Katy Tur hosts coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories. Something extraneous to the facts of the investigation just to get them to lie. That is clearly not whats going on here. Mueller has 100 valid reasons to want to talk to trump. What we have here is a perjury risk. Its a great risk. Thats because trump isnt capable of telling the truth, and particularly when he knows he is in trouble if he does. So if itts not a perjury trap, which is a technical term. This audio leaked of devin nunes, its not surprising he is carrying water for the president , but it is surprising he would say on the record out loud, out loud to a number of donors, that it ultimately Doesnt Matter What Mueller comes out with, that sessions Wont Unrecrews Ause and its j. Its just up to us to protect the president. Thats saying if Robert Mueller comes back and says we found conspiracy, we found whatever, it doesnt matter for the republicans . Is that a widely held belief or
it is an unprecedented level of corruption around this president , around this presidency, around washington, d. C. Unprecedented in the modern era. I do think that human beings have a tendency to think we are live in the best of times or the worst of times, and we lose historical perspective. But the amount of lying, his daily incitement of, his scapegoating of minority populations, his creation of a great victim class that thinks there is the victims of a conspiracy in the aforementioned scapegoated minority populations, all of these things that were seeing play out every day are not normal, and they are, frankly, unprecedented around the office of president of the United States. And they are unprecedented in any healthy democracy anywhere. Getting back to Rudy Giuliani and the president s strategy specifically when it comes to Robert Mueller, take a listen or take a look at what aaron blake and the Washington Post
is writing about today. Warning that a prolonged investigation is potentially going to reflect poorly on mueller. The prolonged nature of the whole thing has also some potential Strategic Value for the trump team and negative consequences for mueller. Polls suggest that americans are gradually growing impatient with the investigation and in some cases are warming to trump and his allies arguments against the legitimacy. The longer this goes on the more the feelings have a chance to fester and the more people might begin to doubt that mueller has the goods. Now take this reporting from Axios On Giulianis Media Strategy for the mueller probe. Giuliani is publicly setting up mueller with expectations. He must know mueller cant meet them. There is no way mueller is wrapping this thing up by September 1st and there is no way mueller will agree to an interview with trump on the condition he wont ask two of the critical questions about obstruction of justice. By claiming them as reasonable acts when mueller ultimately
doesnt deliver by labor day, he helps fuel the bases rage through the midterms. Phil, does that line up with the reporting that you are gathering and what you are hearing from inside the white house and inside this legal team . Yeah. And thats absolutely right, katy. That is in line with the reporting i am hearing. There are a couple of things going on here. On the one hand, trump and his team are trying to say its time for mueller to put up or shut up and tell the American People what he found, what he hasnt found, clear the president , close up shop and move on. Mueller needs that interview with the president. The Special Counsel feels a need to question the president about these events not only during the campaign, but obviously the Special Counsel wants to talk to him about actions he took as president , which are the most sensitive in the mind of trumps lawyers. And trumps lawyers are slowing this down. They are not they are rejecting the terms of muellers interview of the therg dragging it out and calling for it to speed up and be over, and that
just doesnt square. I am hearing from trumps allies they are going to be making an Impeachment Argument in the midterm elections, warning trump voters if you dont vote in november to keep the house in republican hands, the democrats, if they take over the majority of the house of representatives, agenda item number one is impeachment. Impeaching president trump. They are making the case that the midterms are all about protecting the trump presidency, which is what you saw in that devin nunes audio. Mimi . I wanted to point out something in that Washington Post article. Its not the longer it takes, the more we question Whether Mueller has the goods. The longer the investigation takes, the more likely it is hes finding things to keep investigating. Robert mueller is not going to be wasting his time with 13 or however many investigators it is, and fbi agents, working on
