Brian Williams examines the days top political stories and current politicalcampaign news. Brian Williams examines the days top political stories and current politicalcampaign news. Considered official white house statements . Well, the president is the president of the United States. So theyre considered official statements by the president of the United States. At least one republican was willing to speak candidly about the reaction among many lawmakers in the capital. Every morning we wake up, he tweets something, and were supposed to respond to his tweet. Mueller is going to finish his investigation and the truth will come out. Our leadopen panel, peter baker, chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times. Jill colvin, White House Reporter for the associated press. John heilemann, coauthor of game change. And harry litman, former u. S. Attorney, former Deputy AssistantAttorney General under president clinton. Good evening, all. Peter, i would like to read you what sally yates, formerly of the justice department, wrote today. Today our president called on his recused Attorney General to
shut down the investigation of his own campaign. As shocking as that is, whats even more dangerous is that weve gotten used to it. The rule of law wont evaporate overnight. But it can slip away if we let it. Peter, there we have the president s own words to judge him by this morning. This is on him. I guess this is one of those lessons, we get to see if words have consequences. Thats right. Look, whats fascinating is how much this plays out in public and out loud. What weve seen from the president s tweets is him saying what would have been a scandal had, say, president nixon been found to have said it privately in a taped session in the oval office. In fact the tape that finally undid him during watergate was hearing him order his aides to tell the cia to tell the fbi to lay off the watergate investigation. Here you have the president of the United States saying out loud, not in the privacy of the oval office but on twitter for everyone to read, the Attorney General of the United States who was appointed by him, should
command almost doesnt matter, although its a very, very tenuous distinction. Eight not on its not only the president thats saying this but hes saying in the same sentence, right now, its a rigged witch hunt, it is staining our country. Surely anyone who heard those words in the oval office would think he better remedy the situation or hes going to lose his job. But if what the president is trying to do in a mild way or a dictatorial way, is shut down the investigation, ill give you three other words, which are Obstruction Of Justice. Its a real possibility. And especially, brian, given the whole run of different tweets, all of which are admissible, he is really flirting with enhancing the criminal case against himself. So harry, as a former fed, you can say with some certainty
and the atmospherics in the west wing. Our sources tell us he is definitely not happy right now. The president was watching television, watching coverage of the beginning of the trial of Paul Manafort this morning. Were told that this is what sparked the flurry of tweets this morning. And one confidant told my colleague Jonathan Lemire earlier today that the president is in, quote, a dark place. The president has been furious. Its been building over the last couple of weeks, ever since he returned from helsinki. He was furious at the media, the way that he felt that he was not given enough credit for how things went with vladimir putin. He felt like he was being misportrayed and his summit with putin was misportrayed. He felt he didnt get enough credit for meeting with kim jongun in singapore and he has just been raging. Youve got the president who feels its not just the media who is attacking him but also the government thats coming and attacking him right now. Youve got, in addition to the manafort trial, the president has also been deeply shaken by the Ongoing Investigation into Michael Cohen, his long time fixer, and the release of that audio tape, that set him off. Anyone could say today that the president is not in a good place. John heilemann here in new york, what is it were witnessing . The president acts out. We see this over and over again, in a variety of different weighs. This is an expression of his id. Hes angry and afraid. He can see the walls closing in. I think hes somewhere close to panic right now. And thats part of Whats Going On. He still has some degree of political calculation thats governing what hes doing, because the reality is, as has been pointed out today, if he wanted to fire Rod Rosenstein and try to end this investigation, genuinely end it, he could call Rod RosensteinInto The White House and fire him. He has the ability to do that. But he obviously thinks, rightly or wrongly, we dont know if
hes right or wrong about this, but he thinks the political consequences of that on capitol hill would be too great. If he thought republicans would all just roll over, he would clearly do it, because he does have manifestly corrupt intent. He manifestly believes he would like to shut this entire thing down. One of the great banes of his presidency is the fact that Jeff Sessions recused himself to this and was not as loyal to him as he thought. Youve got the president making political calculations, not going as far as what his core wants him to do, because i think he would like to fire Rod Rosenstein. But at the same time, the outlet of twitter, and it really is, you know, we both remember brooklyn, can you imagine what would have happened if bill clinton had walked up to the white house podium and said Janet Reno Should Fire ken starr, or if he had taken to the oped page of the New York Times and said Janet Reno Should Fire ken starr, that would have provoked a
