Arrival. With hertz gold plus rewards, you skip the counters, the lines, and the paperwork. Zap. Its our fastest and easiest way to get you into your car. Its just another way youll be traveling at the speed of hertz. Diplomacy with venezuela, north korea, syria, and iran . It makes dinner with republicans downright enjoy. Its wednesday, march 6th, and this is now. Joining me today on this power wednesday, new york city deputy mayor howard wolfson, nbc news Foreign CorrespondentAyman Mohyeldin fresh from cairo, msnbc contributor and former White House Press secretary fresh from washington, robert gibbs, and msnbc political analyst and former rnc chairman, the notorious Michael Steele. Earlier today, venezuelans flooded the streets to mourn the death of hugo chavez. The accusations over his death have already begun. Namely, blame someone else, preferably, the United States. Yesterday Vice PresidentNicolas Maduro took to the air waves to accuse two american diplomats to destabilize. Also the cancer that killed chavez was an assassination plot by his enemies. Absurd, we definitely, definitively, reject it. The accusations would have made chavez proud. He was expert at rallying support for his political objectives. Here is chavez speaking before the u. N. In 2006 following an address made by george w. Bush. Translator yesterday, the devil came here. Right here. Right here. And it smells of sulfur still today. The president of the United States, the gentleman to whom i refer to as the devil, came here. Chavez literally demonized america, moammar gadhafi, mahmoud ahmadinejad. Despite the news today is one man down, their work continues. Yesterday, north korea threatened to break its 50year truce with south korea after the u. S. And china proposed strict new sanctions on pyongyang. Secretary kerry responded to the threat. Rather to threaten to abrogate and threaten to move in another direction, the world would be better served if he would direct his people and make a decision himself to engage in a legitimate dialogue and legitimate negotiations. But if the past is any precedent, sane dialogue and earnest negotiations are tough things to come by when youre a dictator in troubled waters. Robert, we have seen dramatic changes around the world in terms of dictators and dictatorships falling. But i guess my question is, as someone whos worked inside the white house, which is worse, the dictator or the void that is left after he or, i guess, she falls . I think its a bit of both. I mean, look, incidentally, im riding up on the train yesterday and sitting next to a reporter who says this statement came out about them kicking these two diplomats out and blaming the United States for causing cancer. I literally said, it must mean they will soon announce his death. Five minutes later, she says, oh, my god, hugo chavez died. Youve got this wellworn, tired, tattered dictator in south america playbook that really keeps the entire region, or i should say most of the region, back from enjoying the growth in the global economy, except for places like columbia or brazil, fast moving, fast growing. The rest of these countries are held back by dictators that seem more stuck in the 50s or 60s than they do ready to bring their populations into the 21st century. Incidentally, if the u. S. Could give people cancer, back when they were trying out exploding cigars on fidel castro in the 60s, one would think theyd work that too. As our resident foreign scholar here, the question is how much can america get rid of ties, given who is sort of second in command here, but in terms of making better or more effective outreach to the venezuelan people, and i would say this broadly speaking, america is in a tough place now, the world is in flux, theres an antiamerican sentiment, especially in the middle east, whats the most important thing for america to do now given the changing sands in Foreign Policy . Thats a tough question. Im not sure if im in a position to advise on that part of the world, but in a place like venezuela, when you have a person who dominates the political landscape, its hard for the u. S. To play with other players. Venezuela is a divided country right now, there is an opposition, but theyve been p suppressed and oppressed. On the one hand, it reaches out to the opposition, sometimes called the kiss of death. As soon as the opposition reaches out and meets with the u. S. , it becomes exactly what the main party wants, which is to project the opposition as somehow collaborating with the u. S. , chavez and his supporters. Its a very difficult position. However, its a principle issue, which is to promote the values the u. S. Wants to promote over the individuals, over the parties, that may emerge on the political scene. They are going to have elections in 30 days. Chavez won by a significant margin. Through some arm twisting. Not free and fair elections, but there is an opposition there the u. S. Can certainly foster, if not at least encourage and support from a distance. Weve seen the president has approached, or embraced, something that is, i think, euphemistically turned i wont say leading from behind, but not going it alone, as it were. Whats happening on north korea is remarkable, given the fact the chinese is signing off on these sanctions, howard. We have a lot of ties economically on how much debt they own, but the question of human rights and global stability is often a place where we are at odds with the chinese. I think what were seeing today is fairly remarkable, given chinas, you know, previous intransigence on the issue. What do you make of that in terms of the broader sort of american interests with china moving forward . Well, china clearly has a threshold with regard to north korea and that threshold