Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

Assads chemical weapons on his civilians. This is a message for the assad regime as well as its sponsors, iran and russia. Its not clear Vladimir Putin is getting the message. Theres a failed attempt at condemning the attack. There are reports of putins Disinformation Campaign escalating. On capitol hill, there is support for the mission and questions on whether the president needs explicit authority for actions like this. A much larger question, donald trump admits what people said is a reasonable strike and that is whether this is a Mission Accomplished. If so, what is the mission . In a moment, ill be joined by the top democrat on the house Foreign Relations committee. We begin to give you the latest on the air strikes and reaction from several middle east countries. Saudi arabia expressing support, targeting certain sites. Uae supports the actions by the u. S. Looking to solve the entire crisis. Meanwhile, egypt basically expressing concern about the strikes saying it could have a negative impact for the safety of the people inside syria. Back to what happened, 100 missiles aimed at three places near demas kus and homs. Vice president mike pence saying this deals with syrias chemical weapons and dealt a major blow to the program. We believe that we significantly degraded their program. We believe we significantly degraded their ability to produce chemical weapons. But, this was also about reestablishing what we call a deterrent framework of working with our allies as President Trump reached out to the United Kingdom and france. Tough rhetoric at Bashar Al Assad at the security council. This is interesting. This is something russia triggered and u. N. Ambassador, nikki haley said if you use chemical weapons again, the u. S. Will act. I spoke to the president this morning and he said if the Syrian Regime uses this poisonous gas again, the United States is locked and loaded. When our president draws a red line, our president enforces the red line. Our team of reporters have been working overtime all weekend covering this story. Hans nichols is live at the pentagon, jeff bennet live at the white house. Hans, i will begin, as we often do with the unfair question. Has anything changed, at this hour, from the pentagons point of view of assessing whats been done and where they are headed . Not that they have shared with us, ari. They continue to do their battle assessment, they want to know exactly what they hit and what they met. Initial reaction, they think they have a good amount of success. All the missiles landed on to t target, none were shot down and none failed. They didnt have casualties from the fixed wing aircraft they have. In terms of what they accomplished, they think they knocked out and set back assads chemical weapons capabilities. Theres an important difference between degrading and destroying. We believe we have attacked the heart of the syrian chemical program. Im not saying they are not going to be able to reconstitute it or its not going to continue. This dealt them a very serious blow. When we talk about next steps, everyone at the pentagon stresses, they reserve the right to escalate. They have been explicit about that, especially with assad. The next step, the next move is in assads court. If you uses chemical weapons again, they have vowed to strike again. Ari . We have been reporting on this all day. In a presidency known to have a lot of critics and make mistakes, this is a day that seems to have gone reasonably well with, and i have had them in our coverage with people who are critical of donald trump saying this worked, yet, it seems two little words, Mission Accomplished is the one thing he struggled with. So, any thinking, any reporting you can suggest about the bidding behind you and how they feel about his choice to say that . Whats so interesting about his choice or use of that phrase is that usually when the president tweets things and you ask Senior Administration officials or regular white house officials about it, they wont give you a read on what they are thinking. They say a version of the tweet speaks for itself. In this instance, ari, you have seen Senior Administration officials and military leaders back the president up on this. The spokesman at the pentagon said today, the mission was a success and we heard from nikki haley, echo those same comments, even from mike pence. What we have seen take shape is this rhetorical pressure campaign, capped by nikki haley, the u. S. Is locked and loaded and could take further action against assad, if need be. Apart from a reflective criticism the president is getting from democrats who suggested he should have gotten prior authorization ahead of this attack, your point is spot on, that by and large, republicans are backing him without reservation and the fact that he appears to be showing resolve on the issue is well accepted. Still, republicans and democrats say they want to see a well articulated, coherent strategy for the months to come. Jeff, bennet, hans nichols, thank you both for your reporting. The president s decision to launch the air strikes has been met with criticism. A lot of assessments say it worked. A number of democrats say the president should have consulted congress. Releasing a new statement saying, quote, the Administration Must come to congress with a plan to push for an end to the violence