Into our newsroom. I want to you hear with your ears this audio unearthed of whitaker denying the russians interfered with the u. S. Election. The left has tried to sew this theory that essentially russians interfered with the u. S. Election, which has been proven false. They did not have any impact in the election and that has been very clear from the obama administration. What you heard there sounds a lot more like a political partisan than a nonpartisan prosecutor who would be dealing with a probe who has determined the russians did interfere and determined whether they had american help. Sometimes on this show we reach for classic pros to understand whats happening all around us. Tonight we turn to a saying often attributed to oscar wilde, a true friend establishes you in the front. Not the back. That is one what i to look at whitaker. He was Jeff Sessions righthand man and theyd meet trump at the white house together, whitaker would smile knowingly to trump as he complained about mueller according to new reporting in the Washington Post. Now this looks like a prelude to whitaker nabbing his boss job. He was the last person to shake Jeff Sessions hand as he departed the doj, stabbing him in the front. Taking over his job. The other breaking news is whitaker was probably prejudgeing the announcement of the Mueller Probe the truth is there was quote no collusion between trump and russia. Again, something that is under open investigation. It could be true that there was no collusion. In fact, bob mueller might find that for everyone. But he could find something else. The question is whether this is the right man to oversee that given what he said. I can tell you critics say tonight it is those kind of comments that make whitaker unfit to oversee a probe. Democrats warn they will use their new power to investigate no matter what this investigation tries. It is a break the glass moment and im hoping that all of my colleagues will rise to the occasion. We will fill in the gaps of the Russian Investigation. We will conduct all the investigations that the republicans were unwilling to conduct. We will make sure we hold donald trump and his administration accountable. Today Top Democrats leaning on the power that will get if january. They are demanding all materials relating to the firing of jeff session, documents, memos they can use in their own probe investigation. Meanwhile, rod rosen stestein i back at the white house. Until yesterday, rosenstein was the only thing between mueller and trump because the now departed attorney general did this. I have now decided to recuse myself from any existing or future investigations of any matter relating in anyway to the campaigns for president of the United States. That was march 2017 which ban the the rosenstein era for this probe. He was the one approving muellers big moves. He announced the indictments. Today were on the first full day of what is the whitaker era. He would step out, not rosenstein, thats a striking contrast, given how the two men have spoken about the fundament also of this russia probe. The department of justice is not going to be extorted. Were going to do whats required by the rule of law. I think what ultimately the president will start doing is putting pressure on Rod Rosenstein who is in charge of this investigation. The indictment alleges the russian conspirators want to promote discord in the United States and undermine Public Confidence in democracy. We must not allow them to succeed. I can see a scenario where Jeff Sessions is replaced with a recess appointment and that attorney general doesnt fire bob mueller but he just reduces the budget so low that his investigation grinds to an almost a halt. Grind the investigation to a halt. That is the new acting attorney general. What you are looking at right now are live pictures we are getting in right now 6 05 on the east coast in times square. When people talk about what the public would do if this turns into a weighted kneecap mueller, if this turns into a constitutional crisis, many experts say were not there quite yet. But we are there with people in the streets, what look to us based on our reporting what you can see as peaceful marches. These are a part of a plan for marches around the country to quote unquote protect mueller. Can you see from our skycam there just how far back they go. In new york city, you always have a mix of people who are Walking Around and get caught up in a march to the people who are planning the march. What you are looking at in this live shot in times square, new york, obviously, all the way far out in that packed skylean is people marching right now to protect mueller. Weve got a lot in our show as i mentioned. Water gate special prosecutor nick acker ann, mia wiley, rnc chairman michael steel. He knows his way around a big march. Oh, yeah. It is interesting, Nick Ackerman, to see that out in the streets. People there want to protect mueller. They dont say at this hour, were not reporting, any action from whitaker yet. But what do you think is incumbent on the Justice Department and these professionals who are in the Justice Department who have a new boss when you see someone who has effectively said in public there is nothing left to do in this probe. If there was no collusion, thats unknown. First of all, you got somebody who should absolutely recuse himself from having anything to do with this investigation. He has taken a very hard stance on what he believes this investigation is about. If there is anybody thats got bias and already has formed an opinion before hes even become attorney general, he has no business having anything to do with this investigation. You need to have an attorney general who is out there that is fair and impar recall and will weigh the evidence and look at whatever the evidence turns out to be as a result of this