The irs says 330,000 americans are far enough into the process to find out how big of a subsidy theyll receive. A good indicator of how many people are signing up. But the site faced another glitch. Data system that verifies Applicant Information crashed. 36 states using federal exchanges and the 14 states that run their own. Friend of the show josh barrow is back, editor of business insider, he is a boston guy. Perhaps the answer came from what the healthcare. Gov website needs is a pep talk from david ortiz, referring to nice pep talk that big papi was giving the guys in the dugout in the game that led to that winning the game. Part of the problem is theres a big project giving the pep talk, part of the problem is we have folks in the Democratic Party that say we need to push the deadline back. But the problem with that the Way Insurance act wearies work, they start in the spring of 2014 to look at the pool and see what kinds of claims have been lodged and figure out what the rates will be. That will mean 2015 rates could be higher and it could ruin the whole thing. It could mean that. If you push back individuals for the individual mandate, some people will take longer to sign up. The other that they continue to have the i. T. Problems they are having, people that want to wont be able to or only with great difficulty. And the people willing to try 15 times a day and press refresh until it works will tend to be people who most need coverage and thats where insurers will say all of these really sick expensive people signed up, well have to charge more. There are reasons to not be too afraid. The law has various complicated mechanisms that compensate insurers, a lot of cost will get transferred to taxpayers and thats a problem for the federal budget but may not be a problem for the insurance market. As long as the system is working right for 2015, the insurers will say we had an unusual circumstance where we ended up with a lot of sick people and now cross our fingers, it is working in 2015 and we expect more signups. They may not push the rates up so much. The insurers have a lot of reasons to want it to work. They dont want a death spiral with skyrocketing insurance rates more than any of the rest of us do. Its not time to panic yet. The sooner the better they can get the website fixed the less we have to worry about the enrollment problems. Extending and delaying was not an original part of the plan, but neither were the incredibly problematic glitches that were having to deal with now. Theres im really not that surprised you have a number of democrats pushing the extending at least the Enrollment Period and you have joe manchin, here he is yesterday on this week. Working in a bipartisan manner to put a coalition together of bipartisan senators that says the penalty, the fine of 95 will not be into effect until january 2015. At that time the fine will be 325. It will still induce people to get involved but also give us a time to transition in and i think we need that period to work out the things and weve identified a lot of problems and glitches. Josh, it isnt fair to think these americans are trying to set up and the key instrument is preventing them from doing that exact thing. If they dont solve all of the problems come end of november, it seems this delaying, whole idea is actually inevitable. I dont think november is the right day. Keep in mind the individual mandate technically starts on january 1st but you dont have to pay a penalty if you have a short gap in coverage during a year, defined as less than three months. People have to get signed up by sometime in the middle of march. Then they will have coverage for enough of 2014 not to be subject to a penalty. We cant say to people were penalizing them for insurance they couldnt buy or couldnt buy without going through tremendous difficulty, but we have a few more months to figure out whether thats going to be the case of the manchin is out in front because hes from a red state where obama care is unpopular. But i think the white house is going to quite reasonably hold off for a little while before making decisions about a delay. They also have an ability to effectively delay the mandate without an act of congress. It is a thing for show for congress to talk about delaying the mandate. If it needs delayed for this reason, the white house can do it on its own. Its a weird denamic, you have senator manchin from a red state that would benefit dispro positi portion natalie, same with ted cruz. Go ahead. Big things are hard to do. Federalism is hard because we end up having up to 50 different approaches to things. Theres a lot of reasons why we do it this way. This law not working perfectly was crafted partly to allow for experimentation of the state level. Take a look at what kentucky is doing. Theyve had real success there on the left. Their state level site as compared to maryland which is struggle as we know the federal government is also struggling. Which makes sense when you still keep an eye on everything in the states and time to play out . Ideally, it would be great and i think that and Washington State and some others that have a lot of signups and what they are doing right. We dont have the luxury of a leisurely schedule to sit around and saying this state is doing great things. Lets be like them. Up and running for 2015 and we three months to start so you need time to make things work. If we were going to need more, we should have had the launch of the website on october 1 with the expectation that people would rely on it for coverage for january 1. The discovery