this if there is nothing there. I am not saying ohow many peopl will be indicted. There is clearly real conduct for them to be looking at, as has already come out. They are facing a president and his team and supporters who are continually hammering the investigation and trying to undercut it. Look at the Favorable Unfavorable numbers for mueller. 32 favorable. 36 unfavorable. Steve . Lets talk about the political strategy here. Its a desperate political strategy. When you look at the special election in ohio, if it was president marco rubio, this republican would have won by 15 points. But because its president trump, the republican barely beat a democratic candidate. And so all of the signs point to a blue tsunami coming, but in a fight. There are only two ways to win. You can bring your opponent to submission. Think germany and japan after world war ii. Or you can break their will to fight. Think of the United States in the vietnam war. The strategy is fundamentally one about exhausting and wearing out the will to fight and resist of democratic voters by inciting the base. Trump needs that basin cited. He needs it to turn out to hold back as best as possible this blue wave is coming, and the degree to which they constantly lie, its disorienting. People cant get their heads around the facts because people arent used to responsible political leaders constantly lying to them. So when you talk to democratic voters, you talk to democrats, you talk to people who oppose trump, one of the main features that they will tell you is how they are exhausted by all of it. And so exhaustion of your opponent becomes a fundamental strategic aim of the constant lying, the constant gaslighting, the constant scapegoating. Any diminution of republican turnout is going to be fatal, and will simply increase the
size of the majority. Of course, impeachment will polarize the electorate, but it will drive turnout favorably for deputies. Its a very dangerous strategy for this president. Its a Strat Zwri Egy to divd fall, if thats of course. He has never made any pretense about being president of the country. He is the first president of the United States who is the leader of a faction. A leader of a minority faction that is increasingly at war with the rest of the country. Steve schmidt, you are staying with us. Phil rucker, mimi rocca, thank you so much. Next, chris collins, scott pruitt, team trump has a corruption problem. Do voters care . But on the inside, i feel chronic, widespread pain. Fibromyalgia may be invisible to others, but my pain is real. Fibromyalgia is thought to be caused by overactive nerves. Lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. Im glad my doctor prescribed lyrica. For some, lyrica delivers effective relief from moderate, to even severe Fibromyalgia Pain and improves function. Lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. Tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or blurry vision. Common side effects dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs, and feet. Dont drink alcohol while taking lyrica. Dont drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. Those who have had a drug or Alcohol Problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. With less pain, i can do more with my family. Talk to your doctor today. See if lyrica can help. My gums are irritated. I dont have to worry about that, do i . Actually, you do. Harmful bacteria lurk just below the gum line. Crest gum detoxify works below the gum line to neutralize harmful Plaque Bacteria and help reverse early gum damage. And, now theres new crest gum enamel repair. It gives you clinically proven healthier gums
and helps repair and strengthen weakened enamel. Gum detoxify and gum enamel repair, from crest. Gums are good, so is my checkup crest. Healthy, beautiful smiles for life. Are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi. . A more powerful way to stay connected. It gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most Wifi Coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. Its the ultimate wifi experience. Xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. Associates are shaping the v. A. This is on top of the gaggle of former around Current White House officials under fire for lavish spending because who could forget scott pruitt or tom price . Then there are those in trumps orbit who have been charged with lying to investigators. His former campaign chairman, his former Deputy Campaign manager, his First National security advisor, his former Foreign Policy advisor. As msnbcs first read puts it this morning, the party of trump has a corruption problem. Will the voters care . Back with me msnbc contributor Steve Schmidt and joining us is msnbc political analyst elise jordan. They are the mosts of the new podcast words matter, which debuted this week. Congratulations on the cast. Thank you very much. Thank you for that wonderful intro. Of course. I cant wait to listen to it. So i could have gone on with that intro. There were things we left out. Thats whats remarkable about this. There were a ton of things we left out. We could have gotten into the
trump d. C. Hotel. We could have got into the emaluments. But this level of corruption, what does it say about this administration and those donald trump surrounds himself . Its Donald Trumps main goal has been to enrich himself. Its always about donald trump. About his personal self interests. The most disturbing trend is in Foreign Policy where we arent sure the decisions being made, say to cozy up to saudi arabia has anything to do with Jared Kushner and his family. By being so blatant about their own personal interests, it enables everyone else in the Trump Administration to follow the lead and the tone thats set from the top. Weve seen it from the private planes to the Stock Trading by a member of congress who is one of trumps earliest supporters to now the v. A. , to members of
