Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Katy Tur 20190910 : v

MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Katy Tur September 10, 2019

Removal, but white house spokesperson hogan giddily says thats just not true. The fact is the president of the United States asked john bolton last night for his resignation. It was delivered today. John boltons policies dont line up with the president s. Any sitting president has the right to put someone in that position that can carry out his agenda. That became no longer tenable so the president made a change. And dont forget President Trump was often eager to publicly highlight how boltons hawkishness differed from his own Foreign Policy. John is a, strong views on things, but thats okay. I actually temper john, which is amazing, isnt it . Nobody thought that was, im the one that tempers him, but thats okay. I have different sides. I have john bolton and other people that are a little more dovish than him. John bolton is a hawk. If its up to him, hed take on the whole world at one time but that doesnt matter because i want both sides. That doesnt matter until it does and hes gone. Now despite the president s claims that he wants quote both said sides, that doesnt be the case. Hes been happy to let go of officials who dont agree with his ziss. It fits a larger pattern. Purging any internal dissent. Join iing me, hallie jacqujacks andrea mitchell, carol lee, Washington Post National Political reporter and msnbc political analyst, robert costa and former National Security counsel senior director and msnbc National Security analyst, ned price ch we have a packed show for you and a lot of information to bring. But im going start at the white house. And i want you to walk us through what we know so far about this firing at the top of the hour. This was a slow burn that exploded fast at the end. When you talk about the relationship between john bolton and President Trump. Here is what we know. Conflicting accounts so far publicly as to who resigned when. Whether the president asked for it or not as you laid out. John bolton insisted the president did not ask for it. White house officials including the press secretary say he did. The public insistence has been there wasnt a final straw. That was a build up of policy disagreements between bolton and the president over a series of weeks and months, but thats knot syncing with our reporting. That is that the talks that fell apart that the president canceled with the it will ban that had been set at camp david over the weekend here were really the final straw in this relationship as we have reported here at nbc news, ambassador bolton found himself on the other side of the issue. For example, mike pompeo, he often clashed with pompeo as the secretary of state himself acknowledged a couple of minutes ago in briefing room. He undersold it a little bit saying yeah, we disagreed to be b sure. To be b very sure, the two had repeated fights over a number of topics including policy on iran moving forward as secretary mnuchin also pointed out. So clearly, the afghanistan issue was something that as one source put to me sort of broke out the bottom of the bag there. Ambassador bolton is somebody who had a different Foreign Policy view than President Trump from the very beginning. Donald trump knew that when he brought him in. He understood, the president did, where bolton was coming from, but repeatedly would publicly say he liked having the differing opinions, the different mix of ideologies around him. Ultimately though, the Foreign Policy that secretary of state pompeo has been advocating for and that the president has been publicly talking about seems to have won out in this instance. We know the acting National Security adviser will be charlie cupperman. We have some ideas on leads that wee not yet ready to share, but thats next piece of this puzzle on another wild lead. Im sure youll share it. But you referenced what pompeo was talking about with regards to his relationship with bolton. I want to listen to his answer then andrea, i want you to weigh in on that. There were many times bolton and i disagreed, but thats true for lots of people with whom i interact. My mission set is to make sure as i run the department of state is to deliver americas diplomacy. Everyones talked about this for a long time. There were places where we had different views about how to proceed. Andrea, what were hearing is it seems as if bolton criticiz d ed pompeo for furthering his own political ambitions and pompeo was criticized bolton for saying he was corrosive and there was too much infighting and he was too inflexible. What do you make of the relationship between these two men . Its been fracktious. Weve seen disagreements, proposal to have a camp david meeting. Pompeo has remained within the orbit of the president of the United States. He has clearly figured out thousand work within that arena. As no one else on the National Security team has. Mattis resigned. Tillerson was fired. Mcmaster was forced out. John kelly was forced out. Just look at the people, a lot of them retired general in front of their names who have not been able to survive in this arena. That said, i think one of the precipitators here was not just mike pompeo and disagreements between bolton and the president on iran, north korea, afghanistan, but mike pence. It was over the weekend when those leaks came out where bolton was being reported to have disagreed over camp david proposal. And the leaks included the fact that a the Vice President agreed with him and disagreed with the president. I dont think you ever get between mike pence and this president publicly. We know the Vice President does not express his views in meetings. He speaks to the president