cataclysmic reaction, both democrat and republican. Thats a long time ago. Twitter is a sewer, a cesspool, a horrible medium in some ways, beneficial in others, but its the same thing as the podium and its the same thing as the oped page of the New York Times in 2018. Those words are hanging out there tonight. Harry, are you a member of the club, despite all the great bylines tonight, that will believe a mueller trump meeting when you see it . In other words, ill believe it when i see it, i dont think its going to happen. Im a long term Card Carrying Member of that club. However much they pare it down, it will be questions that if he answers them falsely, he will be subject to criminal penalty. And theyre not going to be softballs like, did you have corrupt intent. Theyll be things like, for example, did you know flynn was under investigation when you told comey to let up on him. Weve just had new reporting that shows he does. There are probably half a dozen other things that trump doesnt know and mueller does. And yeah, i dont see his sitting down with him under any circumstances, where theres criminal penalty for lying. And i Dont See Mueller sitting down with him where he gets a free pass for lying. So i see an impasse. Peter baker, we knew, as if we needed any help, that the president s words were going to be impactful on twitter this morning, the minute we learned how many News Organizations got what the president meant to say phone calls afterwards, and yours among them. Absolutely. Theyre trying very hard to make the point, this is just an opinion, this is not a command. Thats because they understand there is a line there, theyve drawn the line, at least. He can express an opinion, he can say it should be shut down but wont actually order it, because as john says correctly, he does perceive that to be a step too far, at least for the
moment. So far hes convinced himself or been convinced that firing Rod Rosenstein or attempting to Fire Bob Mueller would be would create such a blowback against him legally and politically that its not worth the effort. Hes trying to continue to shape public opinion, to make sure at least his base and maybe some other people believe this investigation isnt legitimate, that there is no reason to believe what they hear that might come out of the Paul Manafort trial, from anything else that might come out of this investigation, and to prepare the ground for what might amount to a big political battle later on when we do here more results from the investigation, either this summer or after the election. Jill colvin, we witnessed three whole News Media Briefings for the month of july from the white house. They are, i should point out, 10 for august so far. We had one today, but the president is about to go down for ten days, Rush Limbaugh was able to talk to him today. Is the philosophy going to be
friendlies preferred . I mean, thats long been the strategy of this administration, especially when they feel under fire, they try to keep the president away from reporters, away from situations where he could turn the tweets into a kind of standing press conference, gaggle back and forth, and make matters worse. I thought it was really interesting, this week its also bill shine really stepping into his role as the new communications chief. We had a really interesting thing that happened yesterday when we were standing outside the oval office. We were waiting for the president to do a swearingin ceremony and bill shine actually came out and told reporters ahead of time, the president will not be answering questions. You can try, but he is not going to do it. And thats exactly what happened. Were seeing this new well see how long it heselasts, but degree of the president not engaging. That may be because everyone around the president is getting more serious because he could be
in serious trouble. Do you think theres any acknowledgement, deep, dark, in the west wing, or in the residence tonight, that he would like to take that back today . I dont know on his part. In the residence, probably not. Certainly a lot of us were in the building when he did what he did. To get back to the situation with mueller and the interview, you know, i think a lot of people are going to interpret in a somewhat panicked way the notion that mueller is giving ground, to limit the questions on Obstruction Of Justice. To me it indicates a position of strength. When you look at harry litmans regulatory in the New York Review Of Books, We Know Mueller has talked to mcgahn and they have already testified to him that yes, trump had been presented with a timeline and with evidence of the fact that the fbi was investigating flynn on criminal charges before he had his conversation with comey, telling comey to lay off, that
there is memos, documentation that mueller has that hes heard from those witnesses, it all feels to me like what this is about is mueller conveying the notion that, i can cut back to half of my questions on Obstruction Of Justice because i dont actually need that much from you, mr. President , ive already got this case basically made, its not a position of weakness, its a position of strength. I think thats making the president , among many other things, feel nervous and making the people around him feel even more nervous. Does it get more highbrow than someone quoting the New York Review Of Books on our broadcast . I dont think it does. Thank you all for helping us out on a wednesday night. Coming up for us, is the president s behavior a clue of whats to come . We ask a former fbi agent what he thinks. And later, if you were curious about those cuqs that popped up in the crowd in the president s rally wednesday night, well have that coming