process refers to the fact they are doing wrong now we have to figure out how to make it work. Thats one of the things to his point they said he did right. Thats exactly right. And california is another example that seems to be a model. If youve been writing about the policy and the Current Health care policy is insane, it s subsidizes for example, ted cruz talk to us about that. When conservative criticize obama care in particular, the fact youre seeing premium increases for a substantial number of people, they are saying its creating distortions and weird sub siddyes and thats true. But our Health Care System is also full of cross subsidies, it makes them somewhat more rational than they are right now. For example, the main way the government subsidizes health care for people under 65 is through a tax provision, where if your employer pays your cash, you pay taxes on it and if he pays in health insurance, you dont pay tax. This reduces revenue by 300 billion a year. If it were a government program, it would be one of the largest within the federal government. The way the subsidy is structured, the higher the tax rate, the more it is worth. Ted cruz, his wife is a highly paid investment banker, they get their insurance through a cadillac plan at Goldman Sachs and it cost 40,000 a year in 2009. To get a sense, Family Health insurance would cost 15,000 or 16,000, well more than twice as expensive as normal. The tax benefit is worth about 15,000. Now the cost to insure a family of four on medicaid at that time was about 11,000. So that its not that their Health Plan Cost more than medicaid but the part subsidized by taxpayers cost more than the entirety of medicare coverage. What the Affordable Care act does is shift around the subsidies, it takes the money and puts it to people who need it either because they have low incomes or High Health Needs and thats bad if youre a managing director at Goldman Sachs and you are going to indeed pay a higher premium than you were previously. When you lookty net effects on the overall population, more people with coverage and more people finding coverage is affordable. So ted cruz is a taker, got it. I didnt say it. I have no problem with ted cruz and his wife being on a plan at Goldman Sachs together, when he says our plan does nothing, doesnt take away from tax revenue, thats a lie. Either he doesnt understand what the benefit hes getting from the government there or hes lying. We may never know. Let me look forward to tomorrow with you, turning the corner a tiny bit, the house will be passing a resolution disapproving of the debt ceiling rates. So this is a messaging vote only. The senate wont have to do anything but the House Republicans get to say were angry and bitter didnt get to take the country over the debt ceiling. This suggests more extreme tactics ahead and they lost their courage the last second. What is going on with this party . This is better than what we were doing a month ago where we had threats we would hit the debt ceiling. In 2006 when president obama voted against the debt ceiling increase, they said that was a messaging vote, wasnt making polecy demands and knew it would be increased and pure grandstanding he was taking that vote for and grandstanding is basically free and that was fine. Thats whats happening now in the house i like and if this is what we can limit fights over the debt ceiling too, this would be a vast improvement. If he ran on that that would be one thing. We know the republicans will run on this. A little bit different there, josh. Well, its i will take what i can get in terms of improvement. Indeed. Yes, you will. Weve got a harvard for az dad and princeton, it dinner table what you get into it. Its all fun and games until somebody gets hurt. With the nsa spy game, that somebody may be america. Thanks Edward Snowden. We spin on that. On monday, all music all hour long lou reed, take a walk on the wild side. [ female announcer ] who are we . We are the thinkers. The job jugglers. The up allnighters. And the ones who turn ideas into action. Weve made our passions our lifes work. We strive for the moments where we can say, i did it we are entrepreneurs who started it all. With a signature. Legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. And were here to help start yours. Everybody is to leave here immediately. This is closed until further notice. Clear the room at once. How can he close me up . On what ground . Im shocked to find out gambling is going on in here. Thank you, very much. Shocked, shocked, i say. You mean to tell me the National Security agency had the power to spy on whomever they pleased and may have taken advantage of that power . You can bet nsa surveillance will be a topic of conversation when they meet with secretary of state john kerry in the oval office. A delegation of european participate Parliament Officials met with mike rogers to discuss reports that the u. S. Is collecting data from their citizens and spied on World Leaders from 35 different countries, including the personal cell phone the german Angela Merkel for more than a decade. The nsa went on record to say that the president did not know about it. It makes me feel worse actually. The president has been forced to apologize not only to merkel but frances president and brazils president. The eu is threatening to cancel pending trade talks. Thanks, Edward Snowden, we appreciate it. Lets spin. Theres a lot of directions to go. One of the dynamic thats really interesting, to consider president obamas position here, i think weve all been trying to figure out where