The resistance against President Trump. General flynn is a wonderful man. The hills are alive with the sound of crazy i think he has been treated very, very unfairly by the media. But the president was the one who fired him. As i call it, the fake immediate where in many places. He blames the press for telling him the truth. This is crazy. Things are being leaked. Its criminal action. Criminal act. So if theyre real leaks, its not fake news. He cant do both. This is a matter of seriousness and gravity. And we should treat it as such. We had donald trump during the 2016 campaign praising and embracing the russian interference. Wiki leebs. I love wikileaks. We certainly need to investigate whether there was some kind of coordination. Very serious. The case where its not the coverup, its the crime. Democrats are asking what President Trump knew. What did he know . Its historic. Its the first time anyone has ever accused donald trump of knowing too much. Good evening. As a matter of both known facts and historical precedent, the storm surrounding President Trumps white house tonight is profoundly unusual. The National Security adviser is out after less than a month on the job. Trump Officials Say he lost their trust for misleading them about his dealings with the kremlin. Translation. The white house is insisting the problem is what the National Security adviser said about his dealings with the kremlin, not what he actually did. Now keep in mind that whatever he did and we dont have all the facts yet, it was enough to trigger the very unusual step of the fbi interviewing him when he first got on the job. Meanwhile, the president is saying he has nothing but love for the man he just sent packing. General flynn is a wonderful man. I think he has been treated very, very unfairly by the media. As i call it, the fake media in many cases. People are trying to cover up for a terrible loss that the democrats had under Hillary Clinton. I think its very, very unfair whats happened to general flynn, the way he was treated, and the documents and papers that were illegally i stress that illegally leaked. Very, very unfair. You notice the only person who is talking about Hillary Clinton anymore is President Trump. Now he is upset about government leaks to the New York Times, which of course accurately reported that a handful of trumps former aides or policy advisers according to the fbi had contact with senior russian intelligence officials during the president ial election that is a story what the fbi says that is a useful piece of information. On the other side, we want to tell you, those aides do deny the fbis statements or these government source statements that they had the contacts. Telling the times he did not knowingly have contact with russian intelligence. I spoke to roger stone this morning, and he told me that that New York Times story is categorically false, and that unlike flynn, he has not heard from the fbi. Even with those denials to that part of the story, however, there is certainly a bipartisan push for more answers. We can tell you tonight the leaders of the Judiciary Committee, this is from both parties, the letter youre looking at, pressing the fbi for what they want now, actual transcripts of flynns calls with russia. And flynn is only a piece of a much broader puzzle. Some republicans calling for a congressional probe. Obviously, these allegations which patiently are credible because theyre carried by the most credible media. It needs to be investigated. The president is better served by Congress Looking at this, looking at it quickly as possible, but taking all the time necessary. I think now coming before us and testifying if that can be done would be a very appropriate thing for to have happen. Congress certainly has an oversight rule here. But if there are potential crimes, which by the way is the only legal justification for the fbi to be involved in the first place, then the ultimate question will be whether the Trump Justice Department has the independence to follow the facts wherever they may lead or whether it already has an inherent conflict when investigating itself. On that point, we can tell you a group of 11 Democratic Senators now say the only solution is for attorney general sessions to appoint an independent special counsel who can handle the case that is what the george w. Bush administration did when facing criminal inquiries about the leaking of cia agent Valerie Plames identity. They appointed the special investigator who could handle without interference. Chuck schumer says that is what the rules require now. Jeff sessions was chairman of the National SecurityAdvisory Committee alongside general Michael Flynn. He was a Senior Adviser in the Trump Campaign. Those facts and the department of justices own rules disqualify attorney general a sessions from running this investigation. Attorney general session must recuse himself immediately. Any investigation headed, directed by, or influenced by the attorney general will be jaundiced from the very start. Joining me now is david corn, Washington Bureau chief for mother jones and msnbc analyst. And kern eichenwald. Investigative reporter at newsweek. The white house has said that flynn basically misled them, that it was a type of coverup. But youve written and reported that its worse than a coverup. What do you mean by that . Well, in washington we say its not the crime, its the coverup. Actually, in this case, the big issue is the crime, if its not a crime, but