Jeff sessions. Pete, weve confirmed that he was interviewed by the general couns counsel. What do we know . Well, that is 50 of it. The other 50 is that it happened last week and lasted several hours. Obviously the Justice Department or the special counsels office is not going to talk about what they talked about. But in shouldnt surprise anyone that this happened. Weve been asking the Justice Department repeatedly when is this going to happen, when is this going to happen and obviously they have decided not to let us know until after it was over. The New York Times first got wind of this this morning. Weve confirmed it as well. But it was foregone conclusion that at some point the special counsel would want to talk to Jeff Sessions for a couple reasons. Number one, if it is correct as is widely assumed that one of the things the special counsel is looking at is potential obstruction of justice in the president s firing of comey, Jeff Sessions played a role in that. We know in writing a memo to the president or a letter to the president saying he thought it was a good idea because of the positions that koecomey had tak publicly about the clinton email investigations, the way justice was left out of it and it was up to comey himself. So that is something they want to ask about. And secondly the attorney generals decision to recuse position from t mts fr himself from the russia investigation. But again something that you could clearly see coming. The Justice Department regulations are very clear about this, that if somebody was involved with a political campaign, they must recuse themselves ifs person who is campaigning is investigated. So it was off yugs sessibvious d have to recuse, but that has seemed to boether the president who has said he never would have appointed sessions in the first place if he thought he would recuse himself. But those are all reasons why mueller would want to talk to session. And i want to bring in Kristen Welker who is at the white house. This is the first cabinet member that has been interviewed that we know of by special counsel Robert Mueller. Significant in that what weve seen over the last few week has been this investigation getting closer and close ar to the president position. Thats right. No reaction yet here from the white house. But as pete said, no surprise to senior officials here and in fact weve heard Sarah Sanders repeatedly say from the podium that they expect this investigation to be cared out quickly, to be wrapped up quickly and the president s attorneys say that is the case. The president has expressed public frustration with sessions decision to recuse himself from the russia probe. He has attacked him on twitter, calling him beleaguered several months ago. But then in other areas they seem to be working in congress certificate like for the issue of daca is one example. When the attorney general announcedcert like for the issue of daca is one example. When the attorney general announced when they would end it in march if congress couldnt come up with a solution. That has been blocked subsequently in the courts, so that is an ongoing legal issue carried out. But again, this is something that continues to get closer and closer to the oval office and we know based on our conversations with our sources that the special counsel is having discussions with the president s legal team trying to determine the shape, scope and length of such an interview would the special counsel agree to the president submitting written answers to questions. These are very sensitive discussions. Im told and in light of what were learning about the attorney general being questioned, no surprise that those conversations about interviewing the president are ongoing as well. Kristen, thank you. Pete, do you have any sense one and done if there is going to be another interview with the attorney general or if this was pretty much it . I think this was pretty muit. Weve been asking repeatedly when is will going to happen. And i think it is correct that he is the first cabinet member to be interviewed, but i dont know what the significance of that is. I cant imagine there are many other cabinet members to be interviewed. I dont know the special counsel wants to talk to the secretary of agriculture. So i dont know what i mean, it is true, but what it means, i dont know. I think a lodge kalg thigical t wonder, does it mean this is about over. Normally in an investigation as the investigators sort of move up the chain of whatever they are looking it, if its a corporation or the Governors Office or something, you would think that they would save the interviews with the more senior people until the end. You think about the Hillary Clinton email investigation for example, she was the last person they interviewed. Soare trying to set up an interview with the president , talking with the attorney general, in a normal investigation, you would say it must be nearing an he saend. But this thing is anything but normal. Understatement of the day. Pete williams, thank you very much. Our lelg gal analyst is joining on the phone. Pete talked about this potentially signifying that maybe this is getting close to being over. Now that you have these very high level officials, cabinet level officials like Jeff Sessions talking with the special counsel. What is your sense . My sense is it will be a bit of an echo and it is true that ordinarily in a doj investigation like this, u. S. Attorneys will wait to talk to the big wigs until the end of the investigation. There are a few reasons for this. By this time they have developed their case or at least their theory on of the case and what they believe to be the facts and they have those all in their hands and ready to confront a witness and even worse catch that person in a lie because even though Jeff Sessions and other people might opt for the informal