is being reached. Even they probably understand this is not a good situation. The situation is destabilizing and something needs to be done about it. China is tricky. The administration has tried to walk a fine line between understanding they are both a strategic competitor but also an economic, not quite an ally, but a country with an enormous amount of business with the United States, and frankly, the president gets a lot of credit for having understood that, not alienated china to the extent we have worsened relationships with them, but also tried to push them with regard to trade and human rights and other issues. The biggest question, of course, in many respects is this issue of Cyber Attacks or Cyber Security and what the administration does to push them in the right direction there remains to be seen. Robert, feels like i wont say two steps forward, two steps back, but moving these countries are so their heels have been dug in for so long. Theres so much isolation and other bad actors that have been in ka hoots. Its hard to break apart this jigsaw puzzle. The New York Times didnt mince words this morning. They write, the Editorial Board writes, there is no reason to believe the sanctions on north korea will persuade pyongyang. The International Community has failed to devise a coherent policy that might reverse or slow the norths efforts to become a fullfledged nuclear state. President obamas efforts have been no more successful than those of president george w. Bush. What do you make of that . Look, there are certain things you can do. Theres certain pressure you can put on people, but look, theres the great maps of the Korean Peninsula at night, right . And lit up is the wonderful city of seoul, korea, and the south. And then the north is completely dark, because theyve stepped so far away from anything relating to a Civil Society that theres a limit, quite frankly, to what you can do. Howard is exactly right. When the chinese understand instability most of all in their own neighborhood and when they take that step, it shows you, and i think the chinese can have a big impact if anybody can, on the actions of north korea, because they are the big actor over there, and if they say, look, now theres instability that threatens us, that threatens the region as a whole and can spread with the proliferation of longrange missiles all over the world, that gets their attention and, look, that is thats what is really important about maintaining that Strategic Dialogue with china, even as youre pushing them on other issues. North korea is not good for business. China is in the business of business. Doing business with north korea and doing business with bad actors, whether they are in africa, southeast asia, its a tenuous position given the fact these are very unstable regimes. In north korea, you have refugees flooding across the border. China does enormous business in africa. They are willing, clearly, to do business with some pretty bad actors. North korea, as robert just said, you know, at night there are no lights there. Yes, are they a Major Trading partner of north korea . Absolutely. Is it a place they see a lot of opportunity for business . Not really. Many of the other places they are doing business around the world are much more beneficial to them. Its a stability question, i think, more than anything. Chinese do not want to be destabilized. Michael steele, in terms of the political optics on all this, we have talked about Foreign Policy and its not exactly an area of bipartisan agreement, but theres not a huge amount of bipartisan strife, if you will, over Foreign Policy. I think, a, given the fact the region, there is no obama doctrine, and i think to some degree, theres not a lot of complaint about that, because each actor has to be treated differently. The republicans in the last campaign did not sort of articulate any sort of architecture for Foreign Policy that was different from that of the president. Which was not measurably different from his predecessor. In the new york city times Editorial Board. Status quo, all right. I think thats part of this narrative politically that i think gives people, not comfort, but they are not as high level of anxiety, because they are with all the regimes and political players that weve talked about from china to washington, from beijing to washington. There is this consensus of how we move forward together, which is why on this nuclear piece you see china, washington, kind of holding hands, tepidly, but holding hands. Pinky link is more effective. That works, too. That works, too. But to howards point, the broader reality is this Nuclear Umbrella which they do not want to see unfold over north korea. So thats a common interest. The economic interest is another common interest. So, these are the threads that kind of bind washington and beijing together as they deal with all these other actors, whether its in the middle east or else where. I will say, though, some part of me is not, you know, trying to gun for more ranker in washington, but i do feel like Foreign Policy has taken a back seat to domestic policy, and thats not to say we dont have bigticket items on the table. When you have no job, youre not worried about another country. Youre worried about your own. We write the script for one of these segments and you cant talk about all the countries because the list is too long. The president has a mountain of Foreign Policy on his desk right now, and his ability look, everybodys ability to focus on this in a kind of measurable way, which is to say to maybe stop the bloodshed in syria, which has taken tens of thousands of lives is not a priority. I thought everything was going to be right for the world when we elected obama. At least thats what i