Breaking his silence. Actually, a year ago today i hes going to speak with us for the First Time Since mueller had contact with him. Named him as such in stones and he knew i was doing your indictment. I also am thrilled to tell you show for the second time. That Kirsten Gillibrand will be lets end with a couple here live. Bottom lines. Her first time on the beat as bottom line number one, why did a candidate. She just released her tax returns and said President Trump should do the same. Muellers investigators care so we begin with a new and key much about what roger stone lied piece of information about the about . Listen, i really dont know. Still secret Mueller Report. And it has new context for you dont know . I dont know why. Attorney general barrs ill be honest with you. Selective quotes from the report i dont know is randy and his fourpage letter. Thats not all they talked to we now know this report runs me about. I dont know was a fine over 300 pages. And thats not counting the answer. Bottom line number two. Bottom line number two, based on appendix. So barr took four partial everything thats happened, do sentences from 300 pages. You believe stone is likely to now we know that for some people the letter has shaped an idea be convicted of obstruction and about what mueller may have will he get a pardon . Found. But it never released what i dont want to talk about that. Im not even thinking about mueller actually found. And the 300page count does shed that. Remember, i had a father that did ten years in prison before i some light on how unusual barrs was born, all right . Thats something to be if you dont want to talk approach has been. Consider as we reported as soon about it, thats a short answer. As sunday night that barr was do you think roger stone is sharing other numbers like the counting on a pardon . Number of subpoenas, witnesses, hell get a pardon. Hell definitely get a pardon. Warrants. He just didnt get around to sharing the number of pages. You know, hes been loyal to and that raises a question of this president for 37 years. I know the president is not whether thats celebriselective quotation and release was designed to shape outcomes to loyal, doesnt reciprocate make people think that barrs summary was the whole story. Loyalty. But he doesnt want roger stone why didnt barr just say sunday yapping out there. Randy kred co, person number night there were 500 warrants two. And also 300 pages. Thanks for coming back on the beat and coming here. Well, this is something that if taking the beat is what i did you watch some of our coverage you may have seen pointed out here. Just the beat. Still ahead, Jared Kushner immediately because we rely on experts who know a lot about was back testifying in another this stuff. Russia probe. John flannery was there sunday well explain. Night as this news broke, and he and then im going to get into said one of the most telling why the most important thing you heard about the Mueller Report things barr was withholding at today is its length, 300 pages that hour was the number of pages of the Mueller Report. And why some say the delay in what do you take from the first facts before we get beyond releasing that information calls that . I wonder why we dont even bill barrs oversight into question. Know the number of pages in the thats later tonight. Report. If barr would have told us today that mueller wrote a report that was fuft pages or as well as all the things you want to do. 200 or 500, that alone would be because when youre ready for what comes next, a great piece of context for the only direction is forward. These four. As ari melber pointed out in his coverage of this last night on this network, the attorney and relief from symptoms caused feel the clarity of nondrowsy claritin general didnt tell us something by over 200 indoor and outdoor allergens. As simple as how many pages like those from buddy. Because stuffed animals are clearly no substitute for real ones. There are in the report. Feel the clarity. And live claritin clear. Is it 50 . Is it 500 . Its at least 300 and were five days out of a lot of discussion, including some in the media that seem to play into barrs strategy there. Now what does this page count mean in terms of comparisons to other reports . We can show you. The iran contra and starr report were longer but in the ballpark. 445 pages from starr. A lot more than 4. Now today democrats are seizing on this. They are saying that, number one, they dont like hes missing a deadline they tried to set to turn over the full report by next week. Theyre telling him to hurry and telling him his take is not good enough. No thank you, mr. Attorney general. We do not need your interpretation. Show us the report and we can draw our own conclusions. We dont need you interpreting for us. It was condescending, it was arrogant and it wasnt the right thing to do. Im joined by jun kim who was acting attorney. He took over when Preet Bharara was fired by mr. Trump. An important story in and of itself. Were also joined by mara gay from the New York Times and gene rossi from the Eastern District of virginia which is the district that prosecuted paul manafort. My thanks to each of you for being here. Jun, thrilled to have you given your expertise and the fact your office was at least a subject of fact finding about