Trump and rnc chair woman, ronna mcdaniel, try to pressure to republican canvassers and michigan into not certifying the 2020 president ial election results. The paper reviewed recordings of trump and mcdaniel on phone calls with to local officials just days after the election. Nbc has not heard or verify the Audio Recordings. But its statements nbc spokespeople for trump and the rnc did not dispute them. This afternoon, michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson, so the chief suspect at the Election Officials were under pressure back in 2020. Theyre recording in the detroit i tyler the recording. It didnt surprise me, the content of which we were well aware that he was trying to pressure these local pointed officials to subvert their own duty, the legal duty under the law. We knew as it was happening, its really, when youre up against the president of the United States, the purported leader the free world, that we had the truth, the law, the will of the people on our side, its really harrowing and scary. You dont know ultimately, democracy is fragile, and that the more proof and evidence we have as the state shows, the stronger we feel going into 2024. The detroit news report also raises questions about what rnc term undermine bidens 2020 when. Remember, we heard her taped deposition to the january Six Committee during last summers hearings, to remind you, here is some of what she told them. When the president say when he collier . Essentially, he turned the call over to mr. Eastman, who proceeded to talk about the importance of the rnc helping the campaign gather these contingent electors in case any of the legal challenges that were ongoing change the result of any states. I think more helping them reach out and settle them. My understanding is the campaign to take the lead, we just were helping them in that draw. Oh baby, able to get this. Lets get smart with help of our lead panel on this friday night. Mark joseph joins us, Senior Writer covering courts, the law at slate. Susan page is here, washington burrow usa today. And catherine christian, former assistant District Attorney at the manhattan District Attorneys office, she is now an msnbc legal analyst and the first person i turn to, catherine, lets start by can you explain to us exactly what the Supreme Court decided today . The average person out there is taking this as a huge blow to jack smith . They shouldnt. In one sentence they just said, were not hearing the case now to be as simple as i can make a. Jack smith wanted them to leapfrog, job over the d. C. Circuit court of appeal and hear the case i. Because theyre gonna hear it anyway so his view was, Public Interest is very important, its a case that demands a Media Tension an immediate resolution. What he did not do, which he didnt talk about the peak element in the room, he wants this case tried before november 2024, because if donald trump becomes the nominee and he gets reelected, theyll be no case. His argument to expedite the Supreme Court expedited, i wont say it was weak, but he left out than money shot which is you need to do this because the election is happening. All the Supreme Court did was look at the Circuit Court of appeals which is expediting the appeal, and hear oral arguments on january 9th, and say, let them do it first. Its procedurally correct, it wouldve been unusual for them to leapfrog over the dc Circuit Court of appeals. Traditionally, its the District Court of appeals and then you seek the Supreme Court. Theyre just saying were gonna do the normal procedure and was one sentence, it was probably majority, you didnt see the scents. The dc Circuit Court of appeals has really a rocket docket, meaning very clear that theyre gonna expedite this case. The oral argument, emotions, it will be done quickly. Catherine, even if this was a big blow to jack smith, right now donald trump strongest offenses to delay. Does this all but guarantee that the march 4th date wont happen . Oh, its not happening. Its not happening on march 4th. Donald trump winds in that he gets to delay the trial. Now it doesnt mean that the trial isnt gonna happen before november 2024. If the d. C. Circuit court issues their opinion and the Supreme Court assuming donald trump loses, or even if the special counsels, is theyll seek Supreme Court is capable of deciding a case fast when they want to. Will it happen in march . I dont see that happening. But it might happen in may, it may happen in june, im talking about the trial. Market, the memory of what happened after bush v. Gore have influenced this decision . Absolutely. I think that the justices across the board want to stay away from this case for as long as possible. They do not want to be seen as getting involved in the 2024 election. In part because of course donald trump appointed three of them, angel blended appointed one, and all of them have memories of how bush be gore tarnished the court. Even though a lot of conservatives trying to defend the decision, i think its widely recognized as the Supreme Courts most aggressive intervention in a president ial election in the United States history. And even for the conservatives, even for those like Justice Alito are justice thomas, who probably want to see donald trump when, they dont want