The court does say that in the particular kicircumstances of h phillip was treated, his religious views didnt get the respect of the commission that initially ruled against him. He cites Commission Members that said appeared to be dismissive or hostile to Jack Phillips religious views. The 13r50eSupreme Court this w marred as soon as the Commission Said those things. All the Court Decision today says is, because of the way Jack Phillips was treated below, he wins. But the decision also says, were not expressing a view about the larger issue that made this case so interesting. Which is, can other bakers, florists, people who print wedding invitations, who provide services, people who sing at weddings, play the organ, do the deejay services, all those businesses, can they refuse to serve samesex couples . Has written all the important gay rights rulings here from the Supreme Court, including the 2015 ruling on samesex marriage. With that in mind, he basically is saying, we have to keep the rights of gay people in mind, but we also have t gious interests seriously, too. If there is a larger ruling here, it is basically or a larger victory here, it is for vocates of religious freedom, who get a little bit of a boost, in telling the lower courts, you have to take them seriously. All right. Pete, thanks very much. Pete williams for us at the Supreme Court on this particular ruling. Lets bring tom in. Tom, what is your take on the ruling . Pete is right. The court has dodged the broader question. I think that gay Rights Groups probably take a lot of solace. Seven members of the Supreme Court, including alito, have said you must respect the rights of samesex couples, endorsing the Supreme Courts earlier decision. But the real, Real Question that
was out there is, how much of this is really free speech, this writing on a cake, taking a photograph. Supreme court says nothing abo that. I think the justices are sending a signal to the country. That is, be reasonable. Respect the rights of gay couples, but also respect peoples religious views. Try to accommodate each other. Thats what the justices themselves did. They came together in a sense, and are trying to get the country to do that. Unfortunately, the fights are unevidentabu inevitable because the views are so strong on both sides. Will this ruling be misinterpreted . At first blush it looks like a setback. They say, the gay couple lost, a kneejerk reaction would not be, the Supreme Court came together and said, be reasonable. The kneejerk reaction, i think, would be the opposite. Youre right. Thats why Justice Kennedys opinion, joined by some of the conservatives, leads with the principle of respecting samesex couples. They want to reinforce that they believe in that. They arent taking a step back from that. They want to make clear that they saw hostility to religion here, and that is another important principle. Thats what brought the Supreme Court together. You have the liberal justices willing to endorse that principle, do not go against th that, religious views. Interesting when you have a resolution like that, that is to some people, or maybe both sides, no particular resolution, one weve been waiting for for a long time. Tom, thank you very much. Thank you. Absorbing this is about really reading it and being thoughtful about it. Right. Thats whats important. Again, our first reaction to this, when i look at twitter setback for gay rights. The first thing that tom said was, lgbt rights advocates should take solace with this. It is interesting. More interesting news. Former president bill clinton speaking to nbc news abo the Monica Cllewinsky scandal. What he said when asked if hed handle anything differently in the age of me too. Its a wow. We are keeping an eye on markets. Up 200 this morning. Remember, very strong jobs report on friday. Clearly, we are still at full employment. Things are even better. President trump this morning said it is a great time to look for a job. He hasnt mentioned wages. Wage growth did go up, but it still continues to lag. The other thing causing market volatility, of course, is trade and the potential trade war on the horizon. Stay with us. Youre watching velshi ruhle. , but maybe not for people with rheumatoid arthritis. Because there are options. Like an unjection™. Xeljanz xr. A oncedaily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. Xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. Xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infens, lymphoma and other cancers have happened. Dont start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. Tears in the stomach or intestines, low Blood Cell Counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. Your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. Tell you doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Needles. Fine for some things. But for you, one pill a day may provide symptom relief. Ask your doctor about xeljanz xr. An unjection™. Welcome to holiday inn thank you wait, i have something for you every stay is a special stay at holiday inn. Save up to 15 when you book early
at hollidayinn. Com and with twice the detail of other tests. It can show dad where hes from. And strengthen the bonds you share. Give dad ancestrydna for just 69 our lowest Fathers Day Price ever. Were getting out of here. Youre welcome. Run holy this is gonna be awesome. Rated pg13. Welcome back to velshi ruhle. Former president bill clinton is defending his handling of the Monica Lewinsky scandal. In an interview with nbcs craig melvin, president clinton said he wouldnt have done anything differently if he were president today, even in the age of me too. Few days ago, in response to critics who suggested that you should have resigned in the wake of the lewinsky scandal, you said that you should not have. If you were president now, in 2018, with everything thats going on with the me too
