Bush looks like when hes not telling the truth and the duggar family has a new defense lawyer, megan kelly. Im running for president in 2016, if i run. Jeb bush has not actually announced his candidacy. Its pretty obvious that youre running for president. I would like to run, but i havent made the decision. Even hillary would like youre raising huge amounts of money. Do you feel that you have violated that . Of course not. The family name may be affecting jeb bush. My brother is not going to be a problem at all. Time has made george bush look better to people. Call it the United States of amnesia. Jeb bush said this weekend he has learned from his brothers successes. I havent even learned about his brothers successes. So the senate floor could be held hostage by president ial politics. Weve got some people running for National Office trying to you know draw attention to their campaigns. Using the senate floor to campaign for president. Rand paul who is fundraising off of this. Marco rubio, ted cruz. At the end of the day, the senate has to function. Lindsey graham could be the first bachelor elected president in 130 years. And hes also be the first candidate to choose his running mate in an elaborate rose ceremony. Fred worthheimer who was president of common cause for 14 years and is now the president of democracy 21 has spent his working life trying to clean up our politics. He has spent his working life fighting the corrupting influence of money in our politics. The New York Times has called him, quote, the countrys leading proponent for finance reform and the dean of Campaign Finance reformers. Many of the reforms that fred has advocated for Campaign Finance law, he believes jeb bush is violating that law. He cosigned a 15page letter with Gerald Hebert calling for an investigation into jeb bushs willful violation of federal Campaign Finance laws. Fred worthheimer did not follow. The hopelessly naive path of sending that letter to the federal Election Commission which has jurisdiction over Civil Enforcement of Campaign Finance laws and mostly ignores those laws. He sent that letter to attorney general Loretta Lynch who has prosecutal jurisdiction over criminal violations of Campaign Laws because fred worthheimer believes jeb bush is two things that jeb bush denies being. A candidate for president and a criminal. In his letter to the attorney general, which reads like a highly detailed criminal prosecution brief, fred worthheimer says both bush and the right to rise super pac are violating these prohibitions and in so doing they are engaged in a scheme to allow unlimited contributions to be sent directly on behalf of the Bush Campaign and thereby violate the candidate contribution limits enacted to prevent corruption and the appearance of corruption. There is only one defense that jeb bush has against these criminal accusations and it is a defense that no one believes. The defense is that he has not yet decided to run for president. Here is jeb bush yesterday. Pretending that he has not yet decided to be a candidate. If i run, if im a candidate, and that decision is going to be forthcoming real soon my intention is to run on my record and my ideas and run to try to win the presidency. Here is bob shaffer on sunday raising questions provoked by fred worthheimers letter to the attorney general. Do you think in some way you may be just at least violating the spirit of the law . Do you feel that you have violated the law . No of course not. I would never do that and im nearing the end of this journey of traveling and listening to people garnering, trying to get a sense of whether my candidacy would be viable or not. Were going to completely adhere to the law, for sure. Look, politics is politics. Theres always people that are going to be carping on the sidelines. Should i be a candidate, and that will be in the relatively near future where that decision will be made there will be no coordination at all with any super pac. Now, youre not telling me theres a possibility you may not run . Look i hope i run, to be honest with you. Id like to run, but i havent made the decision. New york times reporter eric lischbaugh and Jeremy Peters and jason hunt in dallas. Casey lurchbthunt youre on the campaign trail. Youve seen jeb bush saying i havent yet decided yet. Every once in a while he slips up. Does he get it right most of the time . Is it like a 90 rate the way he says it the way the lawyers tell him to say it . Except for that one time lawrence, absolutely. That tells you where his head is. Im hoping i can run. Hes the only one that seems to be unclear of that question. But in the broad scream of things, this campaign is essentially rewriting the rule book for how to operate a campaign in the context of this new super pac era. Were still waiting to see how it takes shape, but this super pac that is going to be supporting jeb bushs eventual candidacy, theyre talking about doing fundraising doing direct mail potentially, polling, almost outsourcing the usual campaign function to this super pack pac. Were really in unchartered waters on that. Its not just bush. You hear candidates saying look you may think thats a problem, but im not going the be the one thats going to unilaterally disarm. Lets listen to that one moment casey refers to where jeb bush slipped, told the truth and dropped back into the mode that hes in. Im running for president in 2016 and the focus is going to be about how we if i run, how do you create high sustained economic growth. Eric, there it was pep got the if i run back in there. The report in the New York Times today, fred worthheimer certainly isnt the only person who thinks this is a violation of law. No w. I spoke with a bunch of Campaign Finance lawyers who believe he is if not pushing the line perhaps even crossing