to see that victory come with a footnote like george w. Bush has in 2000. This is by the way the Supreme Court played a key role here. The justices are being cautious, i agree with catherine, the caution is warranted, i agree that it makes sense for them to wait since the d. C. Circuit is moving quickly. I will just add, there is a double standard here when donald trump was president he ran to the Supreme Court all the time and asked for Special Excel Rated decisions. Leapfrogging over the court of appeal, a conservative majority gave him that again and again. We saw clear pattern of the conservative justices saying, sure, you can skip ahead, skipped the line, will give you everything you want rather than have to wait. Today donald trump is a criminal defendant, jack smiths prosecuting im, jacques but says, hey, lets leap frog the court of appeals as well, the Supreme Court says, no, it seems like trump got a bit of a special favored from the conservative majority that jack smith isnt getting today. That does not mean that it will be impossible to hold a criminal trial sometime this spring in the january 6th case. Susan, every single day there is more legal news, hard for the American People to follow into the courts make a final decision on these cases in Donald Trumps fate, Public Opinion say the same on all of it and him . I dont think they necessarily as not much effect on his standing in the republican primary. In fact it solidified his support among republicans. It doesnt mean nothing ever changes, for one, thing if he does win the republican nomination as we expect, at one point hell face a general election electorate which is different than the republican primary. For those democratic and independent minded voters, these legal cases might well make a difference especially if you move from being indicted to being convicted. Its possible that that has a bigger impact on americans, americans who may have liked what they saw during the First Administration but are tired of the legal ramifications, the controversy, the chaos. Susan, what is all this mean for the 2024 Campaign Calendar . First of all, the 2020 election never seems to and, for working on the 2024 calendar and were dealing with these court cases from 2020. Its this parallel calendar and they collide, were gonna go to the iowa caucus and about three weeks, the New Hampshire primary, south carolina, were gonna be off to the races in choosing delegates. Meanwhile, were gonna have all these court cases, multiple Court Cases Involving the former president of the United States. Hes gonna have to show up for them. Its just mindblowing and if its hard for americans to get their head around. Imagine trying to beat Donald Trumps scheduler this year. Imagine trying to be anything this year. Mark, as catherine said, this loss is not a huge blow for jack smith because it was always a long shot. Bubble team trump and his allies use this to paint a weaker picture of jack smith and try to say that all hes Charging Trump with is . They absolutely well. Trumps team has painted smith as a kind of partisan fanatic. Im sure trump will seize upon this to say that even the Supreme Court with trump claims is rigged and biased against him, even the Supreme Court wouldnt let jack smith expedite this case. Clearly, hes way out ahead of where he has baseless claims everywhere. I think the Talking Point is likely to grow stale on the shelves pretty quickly. The d. C. Circuit panel that this case was assigned to has a strong liberal majority. I think that panels can issue a decision very quickly against trump, allowing the tribal to move forward. I think that eventually when the Supreme Court takes this case it will rule against trump. The idea that he has this absolute immunity from prosecution for anything that he did during his presidency, it has no basis in precedent, or the constitution. Its just this continued process where trump will seize upon anything that people might not fully understand. The Court Procedures complicate, spending minutes to explain it, he can seize on that and claimed falsely that todays order from the Supreme Court was proof that hes right and jack smith is wrong. And his most avid defenders will continue to novel that out. Catherine, new topic, we need to talk about this call with trump, ronna mcdaniel, and canvassers and michigan. Trumps reported calls, how do you think this helps prosecutors whether its jack smith or fani willis . This is huge news. Its a gift, its a gift of great evidence against donald trump. First of all, it shows his pattern of conduct, remember the phone call to the georgia secretary of state, the georgia governor, he put pressure on mike pence, it shows also his intent, a conscious objective to close the result. The Special Counsel Election Interference indictment actually dedicates three pages to michigan. It details how donald trump and coconspirator number one, rudy giuliani, went, rudy went to michigan and in the oval office the president was trying to convince the michigan speaker of house and the Majority Leader that there was Election Fraud into troy. Im sure when jack smith and his staff heard about these recordings, if their authentic, they were just salivating. Theyre saying, okay, this helps us approval we said