investigation. I mean you wouldnt even put this guy on a jury, if he came in for the manafort jury pool and the government would have kicked him off in two seconds. Nick ackerman saying he doesnt pass a jury standard, which as Many Americans will know is a lower standard than being acting attorney general. We will go back to some of these street shots when we have them, so viewers understand we are talking about the controversy around the attorney general and seeking some of these marches in new york and elsewhere. Mia, your view. I agree with nick. I think one of the things thats so disturbing about what Matthew Whitaker has said is, he made statements about whether or not there was the commission of a crime without access to all the evidence and information that bob mueller has. So youre pre judging an investigation in the absence of having all the facts. He should be going directly to the office of ethics and asking whether or not he should recuse himself, but i agree with nick, its very hard to imagine he shouldnt. He also has a relationship with sam clovis who is essentially someone who has been talking to the mueller investigation. On the comments, do you see anything directly disqualifying from his public statements or could he argue, i was providing an analysis on the law, something both of you are doing. If you go back into government service, you both serve. You say now i have a new obligation. Heres the point, its the ethics code, its the appearance of impropriety. Its not whether, in fact. You have a direct influence, whether it goes to a campaign that essentially prevailed and has and the president has is not the president of the United States the question becomes, does it create the appearance that any of the decisions that whitaker would make are being made for inappropriate reasons . Its actually important to our system that we not have the appearance of the fox guarden the henhouse. Michael steel, id say Nick Ackerman puts it the about a ten saying this guy shouldnt be on the jury, mia im hearing are about an 8. Where are you . Im about a 9. I think for the integrity of the very Justice Department that hes now in charge of, with these types of questions and the body of evidence, the video as well as audio evidence of his views and his positions and, yes, i get the story, this is when he was a private citizen, he was opining as an analyst a political pundittype situation. Given the sensitivities of this. Given the already vexing nature of this, you got people on the streets as you are showing, ari, i think the important thing is to if nothing else, say, you know what, i dont need to touch this particular aspect of what the Justice Department are doing. There are other things to make sure the institution focuses smoothly. I will focus on that. Everybody will be watching every little scintilla he puts forth relating to this hearing, this process by mueller. And i dont know if he can withstand the scrutiny long term let alone short term. Michael, listen to whitaker with what kicked this off, Jeff Sessions being too close to oversee it. The reason he recuse himself is not because there is anything for him to hide as it relates to the Trump Campaign and ties to russia. As a lawyer, if there is an appearance e experience of impr soon as the outrage from the left occurred. He knew as a lawyer that was an appearance of impropriety. People are suggesting, its a conflict, he has to recuse. Zplu know what whitaker sound like right there, michael . Like mia. Mia wiley. He made her point. He literally made her point. So if beyond Everything Else that the broadcasts are playing, play that sound byte over and over and over again, because it go es to the core of the argument that applied to jeff session and now applies to him. You know what we will do, mia . We will do, michael is using an old legal dj trick. Suppose you see that as a jamaican dance hall, you say, hit it again. Hit it again, baby. We will rerack that sound of mr. Whitaker because it is actually as you just said and mia intuitive before we heard it, and were getting all this sound. Everyone is going through his archive, his record. He was talking about the appearance of impropriety. You have a president here who said what he wanted would be someone who would not be protected. That is an elicit goal in the first place. Lets listen again to rerack to whitaker the new acting attorney general on why one should recuse. The reason he recuse himself is not because there is anything for him to hide. As it relates to the Trump Campaigns and ties to russia. As a lawyer if there is an appearance of impropriety, as soon as the outrage from the left occurred, he knew as a lawyer that that is an appearance of impropriety, because there are people suggesting he did something wrong, its a conflict, he has to recuse. And what Matt Whitaker knows because its been public is that many people in the public believe hes only in the position to interfere with Robert Muellers investigation. That appearance, whether or not its true, that appearance in and of itself is a significant impediment to him serving in that role and the idea that we would be as a public looking at every little decision he makes because of the fear that he would not be faking decisions independently of whether or not he was protecting donald trump personally, which is not the job of the u. S. Attorney. That in and of itself is so outlandish that he would serve without recusing from that. I dont even know what to say about that for that reason. And he. Has made the argument. I dont think its the appearance. Its impropriety, period. He should not be deciding anything to do with this Russian Investigation after having made the statements that he would cut out the money, hed cut out the funding. He thought the whole thing was bogus. That there was no conspiracy between the russian