Those are some of the Big Questions after trumps fixer attorney appearing in new york and a fight over the records and electronics seized in the famous fbi raid in his home in april and his office. They say they have turned over 3. 7 million items that might be reviewed that would not get into court they are either highly personal or attorneyclient. There are two black ber ris and contents of a shreder. The clock is ticking, cohens lawyers have to finish going through remaining documents by june 15th. If they dont finish by then, another team of prosecutors will do it live for them the other news, from Stormy Daniels attorney Michael Avenotti is live on set on the beat. He revealed a reporter called him last week about a recording of a phone call between Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels attorney, not denying these tapes exist but says they have not been leaking anything. Just like the nixon tapes years ago, we now have what i will refer to the trump tapes. Mr. Ryan admitted that there are audio recordings that Michael Cohen was taking for years. Not only do they exist, but they are under lock and key and some of them relate to my client and her Attorney Client privilege commune cakes. Avenotti saying he believes trump. Was recorded. Now, lets be clear the evidence coming out of todays proceeding does not speak exactly to that. Avenotti calling on cohen to go ahead and release the recordings. People can make their own determinations as to their importance relating to the president and what he knew and when he knew it and what he did as it relates to conspireing with Michael Cohen to commit one or more potential crimes. Much to discuss. I am joined by a former counsel of new york city and a former assistant fbi director and as mentioned, mr. Avenotti will speak to us in a moment. By mia, this is at least intriguing. Its very intriguing. Look, at the end of the day, we know that this case is going to proceed and its going to proceed of pace. Because judge wood has said two weeks, if you dont get through it, Michael Cohen attorneys were going to send it over to the prosecutors. That i have to go through those documents in order to proceed with the case. The fact na we have shredded documents that they are trying to piece back together suggests that, well, it raises the question, why are there shredded documents . Why are there shredded documents is a big one. If you bring up a shreder, it gets more interesting. It does. If are you in a shreder, your life is taking a turn. The feds were citing their assertions, thats what they are. They havent been proven in court. Part of the probable cause they went in on cohen in the first place. They said look, absent a search warrant, these very records could have been completed without recourse for Law Enforcement. You see the redaxs suggesting in that filing that there were things going on that made the feds move because they thought there was either destruction or about to be destruction. Yes, unless you think its one of those crazy coincidences that you get if life sometimes that these documents happen to be shredded that day. You know what i was thinking . Reading all these stories today, kimmel wood, the judge in this case must feel like she lost the bet to get involved in the middle of Something Like this. Which is like the grifters meets usual suspects, meets the gang that couldnt shoot straight. But i was asking mia this before we come on tonight. Does that make den face in suspect . Yeah. Im just trying to follow the movie right there. No, i can explain it to you. But what is, what is the worst thing for the president of the United States in these potentially in these shredded documents. Are you talking about no, i was saying. I have, you know, all right. Money laundering. Thats a softball pitch, you know, thrown to babe ruth. Go ahead. Using a baseball the worst thing. Well, i mean, look, hypothetically speaking, i mean these documents and these recordings could have the president of the United States police it with Michael Cohen as it relates to potential serious federal criminal acts relating to Money Laundering or itself untoward criminal conduct. I mean, if hypothetically speaking, you are asking whats possible . Thats possible, hypothetically. Do you have a reason thats more than possible . I dont have a reason to believe that that in particular is more than possible. But i have every reason to believe, ari, that these recordings that were seized by the fbi, which Michael Cohen and his attorneys have a copy of, include recordings between Michael Cohen and the president of the United States as well as others. Its never a good idea to be recording conversations period, especially if you are an attorney, especially if you are dealing with sensitive information. Its really not a good idea if are you going to do that, to record them with people na that later become the president of the occupation. Its especially a bad idea to keep those recordings in your office or hotel or hotel room and have them seized by the fbi. I, yeah, but why is the recording phone conversations . Why . I mean, this is where you start to get into is there some kind of criminal enterprise . Does he need some kind of lever annual over people . Because lawyers typically do not need a recorded phone conversation record to zealously represent their clients. Thats a big part. Im going to press you a little more on the underlying evidence. Just at the hypothetical level, i want to bring if frank. Mia makes a point that is familiar to lawyers, if anything lawyers often do the opposite when theyre dealing with sensitive information. Theyll say, lets not