News headquarters here in new york. Day 495 of the Trump Administration and were following breaking news that comes to us from the New York Times tonight that President Trump asked attorney general Jeff Sessions to take back control of the russia investigation after his decision to recuse himself, after he took himself out of the case. Michael schmidt reports that one saturday in march 2017, sessions flew to florida because the president wasnt taking his calls on the travel ban specifically. Quote, when they met, mr. Trump was ready to talk, but not about the travel ban. His grievance was with mr. Sessions. The president objected to his decision to recuse himself from the russia investigation. Mr. Trump who told aides he needed a loyalist overseeing the inquiry berated mr. Sessions and told him he should reverse his decision. An unusually and inappropriate request. Mr. Sessions refused. Times also says that confrontation which has not been previously reported is being investigated as you would imagine by special Counsel Robert Mueller along with trumps other attacks on sessions. So, we want to talk about this before we move on to all the other news from today and tonight. Were joined on the phone by one of the two reporters who broke this story tonight, michael schmidt, Pulitzer Prize winning writer for the times. Michael, remind our viewers, why would mueller be interested in this story, this meeting in florida between the president and his attorney general . The recusal of sessions has been the original sin in the entire investigation. The president believes and has said that if sessions had not recused himself, he doesnt think mueller would have ever been a int toed. The president said he wanted someone loyal to him overseeing the investigation. The question of loyalty is one of the issues the special counsel is looking at in terms of obstruction of justice. Why was the president so obsessed with having someone loyal to him on the investigation . Why he asked jim comey for his loyalty . Was it simply loyalty because the president is someone around him tloil him loyal to h there a reason he went after sessions publicly, why is he trying to get him to resign, what was really behind that . Did he try to install someone more loyal to him atop the Justice Department . Those are the questions michael, we observe around here from time to time as our phones get more modern, we sound more like ed morro from london as the connections get more terrible. If you can move to a window or open space for this next answer, id appreciate it. And it hearkens back to your interview with trump a couple days after christmas, where he said in effect, if not a direct quote, obama had holder to protect him, in effect, to watch his back. Meaning, whoever described to trump the president ial relationship with an a. G. Described it a certain way. He went on to think it was a certain way and was bemoaning the fact that sessions wasnt that to him. Correct. The president has really always wanted someone at the top of the Justice Department that he knew and could trust. He does not view the attorney general as someone as much who is out there to follow the facts and follow the law as it is someone that will be loyal to him. And he has said that. The president in one of his eruptions last year during when he learned either about when mueller was appointed or when sessions had recused, said, you know, he needed hes referring to his longtime personal lawyer who was sort of a fixer for him in new york city when he was a young and up and coming real estate person. And he said thats the type of person that he envisioned at the top of the Justice Department for him. You can see why he maybe didnt like jim comey as his attorney general and why he does president like the idea of Rod Rosenstein, someone he doesnt know running the investigation. Michael schmidt, our thanks to you for phoning into us. We really appreciate it. To our viewers, we apologize for the quality of the phone connection tonight. Moving on, though, the times report comes as President Trump and his legal team are taking their very public p. R. Campaign to discredit the Mueller Investigation to a new level. Earlier tonight during a Campaign Style rally in nashville, the president repeated the claim that someone had infiltrated his 2016 campaign. So, how do you like the fact they had people infiltrating our campaign . Can you imagine . Can you imagine . Never in the history of our country has something taken place like took place during this election. Well talk about that last assertion in a moment. Since saturday, President Trump has relentlessly attacked the russia investigation on twitter, among other things, calling it a witch hunt and rigged, two old classics there. Earlier today the president wrote, quote, the 13 angry democrats plus people who worked eight years for obama working on the rigged russia witch hunt will be meddling with the midterm elections, especially now that republicans stay tough are taking the lead in polls. There was no collusion, capital c, except by the democrats. Meanwhile, the Washington Post has new reporting on trump adding an unofficial job title, lets say, to his own. Ashley parker, josh dawsey, and Philip Rucker write, quote, the White House Communications directors job has been vacant for exactly two months, but in practice it has been filled since the day hope hicks said farewell to her unofficial replacement, President Trump himself. The president also has unofficially performed the roles of many other senior staffers in recent months, leaving the People Holding those jobs to execute on his instincts and ideas, and thats exactly how trump likes his west