government and the Trump Campaign. I mean, we know exactly what donald trump did. He the id the same thing he did in picking kavanaugh to be on the supreme court. He look for somebody that would basically be a get out of jail card free. Now hes got two cards out there. Kavanaugh and this new acting attorney general and that is just improper. Its not even the appearance. Its improper. Two card in the deck. It raises the question, what happens when are you holding two aces and bob mueller is holding what . We dont know. We dont know what hes holding. Im going to turn to briefly, michael. I was probably saying hes holding two jokers. Thats another day. Jokers wild, right . I dont know what that means, dont tweet me. Tweet me if you want. Thank you very much. I turn now to another special guest we were telling you tonight. When Rod Rosenstein appointed mueller, the investigation into the election had been up and running. But when it first began. This was back before the election, of course, in the summer of 2016 and many different people were in charge then. Loretta lynch was attorney general, james comey running the fbi, Chuck Schumer oversight, deputy mccabe, fbi director. All the agents reported up to the Justice Department where there was a key official, a former federal prosecutor who led the Counterintelligence Division dating back to 2014. He was on the job until this football. Until that time he helped oversee two of the most significant investigations that youve certainly heard about the clinton email probe and the investigation into russian interference in the 2016 election up until mueller was named special counsel. So were talking about someone with extraordinary insights into everything that happens inside the powder keg of the doj, especially right now. I am pleased to say david lough lynn jones me right here on the beat. Good to joan you, ari. Let me play the sound the viewers are playing for the first time, which is trump picked someone to be acting attorney general who said russian interference did not even occur. What is your reaction to that . Is he wrong and does that affect his ability to oversee this probe . Well, i associate myself with the views that your previous guest at a minimum there is a horrible appearance here that in and of itself should cause mr. Whitaker to request an ethics opinion, to tee up the process for obtaining an ethics opinion to assess he has an appearance that the disabling and as to which he should recuse himself. As a practical matter, we all know thats not going to happen the reason he was happened picked on this job, unmistakably he gave an opinion to the president under no circumstances would we have a recusing of himself. We have an ethics war with the ethics officials undertake analysis on whether the acting ag should recuse. He refuses to submit to that opinion. Twa are you saying number one the normal process is to request it. That what happened with sessions. He got the advice to step aside and did. Number two, you are saying if this person doesnt recuse, there is something important to back it up. Donald trump told people, whitaker is loyal and would not have recuse himself from the investigation, according to multiple people in the Washington Post today. You are say figure that doesnt happen, there could still be the ethics effort to push this up. How would they do that and would that be good for the probe and good for the country i guess . Well, its possible that ethics officials within the department and the ethics process is centered in the Deputy Attorney generals office, Rod Rosensteins office, they could initiate some process even if whether whitaker did not request it. That would be numpblt usually its the individual, himself, that would request it pr acknowledgment which es in the 81 take of that analysis. That doesnt seem to be in the card right now. So its un there is no reason to believe he will recuse himself. We dont know what role mr. R s mr. Rosenstein will have in the investigation. Thats something to watch closely and carefully. Look the department of Justice Needs to enjoy Public Confidence in its impartiality in its integrity and unless. Nowhere is that more essential in an investigation as sensitive and high profile as this, Public Confidence needs to be at its ze knit in the departments handling of this investigation. There is no way we can get to that point with mr. Whitaker in the position hes now been given. Hmm. Thats strong words coming from you. Finally, briefly, if mueller moves forward, the question of indictments, would he need whitakers ascent . He will be reporting to whit kerr. Under the regs that apply, he will have to socialize with the department of justice in a substantial decisions pr acknowledgmentles he wants to take. So if there is charging digs he wants to make that he hasnt communicated to the department, that will have to go to whitaker. If there are litigation decision to condition test through the courts,ests to avoid contempt citation like mr. Stones associate, that will have to be socialized with the department of justice. When a report is transmitted to the department, how is that going to be resolved . Who will decide whether the report whole or in part goes to congress or is made public in whole or in part. All those things we cared critically about. Now all roads point to mr. Whitaker and how he will handle that. You laid it out. With your extraordinary experience, i appreciate you giving us some insights on the beat. Thank you. Good to be with you. Coming up, we turn to congressman jerry nadler, he would be the chairman of the Judiciary Committee. Later my report on the midterms. The fact that there is a growing blue wave and what it means for the trump era. Later, my interview with one of the power brokers in washington, john podesta subpoenas all of the above. Im ari melber. You are wa