Winter. Talk us through the headlines this morning, particularly with david pecker, this immunity deal and what prosecutors think he knows. Hallie, it is a great question. This is specific to count 7 that Michael Cohen pled guilty to on tuesday. Basically, the American Media company was involved. According to the court filings, and what Michael Cohen said in court, they were involved in a payment to karen mcdougal, who says she had an affair with the president of the United States. The president has denied that affair. However, what was set up here was to pay her for her story. Then kill the story, in other words, not publish the story. This is all part of count 7. Basically, if youre federal prosecutors moving toward an indictment, our reporting is that they were going to indict Michael Cohen yesterday. Instead, late last week, he decided, and over last weekend, he decided he wanted to come in and perhaps put together a plea. Basically, if youre going to set up and have a trial, you need people to testify and people to potentially walk you through evidence, people to potentially guide you through the information and various documents of what you might be getting, both from cohen but other subpoenas served in the case, at that point, you need to have somebody who can talk to you about it. Whether or not the discussion occurred in a grand jury, whether it went to trial, you needed somebody to testify on the witness stand. Somebody can say, i can tell you the whole story, but a percentage of the story might put me in a little bit of legal jeopardy, if thn that case, somy might say, id like immunity. Id like the ability to tell you everything i know without fear of any reprisal based on what i say. There are various different types of immunity. We saw use immunity in the Paul Manafort trial, for example. Anything anyone said on the stand couldnt be used against them. It was concise to that trial. There are different types of immunity. Were trying to figure out what he might have offered. Todd, i want you to stand by a second. Ill ask you to talk about another story, too. Want to bring in from new york the former assistant u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of washington. Zeke miller is joining us. Im glad youre here. Talk me through the idea of the process of granting immunity. You know the sdny. You used to work for the sdny. What do you have to say or do to get the jail out of free card . Heres the process, hallie, if were interested as a Southern District in talking to someone we think may be a witness, well subpoena them. If they respond by taking the fifth amendment, saying, i may have some criminal exposure here, and ill invoke my right to silence, that is usually the end of it. The Southern Districts comeback is to go to a court and say, we need immunity for this individual. The fact that david pecker has immunity tells me two important things. First of all, he has some potential criminal exposure. It is probably more marginal, again, as tom said. Probably not enough to require him to take a plea. But he is involved in some shady business. The other thing i take out of it is that the prosecutors are willing to pay for it. I dont mean monetarily, but going and getting immunity is a significant step that we dont do lightly. Interesting. That gives us a little bit of a clue about what mr. Pecker may have. Tom has been intentionally careful in all his reporting and on the broadcast now about saying what exactly we think based on our reporting david pecker may have said to prosecutors. I wont overstep that. Ill ask you this, if, in fact, we know it has to do with the hush money payments, because it is central to the case, we also know that Michael Cohen and donald trump seem to reference david peck ner in this conversation the two of them had in relation to karen mcdougal. I want to play a little of the interaction and then ask you about it. I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that up foe regarding our friend david. You never know where that company you never know what hes going to be maybe he gets hit by a truck. Correct. Im all over that. If, in fact, david pecker maybe told prosecutors more about what donald trump did or did not know about that payment, can you talk about what the significance, perhaps legally, of that would be . Yeah. So, if theyre using money to pay off people in order to protect the president ial campaign, that technically is either a campaign contribution, if it is coming from somebody else, or a campaign expenditure, if it is coming from the president himself, as the president suggested yesterday on fox news. Either way, it is going to be a crime if it is, a, over the limit and, b, not reported. The president s argument yesterday of, well, it came from my pocket, really doesnt help him much. What id be interested in knowing, if i had a chance to sit with david pecker, is how long has this been going on . The farther back in time, a, could be more individuals paid off and, b, could be related to the president s knowledge. Donald trump and david pecker have known each other a long time. It is not a campaign era friendship. Look at the relationship here. The cozy relationship with donald trump dates back years, well before he decided to run for office. National inquirer did a poll that said i win. In 2013, trump raise etrump r to one the magazine. There were rights bought about damaging stories, then never published it. Like the woman saying she had sex with donald trump years ago, which he denied. It is known as catch and kill. The president said this after the rnc in 2016. This was a magazine that, frankly, in many respects, should be very respected. They