the event. What happened. We can talk about what Michael Flynn did after the election in his conversations with the Russian Ambassador about the sanctions, about the russian hacking, whether that was proper or not. But what weve seen come out in the last couple of days, and what kirk and i have reported for a couple of months before the election is that trump associations, campaign associates, Business Associates are said to have had contact with russian officials before the election. Even Michael Flynn now, the Russian Ambassador said he was talking to Michael Flynn before the election. So this means that when the putin regime was trying to attack american democracy and rig the election to help donald trump, People Associated with donald trump were talking to representative of that government. We need to know who said what to whom and whether they gave any encouragement to the putin operation to attack u. S. Democracy. David, youve been on this story, including from before the election day. Kurt, youve also mentioned done a lot of reporting, recently looking at some of the foreign sources. What can you tell us . Well, sort of one of the shock moments here is that we are now the subject, we the United States, are the subject of some intelligence operations being conducted by our allies in europe. They are trying to figure out whats going on in the Trump Administration. They have been intercepting conversations between members of the Trump Campaign and russians since at least august when they first caught wind that there was some sort of improper connection. You have one western European Intelligence Service that is conducting surveillance and intercepting conversations. And you have the Intelligence Service of a baltic state that is running an intelligence operation out of concern that donald trump is going to embolden putins aspirations and put their own sovereignty at risk. But thats to some degree arguably policy, and there is plenty of espionage and surveillance going on globally. Are you finding, are your sources relaying anything untoward between what was then the Trump Campaign and russia . Well, there is certainly the very strong indication that there were improper things going on. That there were things going on. You dont have an ally basically spying on an american president ial campaign if they dont have any concerns. And theyre deeply concerned. One of the things im finding fascinating here is for lack of a better description, how easily im being able to obtain this information now. Because maybe they want it out. Let my bring in evan as a former cia official. Your thoughts. Well, look. I would say what we have happening here is a realignment of u. S. Relations, u. S. Alliances as a result of Donald Trumps positioning. Now, ari, you just pointed out that hey, this is just policy, and there is nothing egregious or wrong about a new president having new policies. Thats exactly right. We can debate about whether these policies are good or bad. But there is Something Different about this situation. That is that donald trump may be compromised. And that whats motivating him to advance policy positions and policy goals that most policy most Foreign Policy experts and National Security experts think are extraordinarily damaging to our interests and to the interests of our allies. Weve got to understand what is motivating donald trump. And thats why this new information coming from the New York Times and elsewhere is so important. And its why its so important for us to learn more. And david corn, look again what Chuck Schumer says in this ballpark to evans point there is real concern that the administration transmission may try to cover up emails to russia that could shine a light on these connections. Senator schumer as you know is pretty careful in his wording and was a Judiciary Committee guy long before he happened to be democratic leader. What that statement says he is concerned about obstruction of justice, which is a felony. Of course. And anybody in charge of an investigation would be concerned about that. That would be the first thing you want to do is to sort of secure documents and witnesses. We have the house and Senate Intelligence committees behind closed door, beginning these investigations. Im told theyre off to a pretty slow start. That doesnt mean it wont pick up steam and do whats possible. But at the same time, these investigations are controlled by republicans who have an interest in the republican president not getting into too much trouble. Which is why you hear calls for an independent commission. This investigation doesnt have to be too difficult to ascertain what trump associates, maybe not Just Campaign people, but other associates were talking to russia before the election with russian officials and some might be caught by intercepts. You can start interviewing people. It really doesnt matter if roger stone tells you, ari melber, that he hasnt been contacted yet by the fbi because the fbi often doesnt Contact People who are under investigation. Ditto with paul manafort. But there is a way to do this if the republicans are serious. But thing is a big question about that. Well, yeah. You raise a very important point. Hold on one point. I want to bring in evan here. You raise an important point. I want to be here and im reporting the deniefls these individuals. Having said that, if you are further up the chain in a potential investigation, or you are potentially a person of interest or a person of investigation, you