interview, if they lie to those agents, they may not be committing perjury because it is not sworn testimony, but under section 1001, the government can hold that over the heads of anyone and try to gaslight them at an informal interview or give them a false story. So this is a very rare occurrence where the head of the doj is being interviewed by essentially his subordinates, although moore is technically not his sub or tsubordinates. But surely there will be an fbi agent in the room taking notes and surely recording the interview which is not something the fbi has always done. Ordinarily this would be the end of the investigation, but in this case not necessarily. And i want you to hang tight if you can because i want to bring into a couple folks. Michael steele and also anne gearan and also tim alberta. Youve been listening to sort of this developing news breaking as we come on the air here. And michael, if youre the president , if you are in the oval office and youre watching now the banners on cable come across, your alerts on twitter, what is going through your mind . Oh, lords, what did he say to them. Because like of all of the players and actors in this particular drama, sessions is the weakest link. In the sense that he shows that he cant command the facts correctly. He is not really sure about this. Hell say would be thin and then hell have to clarify it and clean it up. And if you are the president , youre like how did that grill and those lights in that moment, what are you saying. And i think there is an uncertainty there. We dont know, it could be perfectly fine. But that is the question mark. And you look at the relationship between the president and the attorney general into the good onnot a good o. President trump has never from the beginning seemed to understand what the recusal was about. And that as Pete Williams laid out, it is actually mandated. Sessions couldnt have taken the job under any other sixes. He had been part of the campaign. He was there during a crucial period. Once that period game under investigation, that was it. I mean he was going to have to remove himself from heading that investigation. Overseeing the Justice Department during that investigation. Now the whole thing is sort of inverted. He is the head of the organization that has now investigated a lot of things, including him, and he has now been part of an interview that s is branch of the organization that he has. And you have to assume that he knew when he was going to be interviewed and that he communicated that to the white house. That ntd wouwouldnt be a breac communicate the fact that he was interviewed. We dont know what he said afterward. A good news bad news. Good news that this may suggest that the Mueller Investigation is finally approaching its conclusion. But bad news being that if in fact obstruction of justice is the central thrust of this investigation, that Jeff Sessions is sort of your star witness. Jeff sessions will be at the center of any questions of on obstruction of justice. So im sure the white house is relieved that it would appear that in the interview of Jeff Sessions that Robert Mueller is beginning to approach the natural conclusion of this investigation. But they have all got to be awfully nervous to michaels point about what he said. And danny, i think youre still with us. Do you have any sense who might be next . Given that weve seen as tim has called him the star witness perhaps for Robert Mueller, who is the next person to be hauled in or chatting with bob mueller . Ill gladly speculate because i dont think any investigation ends while he may not be the next person to come in, ultimately there will be requests and someone will speak to the President Donald Trump. What he does in response is anyones guess. Academics can disagree as to whether or not he has the pourer to refuse a subpoena. But if he just says nope, it will be interesting to see exactly what happens. But as for who is next, it is always hard to say because investigators will tell you they take the investigation where the facts lead them. But it would be completely a surprise if this investigation didnt very soon conclude with the interview of the President Donald Trump. And i would expect that both sides would prefer one of these free ranging more informal interviews which benefit both sides. President trump can have his lawyer present versus a grand jury. Versus grand jury testimony. I think that that will be the can exciting next step here for mueller and his team you say exciting . Yeah, absolutely. Under what conditions and what scenario do you get the president of the United States in front of the special prosecutor. And is that not under oath and not taking notes which is the conditions that they have complained were completely out of bounds when applied to Hillary Clinton. So joining us on the phone now is former Justice Department spokesman matt miller. Youve been inside the doj. The attorney general having interviewed with the special counsel. It is an intricate web. Talk through what it must be like inside the doj right now. You know, i think it puts the attorney general leadership in a completely difficult position because he had recused obviously because we know he is a witness, potentially a subject of the investigation. He is involved in two ways. Both on the obstruction of justice track and on the collusion track because he was involved in the campaign. Had meetings with george papadopoulous, meetings with russians were discussed. But he is also recused from any investigations related to Hillary Clinton. And weve seen that recusal get a little bit muddy. Youve seen the attorney general weighing in at times on some of these questions surrounding the fbi and whether agents were acting appropriately or inappropriately. So it gets to a point where it is very difficult for him to lead