president s personal club who are overseeing the second largest bureaucracy in the u. S. Government. Steve, there is a poll taken by the Progressive Center for American Progress action fund that the Corruption Message is gaining traction against the gop. 54 of voters across 48 republican held congressional districts said republicans are more corrupt than democrats compared with 46 who said democrats are more corrupt. And even higher number of independents hold republicans responsible for corruption. 60 . Seems like this sounds like another election that we went through, i dont know, in 2006 or going back to the 90s . Small potatoes corruption. If you go back to 2006, you look whats going on in washington, d. C. Today, the culture around the lobbying community, jake abramov looks like a piper compared to these people. I mean, this is full on Banana Republic stuff. This doesnt happen in healthy
liberal dem ocracies. Its utterly lawless. The greed, corruption. Who is more corrupt, republicans or democrats . It speaks to a staggering failure on the part of the Democratic Party and its leaders to prosecute a case against this lawless and corrupt administration because what this administration is doing is ripping off the American People, and its not penny annie ripping off. Its wholesale stealing. Wholesale corruption. It is a level of disgustingness and behavior that is not ever been seen in the modern era in this country. Could it be hard for democrats to find one thing to target . They target so many things that the message just gets lost . I use this analogy. Its not perfect, but i like it. Donald trump is a man who has a stain on his shirt, a hot dog
mustard stain. Instead of changing his shirt, he gets ketchup on it and relish and hot sauce and grease. You end up looking at the shirt and saying, oh, thats the way the shirt is supposed to look. Thats a really dirty, nasty shirt. It needs to be boiled and put it with a bunch of bleach and stripped and cleansed. Thats what i think. And i think thats what the democrats message should be that this more as of corruption is intolerable and thats what they should be campaigning on. They shouldnt be talking about treason. They should be talking about how taxpayers are funding the personal enrichment of donald trump and his family and his cabinet. And they should put a plan forward to clean it up. If donald trump is voted out of office, are you going to rejoin the Republican Party . Are you going to feel better about the Republican Party . Not if they are putting money towards to Child Molesters in alabama like they did last year. Not if they are Funding Candidates that have credible
allegations of sexual assault. Not if they are, you know, the head of the rnc finance has been accused by many, steve nguyen, before he resigned. Unless they clean house, too, i dont see myself going lock step and barrel behind the Republican Party again because its just wrong. Thats not to mention the baby internment camps, the indecency, the cruelty, the meanness, the lying, the complicit nature of this republican majority with an attack on the country thats launched by the russian federation. So the Republican Party of Teddy Roosevelt and john mccain and Ronald Reagan and george w. Bush is dead. Its over. It doesnt exist anymore. It has been taken over lock, stock, and barrel. For there to be any redemption of a right of center Conservative Party in the United States of america means the party of trump must be destroyed politically. Its like a fire. Fires are a part of the
ecosystem. Part of the natural progress. And when the forest burns, its purified. There can be new growth. For there to be new growth of a conservative movement, of a right center party, the one that i joined in 1988, it needs to burn to the ground. And this is what we are going to be talking about on our podcast about how we do that, how we wrest away the ideals of personal liberty and individual responsibility and a Strong Defense without ballooning the national deficit. Yes. Words matter. Elise and steve, great to see you in person. Always good to see you. Up next, there is a storm brewing. The fact is, there are over ninetysix
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difference maker. Is he . Well, he could be in districts where, you know, getting a couple thousand more Republican Voters will make the difference. But you dont know where those are exactly, number one. Number two, you dont know whether his entry into the district will stimulate 3,000 or 4,000 democratic voters to come to the polls in response to his presence. I you were on the trail with him. Lets say the polling looks bad in october, looks like the house is gone and there isnt much hope. Does he go on the road or does he want to distance himself . I think he goes on the road. He goes on the road. He loves being on the road. The roar of the crowd and the events in the reiarenas are a feedback loop. I think he truly believes he can lift people out. If you look at whats out there for the midterms. There is 60 plus seats that have a less favorable position for