in syria and a future for that country, which assad has no role, regime change. The president must come to congress to continue military action. The chairman, republican john mccain saying the air strike worked, but it falls short of a strategy for dealing with syria and is still needed. I turn to that very ranking democrat, congressman elliott angle, who joins me live in new york. Thank you for being here on a saturday night. Thanks for having me. You are saying this worked for what it was but it doesnt have a mission. Barack obama did a lot of strikes without authorization, same standard . Same standard. First of all, i think the strike yesterday was fine, i think what assad has done to his own people is horrendous and i think it sent a well deserved message to him. But, if this is going to involve things to come, the president needs to come to congress. Congress has been sort of aced out of the whole situation for many, many years now. Administrations, successive administrations have been using authorization for the use of military force dating back to 2001 and 2002. That should not be left to stand. I just want to be clear for viewers, that was the same Foreign Policy and legal architecture that Obama Administration used. You oppose that as well . Yes. I think the Obama Administration tried to put on the table a new aumf. The one from 2001 and 2002 was obviously after 9 11. We have since moved along. We sought an update, which is more than this president did. They took the position, these president s do, they can use post 9 11 authorizations of force to hit other new countries. I guess the question here is, if you did authorize a new operation against syria, could that have the unintended consequence seem like you are declaring war on Bashar Al Assad or is that what you want to do . Unfortunately, whether he has the weapons, chemical weapons or not is on the way to winning this war. You think assad is winning . I know assad is winning. When Donald Trump Tweets Mission Accomplished, what does that tell you. The Mission Accomplished is to slap assad on the wrist to say we are not going to tolerate his killing of people with gas and things like that. Hes killing 500,000 or 600,000 have been murdered. They have been slaughtered. I deal with syrian groups all the time. They tell me whats happening on the ground is horrific. While i think its good to strike, to tell him this is unacceptable, so hell kill people with other methods. Thats not really anymore acceptable. To have a coherent plan, i think the president needs to come to congress and Congress Needs to give the authorization. That is the biggest story, i think, right now. The other story that would be big, if we hadnt began bombing another country is what looks like a complete and total meltdown in the white house over Donald Trumps longtime lawyer, Michael Cohen having his Office Raided and being under a criminal investigation according to the feds. I dont think its sunk in for people. I was reading the filing the doj released of cohen. It panints the picture of someoe who is not really a lawyer, doesnt have a lot of other clients and does a lot of stuff for one person, donald trump, and, by the way is maybe breaking the law. Thats what comes through in the filing. It is devastating. In your view, if the president responds to this heat on Michael Cohen by trying to remove rod rosenstein, is that an element of obstruction . It certainly can be looked at it as. I think that could be a horrific thing. I have taken the position from day one mr. Mueller should be allowed to conduct his investigation and so should mr. Ros ros rosenstein. Any attempt to change that, i think many people would interpret that as obstruction of justice. Would you interpret it that way . I think possibly. They should be left alone to do their job. Final question because we have talked about these issues before. The founders in their wisdom or ignorance made the pardon power unreversible. Could he pardon cohen and that would be fine in your view . I dont know if it would be just fine. I think he might take the view he could. I think it would be lunging into one crisis after another, but thats what we have been seeing for the past few years. Should he get away with that . Certainly, theres indications hes moving toward something, whether its pushing against prosecutors or pardoning. On friday, he issued the first pardon from a different administration. Again, i think the president should not fire anyone. I dont think he should interfere with it. Let it play out, whether its mr. Mueller or mr. Rosenstein. Congressman, i appreciate you making time for, i know its a busy time for you and a saturday night, but an important time. Thank you for being here. Thank you, ari, a pleasure being here. We have two more special guests given all this news. I want to bring in former counselor to president s, hes a former special middle east coordinator under bill clinton and a former ambassador, dennis ross and National Security analyst and staff at the cia, jeremy bash. Ambassador ross, you spent a good deal of time around issues in the middle east and israel. You are familiar with situations that are vexing and difficult. One option looks worse than the next. Thats the theme of experts that spoke to us about what else can be done in syria against targeted attacks. Your assessment, since this is the first time we are hearing from