may get one of the last introduce, certainly not the first. Thats true. And i am saying as a general observation, not a statement one way or the other about individuals. But just to say, as i often say, evan, there are things we know and things we dont know yet. We know the fbi has been looking into this. We know theyve been doing it for several months now. We really have no idea how far and wide or extensive that investigation is and whether its a criminal investigation or a Counter Intelligence investigation. Right. Which are two very different things. Right. And hold on, im sorry, kurt. I keep telling you to hold. Hold one more second. We have a call on the line. Its evan mcmullin. The story to ask you about, the story breaking in the last ten minutes. We just printed this. White house review of intelligence. The kind of headline that could be encouraging if you thought it was about dealing with any of this. But james risen and Matthew Rosenberg say actually brandnew the white house is looking at putting the business person in charge of some sort of review layering over the intelligence. And theyre already getting pushback from dan coates saying this might undermine him, this broad review before he even get confirmed. Absolutely. And this isnt the first time weve heard this. Weeks or months ago, donald trump in lashing out against the Intelligence Community after some other information was revealed said that he was going restructure the Intelligence Community after inauguration. The concern is that donald trump in whatever review he does will actually be trying to silence the Intelligence Community, especially when it comes to information that is damaging to him. You think this is a political bullying . I think it seems like it definitely could be. It seems like it could be. We dont know. We have to see it. I think im in not calling it, that im giving the president extraordinary benefit of the doubt. Yes. But its hard to ignore the motive here, which is the Intelligence Community through leaks, as donald trump is pointing out, is exposing a major vulnerability, as david corn has reported. There is no way for donald trump to explain this away. Kurt . Now one of the things thats very important here is, you know, there is no possibility for a coverup. This is not a circumstance like watergate where everybody can sit in a private room and discuss things and not know thats it on tape. Because its already on tape. Its already in recordings. And our allies have it. Our allies have been intercepting documents. Our allies have been intercepting emails. They have been recording telephone conversations. Well, kurt, youre putting your finger on the biggest question here. Henry hissinger famously used to say, the illegal we do now, the unconstitutional we do later. And then he said after they started roaring things in the white house, he said i dont say that anymore because of the recordings. A joke about how he knew he was being recorded. How did general flynn not know that contacts with the russians would be recorded . There would be a transcript. Can you explain that, kurt . Because he is an idiot its sort of like what else can i say . Thats the technical term, yes. There is not a lot of explanations for how someone could not know that 90 of the western world would be listening in on your conversation to the Russian Ambassador. Including the Russian Ambassador. He knew too. Right. Which goes to why they were concerned about blackmail. Im being told from the control room were out of time. This is fascinating. I want to continue. We have a lot more in the show on oit. Evan and kurt, thank you very much for joining. Coming up, what donald trump said and did not say today about Michael Flynn shows how he is using the press to build a wall around his own world view. Ive got a breakdown on that. And first tonight, labor advocates declaring victory as Andrew Posner withdraws formally as Donald Trumps labor secretary. Okay, so whats our latest data say . Our customer is a 21yearold female. Heavily into basketball. Wait. Data just changed. Now shes into disc sports. Ah, no shes not. Since when . Since now. Shes into tai chi. She found disc sports too stressful. Hold on. Let me ask you this. Whats she gonna like six months from now . Who do we have on aerial karate . Steve. Steve. Steve. And alexis. Uh, no. Just steve. Just steve. Just steve. Live business, powered by sap. When you run live, you run simple. The emerging movement to stop donald trump is declaring victory tonight as Andrew Puzder is withdrawing as trumps labor secretary nominee. A big piece of news that is next. With this level of engineering. Its a performance machine. With this degree of intelligence. Its a supercomputer. With this grade of protection. Its a fortress. And with this standard of luxury. Its an oasis. The 2017 eclass. Its everything you need it to be. And more. Lease the e300 for 549 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. Mercedesbenz. The best or nothing. I have the worst cold i better take something. Dayquil liquid gels dont treat your runny nose. Seriously . Alkaseltzer plus cold and cough liquid gels fights your worst cold symptoms plus your runny nose. Oh, what a relief it is. President trumps choice for labor secretary is out of the running, his nomination collapsing one day before what would have been his Senate Confirmation hearing. Andrew puzder tweeted this. I am withdrawing my nomination for secretary of labor. Im honored to have been c