got oj. They got edwards. I mean, if that was the New York Times, they would have gotten Pulitzer Prizes for their reporting. Ive always said, why didnt the National Inquirer get the Pulitzer Prize for edwards and o. J. Simpson and all of these things . Perhaps no surprise, the president likes the inquirer. Look at the stories they were pub you been lishing befo publishing before the election. Antihillary clinton. We put together some of the covers there. You can see, for example, saying she was racist, criminal, corrupt, spreading conspiracy theories about clinton at the time. Very protrump. Chelsea clinton we acting, saying, i appreciate my mom. This is a longtime relationship, though one that appears to have headed south. Certainly if pecker is cooperating and the criminal information in the cohen case made it seem like pecker did provide information, that he was in on it. Then President Trump might have another rat to contend with in his word. There is another piece of this, too. I want to bring tom winter back. The New York Times is reporting overnight, and you and i, confession to the viewers, i called you at 6 00 this morning and this broke and i was doing the today show. Reporting that the Manhattan District Attorneys Office is considering possibly bringing criminal charges against the trump organizorganization. There is a caveat. If it were to happen, were talking early days. This thing is down the road, right . Put this into context. Sure, hallie. Couple things, count 7, the one i referenced earlier, provides a road map for the manhattan d. A. To say because within the conversation, there are Trump Organization executives that are talking about how to account for sorry count 8 how to account for the pay back for cohen to stormy daniels. They also talk about how they should account for those on their corporate books. If youre the Manhattan District Attorneys Office, youre saying, theyre accounting on the corporate books for legal counsel, but we clearly know it is a payment. Wait a minute, there could be an issue here with respect to how we account for it. It is the quick legal theory behind it, the 15second version. The Manhattan District Attorneys Office is looking at this, at manaforts transactions. The new York AttorneyGenerals Office has been doing the same thing. They obviously put together a significant civil case with the trump foundation. I think all of this, both sides are pretty much consistent, that they need to wait for the investigations to wind down. Itll take time. For sure. Interesting thing about this when we talk about a state investigation or state charges or a state conviction, the president does not have pardon power there, which leads me to bring in nbcs kelly odonnell, who is on the north lawn of the white house. When we talk about pardons, weve now heard from Rudy Giuliani. Our team spoke with his team, Rudy Giuliani and his legal team overnight, about the idea that the president is pressing pause on the pardon button, if you will. Reporter hallie, we know this is a power unique to the president , that he has enjoyed and has gotten some benefits from in certain instances, where hes intexercised it. Freeing a woman on the behest of kim kardashian. Got favorable press for that. Criticism when he pardons joe arpa arpaio. This is something he intends to use again, based on his own comments, but not at this time for people involved in the russia investigation. The giuliani side tells us there have been broad conversations about the president s exercise of the pardon power, but Nothing Specific to a Paul Manafort. Certainly, we dont see any evidence a Michael Cohen would be on the president s wish list when it comes to a pardon. This is important because of how it would be received publicly. Pardons often bring about reactions on all ends of the spectrum. There are times when a president is applauded for righting some wrong or giving someone a wellearned break, and there are times there is a lot of criticism over their use of the power, if people believe it was motivated by something less than the best sense of what the Justice Department would authorize. For this president , a power that he likes, maybe one hes willing to put in his pocket for a while, at least according to Rudy Giuliani, even though in looking at the president s Public Comments about paul manafo manafort, there has been a friendly tone that he has been sort of putting out there, suggesting that map fort is a brave man. You might argue that that would be a subject worthy of giving him the pardon consideration. The important thing theyre saying right now, broad conversations a while ago. Nothing current. Hallie . Kelly odonnell, thank you, my dear. See you at the white house in a little bit. Zeke, ill get you in on this idea of where weve been this week. You have the news about not just Michael Cohen, right, the idea that he has turned on his former boss. You have Jeff Sessions, who has gotten, obviously, very frustrated with his poss, as well, saying the doj is not going to be improperly influenced. You have david pecker granted immunity. These are onetime allies of the president who have now turned on him, who are doing the opposite of what a friend would do. We know one of the things about donald trump is he prides loyalty, among other qualities. He surround himself with people he believes are trustworthy and owe him something and are beholden to him. Were seeing here, like dominos, all the people at various stages in his business, political, personal career, who he thought were on his side, are now proving to be not so loyal now that hes in the political environment. Political environment or the Legal