New york. We begin a new week following the july 4th break. And as millions of americans dial back into the news the headline is this. Things just got worse for the Trump Presidency on day 172 of an administration already consumed by russia. The president s son met with a russian who claims to have dirt on Hillary Clinton. The president s son changed his story about the meeting. And now the president s son has hired a lawyer. He is going to get invited to talk to the Senate Intelligence committee. And news tonight that he was told the russian government was actively working to help his fathers campaign. More on that later. And his name now joins the list of people around the president who met with russians and later either forgot about it or failed to report it. The questions about russian collusion have been asked repeatedly. And the answer has always been the same. Are there any ties between mr. Trump you or your campaign and putin and his regime . No, there are not. Its absurd. You know there is no base to it. Did anyone involved in the Trump Campaign have any contact with russians trying to meddle with the election . Absolutely not. Im asking you a direct question. Was there any contact in any way between trump or his associates and the kremlin or cutouts they had. I joined this campaign in the summer and i can tell you that all the contact by the Trump Campaign and associates was with the American People. Were there any contacts sir im just trying to get an answer. Of course not. Why would be there any contacts. It did not i did not have communications with the russians. And im unable to comment on it. Did any adviser or anybody in the Trump Campaign have any contact with the russians trying to meddle in the election . Oh of course not. Can you say who you are aware that anyone who advised your campaign had contacts with russia during the course of the election . Well i told you general flynn obviously was dealing. So thats one person he was dealing as he should have been doo during the election. Nobody that i know of. This conversations never happened. I hear people saying it like its a fact on television. That is just not only inact and false but its anteriorally. It does undermine our democracy. The meeting in question was between donald trump jr. And a kremlin connected russian lawyer, according to the New York Times, which broke the story. Also in the room Jared Kushner and trumps then Campaign HeadPaul Manafort took place at trump tower june 9 over a month after trump became the partys presumptive nominee. But both donald trump jr. And his fathers legal team stay the president new nothing about the meeting. And new tonight the New York Times expanding, again, on this story. The headline quote, trump jr. Was told in email of russian effort to aid campaign. Quoting now from the times, before arranging a meeting with a krem behindconnected russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton donald trump jr. Was informed in an email that the material was part a russian government effort to aid his fathers candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email. This email is reportedly from the same man described as an acquaintance by donald trump jr. Who sets up the meeting. This times report goes on and well quote. The email indicates that the russian government was the source of the potentially damaging information. It does not ee a little bit on a the wider effort by moscow to help the Trump Campaign. There is no evidence to suggest that the promise the damaging information was related to russian government computer hacking that led to the release of thousands of Democratic National committee emails. At this point probably a good idea to bring in our starting panel as we start a new week. Starting with the panelist katie tur who covered the donald Trump Campaign effort from the beginning. Be Michael Schmidt back from the New York Times and msnbc national contributor. You heard him questioning Sarah Huckabee sanders. Phillip rucker Washington Post bureau chief and newly minted msnbc political analyst from his seat at the white house. Welcome to you all. Michael ill begin with you. Just about every night there is a a print Journalism Development that causes us to ask a nice guest like you, usually a print journalist, how does this change everything . And ill ask that about the reporting of your colleagues at the New York Times. How does tonights story now change everything . Well, this story by my colleagues really raises new questions about why is it we continue to learn about the meetings and we werent told about them before . March don jr. Told us at the times that he had no meetings as part of the campaign with the russians, that there had been nothing nothing there. And it had to be clear to them at the time that the russia story was going to continue to go on and on. But still his story even in the past few days change. At first he said the meeting was about adoption and nonyou know as things went further on the weekend. So the question here is why hasnt the Administration Come out you know earlier about in and why do the stories continue to change . Just more evidence of that. Phillip is one of of the cases where we are left to assume someones story change migranted because that someone, in this case donald trump jr. , knew what was about to come out . You know partly that. Its also the story change as donald trump jr. Learned what the New York Times was learning over the last 72 hours. It seemed like the story got more and more complicated the more interaction there was with the reporters doing