Transcripts For MSNBCW The 11th Hour With Brian Williams 201

MSNBCW The 11th Hour With Brian Williams December 4, 2018

Investigation. All of it as the 11th hour gets under way on this monday night. Good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. As we prepare to bring to a close day 683 of the Trump Administration, tonight it was the presidency of another man that has dictated the decidedly somber tone and tenor of our capital city as this evening president George Herbert walker bush, 41, is resting in the rotunda of the u. S. Capitol as members of the public are allowed to file in and pay their respects. The casket arrived in washington late this afternoon from houston. Just a few hours ago president up from and his wife melania was among those who came to the capitol paying their respects. We will have more of course on the life and the loss of our 41st president later in it broadcast, including the fact that his passing comes at a time of such great crisis for this current white house. And soon after observing at least some period of respectful silence on social media, today the president launched an attack on twitter. And this was unique in president ial history for its content. It came as he went after his former righthand man while praising a longtime political ally. Trump actually called for his former lawyer, michael cohen, to get prison time. In response to a court filing from cohens lawyers ahead of his sentencing next week in which they asked for leniency. Trump writes, and we quote, you mean he can do all of the terrible unrelated to trump things having to do with fraud, big loans, taxis, et cetera, and not serve a long prison term . He makes up stories to get a great and already reduced deal for himself. He lied for this outcome and should in my opinion serve a full and complete sentence. One other detail that may have trump on edge. The filing from cohens lawyers also says he consulted with trumps Legal Counsel as he prepared for his false testimony about trump tower moscow. Trumps twitter rant about cohen was followed by an extraordinary message about roger stone. Reportedly under scrutiny by mueller for alleged ties to wikileaks. Yesterday stone said this about trump. Theres no circumstance under which i would testify against the president because id have to bear false witness against him. Id have to make things up. And im not going to do that. Here is trumps response today. I will never testify against trump. This statement was recently made by roger stone, essentially stating that he will not be forced by a rogue and out of control prosecutor to make up lies and stories about President Trump. Nice to know that some people still have guts. The president added this about the special counsel, bob mueller, who is a much different man than people think. And his out of control band of angry democrats dont want the truth, they only want lies. The truth is very bad for their mission. Tonight theres a yahoo news report that Robert Muellers prosecutors have told defense lawyers that they are tying up loose ends in their investigation. Either way, this could be a critical week in the mueller investigation. I know we say that a lot. Thats because tomorrow muellers prosecutors will file sentencing documents for the former National Security adviser Michael Flynn. Officials are telling nbc news that friday the government will also submit a sentencing memo for michael cohen. Also on friday prosecutors are expected to explain why Paul Manaforts plea agreement collapsed. So we could learn a lot. New reporting on manafort from the New York Times also reveals that in 2017, and people are still processing this one, he tried to broker a deal with ecuador to hand wikileaks founder Julian Assange over to u. S. Authorities. With all of that lets bring in our leadoff panel for a monday night. John heilemann, our msnbc National Affairs analyst. He is also coauthor of game change and cohost of the circus on showtime. Barbara mcquade, former u. S. Attorney for the Eastern District of michigan. And chuck rosenberg, former u. S. Attorney himself, also a former senior fbi official. Welcome to you all. Barbara, as you read the material in the president s tweets, what does it read like you to . Well, i think those who are saying this gets close to obstruction of justice have a point here. You know, if you were to say these things privately, i think many people would raise an eyebrow about obstruction of justice. And i dont think it makes any difference that they were said outwardly. I dont know that anyone would charge him for any one of these statements alone. But when you look at the pattern of behavior it all makes a compelling case i think for obstruction of justice. A jury would be told to look at the totality of the circumstances and draw fair inferences as to whether the person had a corrupt intent when they were talking about witnesses or the outcome of a case. And i think that these two tweets fall into that pattern along with many others like the firing of jim comey, the alleged request for a loyalty pledge, and so i think this just adds to the pile of evidence that would suggest there may be obstruction of justice here. Chuck, ill give you the fact that it takes some getting used to coming from an american president. Az keep calling it, this scorsesean language about rats in effect and people turning and remaining strong under questioning. But having says that, keeping what barbara just said in mind, does this read to you actionable or does it just read foolhardy . Brian, i always keep what barbara says in mind. It reads to me actionable. For precisely the reason that barbara stated. The hardest thing for prosecutors to do is prove intent. And as barbara noted, one way you