you, whether this is a mission or not in the larger sense. You use the operative word, tactically, this was a success. We identified a small number of targets related to the development of chemical weapons and we were able to strike and destroy the targets. They are not the sum total of the chemical weapons. They represent part of an infrastructure that lends itself to syria producing chemical weapons. From that standpoint, this mission was successful. It doesnt change the balance of power in syria. It doesnt make a political process more likely. It doesnt change the character of irans presence and expanding presence which shia militias close to the syrian border. It doesnt deal with the factors that might lead to a political process in syria or might reduce the risk of a conflict between the israelis, iranians, shia militias and hezbollah. From a larger standpoint, this is a one off approach that is designed, principally not just to deal and send a message on the chemical weapons. The truth is, the real target are the russians, to convince the russians that since the president has made it clear he wants to get out of syria, the last thing assad should be doing is taking steps that invite us to act militarily. I do believe one or mission that was probably pursued here was to convince the russians that they have to control assad and they certainly have the means to do so when it comes to the use of chemical weapons. Do you give the Trump Administration credit for standing up to russia in this way, if, in your view, that was the right thing to do . I certainly think it was necessary to respond to the use of chemical weapons, not because of the importance within syria, but the message it sends more generally, that chemical weapons cannot be treated like any other weapon. There will be other dictators like assad and they shouldnt think using chemical weapons is a get out of jail free card. Let me press on that for viewers. Sometimes people wonder about that. There is a criticism of western powers as well that our policies result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, including civilians, including collateral damage. Why, from your perspective, you say as an obvious premise, why chemical weapons held out the International Legal community as so horrific if all these other things that are going on also result in terrible loss of life. Look, especially in syria, what you are saying is true. We have more than half a million dead, a very, very tiny percentage of that is a function of chemical weapons. Having said that, chemical weapons have been outlawed since world war i. We are going back 100 years. When you take a weapon thats been outlawed and say you can use z it, especially given the character of it. Small amounts of it can kill very large numbers of people. You are dealing with horrific weapons. You dont want to erode the prohibitions against their abuse. Thats the real reason or the main point i would make about why you single out chemical weapons, biological weapons or nuclear weapons. Jeremy bash, your thoughts on any of the above . I agree chemical weapons are particularly heinous and horrendous in terms of affecting innocent, human life. They are an aggravating factor, the underlying criminal, unlawful, horrendous activity, assad waged war on his own people. I was struck, ari, i love dennis perspective on this, why the administration selected such a narrow approach to the fission. There was a phrase in the pentagon, dont waste a crisis. They could have expanded the target set to degrade assads war making may sheen against his own people to try to change the balance of power and send a stronger signal to russia that hey, we need a different dynamic that erodes assads power. Ambassador . I think the administration was driven by concerns about escalation with the russians. They went to great pains to strike those targets where the russians and the iranians werent nearby. So, i think this was a very deep concern within the pentagon was not to create a possible exchange with the russians or put the russians in a position where they might retaliate, number one. Two, i think they were highly sensitive to the iranians, worried they might respond using shia militias against the americans. And in iraq, it is 5,000. I suspect that drove the administration. Do i think it would have been smart to hit the command controls which gets to the basics of assads power, absolutely. I think what was driving the administration, make a statement, increase the prospect of assads use and the russians constraining him so they wont use chemical weapons. There was not a larger purpose. There was a narrow purpose. It doesnt relate to the larger questions dealing in syria. Jeremy, on the point about trump and russia, you have been critical of many of his actions and statements. It has become common place to say the one thing donald trump wont do on twitter is criticize russia, is that suspicious . Let me read donald trump saying he vows to shoot down missiles involving syria. Get ready, they are coming nice, new and smart. You shouldnt be partners with a gas killing animal who kills his people and enjoys it. We all know Donald Trumps style well. Are you, jerry bash, as a critic, willing to acknowledge and credit doing something many people said he would never do . Yes. I think the Statement Last night at 9 01 p. M. Made clear that russia is acting in a way that