Encircling him and some of his associates. The reporting is the work of four journalists, including michael schmidt, who joins us in just a moment. The Trump Presidency is under criminal investigation, and trumps public battles against the inquiries have become a signature of his administration thus far. A number of actions, including the firing of james comey, reportedly ordering the white House Counsel to fire Robert Mueller and ordering Jeff Sessions to end the mueller effort have raised questions about obstruction. However, this new times report, quote, reveals the extent of an even more sustained, more secret assault of mr. Trump on the machinery of federal law enforcement. Perhaps the biggest revelation in this piece is that trump may have tried to interfere with the investigation involving his former lawyer, Michael Cohen, about hush money payments, youll recall, made during the 2016 campaign. That investigation is being handled by the Southern District of new york, which is, despite its somewhat misleading name, in effect, the Manhattan Branch of the u. S. Department of justice. According to the times quote, mr. Trump called Matthew Whitaker, his newly installed attorney general, with a question. He asked whether jeffrey berman, the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york and a trump ally could be put in charge of the widening investigation. Mr. Whitaker, who had privately told associates that part of his role at the Justice Department was to jump on a grenade for the president said he could not do that. He complained about his inability to pull levers at the Justice Department that could make the president s many legal problems go away. That report appears to somewhat contradict what Matt Whitaker told the House Judiciary Committee nearly two weeks ago. The president did not ask for and i did not provide any commitments, promises concerning the special counsels investigation or any other investigation. Later at that same hearing, whitaker was specifically asked about the Southern District of new york. Did you ever have any conversations with the president about firing or reassigning any personnel, u. S. Attorneys or others who work with the Southern District of new york . With the president or anybody . Anybody at all. I want to know whether you talked to President Trump at all about the Southern District of new yorks case involving Michael Cohen. I am not going to discuss my private conversations with the president of the United States. New york times goes on to add this about the reported call between trump and whitaker. Quote, what exactly mr. Whitaker did after the call is unclear, but there is no evidence that he took any direct steps to intervene in the manhattan investigation. He did, however, tell some associates at the Justice Department that the prosecutors in new york required adult supervision. A Justice Department spokeswoman told the times the president had not asked mr. Whitaker to interfere in the investigation. Trump himself was asked about the times report directly just this afternoon. Did you ask acting attorney general Matthew Whitaker to change the leadership of the investigation of your former personal attorney, Michael Cohen . No, not at all. Thats more fake news. There is a lot of fake news out there. No, i didnt. What is your relationship like with mr. Whitaker . Very good. Hes a great guy. Hes a straight shooter. I watched some of his hearing. I think hes exceptional. Hes a very fine man and he should be given a lot of thanks from our nation. For now Matt Whitaker remains at the Justice Department on the federal payroll as a senior counselor just as trumps new attorney general, william barr, has now taken over the department for the second time in his career. Our panel will be here to break all this down in just a moment, but first to get to the very latest on this reporting, we are joined on the phone by one of its authors. Michael schmidt, Pulitzer Prize winning correspondent with the New York Times. Michael, we are reminded that a lot of this took place just this winter. Yes, your extended piece of reporting has a twoyear timeline on it, but remember, of course, as you well know, whitaker just came in in november. So this is almost a realtime narrative. These efforts, as you report them, happened just very recently. Talk about the significance of that. One of the overarching themes of our piece is that this type of efforts the president has done, his attempts to control the investigation, have not stopped, they havent abated. He has continued to try in different ways to gain control of it. He doesnt seem to have learned a lot of lessons along the way. He discusses the idea of unrecusal, sort of a madeup legal concept with his acting attorney general. Same concept he was talking about in march of 2017, just two years into office, after Jeff Sessions, his attorney general at the time, recused himself in the russia investigation. Sessions never went back to take over the investigation, but it did create a problem for him with mueller. And mueller looked at this issue. And here we are looking at the same thing again. The other thing that runs through all this is loyalty. The president s obsession with the person overseeing the investigation being loyal to him. It starts with jim comey seven days after the president is sworn in with a oneonone dinner at the white house asking for loyalty. Its the same issue with whitaker and trying