republicans than ohio did. 68 seats out there where democrats have a better chance of retaking it. And if donald trump shows up in those districts, john kasich said in ohio that donald trump showing up served to alienate women. That does it do for democrats . I think he will make a difference on the democratic side. I think he will stoke the flames of excitement that in some ways democrats view this, the midterms, as a kind of vote for their lives, to quote donny deutsche. If donald trump shows up as an actual presence this those elections, i think its just going to excite them and motivate them more. So according to the report, the eight special elections that weve seen since the 2016 election, democrats have outperformed their 2016 performance by eight points on average. That is a wave number, as they say, because thats just those are specials. Those are indications of a
deficit of republican enthusiasm and a huge surge of democratic enthusiasm, and those 68 seats, i mean, if you take a more conservative calculation, there are 36 republican seats in play according to some calculations, and three democratic seats. So, in other words, democrats have a chance, strong chance of taking 36 seats. Democrats only have a chance of mitigating that with three republican seats. I think whats interesting about that number, you look at michigan, for example, we saw record turnout last night. An interesting race, right . Among the folks on the democratic side who are turning out, i am interested in drilling down the numbers of the new voters turning out. Not just simply the base, the folks who arent excited about clinton. I am thinking about people who Werent Turning Out before who are now turning out. This is the importance of
ocasiocortez. Its who she got to the polls. I think its important to note how much money is being spent on special elections. Outside groups of republicans, 47. 7 million. Outside groups to democrats, 12. 3 million. The republicans are spending a ton of cash and still only coming away with narrow wins, at best. Right. And the Congressional Campaign committees, i think the numbers are in reverse. Like the democrats are doing better than the republicans, which is the first time in ages that that is true. Now, one thing that should be mentioned is that it has been the case over the last ten years that Republican Voters generally turn out in higher numbers in midterm elections than democrats. This election will be a test of that because of the trump factor and whether or not democrats are driven to the polls to stop trump the way republicans were driven to the polls in 2010 to stop obama, to stop the obama agenda. Lets read the oped. The red wave illusion. The president has been tweet being this. He believes there is a red wave. Heres what the journal thinks. Our sense is that Republican Voters havent recognized how much jeopardy the party is in. Many are content to listen only to their safe media spaces that Repeat Illusions about a red wave and invoke 2016 when the media said mr. Trump couldnt win. Nearly all the media does want democrats to win again and humility was one of the lessons we learned from the surprises of 2016. Thats not an excuse of ignoring the evidence of gop trouble. Mr. Trump won against the weakest democratic candidate since Michael Dukakis and Hillary Clinton is not on the ballot this year. There is polling to suggest there is a blue wave coming. We talk about a lot. I have that 2016 mentality inside me, listen, i dont think we should discount trump, the republicans. Everybody thought he was going to lose and the republicans were going to be at a real deficit in
2016. It was the exact opposite. There were a number of factors that happened in 2016, obviously, there was Hillary Clinton, right . Thats the first thing. And then there was a kind of depressed voter turnout. Africanamerican Numbers Didnt Show up at the same rate. The Obama Coalition didnt turn out. Then there was voter suppression. What happened in michigan . What happened in North Carolina and other places . What happened . Two of those things arent in play. Well see. Well see. So i think we are going to see an interesting kind of excitement that will impact. Election. So 2016 might not be the wisdom to be invoked in this instance. Very quickly, the polling in the special elections has been very good. Not bad. The polling in 2016 thats true. Its been the polling in ohio 12 was perfect. One poll had balderson. One poll by one. The democratic up by one. They are tied. The notion that the polling is bad is something that you cant say is the case this year so far. We will see. Thank you very much. Up next, a cranky judge and a flawed star witness. Why United States versus Paul Manafort might not be a slam dunk for prosecutors. If youre turning 65, youre probably learning
