after h chief of staff. Hes one of former officials who served for this president who now openly criticize him. I would tip my hat to general kelly for speaking out. Its something i wish he had done earlier. I thought it was so important that he talked about colonel vindman. Colonel vindman received an illegal order. The men and women in the military are trained not to obey an illegal order. He reacted the exact way you were supposed to. He was punished for obeying the law. He was not punished for disobeying the law. Thats the topsy turvy nater of this entire administration, where people are punished for doing the right thing and rewarded for doing the bad thing. David, let me get your reaction really quickly to general john kelly, someone criticized heavily for the immigration and family separation policy that some say he was a part ofdoes this fall on deaf ears the fact that you have people who leave the white house, and then decide to whe wheel in realtime while we are serving . Yes because it the same donald trump that they swore to frokt the country from. Donald trump is a bad guy who does bad things. When general kelly puts his military career, his honor on the line to advance the policies of a bad guy, you have to ask in this moment why should we listen to you now . Its as though after the wreck of the titanic the first made saturday i knew the captain was headed right to the iceberg but my job was to help him do it. Who cares what kelly says in this moment and bill barr says in this moment, we reject all of them. Food fight on the campaign trail. Nevadas Culinary Union is clashing with Bernie Sanders and his supporters over health care. Could this fight with the states Largest Union damage his chances at becoming the next president of the United States . Plus bill barr in the hot seat. The House Judiciary Committee is asking him to testify about his growing influence in cases tied to the president , but will he show . We will ask a member of that committee straight ahead. At fidelity, online u. S. Stocks and etfs are commissionfree. And when you open a new brokerage account, your cash is automatically invested at a great rate. Thats why fidelity leads the industry in value while our competition continues to talk. Talk, talk than Rheumatoid Arthritis or Psoriatic Arthritis. When considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz xr, a oncedaily pill for adults with moderate to severe Rheumatoid Arthritis or active Psoriatic Arthritis for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. It can reduce pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. Xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections like tb; dont start xeljanz if you have an infection. Taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra can increase risk of death. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. As have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, and changes in lab results. 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The clash with nevadas Culinary Union stems from a flyer the union sent out about 2020 candidates and their Health Care Plans and claims sanders plan would end Culinary Health care and require medicare for all. Since that flyer dropped, sanders his his supporters have viciously attacked him about his medicare for all plan. Joining me is one of the best obtained the flyer and set the political minds in the state, whole thing off with the back and forth. Jon ralston and maria urbina, talk to us about how you are reading the lay of the land right now between this Ongoing National political director and fight and the sanders campaign. Just to give you a little bit of context first, this is the second flyer that the Culinary Union, which has, as you mentioned, more members than any other union in the state that they put out in the last week. The first one obliquely attacked sanders and elizabeth warren, but the one that my reporter obtained and we put out a couple nights ago was specific in saying that sanders alone would end the culinarys health care plan. These folks are people who work in casinos. They have a Cadillac Health care plan. They have been worried about medicare for all for some time. Sanders, of course, has argued they shouldnt worry, that theyre going to get covered, that their cadillac plan will be matched and this will give them more flexibility to negotiate for wages but what happened as always happens with sanders supporters or i should say certain sanders supporters is once they came out against him, they went on to social media and they are vicious and nasty. Not most bernie supporters but there are a core of them who are and the union then responded yesterday with a statement saying, as you said, that they were viciously attacked.