Environment . Both. Hes been in the political environment for a while. This is also ultimately a political context. Yeah. Certainly, talking to prosecutors and things like that. Were also seeing political allies turn on him. It is an issue for him. Zeke and tamara, ellie, tom, thank you. Kelly odonnell, thank you, as well. We have much more to discuss coming up in the show. Specifically on the allies turned adversaries. The president is clapping back at Jeff Sessions clap back. In person, theyre all good. Well get into the dynamic developing between donald trump and one of his top cabinet members as support for the gop starts to crumble. I was just finishing a ride. I felt this awful pain in my chest. I had a pe blood clot in my lung. I was scared. I had a dvt blood clot. Having one really puts you in danger of having another. My doctor and i chose xarelto®. Xarelto®. To help keep me protected. Xarelto® is a latestgeneration blood thinner thats. Proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt or pe blood clots from happening again. In clinical studies, almost 98 of patients on xarelto® did not experience another dvt or pe. Xarelto® works differently. Warfarin interferes with at least 6 of your bodys natural bloodclotting factors. Xarelto® is selective, targeting just one critical factor. Dont stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase risk of blood clots. While taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. Xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. It may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. Get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. Do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. Before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. Learn all you can. To help protect yourself from another dvt or pe. Talk to your doctor about xarelto®. This wifi is fast. I know i know i know i know when did brian move back in . Brians back . He doesnt get my room. Hes only going to be here for like a week. Like a month, tops. Oh boy. Wifi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. In many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40s. President trump is not insulting his attorneyjoegener but hes telling him how to do his job. The president tweeting, referencing sessions pushback yesterday. Quoting, department of justice will not be improperly influenced by consideration. Tweeting, jeff, which is great, what everyone wants. Looking to all the corruption on the other side, adding, open up the papers and documents without redaction. Come on, jeff. You can do it. The country is waiting. Those comments come after two key republicans kind of changed their tune, opening the door for the president if, in fact, he really does want to fire Jeff Sessions. First, heres what senator Lindsey Graham said last year in 2017. Watch. This effort to basically marginalize and humiliate the attorneygeneral is not going over well in the senate. If Jeff Sessions is fired, there will be holy hell to pay. So, Flash Forward to this week. Clearly, attorney genergene sessions doesnt have the confidence of the president. All i can say is i have a lot of respect for the attorneygeneral, but thats an Important Office in the country. After the election, i think, there will be some serious discussions about a new attorneygeneral. Then there is the powerful chair of the Senate Judiciary committee, senator grassley. Hes said there would not be time to confirm a replacement for sessions. Now, hes telling bloomberg, quote, i have time for hearings on nominees the president would send up that i didnt have last year. Joining me now, kayltie bennett for the New York Times. And chuck rosenberg, former u. S. Attorney for the Eastern District of virginia. Tamara and zeke are back, too. Katie, sources are telling nbc news that Administration Officials say there is no indication the president is planning to fire Jeff Sessions right now. However, bob corker told politico, it is apparent after the midterms hell make a change and choose someone to do what he wants done. Based on your reporting, is that kind of the expectation here . Come christmas, Jeff Sessions will have a new job . Weve been wondering about when sessions would be fired for a long time. After the midterms makes sense. Basically, the president is allowed to fire Jeff Sessions. We know he doesnt like him. Hes not happy with the job hes done. The risk of firing him before the elections suddenly creates a cloud. Did the president do something to either obstruct or interfere in ongoing investigations into he and his associates . If so, it could have a Ripple Effect that hurts republicans going into the midterms. There is no way it could happen before the election, we hope. If it happens at all, it would happen after. Chuck, what do you make of that . Heres the odd thing, the president s upset with the attorneygeneral, essentially for two things, and both are appropriate, at least from a attorneygeneral standpoint. He recused himself, which he had to do in the russia investigation. It was the right thing to do. Yesterday, finally, after so many months, he stood up for the men and women of the department. Stood up for the rule of law. Finally. Hallelujah. Thats why the president is upset. It is a tremendous irony. Hes not upset because he is a lousy attorneygeneral. Hes upset because the attorneygeneral is finally acting like an attorneygeneral. Another person who used to be an attorneygeneral, gonzalez, was talking about this, and we found it interesting. Watch. What i fear is the constant criticism of the attorneygeneral. It makes the president appear weak to some people. He criticizes and does nothi