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the financial crimes, charges facing the former Trump Campaign chairman. Yesterday the prosecution asked an irs Revenue Agent to provide a grand total of all the Business Income that Paul Manafort did not report on his Income Tax Returns between 2010 and 2014. The answer . 16,471,000,000,000. He spent it on clothes, houses, antiques and home improvements. What many legal experts say should be a slam dunk for Special Counsel rahm emanuel, namely, a cranky judge and a flawed witness. Joining me in alexandria, barbara mcquade. She is also an msnbc contributor. You have been sitting in on this trial. Im just curious, whats going on with judge ellis . Is it normal the way he is going after the prosecution . Reporter well, its not something you see in most cases. I am told it is normal for this judge, that he is cranky. He is extremely hands on. He has a very set idea in his mind about how a case should be tried. And if the prosecution does anything other than whats in his mind, he works hard to shut them down. Its been frustrating at times. Although i sense that he is softening a little bit. Early in the trial he was not allowing the prosecutors to publish or display in open Court Admitted exhibits, which is a routine thing to do. He accused them of trying to gild the lily by showing photos of the fancy suits that Paul Manafort bought and the luxury cars and the like. Now that we are into financial documents and tax records he is allowing them to show the jury, which i think important. To be able to go back later and look at the things would be far too difficult for the jury. They are seeing these documents as the witnesses are discussing them. How successful has the
defense been in painting rick gates as a witness that isnt credible . As a witness they cant trust . Reporter well, i think during the crossexamination of Rick Gates He came across as an untrustworthy person. I thought he was needlessly evasive and argumentative with the defense on crossexamination. I think they did score some points. But what the prosecution has done well is to corroborate rick gates testimony with the Witness Testimony of other people and documents. I think the jury can be left with the idea that they dont like rick gates whatsoever and they dont thrurust him, but everything he said was supported by documents and other witnesses and they can believe them. Rick gates provided some important color in connecting some of the dots, in explaining how things worked together. So i can see why the government thought it was important to call him. But i think that especially in light of some of the evidence we have seen in the last couple of days, some very dry bank records, tax records. But they do Support Everything that rick gates was having to say that i think that the government has recovered from whatever dents they took from rick gates. Yesterday Julia Ainsley noticed that some of the jury members were nodding off during the trial. Anything noticeable or notable about the jury today . Reporter no. They seem to be doing their best to be attentive. They take notes. It is rather dry stuff. It is a lot of financial records. This is a lot of stuff that occurs in federal court across america every day. Its not always fireworks or excitement. I sense they are taking their job very seriously. Its dry information, but the important thing is that it comes in, into evidence so that the lawyers can arg youue about it closing argument. Barbara, thank you for joining us. Next up, everything you love will burn. But he has plans today. So he took aleve this morning. Hey dad. If hed taken tylenol, hed be stopping for more pills right now. Only aleve has the strength stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. Tylenol cant do that. Aleve. All day strong. All day long. Now introducing aleve back and muscle pain, for up to 12 hours of pain relief with just one pill. The smoother the skin, the more comfortable you are in it. And now theres a new way to smooth. Introducing new venus platinum. A premium metal handle boosts control. To reveal up to 100 smooth skin. Venus
meanwhile, a White Civil Rights Rally is set for this weekend marking the First Anniversary of that unite the right event and this time it will be across the street from the white house. Joining me now is investigative the author of everything you love will burn. He spent several years embedded with White Nationalist groups and was there during the violence in charlottesville. You write in your book, vegas, that charlottesville was terrible and inevitable. Why . Well, it was the clashing of two sides who had been at each others throat for a long time. For years leading up to charlottesville there had been far right rallies across the country. Antifa had been there and counterprotesters had been there so it was inevitable that these two groups would clash together and charlottesville was that time and place. The president said there was violence on both sides. Both sides were to claim. Is that your experience in covering all of this that antifa is on the same level as the White Supremacist Movement . Thats clearly ridiculous. The White Supremacists brought the violence to charlottesville when they showed up there, when they announced that they would have this march. You know, antifa is a bit of a nebulous thing as well. Theres only a small faction of antifa who meet violence with violence. Most of them are just antifascist activists. Some of them are involved in labor unions and Church Groups and community groups. But the bad people on both sides, its just a ridiculous notion. In the book you write about election day 2016 and you were watching Election Day Returns come in with a man named matthew who you talk about throughout the book. Youve known him for years. Hes a White Nationalist. And heres what you write. I watched how Donald Trumps particularly egocentric brand of nationalism which had fed on the