enables the assad regime and the president was direct. The issue isnt the rhetoric, the issue is the action. At some point, we have to say to russia, there will be consequences for harboring assad and allowing him to wage war on his own people. I think we need to ratchet up the pressure on russia. The main policy approach of the administration has been to pull back, allow assad to say in power and let russia work its will. We are seeing the consequences with the weapons attack as well as many others that have been perpetrated over the past 12 months. Jeremy and dennis, thank you both, i appreciate it. We are going to fit in a break. Coming up, how is russia responding to the air strike . Putin is clearly unhappy. Live in studio in new york, we have one of the worlds foremost authorities on all things putin, journalist and author, my special guest, when we return. Yeah, my dad says our insurance doesnt have that. What . you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. Claritin and relief from of nondrowsy symptoms caused by over 200 allergens. Like those from buddy. Because stuffed animals are clearly no substitute for real ones. Feel the clarity and live claritin clear. The full value of your new car . Youre better off throwing your money right into the harbor. Im gonna regret that. With new car replacement, if your brand new car gets totaled, Liberty Mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. Liberty stands with you. Liberty mutual insurance. Welcome back to our special coverage. Russia and syria making clear they have nothing but contempt for the new u. S. Air strikes. U. N. Security council rejecting an attempt by russia to get a resolution for the assault. France and the uk were involved. It came with other harsh words including vp calling it aggression. Assad defiant after the attack. The Vladimir Putin<\/a> is getting the message. Theres a failed attempt at condemning the attack. There are reports of putins Disinformation Campaign<\/a> escalating. On capitol hill, there is support for the mission and questions on whether the president needs explicit authority for actions like this. A much larger question, donald trump admits what people said is a reasonable strike and that is whether this is a Mission Accomplished<\/a>. If so, what is the mission . In a moment, ill be joined by the top democrat on the house Foreign Relations<\/a> committee. We begin to give you the latest on the air strikes and reaction from several middle east countries. Saudi arabia expressing support, targeting certain sites. Uae supports the actions by the u. S. Looking to solve the entire crisis. Meanwhile, egypt basically expressing concern about the strikes saying it could have a negative impact for the safety of the people inside syria. Back to what happened, 100 missiles aimed at three places near demas kus and homs. Vice president mike pence saying this deals with syrias chemical weapons and dealt a major blow to the program. We believe that we significantly degraded their program. We believe we significantly degraded their ability to produce chemical weapons. But, this was also about reestablishing what we call a deterrent framework of working with our allies as President Trump<\/a> reached out to the United Kingdom<\/a> and france. Tough rhetoric at Bashar Al Assad<\/a> at the security council. This is interesting. This is something russia triggered and u. N. Ambassador, nikki haley said if you use chemical weapons again, the u. S. Will act. I spoke to the president this morning and he said if the Syrian Regime<\/a> uses this poisonous gas again, the United States<\/a> is locked and loaded. When our president draws a red line, our president enforces the red line. Our team of reporters have been working overtime all weekend covering this story. Hans nichols is live at the pentagon, jeff bennet live at the white house. Hans, i will begin, as we often do with the unfair question. Has anything changed, at this hour, from the pentagons point of view of assessing whats been done and where they are headed . Not that they have shared with us, ari. They continue to do their battle assessment, they want to know exactly what they hit and what they met. Initial reaction, they think they have a good amount of success. All the missiles landed on to t target, none were shot down and none failed. They didnt have casualties from the fixed wing aircraft they have. In terms of what they accomplished, they think they knocked out and set back assads chemical weapons capabilities. Theres an important difference between degrading and destroying. We believe we have attacked the heart of the syrian chemical program. Im not saying they are not going to be able to reconstitute it or its not going to continue. This dealt them a very serious blow. When we talk about next steps, everyone at the pentagon stresses, they reserve the right to escalate. They have been explicit about that, especially with assad. The next step, the next move is in assads court. If you uses chemical weapons again, they have vowed to strike again. Ari . We have been reporting on this all day. In a presidency known to have a lot of critics and make mistakes, this is a day that seems to have gone reasonably well with, and i have had them in our coverage with people who are critical of donald trump saying this worked, yet, it seems two little words, Mission Accomplished<\/a> is the one thing he