movement, how would you have approached the accusations differently . Well, i dont think itd be an issue because people would be using the facts instead of the imagined facts. If the facts are the same today, i wouldnt. A lot of the facts have been conveniently omitted to make the story work. I think partly because theyre ated that they got all these serious allegations against the current occupant of the oval office, and his voters dont seem to care. I think i did the right thing. I defended the constitution. You think this president has been given a pass with regards to the women that have accused him of Sexual Misconduct . I think no, but it hasnt gotten anything like the coverage youd expect. Looking back on what happened through the lens of me too now, do you think differently or feel more responsibility . No. I felt terrible then. I came to grips with it. Did you ever apologize to her . Yes. And nobody believes that i got
out of that for free. I left the white house 16 million in debt. But you, typically, have ignored gaping factsn this, and i bet you dont even know them. This was litigated 20 years ago. 2 3 of the American People sided with me. They were not insensitive of that. I had a Sexual Harassment policy when i was governor in the 80s. I had two women chiefs of staff when i was governor. Women were overrepresented in the Attorney Generals Office in the 70s. For their percentage in the bar. I have nothing but Women Leaders in my office since i left. You are giving one side and omitting fact facts. Mr. President s, i, im not tg to respect a side. You asked if i agree. I asked if you apologized. I apologized to everybody in the world. You didnt apologize to her. I have not talked to her. Do you feel you owe her an apology . I do not i have never talked to her. I did say publicly, on more than one occasion, that i was sorry. Thats very different. The apology was public. You dont think a private apology is owed . You think President Kennedy should have resigned . Do you believe president johnson should have resign sesigresigne . Someone should ask you the questions because of the way you formulate the questions. I dealt with it 20 years ago plus. The American People, 2 3 of them, stayed with me. Ive tried to do a good job since then with my life and with my work. Thats all i have to say to you. Oh, my goodness. Congressman from new york, who worked for president clinton in
the white house, i interviewed earlier and said, that was clearly not his best interest. One thing, when he said he apologized, but not to her, her being Monica Lewinsky, i believe thats the person craig melvin was asking about. To say that he left the white house 16 million in debt, i understand, clearly, he worked out of that hole and went on to be an extraordinarily successful and continued to be powerful. Ms. Lewinsky has obviously had to walk a very different path. Right. Lets continue this conversation with nbc National Political corrpondent steve kornacki, who is working on a book about president clinton, and beth, who was there when this was being covered. He said he successfullye politically, but thats not the point of me too. That you have rehabilitated and
moved on and people believed you. It is that something happened for which there needs to be personal responsibility. I was a bit surprised by president clintons answer, given how articulate he is and how long hes had to think about this. Lets go back to 1998 when this was being litigated on the news and in court and by the Special Counsel. Liberal feminists were with bill clinton then. They were like the sex police going after him. They were calling it a consensual relationship. Ms. Lewinsky was 23 years old, could make her own decisions, about whether or not she wanted to get involved in this relationship. Basically, it was the republican congress, led by newt gingrich, who was on this crusade with starr to get rid of this guy. Thats how the battlelines formed. 20 years later, the look at how consent works, the power dynamic of an employer over an employee is very, very different now. As you said, ali, he has had 20 years to think about how the dynamics of this have changed. To think about it with thoughtfulness, with retrospection. I think what we saw there was the answer of a narcissist. Whats so interesting, steve, you are our resident 90s expert. We talk all the time about how me too is taking a 2018 lens to problems from the 80s, the 90s, and times before that. But it is what were doing in 2018. No one is saying, lets relitigate things, but this was a clear opportunity for the president to take some level of ownership and move the ball forward. Instead, it seems like he is taking a page from Donald Trumps book, and theyre on the same narrative. Fascinating thing to me is you saw two things on display there in 2018 that were as vividly on display in 1998. Number one, bill clinton, when certain subjects are raised, is a thinskinned public figure. He can be articulate at a convention, in front of a crowd, but especially members of the news media, they can get under his skin easily. We saw it there. The second thing is that his script has notnged on this subject. Right. What youre getting in the moment is his reflex. Youre getting his instinct. The subject is raised, and barely a mention of contrition, barely a mention of what he might have done