was told. The president s Foreign Policy doesnt have to go through congress. Quite frankly, if it did, we would have Foreign Policy by sequestration and if you thought the problems mounted on the president or any president s desk, try having it all go through congress, what a mess. Were going to have much more on the mess at hand. Pretty spectacular mess. How many qualifiers can you fit into one statement . Uhoh. Ask attorney general eric holder. Were going to discuss the obama administrations ifs, ands, and buts on american drone strikes next on now. License and registration please. Whats this . Uhh, its my Geico Insurance id card, sir. Its digital, uh, pretty cool right . Maybe. You know why i pulled you over today . Because im a pig driving a convertible . Tail lights out. Fix it. Digital insurance id cards. Just a click away with the geico mobile app. Living with moderate to semeans living with pain. Is it could also mean living with joint damage. Humira, adalimumab, can help treat more than just the pain. For many adults, humira is clinically proven to help relieve pain and stop further joint damage. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer, have happened. Blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening Heart Failure have occurred. Before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb. Ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. Tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. You should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. Ask your rheumatologist about humira, to help relieve your pain and stop further joint damage. How does the president s mind work, though . The president that seems so honorable, seems so concerned with our rights, seems so concerned with the right not to have your phone be tapped now says hes not concerned with whether you can be killed without a trial . The leap of logic is so fantastic as to boggle the mind. Where is the barack obama of 2007 . Has the presidency so transformed him that he has forgotten his moorings, forgotten what he stood for . That was senator rand paul speaking on the senate floor moments ago. Hes using the issue of drones to filibuster the confirmation of john brennan for cia director. Eric holder testified before the Senate Judiciary committee this morning. The government has no intention to carry out any drone strikes in the United States. Its hard for me to imagine a situation which that would occur here in the United States where the possibility of capture is obviously enhanced, and, as a result, the use of drones is, from my perspective, something that is entirely, entirely hypothetical. Holder had been asked about a letter he sent to rand paul yesterday. Holder wrote, it is possible, i suppose, to imagine an extraordinary circumstance in which it would be necessary and appropriate under the constitution for the president to authorize the military to use lethal force within the territory of the United States. Or, in short, yeah, probably, maybe. Holder also told the committee that while he didnt want to preempt the announcement, the president will speak very soon on drones. There is going to be a greater effort of transparency, a number of steps are going to be taken. I expect youll hear the president speaking about this. Robert, i imagine its easier to answer these questions now that you are not standing in the brady briefing room. Yes. I am not one that usually sees i wont say eyetoeye, but understands a rand paul point and sees legitimacy in it, but i think he actually there is some truth here. And given the very vague wording of that eric holder statement, which is it is possible, i suppose, to imagine an extraordinary circumstance, to me that says the white house has not really figured this whole drone policy thing out. Or a lawyer wrote that sentence. Look, i got into a little k kerfuffle by saying i was not to acknowledge the existence of the Drone Program, and i did that largely because its a highly classified, aspects are highly classified. I would never deny its existence, we just wouldnt expand on it. And you could see at that point as a reporter is sitting in the front row reading the article in the paper saying we just killed this guy using a drone, can you talk about, and you say i dont have anything for you on that. Theres an inherent tension in that thats unsustainable. My guess is on this, and we were joking about this in the green room, im not a lawyer. You play one on television. Dont take my legal advice, but my guess is this, they were staking out some legal principle that would have to do with a compelling threat and how they would react to it, but i will say this, i think what rand pauls biggest mistake in this is filibustering the person that can bring the greatest amount of transparency to the Drone Program and thats actually john brennan. The reason he gave that speech april of last year, which acknowledged the Drone Program and talked about it is because john understood there was an inherent transparency tension that lessened our confidence in government. And what i think what john wants to do at the cia is take military activities and put them rightly into the pentagon. The cia will continue to have a very robust intelligence gathering role, but the military activity of a drone strike will be housed in the pentagon and, thus, providing the ability under law to be more transparent. Go ahead, michael. That still doesnt answer the underlying question. Thats all nice Bureaucratic Organization of the charts, but it still doesnt answer the underlying i call it the u. S. Law. That too, but youre not a lawyer. Again, the point is how does the government respond to the question of killing United States cities abroad through drones, how does the Drone Program i