struggled with. So, any thinking, any reporting you can suggest about the bidding behind you and how they feel about his choice to say that . Whats so interesting about his choice or use of that phrase is that usually when the president tweets things and you ask Senior Administration<\/a> officials or regular white house officials about it, they wont give you a read on what they are thinking. They say a version of the tweet speaks for itself. In this instance, ari, you have seen Senior Administration<\/a> officials and military leaders back the president up on this. The spokesman at the pentagon said today, the mission was a success and we heard from nikki haley, echo those same comments, even from mike pence. What we have seen take shape is this rhetorical pressure campaign, capped by nikki haley, the u. S. Is locked and loaded and could take further action against assad, if need be. Apart from a reflective criticism the president is getting from democrats who suggested he should have gotten prior authorization ahead of this attack, your point is spot on, that by and large, republicans are backing him without reservation and the fact that he appears to be showing resolve on the issue is well accepted. Still, republicans and democrats say they want to see a well articulated, coherent strategy for the months to come. Jeff, bennet, hans nichols, thank you both for your reporting. The president s decision to launch the air strikes has been met with criticism. A lot of assessments say it worked. A number of democrats say the president should have consulted congress. Releasing a new statement saying, quote, the Administration Must<\/a> come to congress with a plan to push for an end to the violence in syria and a future for that country, which assad has no role, regime change. The president must come to congress to continue military action. The chairman, republican john mccain saying the air strike worked, but it falls short of a strategy for dealing with syria and is still needed. I turn to that very ranking democrat, congressman elliott angle, who joins me live in new york. Thank you for being here on a saturday night. Thanks for having me. You are saying this worked for what it was but it doesnt have a mission. Barack obama did a lot of strikes without authorization, same standard . Same standard. First of all, i think the strike yesterday was fine, i think what assad has done to his own people is horrendous and i think it sent a well deserved message to him. But, if this is going to involve things to come, the president needs to come to congress. Congress has been sort of aced out of the whole situation for many, many years now. Administrations, successive administrations have been using authorization for the use of military force dating back to 2001 and 2002. That should not be left to stand. I just want to be clear for viewers, that was the same Foreign Policy<\/a> and legal architecture that Obama Administration<\/a> used. You oppose that as well . Yes. I think the Obama Administration<\/a> tried to put on the table a new aumf. The one from 2001 and 2002 was obviously after 9 11. We have since moved along. We sought an update, which is more than this president did. They took the position, these president s do, they can use post 9 11 authorizations of force to hit other new countries. I guess the question here is, if you did authorize a new operation against syria, could that have the unintended consequence seem like you are declaring war on Bashar Al Assad<\/a> or is that what you want to do . Unfortunately, whether he has the weapons, chemical weapons or not is on the way to winning this war. You think assad is winning . I know assad is winning. When Donald Trump Tweets<\/a> Mission Accomplished<\/a>, what does that tell you. The Mission Accomplished<\/a> is to slap assad on the wrist to say we are not going to tolerate his killing of people with gas and things like that. Hes killing 500,000 or 600,000 have been murdered. They have been slaughtered. I deal with syrian groups all the time. They tell me whats happening on the ground is horrific. While i think its good to strike, to tell him this is unacceptable, so hell kill people with other methods. Thats not really anymore acceptable. To have a coherent plan, i think the president needs to come to congress and Congress Needs<\/a> to give the authorization. That is the biggest story, i think, right now. The other story that would be big, if we hadnt began bombing another country is what looks like a complete and total meltdown in the white house over Donald Trumps<\/a> longtime lawyer, Michael Cohen<\/a> having his Office Raided<\/a> and being under a criminal investigation according to the feds. I dont think its sunk in for people. I was reading the filing the doj released of cohen. It panints the picture of someoe who is not really a lawyer, doesnt have a lot of other clients and does a lot of stuff for one person, donald trump, and, by the way is maybe breaking the law. Thats what comes through in the filing. It is devastating. In your view, if the president responds to this heat on Michael Cohen<\/a> by trying to remove rod rosenstein, is that an element of obstruction . It certainly can be looked at it as. I think that could be a horrific thing. I have taken the position from day one mr. Mueller should be allowed to conduct his investigation and so should mr. Ros ros rosenstein. Any attempt