record too much. Lets have a broad discussion without any memorialization. Later well write a vague memo is often the practice that refers to it. This seems to be different and, frank, from your veinvestigativ the fbi practice, what does that do for them . Array, if you practice true law you put down exactly as little as possible. True law. You sound like Michael Cohen is doing something other than true law. Go ahead. Ill get to that in a second. That has to do with his time he needs to determine what is privileged and what is not. Which i think a bunch of horse manure. If you are practicing true law, you have things marked and you have a Software Program in the document itself and you got your universe of documents to work with. Lets move on to more interesting topics, which is the shreder and the recording calls. With regard to the recorded calls, a couple of things. One is im fascinated by how this might impact trumps decision to sit down with muler or not. Up until now trump says i dont use emails, im sitting pretty, nothing is documented. Now he has to scratch his head and say i wonder how much was being recorded. I dont know how much mueller has regarding my voice. What the fbi can analyze with voice signature and that may have him thinking twice. With regard to the shreder. Lets also not just isolate the possibility that the fbi grabbed shredded material during the raid, but lets expand that to the possibility that the fbi seized discarded shredded trash once it left the office space and for how long, we dont know. We dont know the true volume of the shredded material. But once its discarded, there is no possession of it lawfully by cohen and if he went cheap on his purchase of a shreder. Hes going to regret it. Ba us the fbi can absolutely put it back together. I dont know if were on the news right now or deep in a home depot sales pitch about what you need the best shreder possible. But i take your point that if the material is not really, really gone, sometimes they get it back. Michael, i want to now turn into the other piece of this which is you went out on the courthouse steps as you have done before. You said things that got a lot of people interested. You are calling the trump tapes. That is very interesting. It is very exciting. But you, in fact, dont know whether or not donald trump is or isnt on any of these tapes yet . I know for a fact donald trump is on one of these recordings. How do you know that . Im not getting into details i know that. Would you say that in court . Absolutely. So you are saying as a matter of fact you know at least on one occasion she on the tape . Yes. You know that because youve heard that tape . Im not going to get into how. Do you know that or think that because someone told you that . Let me answerer your question. On at least one of these recordings donald trump is on one of the recordings at least one of them. I know that for a fact. I stand behind it. Few look at my track record over the last almost three months, its impeccable relating to would you describe that as something have you personal knowledge of. Yes. Let me read to you what they read in court. That would advance this story, because there is a guessing game about whether donald trump, himself, is on the tapes. Are you going to read to me mr. Ryans comments . Yes. Because i think theyre important. Good. See you get enough lawyers around a table and they know what the other lawyer is doing. Yes, thats what im going to read the audiotapes we have if any pertain to him are under lock and key and controlled ound under my law firm and potus, i am unaware of any release of an audio file of this kind. Your response to that. There is no question these audio tapes exist they are under lock and key, according to mr. Ryan has stated. Now its important that we clarify that there are at least two copies of these recordings. There is the recording under lock and key at mr. Ryans office evidently pursuant to his statement and the government has a copy of these recordings when they were seized by way of the fbi raids. So there is no question these recordings exist. They ought to be released. We are especially disturbed by the fact that ev dentally my clients former counsel had communications with Michael Cohen during which they discussed Attorney Client privileged information that my client had disclosed to her attorney who then passed it to Michael Cohen who then recorded it and kept it. Thats very pont. Lets slow down so people could grasp what you are saying. Thats very important. In more than one case, the allegations, unproven, but allegations that mr. Cohen basically worked with this other lawyer, you are referring to mr. Davidson, your predecessor, in a manner that might have been adverse to his clients interests in order to help donald trump. Are you now saying you believe there is smoking gun tape evidence of that . Absolutely. I mean, this was the call i received from the reporter last week. I was minding my own business in california. It was early in the morning. As you do. Not exactly. You are known for, you mind your own business. Go along to go along with. Thats funny, i might use that again without attribution. I get a call from a reporter that asks me to comments on a recorded conversation the reporter has heard between mr. Davidson and mr. Cohen discussing my client and Attorney Client privileged information. Now you can imagine as someone who is learned in the law my shock upon hearing this, that this recording would exist, a, and that her former counsel would be disclosing Attorney Client information too his known adversary mr. Cohen, b a very disturbing set of events. We filed