about michigan, it will help us prove all of the other charges that we have, the conspiracy to defraud the United States, the conspiracy against rights. This is gonna be completely admissible if its authentic, its the defended speaking, and as i said it also proves his knowledge. Youre telling these canvassers, dont worry, well get you lawyers, why do you need lawyers, because they know what theyre asking them to do. This is very damaging evidence against donald trump. And its also good evidence for d. A. Willis to. She also has a recall election interference case. Stunning that someone in that room knew that it was wrong enough or criminal enough that they needed to record the president of the United States. Susan, i want you to weigh in on this, we talk about a lot here. How important this story is. Catherine says that gift jack smith, but its an imported Public Service and hugely Important Information to the American People. And here we have a local News Outlet Reporting at. Over the last 20 years weve seen local news get demolished in this country, it happens every day, every week, every month, how important is it for us to have news outlets like the detroit news getting us stories. Like this that the American People need to hear . Its so important, local news has been so embattled by the Business Model over the past decade or so that weve lost hundreds of local newspapers. We know that when there are, reporters around doing reporting, you dont find out that theres whistleblower things that you dont find out. Theres no place for someone whos been wrong to go, someone whos wrongfully imprisoned, its harder for them to find someone who will listen to them. And to cover state legislators, State Legislatures are often places that are very ripe for investigative reporting. And if you dont have correspondents they have no one to dig that out. Its an example, Kudos To The Detroit News and the reporter for finding this. Its very important piece of reporting not that easy to do. It looks totally waterproof in that nobody involved is disputing their account of what happened. Its a reminder to anyone out there if youre looking for a lastminute christmas gift, get a friend or Family Member a subscription to detroit news, any local news, wherever you live, around the country, perfect stocking stuffer. Mark, lets talk about trumps take here. His campaign is claiming that this was all about ensuring Election Integrity . How can the use this argument, come on . This is the basis of their argument in the january six cases wall. They are trying to claim that everything donald trump did after the 2020 election was part of his president ial duty to ensure that all the laws of the nation at war faithfully executed including apparently state level election laws, right down to the board of canvassers. This is the theory that he claims insulates him from all manner of criminal liability. Its a theory that his associates have adopted in other cases. For instance, mark meadows argued this exact point in the fani willis georgia r. I. C. O. Called reporter to say, i was helping President Trump combat fraud. It was part of my duty as his Chief Of Staff. But just this week the 11th Circuit Court of appeals of conservative panel of judges, a conservative judge, william pryor, shot down the theory quite harshly. He said, absolutely not, the president and his Chief Of Staff have no right to be interfering with this level of election administration. These actions were not related to anyones official duties in the executive branch, and these Claims Cannot insulate you from liability. I think that goes for mark meadows, itll go for donald trump as well. This is a desperate attempt to use his pr machine to build up support for his legal argument. I dont think either of them landed carrying water. Trump does have quite the pr machine. Susan, house ronna mcdaniel, how will your pr work around this, at best this is not a good look . No, thats right. No republican carl rogue said today that he thought she could be in trouble because the Tape Recording if the appearance that she is offering these canvassing officials Legal Services an exchange for their failure to certify the. That can get around to legal problems. The optics, obviously, are not great to, be Calling County officials, the wayne county commissioner, the rnc chairman and the president of the United States call you to urge you to do something that sounds fishy. This is really, this call todays shocking and also in some ways not that surprising. All right, thank you all for starting us off tonight. We were not ready for a big newsday but, we certainly got one. Marc, susan, kathryn, great to see you all. Before we go to break any to share Breaking News with you from a colorado jury. Two paramedics there have been found guilty of Criminally Negligent Homicide in the death of elijah mcclain. If you remember he was a 23yearold an armed a black man. In 2019, mcclain died after he was subdued by police and injected with ketamine. And autopsy report listed mcclains cause of death as complications of Ketamine Administration following forcible restraint. Three of the Police Officers involved already face trial. One was found guilty of Criminally Negligent Homicide and assault. The other two were a