the pretty extraordinary reporting. There are a lot of questions to be answer pd by the trump team, the white house, the Legal Defense team, including what the president knew about all of this back when he was a candidate and whether there were other meetings. One thing that stuck out at the white house was that sarah public Huckabee Sanders explained this as not inappropriate as frankly normal behavior upon a campaign, normal sorts of interactions on a campaign. And it just begs the question of whether there were additional meetings with additional players. And phil, because you are White House Bureau chief i was going to ask you i did read on a o on twitter ill parafriez glenn tlush tweeted out tonight if the house knew this was coming, this is again an area where there was no apparent strategy. Has there been a reaction tonight to this . Not yet. Weve seen the president s private personal lawyer say that he knew nothing about in meeting, that donald trump jr. Had. And of course early yerl today the white house spokes william Sarah Huckabee sanders said the president only learned about the meeting in the last couple of days because of the news reports. But there is no indication of a broader strategy within the white house theyve really been trying to isolate this russia issue and keep it focused with the Legal Defense team. So of the four of us i mean this in the nicest way katie tur you spent the most time hanging around the lobby of trump tower. Today as well. Today what was going on in time in the life of the Trump Campaign . I know youve been writing a book. So a lot of this youve just been through all over again. Yeah. What was going on back then. This is june 9th, 2016 this was a pivot altime he was face ago serious deg git fight at the convention it was unclear he would be able to hold on to the nomination. The campaign brought in somebody who knew how to do that his name was Paul Manafort. Cory lewandowski was the Campaign Manager. And there was a power struggle between manafort and Cory Lewandowski at the time the kids were sick of lewandowski. They wanted him out. They wanted march in. The kids were amissing power and influence with their father, trying to set an agenda. So when someone like don jr. Says, hey, i have a meeting and you should come to it youre going to that meeting is your name is Paul Manafort if your name is frankly anybody in that campaign. Flfs something of a an unprofessional atmosphere in in campaign, a naive atmosphere, an anything goes sort offer. It was the kind of place where unplanned meetings with unnamed people were frequent, stopping new a hallway saying this person is coming by. There wasnt a vetting process. It was not a professional campaign. So its easy to imagine one of these sorts of things flying under the radar. What was going on, though in don jr. s head . Thats unclear. Did he know this was going to be problematic Going Forward . It doesnt seem likely from the people that ive spoken with. More that they they were just in this atmosphere trying desperately to get something that would move the needle in their fathers direction because things were not going well. But the big headline of this, brian, is that as of a year ago, don jr. Knew at least a little bit that the russian government was trying to aid his fathers campaign. Mr. Schmidt thats kind of the centering point here. We all need to remind ourselves that if true, if the email is verified thats what were talking about here. Let me ask a question that didnt exist at this time yesterday. Tell me what you know about this russian female attorney, daughter of a very connected man in terms of the kremlin and putin. What do we know about her, her motives how long has she been in and around the United States. This is something that actually has been on the fbi radar for some time. When we talked to Law Enforcement officials over the past few days. They said this is someone they tracked. The United States, the fbi specifically spent a lot of time looking at russians inside the United States that may be working for the kremlin. We dont know specifically what the fbi knew about her. With you we also know that Robert Mueller the special counsel himself did not know a lot about this meeting. And he himself will be diving into this and trying to figure out what went on there. This speaks to a larger point about this investigation, is that there will be things like this that come up and you pull on the threads and they turn into larger things. And it forces mueller to go look at them some people said mueller will be able to get to the bottom of this in a year. As we move forward there is more and more questions, more things that have to be looked into. Mueller is going to be painstaking in how he does that. This will drag longer than we think. One of the things one never wants to hear is what michael just said about mueller. Oh mueller will be diving into this. Yeah, he will be. You know what he is staffing up. He has a lot of lawyers working on the team now. There is no sign this is going to be a short investigation. Indeed it may go on a few years. Its something the white house is prepared for. I was interviewing a pretty senior official in the west wing late last week while the president was overseas. We were talking about russia and the mueller says. He said look we feel like the russia story is behind us. We havent talked about it in the last we can or so. It may be over its behind us. Clearly its not behind them and the i think the white house has to teal with the fact that is the reality for years to come potentially. Katie tur at