privately if he had any disagreement, suggestion perhaps that it should not have been at the white house. That it should have been remo removed. Perhaps he did have rez vases about the optics on the week leading into 9 11. That said, seems to me that to have disagreed with both pompeo and to have cited pence to sort of cover your disagreement with the president was a big mistake on boltons part. Hes been the supreme inside e, the wielder of knives going back as far as ive covered him in previous administrations, i think he went too far to take on not only the secretary of state, but to put mike pence in an awkward position with the president. Mike pence saying in North Carolina night that that was not true. Yeah but weve talked over the last couple of hours, this story breaking during your hour about the differences and disagreements between the president that hallie was laying out. Obviously and bolton as well. But there was a lot of commonalities between these two mep. They both did not like bad deals. The jcpoa. Which the u. S. Pulled out of. Bolton was not a big fan of the jcpoa either. He wanted to rip up a lot of deals made under the obama administration. He also called himself an americanist which can sort of be in line with trumps America First ideology. Well, bolton is a hawk and the president described him as a hawk. What i dont think he fully understood is how much the president wants to end these military engagements. This is something he campaigned on in afghanistan. Certainly his decision to withdraw from syria, which precipitated mattis resignation. So i dont think bolton was in sync with the president on the whole notion of being a pragmatist, of wanting to rely on personal diplomacy with kim jongun. He was more hawkish and realistic about that than the president of the United States. And that pompeo manageded to sort of square the circle, if you will, and figure out a way to stay within the president s objectives. Carol, take us through the ticktock of what youre learning. One of the things we know is that the president was really upset to andreas point about the Vice President and bolton and the tension that is may have been there. The president was upset when mike pence came out and he denied that he did not support the president on his aftghan talks with the taliban and notably, he was upset that john bolton didnt do that. That is consistent with shotgun we weve seen is that bolton came into this with clear policy positions. Hes well on the record with all of them. Whether its on iran or north korea and he never benlt on any o f that. Even as the president moved in different directions. Before afghanistan, it was iran. I was at the g7 at the president s press conference and he stood there and talk ed abou wanting to have sitdown with the president of iran without any preconditions. And that is something that given all that john bolton has said b about iran, what his positions are, was hard to imagine how him being National Security addvise would be sustainable then when you add on to this the afghanistan piece, this is what happened there is about two things, its about the policies, but also about the internal dynamics. This is as much b about internal dynamics and john bolton clashing with everybody from the secretary of state to other officials inside the white house and across the administration and tensions with the president. And so you know you have these policy differences thep the way that he, the president believed john bolton went about trying to whether its make them public and try to derail his policies, but in the end, it didnt feel president that john bolton was going to back his policies despite his own views. Which is what a National Security adviser is supposed to do. Robert costa, i know youve been communicating with bolton. Talk to us about what you can tell us. Its quite a moment. You have the outed National Security adviser talking to reporters on the record, saying he chose to resign. He raised the issue on monday with the president. Submitted his letter on tuesday. This is different from an exit from someone like john kelly or other officials. You have an idea law in john bolton, someone who has real policy disagreements with President Trump whos also willing to speak out. He doesnt speak about the president s psychological fitness or anything like that, but thinks about his policy fitness and whether hes taking the country in the right direction. A new kind of challenge for this white house as you have a assertive former National Security adviser, very savvy in the ways of washington talking about his own deinside this white house and framing it in his own way. Ned, a look ahead. Boltons replacement will be President Trumps fifth National Security adviser. How does this constant turnover, ned, impact National Security . Well, i think you have to look at track record to see what the president may have in store. Hes had three National Security advisers so far. The first today was of course in court waiting for federal sentencing for lying to federal investigators. The second was in ingloriously pushed out and bolton of course was either depending on whom you believe, either fired or resigned. I think the question now is who would actually take on that j . Who would take on the b job of National Security adviser for a president who is notoriously muhr cure yal and who tends to make decisions based on the last advice he hears. Those are not traits you want if youre the National Security adviser. It will boil down to who will stroke the president s ego most effectively and most frequently. President trump doesnt care much for policy ideas. For intellect. He cares about how people sound. How people look. And i think most importantly, how they praise him both in public