wing. Post goes on to report, quote, though trump continues to rage about special counsel robert s. Muellers investigation into russian interference in the 2016 president ial election, the president seems satisfied for now, at least, with his new legal team which includes giuliani and emmet t. Flood. Rudy giuliani has of course been a constant fixture in television and in print about this investigation since he was brought on last month. This sunday was no different. Giuliani spoke openly about his Public Opinion battle while on cnn. To a large extent, remember, dana, were defending here it is for Public Opinion because eventually the decision here is going to be impeach, not impeach. Remember the congress, democrat, and republican are going to be informed a lot by their constituents so our jury is the as it should be, is the american people. Let us bring in the rest of our lead off panel, shall we on a tuesday night. With thanks for their patience, the aforementioned Ashley Parker, Pulitzer Prize winning reporter for the washington most. Aforementioned Philip Rucker, bureau chief for the Washington Post. A rare visit to new york. Good evening to both of you. Ashley, lets back up over some stuff. Any proof of what the president was saying there in nashville that in the history of campaigning, a campaign had never been infiltrate today this extent . No. To answer your question, simply no. There is no proof. There is no good evidence of that description of the fbi informant. But thats sort of beside the point. Rudy giuliani for instance in talking to my colleague on that story josh dawsey, do you want to know why hes using spygate . Because it works. Its swaying Public Opinion. So for this portion of the legal exercise which is winning the p. R. Campaign publicly, facts in a lot of ways are beside the point. And facts are not what is moving the Public Opinion, but something ee volcanotive and catchy like spygate maybe. Phil, indeed your reporting is the president for now, while not ever sang win, is rather content with the com strategy. Thats exactly right. Hes dictating the message. What you have in the west wing is them following the message and what he lays out for them. Ashley is right about the legal strategy which is a p. R. Strategy and Rudy Giuliani is convinced this is work working. I talked to him late last week as well. He said this is going to continue. Youre going to keep hearing the watergate references. Youre going to hear a linkage between president obama and president nixon saying that obama did just what nixon did to break into the democratic headquarters and create this reality that they think can really undermine the Mueller Probe and make it make the public, the american people, view it in a partisan lens. Ashley, youve reported. Lets use some proper titles here. The war of the worlds environment has faded in the west wing. Fear and loathing continues, but maybe more of a game of thrones atmosphere. Explain. That is exactly right. This is actually not the first time we have heard that show evoked to describe this west wing, but initially it was meant to refer to the warring factions and the bloody feuds and the competing families. And that is sort of somewhat gone. And when people in the president s orbit and a number of them individually mention game of thrones to us unprompted, what theyre referring to more is the confusion, how sort of on that show you have to watch the preview to catch up. Its a little confusing and everyone is sort of at the end of the day a little unclear about where things stand in fighting for their own individual survival and that is the moment we have shifted to now. Phil rucker, i want to share with you a collection of clips we have put together from rue golf giuliani this weekend. It sure appears he was sent out with the instruction to use the word rigged. Here it is. Well talk about it on the other side. This is rigged. Youve got 13 democrats. Youve got a focus on things that didnt happen, no russia collusion, no obstruction. Just defending yourself. Whats wrong with the government trying to figure out what russia was up to . Nothing wrong with the government doing that. Everything wrong with the government spying on a candidate of the opposition party. Thats a watergate, a spygate. I mean, and without any warning to him. And now to compound that, to make it into a criminal investigation, bill, thats why this is a rigged investigation. Were more convinced as we see it that this is a rigged investigation. Now we have this whole new spygate thing thrown on top of it. Now, philip, where would he get talking points like, oh, i dont know, spygate and rigged . Maybe from the guy who at the end of his campaign in 2016 called that election rigged. This is straight out of Donald Trumps play book. And what i think hes trying to do is prepare people to discount whatever mueller ends up finding, if there is a report about detailing examples of obstruction of justice if there are further indictments. The half of america that is with donald trump is going to view that as rigged, as unfair, as not appropriate, as too partisan, as a political witch hunt to use another one of President Trumps phrases. I think this is strategically what hes trying to do to discount it. The same way when the polls were showing in october of 2016 Hillary Clinton was leading donald trump, trump was at rally after rally after rally saying the election is going to be rigged. The results might be rigged. You dont know what to believe if it turns out that im not going to win. Hes preparing people to discount the results. We didnt know it then, but it was one of the first attacks on our system and institutions on our