the risk of going gail shea, talk about donald trump jr. He was around the campaign a lot and relationship between father and son. Well, they had a contentionious relationship at one point where don jr. Wasnt speaking to his father over the divorce. That was past them. Theyd grown closer. He was one of the people that his father went to for advice. The kids, don jr. Among them were the ones who could sway him in one direction when he needed to be wayed not all the time. It took them months to get lewandowski out. But he was also someone relatively friendly to press. You could go talk to him and he would be forthcoming with what he knew at the time. But they all soelt felt very much and don jr. Included abstill feel this which there was a campaign a crusade out totting to get them they were very much on the defensive. At the time they were feeling like the media was not treating them fairly as they still feel. They were looking for anything what so far in order to try and claw their way back up. Ultimately, you know, the question is going to be, what exactly would they do . How far would they go to get there . And at the very least this does make it seem like there was at least a willingness about the idea of collusion. And this needs to be said as we bring the first segment to an end. This is a Big Development tonight, another one that came out, not the result of disclosure at a government level as much as it did the result and hard work of a free press, despite charges of fake news all around us. Our thanks to three members of that robust news media, katie tur with Michael Schmidt phil rucker thank you for tonight. Coming up the chief ethics lawyer in the george w. Bush administration weighs in when the 11th hour continues. The future isnt silver suits and houses on mars, its right now. Think about it. We can push buttons and make cars appear out of thin air. Find love anywhere. Hes cute. And buy things from, well, everywhere. How . Because our phones have evolved. So isnt it time our networks did too . Introducing americas largest, most reliable 4g lte combined with the most wifi hotspots. Its a new kind of network. Xfinity mobile. All im Say Something the facts reported in the New York Times article come very close if not crossing the line with respect to treason if those facts are true. We need to find out whats true. Strong words from the chief ethics lawyer for former president george w. Bush and the white house about how legally significant this meeting between donald trump jr. And in russian lawyer really is. With us to talk about his claim is richard painter who now teaches law at the university of minnesota. Also with us our friend paul butler former federal prosecutor focused on public corruption while at doj prosecuting a u. S. Senator and fbi agents. For his part he teaches law at georgetown. Richard painter, what as it has happened as alleged in the New York Times, what is illegal about it . Well we now have even more information. We are told that donald trump jr. Received an email and informing him that the russians wanted to help his fathers president ial campaign. He was also told that the russian had derogatory information about Hillary Clinton before the meeting. At that point any loyal american would have called the fbi because we know how the russians get derogatory information about people. Its the way thief been doing it ever since the 1917 russian revolution, by conducting espionage and trying to destabilize western governments. Theyve been trying to do this to us. He would have called the fbi if he had been acting responsibly. But instead he goes to the meeting and brings along to the meeting apparently Jared Kushner and mr. Manafort, the Campaign Manager. Weve got the top three people the top brass of a Political Campaign at a meeting and were supposed to believed that Nothing Happened . Nyet. We know. How does in compare if the Clinton Campaign was trying to work through local folks to get the new Infamous Trump dossier, would that have been the same thing in the eyes of the law as this. Were still all of us getting used to the notion of russians having anything to do with american politics of course. Thats right, brian, its a federal crime to solicit a contribute attention from a Foreign National backup trump says he went to meeting and now nigh he was meeting with a russian operative. When she didnt deliver thats when i got up and left. Thats still a federal crime if you solicit, try to get information from dirt on hillary from someone not allowed to participate in the selection. Soliciting doesnt neen a dollar amount necessarily tp. It can be something in kind. A thing of value or a service like opposition research. Richard painter, because i heard some lawyers bring it up this evening and i think this is a term of art that we better learn now. Can you please explain to all of us consciousness of guilt, as legal terminology and how it might play a role in this case of donald jr. First of all were told that the russians didnt deliver the goods at this meeting. But we know that the russians delivered the goods big time by november. And we are now learning for the first time of contacts between not only people in the campaign but the very top people in the campaign and russian agents. And to criminally prosecute someone, yes you need to to show mens rea to intent on their part at the time of the criminal to exit the crime. If they knew the russians obtained information illegally, of secretary clinton by hacking computers, by that engaging in espionage inside the United States. It would be a cranium for