the document with the court. We asked the court to inquire about it. During todays hearing, this is how we got mr. Ryan to make thissed a mission in open court, that, a, these courts exist. B, theyre under lock and key. Our next position is we will be demanding tomorrow they be turned over to us immediately, all recordings relating to my clients, especially those discussing Attorney Client privilege information. They should not be in the possession of mr. Ryan. They should not be in possession of mr. Cohen. We want them so we can determine what was said and what to do with them period. You just made an assertion on Live National tv. You are staking your credibility donald trump is, indeed, on a recorded calm. If you are on one, that opens the idea you may be on more than one the difference between zero and one is far greater than the difference between one and 20. If thats the case, do you believe that donald trump already knew that or he is learning that tonight as you break this news . No, i think he already knows that. If im wrong, let mr. Ryan or cohen come on your show or any other show and state unequivocally there never was and is not currently a tape of mr. Trump and mr. Cohen. Mia, what do you make of that . Again if this assertion is true, mr. Avenotti says he can back it up, mr. Trump was knowing this and was going through those calls, which might make him more careful or he found that after the fact or tonight as this makes news, because its news worthy, what is your view of Donald Trumps likely mental state about this . I am assuming she going through the roof. Im sure hes not taking this well. I, frankly, either scenario. If he didnt know, of course, hes delaware, if hes not taking it well, that Jeff Sessions didnt recuse himself, that he spent months trying to get Jeff Sessions to unrecuse himself, if hes beside himself about roseanne barr, i mean, lets face it, this is a lot more central to his personal scombs than roseanne bar, these got to be losing his mind. As you watch the cohen saga play out, somehow the world convinced him the world was a mark waiting for him to play it. That he had been conditioned to believe, its like they said ten stages of dunkenness and they can be drunk with power. Nine is invisible. Ten is bulletproof. This guy started to think he was invisible and bullet proof. Now. Thats why he bot the cheaper shreder, you think . I was going to ask michael what kind he had. A cross cut shreder, not a strip sheder. You cant be cheap when it comes to your shreder. Theyre actually not that expensive, to be honest. Ryan said he never seen a lawyer behave the way you behaved. He is obviously unfamiliar with Rudy Guilianis work. Yeah. Frank, before we go, i actually want to play, you were talking about the attitude here. We have footage of Michael Cohen interesting in this context, with i is talking about the way donald trump deals with people and their connection. Take a listen to this, frank. If you know anybody in the Trump Organization that spends any amount of time with him like i do, we all feel the same way about hes more to us than just a boss. Hes a mentor, hes a sage, hes like family. And when you have a problem, mr. Trump feels like he has a problem. Frank, how does that apply today and affect how cohen is dealing with all this pressure . Yeah, two things come up when i hear that. First, its so reminiscent of listening to la costa nostra fa wiretaps, we are like family. We are family the other thing is reality at some point you have to choose between your actual family and your like family and at some point when cohen sees the federal sentencing guidelines, what he is criminally exposed to, i believe he will choose his real family over his like family and i think hes going to do the right thing. Its a question of how long that will take. Very interesting for you to put it in that per spec. Frank, thank you. Make him avenotti stays, also later something mia mentioned, donald trump trying to get sessions to unrecuse from the probe, bob mueller is investigating that. I am going to dig into trumps conspiracy theories on russia and why some have been debunked and a strategy response to the rosanne racism scandal. Why does donald trump think he gets an apology . Plus, trolling in the trump era, how it works and how to stop it. Im im ari melber. You with rough the beat. Or pa. What can i say . Control suits me. Go national. 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On set with me is Michael Avenotti, one of the things that happened in court i want to play is a reference to your public advocacy, the judge referring to things youve said like this. Michael cohen has zero credibility. Were going to prove it. This is a man who has a history of thuggish behavior. There is no question in my mind that Michael Cohen, a, is going to be indicted within the next three months. Hes not a registered lobbyist. He hasnt made required disclosures related to lobbying activities. We dont know where this is, it doesnt mel right. Today the judge said you have the right to make those statements as most americans does, if you were more formally involved in this case, you would not be able to speak of mr. Cohens guilt. Thats what she said. I heard what she said. Let me say this, ari, i listened carefully and kauchd carefully, everything i said can be backed up and is proven to be truchl nothing has been proven on the false. But look, ari, this isnt a publicity tour. Let me tell you what it is, its a truth tour. Its going to continue. Its going to continues today, next week and next month. Because we are going to get to the bottom of what happened here. We are going to conti