potentiol obstruction by the president. We dont know the findings because we dont have them yet. What do you think of the way that mr. Barr has released information about this thus far . So i found out just like you did today that it was about over 300 pages. That actually does sound about right if you were to guess. He did disclose, you know, 2,800 subpoenas, 500 witness interviews. And if you just look at whats become public in the indictments that the special counsels office has brought, theres a lot of material there. And so the way it was summarized in four pages, its obviously difficult to summarize any document of that length and presumably the nuance with which the special counsels office tried to be tried to describe what they did. So my guess, its a little bit of a challenge to summarize anything like that. Would you give him an a . Its hard to grade that. Gene . Well see how much of it gets released. Gene . I give him a cplus. And thats being generous. On sunday night you showed my handwriting to the american public. And i said this was a tainted letter, and it also needed hand sanitizer. I want to stand by that characterization of the letter, and heres why. Cant you just tell us how many pages are in the letter . Because the amount of pages could give us some information on whether your 3 1 2page summary has some gravitas. And it doesnt. And i have to add this. I dont think its 300 pages. I think it could be well over 1,000 if you add attachments and attachments to the attachments. This is the biggest con ive seen in a long time, and im very disappointed with the department of justice. What we just heard from viewers is the range of reaction from people who know about this stuff. Prosecutor who even served briefly in the overlap with the Trump Administration. Another prosecutor close to applectic and an anchor who struggles with words. Not ideal for this job, but it happens. You as a journalist after days and days of people rushing to make conclusions beyond the available facts, what is your view . Listen, the New York Times editorial board, we have been creamily clear on this issue. The publics right to know here is paramount. And whatever of the report that can be released without putting sources at risk, confidential information at risk should be released to the public. The public has an overriding interest to know here to see the actual report. And the problem is that this is extremely sensitive and theres very little reason for the public at this point to feel that this process is unfolding without being politicized. And every time that, you know, you see questions about whether barr who is a trump appointee is withholding information from the public that he shouldnt be or is playing games with the information hes releasing, you know, this process becomes something that the American People have little less and less faith in. Lets drill down on that because i think it goes to the gap between our two prosecutors analysis tonight. But for you, mara, everyone understands how carefully and how reserved the handling of these findings were up until friday. So the care and the lack of outofcourt statements from mueller really persisted from may 2017 when it started until friday. Right. And since friday, if people are feeling like things have changed a little bit, thats the end of the mueller phase and were now in the trump doj barr phase and the question is whether the mueller phase will reignite when he speaks through the report and not what barr was doing, which was a press release. He has every lawful right to do it. Hes the attorney general of the United States, the boss of the counsel and that was his choice. Everyone has the right to react. Look at Speaker Pelosi today basically saying theres still evidence that we know that tells us that we should be skeptical of this barr phase. Take a look. Im deadly serious. If a Foreign Government comes to you and says they have information on your opponent, i say to any member of congress or person running for office, you take that right to the fbi. So for this report to say that there was no taccid cooperation, well, yeah, if they didnt bring the information to the fbi, they were delinquent. The speaker is absolutely right, but heres the problem. The central issue is, if you are barr or mueller or anyone in who works in any government in the United States of america from the white house to local government, you can follow every technical rule. You can meet every technical requirement. But that doesnt necessarily mean that you are fulfilling the role to which you have been named or appointed. And your purpose is actually to give the American People the information that they need and deserve. And congress has a right to review this information and decide what to do with it. The American People have a right to see as much as they can. And thats, you know, thats maybe not a legal right, but thats something that we need if democracy is to continue the way we want it to. Well, as the old saying goes, if its not a legal right, then i can be wrong. How does it go . I dont know. Obstruction without an underlying crime. Possible . Yes. And the letter notes that. There have been a number of cases of obstruction charges without an underlying crime. In fact, the special counsel mueller has charged that. There have been obstruction