the department through troubling times when he is right at the center of that turbulence himself. And the same day on where there have been questions raised about the president s displeasure and unhappiness with the Justice Department, with fbi agents for example, with apply christopher wray. That the president raised concerns about andrew mccacabe. And wray said he would resign rather than fire mccabe who is resigning anyway. That is the shakespearian drama on the side of the white house where they poke these various characters and they whisper about them and say these thing to sort of create this sort of concern about them. And then once they get exposed, they back it down, oh, no, we stand with sessions, we stand with mccabe and all these folks. But they are sending the messages that they want to send inside those departments, they are watching, listening and not necessarily happy at all times. Matt, when Jeff Sessions does this interview with bob mueller, are there any special exceptions made since he is the attorney general, any kind of i thinform interactions that may happen given who he is . There may be a little bit of familiarity. You expect sessions to have more familiarity with the rules of these interviews than a normal wilt off t witness off the street, but i dont think that he would get any preferential treatment. And that extends not just to the interview, but if Jeff Sessions intentionally misleads the prosecuting team or the fbi investigators, i think you would see bob muellers team treat that with every bit of seriousness as they would any other witness. In fact, might even expect the head of the Justice Department would be held to a higher standard. No way to claim that he didnt know the rules in an fbi interview and he didnt know he wasnt allowed to mislead investigators. I dont know if Kristen Welker is still up at the white house, but i wonder whether the white house would have been given a heads up about this as i think michael or tim or anne raised here. Does yeah, it yeah, its a good question. And i dont have an answer to it right now. I can tell you know typically speaking the special counsel hasnt given a real heads up about any of these different moves. Weve seen that in the past as it has interviewed other people of interest in this investigation. Now President Trump at about 1 30 today is going to be doing a bill signing. Well be going in there and in the pool. Yeah, i can shout and ask questions. Exact exactly. And well get his reaction to all of this. Because as you point out, the bottom line is this is getting much closer to him getting much closer to his inner circle and weve seen that really nothing infuriates him more than this investigation which he has continued to call a hoax. Its a good point. And this is a president who has already raised questions i think back to that Michael Schmidt interview in which the president talked about how loyal eric holder was of then president obama and how he protected him. Sort of implying that he didnt believe that Jeff Sessions does that for him. And in the context of their turbulent relations, sessions and trump, can you imagine if the president is in fact finding out from Cable Television this morning that the attorney general was just interviewed has week . Boy, i mean that is a whole let me check my phone for any twitter feed. We all remember when the president took to twitter to dog his attorney general on social media and how upset it made allies of Jeff Sessions and some people were urging tim at that time to just resign and do the honk orable thing a honorable thing. But he weathered the storm. And you have to wonder if that in any way that personal relationship if it in any way shades the interactions that sessions had with mueller and the kinds of questions that he was asked and the kind of answers that he gave. Do you think that holds water at all, matt, as somebody who has been around the doj before . It absolutely does. What we have seen from the attorney general over the last 1e6 several months, someone trying to please the president. Youre supposed to be head of the Justice Department, enforce an end rule of law. But youve seen time and time again starting with the firing of jim comey and as recently as last night pressuring the fbi director to fighter deputy because thats what the president wanted. So you have to ask the question when he went into the interview, did he go this looking to be completely forth coming and volunteer every answer no matter it hurt the president or not or did he go in and answer only questions he really had to and conveniently desire thcide that couldnt recall others. And to answer the question about whether the president would have been notified, it would have been inappropriate for Jeff Sessions staff to make that kind notification to the white house because their responsibility is it to the Justice Department. But he does have private counsel chuck cooper, and his counsel could have notified the president s counsel as i assume other witnesses have been doing and the president would have found out in that matter. There are nods all around the table about that. And michael, you were going yeah, that is yeah that is exactly the process. I cant imagine sessions having that conversation with the special down he wicounsel and n alerting the white house that this was going to take place. Ken delaney has a little more. What does this interview tell you about the investigation . Well, actually, its sort of a mystery. I wish i had good answers for you. But it does suggest in one sense that Robert Mueller may be proceeding to a conclusion particularly on the obstruction of justice aspect of his inquiry. Because you would want to go up the chain and interview every official who had knowledge of the firing of james comey and the surrounding events. And there arent very many officials w