it at this point. Because it is so clear to just about everyone that he is going to be a candidate for president and in the meantime without declaring himself a candidate, hes using the super pac that casey mentioned to raise as much as 100 million. And get around the normal Campaign Finance restrictions that would be in place if he in fact, were a candidate. And jeremy the big problem, political problem here is hes reached hes long past the point where everyone in iowa who watches him say that knows that hes not telling the truth. Theyre sitting there watching him Say Something that they know he knows isnt true and theyre looking at him and theyre looking at the way he talks when hes very comfortably saying something that isnt true. And that just isnt a good thing for a politician to get people used to what you look like and sound like when youre not telling the truth. It is a bit of an image problem. I think one of the issues is and eric lays this out pretty well in his story. The problem with the law is that you get into reading somebodys mind and you cant really prove whats in jeb bushs mind. And then the law would need to be clarified. And i think, you know finding the political will to do that right now, good luck. One of the things that struck my as so interesting about this debate in this contest is this election is going to be fought we think, over a lot of populist ideas, a lot of you know issues of economic populism. And it would seem that Campaign Finance reform especially with all of the very wealthy people who are ex eithering so much influence, it would seem that this is a moment that is right to take advantage of that populist tenor right now, thats really infused the election. And, eric i want to get back to this notion that its hard to tell when somebody is a candidate or isnt a candidate. If you go into fred worthheimers letter which is specific about all the statutes involved here and there are many one of the thresholds thats very clear is an individual becomes a candidate if the individual raises, quote, funds in excess of what could recentlibleyibly be expected to be used for exploratory activities. Now, funds in excess of what could reasonablebly be used for exploratory activities hes way, way, way over that amount and has been for months and months and months. Theres very clear lines, legal lines, that this campaign has crossed. And theres even a clearer legal line that says once you have raised or spent 5,000 well jeb bush flew past that in the first few seconds after last december when he announced he was actively considering a run. What hes done is used this outside super pac so its not his campaign that is raising the money isnt he doesnt have a campaign. Its an outside campaign. So he can say hes not raised a single dollar himself. Meanwhile, the super pac is holding 25,000 a head fundraisers in washington and new york and palm springs and hell probably have over 100 million in the bank by the time he actually announces. And casey, a lot of us have been treating this as kind of a joke for a while, that oh clearly, you know, a couple of months ago, this seemed like kind of a funny joke obviously hes decided. On the trail, when reporters are approaching him, is it getting more uncomfortable when they start probing this question that has legal implications . I think the questions have gotten more pointed, lawrence and it is a question to a certain extent of transparency which is how one reporter put it to him on the trail earlier. I think it stems from the fact that he did make that slip. In many ways its one of the things where they say you tell the truth in politics when you Say Something that is true but that nobody actually wants to hear. And this isnt one of those necessarily unpolitically correct moments, but he revealed himself in a way that we all knew to be true with that slipup. And i think it started or helped kick start the conversation that were having now. But, again, i think that the other the other issue here that we havent touched on is the toothlessness of the federal Election Commission at this point, the way that its structured, the way the complaints take months and months and months to wind their way through the system. Its unclear to me how this gets addressed if that particular agency continues to operate the way that it has. Talk about that how the fcc has in effect been defanged by politicians. Sure. I interviewed the chair woman of the fcc last month who admitted to me that she sees no hope that the fec will enforce blatant Campaign Finance elections this election season. But theres no reason to think the s. E. C. Will crack down on abuses and theres no reason to think the Justice Department is going to step in either despite letters from fred worthheimer and other people. I think its worth pointing out that the governor, governor bush is one of a number of candidates doing this. We have scott walker chris christie, rick perry and others who are actively campaigning, who are raising money and yet have not declared themselves candidates and yet, you know they, too, fall in that same category. Jeb is sort of taking it to whole other level in terms of the money that hes amassed and the network that hes set up. Eric and casey, thank you both for joining is tonight. Thanks, lawrence. Thank you. Coming up what it means for the senate when 5 of the senators are running for president. And Richard Clark will join us to discuss the effects of the changes in the patriotic act that president obama has signed into law. And the duggar family has a new defense lawyer. Megan kelly just guided them through the easiest interview they could possibly have faced. Not all omega3 supplements are the same. Introducing bayer pro ultra omega3 from the Heart Health Experts at bayer. With two times the concentration