exactly he stands. Hes been hawkish in some ways and continued a lot of these programs but he also seems sort of ret sent, saying they suspended the spying operations, they didnt know about it. Peter king said Something Interesting over the weekend that sort of speaks to that. The president should stop apologizing and being defensive. The realty is the nsa has saved thousands of lives not just in United States but in france and germany and throughout europe. Quite frankly they have done so much for our country and help this president in his term, he should be hes commander in chief, he should stand with nsa. George w. Bush took like the peter king approach, the world was black and white. If it was furthering our aim of capturing bad guys, that was the end of the story. This president because he is conflicted in some ways hes not getting praise or doing the right thing by either sides opinion. He seems publicly sort of like hes not even sure where he should be did. I dont think he knows where he is. He didnt even know this was going on. Come on, he knew. We talk honestly in public about what we do with intelligence, of course he knew. I dont think that makes it better for him not to have known. Im not sure they would put that out there if its not true. Theres a factual question, if he knew and he and his team are continuing to misrepresent that, thats deeply problematic. They have the right and ability to not get into it. On the other hand, if you take the current statements at face value, they are also very bad for a different reason, the nsa is not keeping potus on the loop on the top secret with our allies and that is something which the president should be informed about. Weve talked a lot about surveillance abuse. Peter king is saying, heres a bunch of people that help keep us safe. Great, theres a bunch of loyal patriotic americans keeping us safe. That is not the end of the issue. Theres a whole bunch of other stuff they lied to congress about, patriot act, revisions, et cetera. And abroad while they have the Legal Authority to do it, i dont question that abroad. They are not keeping the president and senior advisers, according to their own statements, in the loop to conduct the diplomacy i dont know i buy that. Why they have this information and not give it to him when he needs to act on it in certain situations. We have to do this surveillance and know what Angela Merkel and the president of france and brazil. Now we have to apologize to them for something we have to do. We have to know what they are why do we have to tap germany . Do they think germany is going to bomb snus. Us . We dont know what secret deals they could be doing with iran and we have to know what they are telling us publicly is the same what we have to get down to here. This is another Edward Snowden leak, he was trying to protect american people, thats one thing. This was just, let me damage of america. He has less principle that we knew and he wants to do as much damage to america as possible. I dont know the reasons for tapping Angela Merkels cell phone but part of the 9 11 attacks were planned in germany. But you dont know there are further reports that citizens are being spied on as well. Its important to keep that in mind. Its easy for us to say why is it going on and not when we dont understand why they do what they do. Its a gray world, not black and white. The problem i see, its a huge embarrassment not only for president obama but constituency and they are very upset. You think what implications will this have not only on Foreign Policy and trade but whats preventing them from saying screw you to us. You know whats preventing them . Were the exceptional nation. What are you going to do . I think president obama has serious mending to do and i dont think he deserves the blame but he has a job ahead of him to rebuild the trust. Were witnessing a surveillance Industrial Complex that is increasingly going rogue. Its broader at home and broader abroad than they told the president. What they are doing to us. I have to be on record i do believe what the president has said this week and i have to be on the r0rd theres a problem when the nsa doesnt tell the president what they are doing at this high level. The fans have been weighing in and saying whether they believe the president was ignorant of what the nsa was doing. 46 said the president probably did know about the program. Several ways you can get involved here. The poll is up on the Facebook Page and also on the cycle. Msnbc. Com. One of the great legal minds of our time, truly weighs in on whats missing from the Supreme Court today. Its affecting some of the biggest issues of our time from Voting Rights and money and politics and obama care. Judge Richard Posner is in the guest spot. Were very excited. My customers can shop around see who does good work and compare costs. It doesnt usually work that way with health care. But with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, Treatment Options and estimates for how much ill pay. That helps me, and my guys, make better decisions. I dont like guesses with my business, and definitely not with our health. Innovations that work for you. Thats health in numbers. Unitedhealthcare. Why would i take one pepcid® when i could take tums® throughout the day when my heartburn comes back . cause you only have to take one. [ male announcer ] dont be like the burns. 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Were proud to help veterans and their families succeed here at home. Virginia politics, former president bill clinton is on the campaign t