democracy. Wear away, thats right. Ashley, you and i talked about this before, the president feels he does better when hes playing the victim. And this current strategy is fine until it isnt. What i mean is its giuliani on television because there is no one for the mueller effort. They dont leak. They dont speak. Until they do. And it reminds you of the kind of terrible swift sword and the imbalance of power, the government suddenly when they rise up and release another tranche of indictments or subpoenas, they get the power back. Thats exactly right. What youre seeing now is Rudy Giuliani is basically the televisions id. It doesnt matter that hes a wildly unreliable narrater. He gives interviews where he says wildly contradicting things. He says in one interview, i talk to the president every day. Another interview, i havent talked to him in several weeks. Muellers voice is silent. That has given him more than the differing narratives perhaps deserve. When muellers team does come out and it is unclear if and when they release the report, i do think you will then have sort of finally dueling narratives in this p. R. Strategy may potentially, even though they are priming the ground and thats what theyre doing, be less successful against a conclusive, thorough report by an impeccable team. And that moment, phil, youve said thats when you worry that trump is capable of doing something very big, very risky. Thats right. But i do think that for the moment now Rudy Giuliani is probably the best insurance policy for attorney general Jeff Sessions and Rod Rosenstein and bob mueller because i think for now trump thinks hes winning and he thinks hes got the upper hand over mueller and over the Justice Department. And as long as he has his person out there fighting for him, sources in the white house say they dont theyre not as worried that trump is going to pull the trigger and do something catastrophic, like firing people at the Justice Department. To our viewers, we always say this. We hope this show has launched a lot of subscriptions to the great newspapers of our time. And as by line duos go, parker rucker, rucker parker, you cant go wrong when you see either or both names. We seldom get to see them in new york. I was asked them earlier in today, what are they both doing in new york . Its the luncheon tomorrow for pulitzer winners. We couldnt be prouder to know Ashley Parker and Philip Rucker and we brag all the time youre part of our broadcast. Thank you both. Thank you, brian. Thank you. Coming up Jeff Sessions. And later President Trump once praised roseanne and her ratings, 18 viewers on a single night. What now with all that . The 11th hour on a work night getting underway. We are back, and as President Trump spent his Holiday Weekend lamb basting the russia investigation on twitter, there is still a lot of speculation about a possible sitdown with mueller, the special counsel. The Washington Post reports today that it comes down to access to classified documents about an fbi informant who made contact with the trump campaign, what the president keeps calling a spy or an infiltrator. According to the post, trump attorney rudy julg january is latest demand further ratcheted up the pressure trump and his lawyers are trying to place on special counsel robert s. Mueller iiis team as his investigation end alleged coordination into Trumps Campaign and russia reaches a key juncture. As for what an interview would consist of, there are reports that muellers team may limit questions to just two topics or areas. Heres what giuliani had to say about that on cnn this weekend. And if everything can be worked out, then they would probably limit it to collusion and obstruction. The collusion part, were pretty comfortable with because there has been none. The obstruction part im not as comfortable with, im not. The president is fine with it. Hes innocent. Im not comfortable because its a matter of interpretation, not just hard and fast true, not true. So, if you interpret his comment about firing mueller firing sorry, comey, no discussion of firing mueller, by the way. If you interpret that as obstructing the investigation as opposed to removing a guy who was doing a bad job on the recommendation in part of rosenstein, but you see it as obstructing the investigation, then you can say its obstruction. Lot to talk about there and lets do that. Peter baker chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times back with us tonight. Also back with us Jill Winebanks assistant and former watergate counsel. Watching that kind of slap jawed, if they have mueller limited to two categories, the questions for them, collusion and obstruction, thats like saying youve got a tornado to agree to death and destruction only. What does that mean . Well, i think you were right when you said in the beginning that this has all come down to a lot of p. R. , and you have an unanswered accusations from giuliani that mueller cannot and must not answer because hes acting appropriately. So, giuliani can say whatever he wants. And then he can say, and see how unfair it was . They didnt want to agree to that. They said they would and then they wouldnt. I dont believe they are going to agree to limit it to two things, but also in giulianis statement, he actually basically admitted that there is a good case for obstruction. He said, oh, im fine with collusion because theres no collusion. But obstruction, thats a matter of interpretation. And it isnt. Facts are a funny thing. The truth and the facts will come out and i dont think its going to show that its a matter of interpretation but of guilt. There is enough evidence that has become public, and thats without what muelle