of epa and dha as the leading omega3 supplement. Plus, its the only brand with progel Technology Proven to reduce fish burps. New bayer pro ultra omega3. Audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. The only thing left to fear is you imagination. Nissan. Innovation that excites. Another day, another democrat decides to run for president. Elections are about choices and in the democratic primary, now there are some choices and thats good. And i know that with my record my high ethical standards and my vision for the future im going to be a good choice. Former rhode island senator and governor Lincoln Chafee today became the fourth announced democratic candidate for president. Up next how the senate United States senate has become the Campaign Headquarters for some president ial candidate. vo you can pass down a subaru forester. dad shes all yours. vo but you get to keep the memories. Love. Its what makes a subaru a subaru. The United States sneed senate used to be considered a liability for candidates running for president , but with five senators running for president , they are now trying to use the senate to their advantage. This is a debate about whether or not a warrant with a single name of a Single Company can be used to collect all the records, all of the phone records of all of the people in our country with a single warrant. I will object and i do. I object. If you think these provisions of obama care are so onerous, are so damaging are killing so many jobs why wont you provide an exemption for the people that live in your state . I wanted to come to the floor today to speak about the risks that iran poses to the world and the legislation before this senate. I believe this almost guarantees war. Joining us now, Dana Millbank of the Washington Post and she wrote a piece today called republican senators hold Congress Hostage to their ambitions and Jeremy Peters is back with us. Dana, whats going on is in the senate as you see it . Its sort of what you would expect. The Republican Party is largely leadless right now and we have you know, maybe eight or ten official candidates and twice that many unofficial candidates and of the four republican candidates in the senate well, you want to break free from the pack. So you want to generate a lot of attention. So we saw rand paul doing it this week on fisa and the nsa. Weve seen ted cruz do it on the the Homeland Security shutdown loretta lirn. Weve seen marco rubio do it early on iran as in the clip you played. Weve seen Lindsey Graham do it with the export import bank. And you know what it is . Its good for their campaign because it helps them break free from the pack. What its not good for is governing and Mitch Mcconnell is certainly pulling his hair out at this point because he cant keep things in order here and this is how its going to be for the next year and a half or so and the ambitions of these guys running for office basically are at odds with governing. In a way, they get ahead by proving that their own party in the United States senate cant govern. Jeremy peters i think this is going to be some of these calls are going to be trickier than we might think. There would obviously be a lot of stumping on the senate floor. But the case of rand paul on the patriotic act, he has been an opponent of the patriotic act. He was doing what was consistent with his position on this. Its hard for me to imagine him approaching this any different even if he were in the a candidate for president. I agree with you 100 . This is the core of rand pauls convictions. As his top adviser put it to me the other day, this is why rand paul is in the senate. Even if he werent running for president , i i dont see this playing out any other way. Rand paul would have been on the floor objecting and cheering when he forced the expiration of this bill. But i think the point that dana made early about the point that governing does not exist on capitol hill at the moment this has been true for a while and that has given these senators running for president an opening, an excuse to basically perpetuate whats going on here. So they dont see any big break with the norm here by Holding Things up. Lets not forget that ted cruz basically brought the federal government to its knees in october of 2013 because he felt like it. And he wasnt running for president then. So this president has been there for a while and i think, you know, unfortunately, having these guys all run for the white house has just made what was already a problem quite worse. And daneny to rand pauls actual point that he was making on the senate floor, i dont see the math the political mathematics that says that was republicful to his campaign. I dont see how that picks him up votes that he doesnt already have out there among republican primary voters. So this is a this is a difficult one, i think, to make the case that this was for his campaign because i just dont see i dont see how this helps his campaign. Am i missing something about how that was working . Well look it was time with a his book release came at exactly the same point when he was doing these interviews all over the place. So and, you know certainly the idea of having a tenhour or whatever filibuster it was on the floor is about showboating. Now, i agree with you. I agree with jeremy. This is very much his issue. The irony here is if he hadnt been doing the showboating, he had some very serious, legitimate, reasonable amendments to this nsa patriotic act legislation that probably would have been accepted but he spent a week antagonizing his own republican colleagues so much with what hed done that they essentially wouldnt take up his amendment. So in the end, he wound up setting back his libertarian cause, his Civil Liberties cause, but gained himself some publicity