prove intent is by looking at pattern of conduct. So one hyperbolic or scorsesean tweet at a time, no, its not sufficient. No one of those tweets is. But when you lay them on top of each other or you lay them end to end or whatever sort of metaphor you prefer, thats your passport and thats how you show intent. One false tax return is probably not actionable. But filing false tax returns for a decade is. Because in the latter scenario, brian, youve shown a pattern of conduct and it takes away the excuse that it was an accident or a mistake. John, your role around here is often to answer the question what is going on here. We have the body of a former president en route to washington today. The current president saying all this on twitter. Trying to effect a jail sentence with a federal judge. And again kind of supporting someone for not cooperating in a federal case in his own government. Look, there have been moments in this presidency where the hand of fate and mortality have given us some contrasts that have been the subjective much discussion. The death of john mccain is one example. And now the death of George Herbert walker bush is another. Where to try to summon an idea in your head that either one of those men, one who was president , one who wanted to be president very much and could have been, would ever have been behaving in a way that was remotely within the solar system as our current president is is beyond most peoples comprehension. Anybody who knew those men or even anyone in the American Public who watched them on television with any degree of care or acuteness. Look, i think we are you know, were seeing this reporting that says were in the endgame. I think the president recognizes that were in the endgame. You look at the calendar now. Were going to see in short order, were going to see filings from the mueller team that relate to the manafort plea deal being rejected and why it was rejected. Were going to see Michael Cohens sentencing. Were going to see a detailed filing on the matter of Michael Flynn. All before christmas. Were going to see all those things. And as the calendar compresses and we look up and realize were now a year since President Trumps lawyers were telling him and telling the public it would be over by a year ago and its not over. And things have just gotten worse and worse and worse. I think the president s behavior is symptomatic not just of the kind of potential legal violations that chuck has talked about and others have talked about, barbara has talked about, but also of a man who may be finally starting to see the writing on the wall. Barbara, its not exactly sexy of our viewers at 11 00 eastern time to promise them Court Filings coming up in the next several days. But the truth is were getting Court Filings in the next several days. Tell us, help us understand what they may say and what we may know by this time next week. I agree. They might be very enlightening. When someone is sentenced it is customary for the prosecutor to write a sentencing memo that tells the judge all about the persons conduct, misconduct, and cooperation. All of the good things that the person has done by way of cooperation and all of his crimes, including whats known as relevant conduct. For example, even though Michael Flynn was only charged with and pled guilty to false statements, he may have done some other things that the parties will agree get discussed as relevant conduct. All of that gets included in a sentencing memo. Same thing for michael cohen. Were going to learn about not only all the things he did but all the information about his cooperation as well. And with regard to Paul Manafort i think were going to find out, Robert Mueller has promised to share the crimes and lies that caused them to sever their relationship. I think all three of those documents are going to be very enlightening and start to fill in some of the pieces of the puzzle. Exactly there along those same lines, chuck, you are often telling us that mueller has told this story in slow motion but in real time but these filings from his associates. Do you expect by the end of this week a new chapter will exist . I think well have more pieces of the puzzle. The funny thing about this jigsaw, brian, is that we dont know what the box top is. We dont know what the final picture will look lick. But mueller has been filling in pieces of this as we go. And heres the important thing about it. I hope people appreciate the level of professionalism and dignity that bob mueller and his team bring to this task. Its not an easy one. Theyve been pilloried by the president of the United States. Im sure they would love to speak out, defend themselves. But the only thing they do over and over again is quietly and in a dignified and professional way speak in court. Were going to get a lot more of the puzzle pieces this week. I dont aennt think were goint all of them. And im not sure were at the end yet. I think theres more to come. Wow. That gets our attention. Can you help us out a little bit . Well, this is what im getting at. We believe there are clues the mueller team wants to charge other people. Corsi perhaps or stone perhaps. If that happens and they want to go to trial, which is their constitutional right, that could be months and months away. And if they want to flip those people, get them to cooperate, that would have to follow a conviction. There are probably some loose ends that hes tying up, brian. But if others are charged and go to trial, this thing aint over. See, john heilemann, this is why we have legal guests of this caliber. And then on the journalism side we have a guy like you. And question number two to you is this. What is it likely be environmentally for this president . He is