wrong, and it was, what was done to him. Reflexes have been forced to change in 2018. Thats the thing. In 1998, he admitted to a grand jury to the affair of Monica Lewinsky. Went on prime Time Television and gave a fiveminute speech that was just like watching him right now. I have a private life. I am a victim. The apology he said he gave an apology to Monica Lewinsky in public. It came three weeks later. The reason for the apology was, first, the report hit congress with allegations of impeachable offenses. He was facing impeachment. There were democrats, led by joe lieberman, a senator from connectiid, mr. President , what you told the country when you admitted the affair was not what we need. We need contrition from you. We need apology. He went to the National Prayer breakfast, september 11th, 1998, that is when he apologized to Monica Lewinsky. It is an apology his critics said was given under duress. To listen to him 20 years later, you wonder if there was something to that. In a world in which, in bill clintons mind, this has been litigated, and its done. He said, 2 3 of americans backed me up on it. In a world that changed the last year, do these answers need to change . Does bill clinton or anyone else who saw Something Like this litigated ten years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, do they need to have a more developed, more 2018 answer . If they dont, can he be an effective surrogate for todays Democratic Party . He can. Of course, he should rethink it, but he feels he is in the right and isnt going to. To your point about being an effective surrogate, he was a terrible surrogate in 2016 for his wife. She has paid for this far more than he ever did. Remember, at the debate, one of the national debas, after the access Hollywood Tape came out, steve bannon invited women who had made accusations against bill clinton to the debate. Hillary clinton was not in the position to condemn that or say anything about it because she lives with the history. She paid the political price for what happened in this century that bill clinton still is refusing to pay. Remarkable. Thanks to both of you. It could have been a moment for him. I agree. Not saying it is an easy one. He is one of those americans who is equipped to have that kindarticulate. He has got public support, considering everything that happened. Could have been a moment. It was interesting. Steve, thanks very much. Look forward to your book. Beth, thank you to you, as well. You can see more of craig melvins stunning interview with president clinton at 1 00 p. M. Eastern here on msnbc. President trump says hes got the aolute right to pardon himself in the mueller investigation, but what does the constitution say about that . What does the Department Of Justice say . First, rescue operations are underway in guatemala after a volcano exploded near Guatemala City yesterday, killing at least 25 people, Injuring Hundreds nearby. The volcano spewed thick, black smoke, ash, and lava on to homes and fields across three towns. It surprised communities that had not been ordered to evacuate. Hundreds of Rescue Workers are searching for survivors and bodies. Officials say entire villages are currently unaccounted for. Teams are struggling to Reach Rural Areas cut off by the eruption. More than 3,000 people have been evacuated from the area. Were going to continue to cover
this and more. Youre watching velshi ruhle. Why . Because ali is back. Good news there. George woke up in pain. But he has plans today. So he took aleve this morning. Hey, dad. If hed taken tylenol, hed be stopping for more pills right now. Only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. Tylenol cant do that. Aleve. All day strong. All day long. Get 5 dollars off aleve back muscle pain in this sundays paper only. Welcome back to velshi ruhle. I want to start by making a point. Possibly not the best point to make on my first day back after being here for a while, but stephanie, if i wanted to, i could take your phone, toss it on the floor, and crack the screen. This is stephanies phone. Im not going to do that because id get kicked aufd t eed off t maybe worse things. I could do it, but i wont, because i dont want to. Now, ive told you that im not going to do this. Then id get in trouble. But youre able to. If you so wanted to, you could do it. Right. The net result is, youre probably going to want to take your phone back from me. Youre right, i am. I dont want you to do that. That nonsense is the same i could do it, but i wont that the president and his lawyers keep using about pardons. Here the rudy giulia here is Rudy Giuliani on sunday. He has no intention of Pardonipardon Ing himself, but not saying he couldnt. It would be answered by, thats what the constitution says. If you want to change it, change it. The president of the United States, pardoning himself would just be unthinkable. And it would lead to probably an immediate impeachment. Okay. Dont worry. Wont happen. Could happen. Has a right for it to happen, but it wont happen. If that was the case, why did they let it go to begin with . It was followed up this morning by the president declaring, quote, i have the absolute right to pardon myself, but why would i do that when ive done nothing wrong . He calls out the Special Counsel, saying, muellers appointment is totally unconstitutional. Sentiments the president s lawyers expressed in a lettero the Special Counsels office earlier this year. Is that me shouting out, i didnt rob a bank. Crazy. Why would you say it if you didnt do it . Ive missed walking over here to explain the little things. I missed yo