to have someone loyal to him overseeing the investigation in new york city. Im going to play a moment for our viewers. Theyll be able to see it, youll be able to hear it. You know it well. This is the president reacting in realtime to the news of the raid on Michael Cohens home and office here in new york. Its a disgrace. Its frankly a real disgrace. Its an attack on our country in a true sense. Its an attack on what we all stand for. I recognized i called it a raid. Thats probably prejudicial. It was a lawfully executed search warrant in more than one location. Michael, its very possible the president s emotion and anger there were real, though im not sure most americans would define it as an attack on our nation, because this is just a Family Business and a family law practice were talking about. Donald trump knew exactly what was in those files and what perhaps was on those recordings that the feds seized. At the heart of the cohen issue is something the president has created a red line against since december 2017. He said at the time if mueller were to look at his finances, it would be crossing that line. Well, it ultimately wasnt mueller, it was these prosecutors in new york who had sort of an offshoot of the Mueller Investigation. But when theyre going in to Michael Cohens office and looking at these things, they are heading down the road of looking at the president s finances. And that is where the investigation has focused, looking around at a couple payments, the role that the Trump Organization played in that. The president and his money is something hes been very opaque about. He has not wanted to have a lot of sunlight on that issue. He hasnt wanted his taxes out there. And the fear amongst his lawyers and the folks around him is that whatever is going on downtown in manhattan will turn into something larger about the Trump Organization. Theyre keeping a very, very close eye on that. Theyre afraid that could create more problems for him. Ive read this piece of work by the four of you twice through, and im still finding little bits of interest in it. Fwauk how notable the portion of the president firing Jeff Sessions and firing Michael Cohen in return. He wanted to get rid of Jeff Sessions, and hes trying to find someone to get rid of the attorney general, to push him out, to fire him. Because the president doesnt seem to have the ability to do that himself. He turns to folks around him, his advisers, people in the white house, talking to his white House Counsel and advisers and such. Who does he call . Corwin lewandowski, the old campaign journalist of his. Lewandowski was not around at the time and was sort of able to get himself out of it. But it showed the desperation the president would turn to that he could have lawfully gotten fired. The president said he could do it himself but didnt have the ability or the drive to do it. Michael schmidt, thank you so much for being with us. Now lets bring in our brand new leadoff panel to talk about all of it. Chuck rosenberg, former senior fbi official. Now in criminal justice at the pace school of law. And former council to the house intel committee. Jeremy, id like to begin with you. Mark rozzetti, one of the four reporters on this piece, said separately tonight they gave the white house a headsup, looked for comment days in advance apparently. The white house chose not to save the president s response today, that this was fake news. Does that tell you about the undermining of democracy. The president undermined democracy for bringing power to himself much as an autocrat would. If you think about hiring family members, if you think about der clarg an emergency. These are all things that an autocrat would do. So this assault on the rule of law, this effort to undermine investigations into his own conduct is really a piece of that broader tableau about the undermining of our democracy. Rick, talk to me about his description of his job, with the inability to be an acting attorney general. Sure, brian. Intel committee. Jeremy, id like to begin with you. Mark rozzetti, one of the four reporters on this piece, said separately tonight they gave the white house a headsup, looked for comment days in advance apparently. The white house chose not to save the president s response today, that this was fake news. Does that tell you about the undermining of democracy. The president undermined democracy for bringing power to himself much as an autocrat would. If you think about hiring family members, if you think about der clarg an emergency. These are all things that an autocrat would do. So this assault on the rule of law, this effort to undermine investigations into his own conduct is really a piece of that broader tableau about the undermining of our democracy. Rick, talk to me about his description of his job, with the inability to be an acting attorney general. Sure, brian. Whitakers description of his role or the role of an attorney general, on frankly any Senior Leader at the department of justice to jump on a grenade, to elect the president is severely and sorely misplaced. Our job is to follow the facts to whatever evidence. They lead us. So my cuiosity is what his job was. Im glad that he did that. Or that whitaker would try to get him to recuse himself, its just not good. And lili knows who runs the front skprofs exactly the people you would coauthor. The weekening of the wall is supposed to be around the Justice Department of