up. The 11th hour getting under way beneath the dome on a wednesday night. With the new Chase Ink Business unlimited card i get unlimited 1. 5 cash back. Its so simple, i dont even have to think about it. So i think about mouthfeel. Introducing Chase Ink Business unlimited with unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase. Told us the president s words on twitter count in this investigation. As weve been saying so far tonight, just days ago, the times reported that mueller is examining all the president has said about sessions. He can throw this mornings tweet on the pile. Clint watts, former fbi special agent, his latest, messing with the enemy surviving in a social media world of hackers, terrorists, russians, and fake news. And shannon pettypiece, White House Correspondent for bloomberg. Clint, i have to ask you, if you came across the type of behavior we are seeing from the nations Chief Executive in your old day job at the fbi, how would that alter your investigation . What would that do . It just adds to the pile. And it continues the timeline. I think several interesting things about this Obstruction Angle is, were hearing some negotiation from the mueller
team about taking written responses to questions and then sitting down for an interview. Im sure isnt that just to get him in the door . It is. And it could play very much to the president s disadvantage strategically, because as weve seen, the president doesnt like to read very much. I doubt hes actually going to be the one crafting up all these statements. Hell be working with his legal team. Thats probably correct, yes. Hell have to go in and understand and know what the statements are that are on the paper and be able to speak to those. The other thing, the president is at a huge disadvantage, he doesnt know everyone that mueller has talked to, what they have told him, and what documents, texts, emails, phone calls theyve had with each other behind the scenes that also match up to a timeline. Weve seen just here on nbc news where the president has said, well, comey, when i got rid of him, it was because of this russia thing. So these are public things that are very damning. The timelines are damning. Even if he did not actually obstruct, its just the attempt
to obstruct that can be held as a charge. So in terms of how the investigation progresses, it seems to me the mueller team probably has all the data it needs to ask these questions, have the president come in. And that is going to be very difficult, i imagine, for the president to negotiate and be consistent both with the written statement and with the timeline thats been laid out in front of them. Shannon pettypiece, any acknowledgement by those around the president that his tone isnt always that of an innocent man . Absolutely. His lawyers, his legal advisers, you know, around a year ago, when he first started building up the legal team, really emphasized to him that you cannot be making public attacks against mueller personally or against this investigation. And they were successful for a while, if you remember, back to the summer last time, where trump would say no collusion, and he pretty much tamped down any personal attacks on mueller. But that strategy he felt wasnt
really working for him. And there was a moment, really particularly after the Michael Cohen raid, where he took the gloves off. And he had already been starting to test the waters, he had already been racheting up this rhetoric about a witch hunt. He had been told that this investigation would be done by the end of 2017 by his lawyers. It wasnt. He continued seeing indictments coming from people involved in his administration and campaign. That moment, that Michael Cohen raid, was really the moment he said, forget this, the gloves are coming off, im going on full attack mode. Rudy giuliani was brought in with the specific, you know, point or goal of being the public attack dog against mueller. So this is a conscious strategy at this point. And it is a major shift from where we were a year ago when the legal advice was, stay cool, lets cooperate, and try and get this thing over with quickly. And shannon, you also wrote about the State Of Play in the will mueller and trump sit down. It looks like mueller is trying to say whatever you need to do to get the guy in here and get him in the door. Thats typically how these negotiations work. And to the point the guests were making earlier, does it look like muellers caving, mueller really knows the answer to a lot of his answers. To the point clint was making, to some extent the Trump Legal Team does know what the documents are out there, they know what the witnesses have said to some extent. But mueller has many, many more pieces of this puzzle than the president s legal team does, and he knows the answer to many of the questions hes going to ask. He wants to get those on record. Around obstruction, one of the main ones is to determine the president s intent. So yes, if they have to concede on some areas to get to the areas they really want, thats what theyre doing, and thats typically for how these things go between a prosecutor and a Defense Lawyer in any of these sort of carefully choreographed negotiations. Clint watts has agreed to stick around. Were going to put his web
training to use when we talk about the newest fringe group we saw last night at the president s rally. So clint, our thanks for now. Shannon pettypiece, our thanks as always for com