same fears and resentments that drove matthews movement had validated matthews efforts to bring the far right together. I saw how deep the anger ran and how willing trump had been to embrace it in his campaign. Every swing state that tumbled into Donald Trumps column was a validation of what matthew had been working for all this time. A nationalist in the white house. A wall on the mexican border. No more muslims coming in. And most importantly, white men and women in this country had a voice again. Fing finally, matthew said. Yeah. I remember back in 2011 i was at a barbecue and a rally with a nationalist socialist movements who were a big neonazi group. I was talking to their leader who was telling me how the whites in this country were ready to vote along racial lines. They were ready to hear their message, they just needed the right candidate. Now, i thought he was huffing glue. We had just elected barack obama. We were all worried about the tea party. We certainly werent thinking
about far rights and neonazis. And of course six years later it turns out he was right in a way. America was ready to vote along racial lines to elect a president. You end the book on charlottesville, thats about a year ago now. What do you see happening Going Forward . Its been a weird year. Charlottesville broke the Movement Wide apart too. It brought to the forefront f h fissures that had been there for a long time. It really took its toll on the movement. I dont know whats going to happen Going Forward. The rank and file members are still there. A lot of them have recruited online. You have new, more violent groups forming. I think the event this weekend in d. C. Is not going to be much of an event compared to last years. I dont want to make any promises, but it doesnt seem that way. But its hard to say. I still think were in the
middle of this surge of White Nationalism in america. Its not going to go anywhere for a long time. Weve got to still keep an eye on it. Vegas, thank you so much. The book is everything you love will burn. Compelling read to say the very least. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Next up, there is a rift at msnbc, and we might just split open and melt. I get unlimited 1. 5 cash back. Its so simple, i dont even have to think about it. So i think about mouthfeel. I dont think about the ink card. I think about nitrogen ice cream in supermarkets all over the world. I think about the details. Fine, i obsess over the details. Think about every part of your business except the one part that works without a thought your ink card. Introducing Chase Ink Business unlimited with unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase. Chase for business. Make more of whats yours. You always get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed . Lets say it in a really low voice. Carl . Lowest price, guaranteed. Just stick with badda book. Badda boom. Book now at choicehotels. Com if yor crohns symptoms are holding you back, and your Current Treatment hasnt worked well enough, it may be time for a change. Ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohns. Entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both Symptom Relief and remission. Infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. Entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. Pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal Brain Infection caused by a virus may be possible. This condition has not been reported with entyvio. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections or have flulike symptoms or sores. Liver problems can occur with entyvio. If your uc or crohns treatment isnt working for you,
ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio. Entyvio. Relief and remission within reach. Ive been Making Blades here at gillette for 20 years. Theres a lot of innovation that goes into making americas 1 shave. Precision machinery and highquality materials from around the world. Nobody else even comes close. Now starting at 7. 99. Gillette. The best a man can get. Morning joe went off on something of a guilty pleasure band tangent this morning and it was all Fun And Games until this happened. I guess its fish fans actually have turned on Dave Matthews and hes just uncool. Is he like the new nickelback of the jet set . The backlash has been there for a while. He just did an interview with new York Magazine address the backlash for the first time. Kasie doesnt like dave, nick doesnt like him, i gather sam doesnt like him. But they do, along with bob costa and others go to every fish show. Thats not true. I am not in that crowd. First of all, im not even going to get into that Dave Matthews band debate. More importantly, really, guys . Really . Bob costa, jake sherman, thats it . I mean i was sitting in my living room this morning under
the cool shade of my banana tree. A child of the 20th century. And you dont mention me . Im in a damn bad condition now. I had the time but you did not have the inclination. So what do i do . Do i run like an antelope out of control or sink my toes into the ground and set a different course . I thought we had it simple. I thought we had a band. My heart is breaking, guys. My heart is breaking. That will do it for me this hour. Kasie hunt picks things up right now. Kasie, e tu, bruta . Im so sorry, katy. My feelings were hurt. I should have said that you obviously do. I couldnt take credit for going to every phish concert. Jake sherman and i, we want to bring you. We want to bring you to a phish
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