one of five in the national cathedral. In midweek, a week that will see the kinds details come out that barbara and chuck are talking about. You know, the president has not exhibited i would say, and ill speak here with great understatement. Has not exhibited always grace under pressure in public settings. Its obviously been galling to him to have been excluded for instance from the mccain funeral. The notion hes going to be at least allowed to attend this funeral must give him some degree of comfort, although hes not being asked to spaerks and im sure that is galling to him on another level. I think the president is remarkably unreflective. Hes remarkably unintrospective. Hes always thinking about himself but hes not thinking about how other people think about him. He is a classic narcissist. And i neap in the strict psychoanalystic sense. He has no sense of how people see him. Its possible that for any other normal human would be a remarkably awkward moment, to be seated among the other president s and heads of state and grandees that he won be feeling the things you and i would be feeling under similar circumstances. Its also possible given his state right now of agitation and rage that regardless of whether he has that sense of reflection he will still be in a world of hurt and a world of discomfort as he sits there stewing in the understanding that hes not and i think does understand this. That hes not like the rest of them. And, this ladies and gentlemen, is the new week of coverage we begin effective here tonight. To john heilemann, to barbara mcquade, to chuck rosenberg. Our thanks. Cant thank you enough for starting out this broadcast on a monday night of yet another consequential week. And coming up, as the nation stops to mourn and remember our 41st president we are joined by three people who knew george h. W. Bush. And later, an important moment arrives tomorrow for the president s cia director. The 11th hour is just getting under way on this monday night. Metastatic Breast Cancer is relentless, but im relentless too. Mbc doesnt take a day off, and neither will i. And i treat my mbc with new everyday verzenio the only one of its kind that can be taken every day. In fact, verzenio is a cdk4 6 inhibitor for postmenopausal women with hr , her2 metastatic Breast Cancer, approved, with hormonal therapy, as an everyday treatment for a relentless disease. Verzenio an ai is proven to help women have significantly more time without disease progression, and more than half of women saw their tumors shrink vs an ai. 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Be relentless. Ask your doctor about everyday verzenio. This is moving day with the best inhome wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. And this is moving day with Reliable Service appointments in a twohour window so youre up and running in no time. Show me decorating shows. This is staying connected with xfinity to make moving. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and twohour appointment windows. Click, call or visit a store today. Our former president george h. W. Bush 41 is being remembered for many things tonight. But a lot of people chief among them is the period between the fall of the berlin wall and the fall of the old soviet union. And upon his passing there were actually words of praise from the kremlin that read to some as a kind of trolling of our current president even given all the russia entanglements hes got. The Washington Post explains the kremlin reaction this way. In moscow his death provoked an outpouring of nostalgia saturday for an american leader who chose careful diplomacy over brinksmanship as the postwar order was thrown into disarray. Russians recalled bygone days of summits, treaties and transatlantic statecraft, a contrast to the present tableau of disruptions and uncertainties from the trump white house. With us tonight john mclaughlin, former Deputy Director of the cia, who also happened to serve as acting director in 2004. And john, lets start on the news. On russia. I wanted to ask you this a few days back. And then well get to 41. What we learned about russia in the past several days means among other things, especially in your line of work, theyve known for two years that the president had someone around him who was telling a lie about russia. Thats right, brian. It is classic russian behavior to take that kind of thing and use it against someone. You know the term kompromat. Some people say isnt that a little like Opposition Research in our political system . No. Opposition research is generally done to weaken an opponent. When the russians collect information like that, knowing that someone is lying when the American Public doesnt know about it, they think of that as levera leverage. Leverage. In that period of time had this never come to light now that its out in the open, perhaps that leverage is weakened or gone, but had this never come to light that would be important leverage under the american president , as would be the exchanges that took place between donald jr. And russia prior to the famous trump tower meeting. Had that never come to light, that would be something in the russians pocket to use as leverage in a crucial situation with us. Now lets shift to the reason i will probably see you in washington in the coming days. And that is the death of your former boss at the cia. And on that subject, while this is going to differ a bit in tone from our current president here is 41 about half a dozen years ago talking about his time at cia. A very happy thing in my life. And because i love the short time i spent there. And i have Great Respect for cia and for the intelligence community. And

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