all times. Talk to me about whether its in plain sight in your view. We talked about this so many times on the show, beginning with trump firing comey, asking comey to let the investigation into flynn go. Theyre countless examples of trump trying to influence or interject himself into different conversations. The piece that i wrote and it was speckly talking about trumps interactions with whitaker and his intents to. I think its an even more clearcut because there is simply no exploration for it. As we know, these storms have actually come. Also the Southern District has apparently continued investigating this even after Michael Cohen pled. Theres really nowhere to go beyond Michael Cohen unless theyre going to be looking at the Trump Organization and people very close to trump. He needs an inch of skmims. It just seems more clear in this series fd interactions. We talked to milt. I think its a really cool example here. What do you think it was like today for your former colleagues in that office you know so well . As i describe it, the Justice Departments manhattan Public Bureau to click on this New York Times story and read about their office in this story. Look, i cant speak for the of career professionals who im sure will. Taking that whether that is finding crimes or not. They will going to a point. There is the new. Bureau to click on this New York Times story and read about their office in this story. Look, i cant speak for the we talked about this so many times on the show, beginning with trump firing comey, asking comey to let the investigation into flynn go. Theyre countless examples of trump trying to influence or interject himself into different conversations. The piece that i wrote and it was speckly talking about trumps interactions with whitaker and his intents to. I think its an even more clearcut because there is simply no exploration for it. As we know, these storms have actually come. Also the Southern District has apparently continued investigating this even after Michael Cohen pled. Theres really nowhere to go beyond Michael Cohen unless theyre going to be looking at the Trump Organization and people very close to trump. His coal purpose. He needs an inch of skmims. It just seems more clear in this series fd interactions. We talked to milt. I think its a really cool example here. What do you think it was like today for your former colleagues in that office you know so well . As i describe it, the Justice Departments manhattan Public Bureau to click on this New York Times story and read about their office in this story. Look, i cant speak for the people who are there right now, obviously, but i can tell you that as an, i felt outrage, i said r disrespectful of these boundaries. He cant respect the world to let these investigations go on. Consciously it speaks to guilt. If i was working on these investigation, the more i thought trump, look, i dont know exactly that it seems to me he did the honorable thing and the right thing, and he left this investigation in the hands of career professionals who im sure will. Taking that whether that is finding crimes or not. They will going to a point. There is the new. Are you convinced to your satisfaction based on the fact that there are adults in the room to protect whats going on . I think so, brian. Let me tell you why im hedging a little bit. You dont remember the new Deputy Attorney general is oud to his apartment. Hell be paired with sensitive skin. He also would have confidence with mr. Rosen, so ill wait and see. In that office you know so well . As i describe it, the Justice Departments manhattan Public Bureau to click on this New York Times story and read about their office in this story. Look, i cant speak for the people who are there right now, obviously, but i can tell you that as an, i felt outrage, i said r disrespectful of these boundaries. He cant respect the world to let these investigations go on. Consciously it speaks to guilt. If i was working on these investigation, the more i thought trump, look, i dont know exactly that it seems to me he did the honorable thing and the right thing, and he left this investigation in the hands of career professionals who im sure will. Taking that whether that is finding crimes or not. They will going to a point. There is the new. Are you convinced to your satisfaction based on the fact that there are adults in the room to protect whats going on . I think so, brian. Let me tell you why im hedging a little bit. You dont remember the new Deputy Attorney general is oud to his apartment. Hell be paired with sensitive skin. He also would have confidence with mr. Rosen, so ill wait and see. Maybe we severe he is, i believe, a strong and good attorney general. That there are adults in the room to protect whats going on . I think so, brian. Let me tell you why im hedging a little bit. You dont remember the new Deputy Attorney general is oud to his apartment. Hell be paired with sensitive skin. He also would have confidence with mr. Rosen, so ill wait and see. Maybe we severe he is, i believe, a strong and good attorney general. Again, i dont share his politics but hes an institutionalist and well sort of hal enp. I think thats a good thing for that institution, not terribly bag. For a television show, the boardroom was a family. Along the way he ran a Family Company without an actual board of directors. He arrives on top of the. We are, jeremy, and youre getting the solutions