and in private. And that is something that we are learning that john bolton certainly didnt seem to do frequently enough. All right, hallie, andrea, ned, appreciate it. Up next, democrats subpoena the pentagon over reports that scotland resort is benefitting from air force business. Plus, a test of trumps political power. Why the results of North Carolina special election could tell us a lot about 2020. But first, in plain sight. A reported russian spy living in washington, d. C. And why our government is protecting his life. Well be right back. E for a restless nights sleep. Theres a better choice. Aleve pm. The only one to combine a safe sleep aid and the 12hour painrelieving strength of aleve that dares to last into the morning. So you feel refreshed. Aleve pm. Theres a better choice. A russian official who rose through the kremlins ranks is now u liliving in the washingto area under protection. The New York Times writing this man became one of the cias most important and highly protect eed assets as it became clear russia was trying to influence the election. Nbc news has not confirmed his role and is holding his name at the question of u. S. Officials. The presence in washington was revealed after it was reported the cia extract ed the spy from russia in 2017 fearing for his safety. Joining me now, ken and michael, also an msnbc International Affairs analyst. Ken, ill start with you on this one. Talk to us about the circumstances surrounding this informants extraction. Thats a point of some controversy because the original reporting said he was extracted because officials were worried about Donald Trumps demeanor regarding classified information and is revealing secrets to the russian ambassador. From everything we are being told, that was not a factor in this. It was simply the case that this person had been spying for the cia for some time. His position had grown precarious. There was reason to think he might be in danger. There was speculation in the news media about the source discussing putins motivation in the 2016 Election Interference Campaign and therefore the cia felt it was time to pull him out. Theres some reporting that he was offered a chance to leave in 2016 before donald trump took office. He declined then in the middle of 2017, he was extracted. Are there concerns, ken, for his safety in the washington, d. C. Area as of now . Well, there are concerns because he is now the subject of news media reporting. Before that, he b had been living in his true name and the russians certainly knew where he was. They knew he disappeared, no longer in russia. You believe public records show where he was living, but it was believed he was not in grave danger because the russians do not have a track record of doing what they did in england, which is seeking to assassinate a cia informant under american protection. They just havent done that here, but american officials are worried that now were all reporting on him unfortunately, it has the, it could poke the bear, as they put it. Provoke putin and the russians to take and it puts him in greater danger and my understanding is that hes being moved. Lets talk about what cnn reported, which was that he was extracted soon after the president met with russian officials and over concerns that the president has mishandled intelligence. Officials told the New York Times it was media skrut alone, the reason for the extraction. Nbc has not confirmed either one of those. Give i giving the timing of this extraction in 2017, how much danger was that informant in . Obviously, i dont know. And i shouldnt and if i did know, im not going to tell you. Thats the point. I am outraged that were talk ing about this. Not because of kens excellent reporting and what journalists do, but who in the u. S. Government made the decision to unilaterally declassify this secret information . It is not in americas National Security interest to do this kind of leakage and so maybe President Trump mishandled classified information. Thats perfectly plausible but some concrete individual did this and its got to stop. Well talk me about how difficult it was for the cia ambassador, if you can, to have someone like this in moscow . To recruit someone who could get into the highest levels and be in meetings with putin . Well lets just say historically, we know over the record of the cold war, it is extremely hard to have an asset close to the head of state. And if the reporting on this is true and he did work for him, that means that he was very close to the president. I used to work with him. Hes equivalent of john bolton. The closest National Security adviser who works in the kremlin. So if the reporting is true, this would have been a very important asset for the intelligence community. So what do you make then of the fact that russia is is saying that he was never in meetings with president putin . Again, i cant confirm or deny that. I dont know that. I do know hes been with president putin and Prime Minister putin for a long, long time. So if this individual was working for mr. Skhkov, maybe he wasnt in the room, but would have been privy to top secret adopts that the president himself would be using. It is a fascinating story to say the least. Appreciate you bringing this to us. Thank you so much. Ken, michael, appreciate you as well. The swamp appears to be b b growing. Democrats threaten subpoenas amid reports that Donald Trumps resort in scotland is benefitting from air force business and his commerce secretary is firing back at allegations that he threat ped to fire folks at noaa over the president s unfounded alabama claim. Thats next. Thousands of women with Metastatic Breast Cancer are living in the moment and taking ibrance. 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