charges in this very investigation. Roger stone. Yeah. Martha stewart. But even mueller. Roger stone and i suppose flynn is more complicated because theres talk of other potential ones. But in the case of the stone case, it was only related to obstruction and he awaits trial. Its harder to make an obstruction case if you dont have the proof of the underlying offense because that goes to motive. State of mind of someone obstructing. Its harder to move. In your view as a prrks not speaking about specific people but in general, do you think that the law and prosecutors find it worse if obstruction is committed by people in Law Enforcement . By prosecutors or police or the president of the United States than just a random citizen . Yeah, its in many ways worse because, number one, they should know better. And number two, you want to make sure that the law applies equally to everyone and that theres a perception that no one is above the law. The Southern District of new york, there were a number of public corruption cases, and we felt just as strongly and sometimes more strongly if there was a Police Officer who was violating the law or corrections officers, people who have been entrusted with the publics power. They should be held at least to an equal standard as everyone else. And i dont know if you want to speak to this or not. Before i go to gene for a final thought. As you watch this play out and know mueller is detailed, potential obstruction by donald trump, we know from barr thats in evidence for whatever review, do you have reason to believe any of that includes anything in new york . I dont have i dont know whats included in there or not. Theres clearly parts of that investigation that have been referred to the Southern District of new york and a number of active investigations and cases in the Southern District of new york but i dont know what part of the obstruction investigation that they did. It was fascinating hearing your old boss as we know you came in for, mr. Bharara describing a kind of fixation that the newly elected president elect and then president had, donald trump, in engaging with him at sdny. Nowhere, just sdny. I appreciate your care and rigor with what youre willing to speak to. Gene rossi, i give you the final word. Your view of mr. Kims point that obstruction by people in government and Law Enforcement is can actually be worse. And what would it mean if a president had obstruction evidence against him without an underlying crime . If that was swept under the rug, does that send the wrong message to the president and to the country at large . Absolutely. And im italian so im always measured. I want to correct the record. But on a serious note, there is an underlying crime here, and i want to tell the viewers what i think is the underlying crime. There could be aiding and abetting of a conspiracy. Helping the russians conspire among themselves to interfere. But special counsel mueller didnt charge that. Well, the letter says, and this is important, that no one joined the conspiracy. You can aid and abet a conspiracy. Thats why we need to see the report. To answer your question, though, i indicted a state prosecutor in virginia for obstruction of justice. I indicted a special agent with the state department. It is a big deal when someone in Law Enforcement obstructs an investigation even if there is no underlying crime. So to answer your question, when the president of the United States obstructs an investigation, even argue theres a no crime, thats a huge deal. Well put. Put clearly. Gene, joon and mara, thanks to each of you. Appreciate it. We have a lot more including a live interview with Kirsten Gillibrand. The first contender to release her tax returns this year and says donald trump ought to do the same. Later my exclusive interview with muellers person number 2, speaking of obstruction. He was one of the people who is alleged to be the rationale for roger stones obstruction and were going to get into that. His first interview with that indictment. Later, why Jared Kushner was actually back giving secret testimony today in a russia probe. Im ari melber. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. 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To Crystal Clear hd video monitoring from anywhere. Gigfueled apps that exceed expectations. Comcast business. Beyond fast. Now turning to a leading lawmaker pressing for donald trump to finally come clean on his tax returns and saying she will lead on transparency. Democratic senator Kirsten Gillibrand of new york is a 2020 concontinuer and became the first president ial candidate this week to release her tax returns and calling on everyone to do the same. Heres her first msnbc interview since, of course, launching her official president ial bid this weekend. Thanks for joining me. Im delighted to be on your show. Tell us why youre leading on this issue and specifically, can you get President Trump somehow to do what others have tried and failed at which is have basic transparency about his taxes . Ive been leading on the issue of transparns and accountability in government since i was a member of congress in 2006. I was the first member of congress to post my schedule, earmark requests and my Financial Disclosure online. It was my sunlight report. I posted my taxes for the last