to change that, i think many people would interpret that as obstruction of justice. Would you interpret it that way . I think possibly. They should be left alone to do their job. Final question because we have talked about these issues before. The founders in their wisdom or ignorance made the pardon power unreversible. Could he pardon cohen and that would be fine in your view . I dont know if it would be just fine. I think he might take the view he could. I think it would be lunging into one crisis after another, but thats what we have been seeing for the past few years. Should he get away with that . Certainly, theres indications hes moving toward something, whether its pushing against prosecutors or pardoning. On friday, he issued the first pardon from a different administration. Again, i think the president should not fire anyone. I dont think he should interfere with it. Let it play out, whether its mr. Mueller or mr. Rosenstein. Congressman, i appreciate you making time for, i know its a busy time for you and a saturday night, but an important time. Thank you for being here. Thank you, ari, a pleasure being here. We have two more special guests given all this news. I want to bring in former counselor to president s, hes a former special middle east coordinator under bill clinton and a former ambassador, dennis ross and National Security<\/a> analyst and staff at the cia, jeremy bash. Ambassador ross, you spent a good deal of time around issues in the middle east and israel. You are familiar with situations that are vexing and difficult. One option looks worse than the next. Thats the theme of experts that spoke to us about what else can be done in syria against targeted attacks. Your assessment, since this is the first time we are hearing from you, whether this is a mission or not in the larger sense. You use the operative word, tactically, this was a success. We identified a small number of targets related to the development of chemical weapons and we were able to strike and destroy the targets. They are not the sum total of the chemical weapons. They represent part of an infrastructure that lends itself to syria producing chemical weapons. From that standpoint, this mission was successful. It doesnt change the balance of power in syria. It doesnt make a political process more likely. It doesnt change the character of irans presence and expanding presence which shia militias close to the syrian border. It doesnt deal with the factors that might lead to a political process in syria or might reduce the risk of a conflict between the israelis, iranians, shia militias and hezbollah. From a larger standpoint, this is a one off approach that is designed, principally not just to deal and send a message on the chemical weapons. The truth is, the real target are the russians, to convince the russians that since the president has made it clear he wants to get out of syria, the last thing assad should be doing is taking steps that invite us to act militarily. I do believe one or mission that was probably pursued here was to convince the russians that they have to control assad and they certainly have the means to do so when it comes to the use of chemical weapons. Do you give the Trump Administration<\/a> credit for standing up to russia in this way, if, in your view, that was the right thing to do . I certainly think it was necessary to respond to the use of chemical weapons, not because of the importance within syria, but the message it sends more generally, that chemical weapons cannot be treated like any other weapon. There will be other dictators like assad and they shouldnt think using chemical weapons is a get out of jail free card. Let me press on that for viewers. Sometimes people wonder about that. There is a criticism of western powers as well that our policies result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, including civilians, including collateral damage. Why, from your perspective, you say as an obvious premise, why chemical weapons held out the International Legal<\/a> community as so horrific if all these other things that are going on also result in terrible loss of life. Look, especially in syria, what you are saying is true. We have more than half a million dead, a very, very tiny percentage of that is a function of chemical weapons. Having said that, chemical weapons have been outlawed since world war i. We are going back 100 years. When you take a weapon thats been outlawed and say you can use z it, especially given the character of it. Small amounts of it can kill very large numbers of people. You are dealing with horrific weapons. You dont want to erode the prohibitions against their abuse. Thats the real reason or the main point i would make about why you single out chemical weapons, biological weapons or nuclear weapons. Jeremy bash, your thoughts on any of the above . I agree chemical weapons are particularly heinous and horrendous in terms of affecting innocent, human life. They are an aggravating factor, the underlying criminal, unlawful, horrendous activity, assad waged war on his own people. I was struck, ari, i love dennis perspective on this, why the administration selected such a narrow approach to the fission. There was a phrase in the pentagon, dont waste a crisis. They could have expanded the target set to degrade assads war making may sheen against his own people to try to change the balance of power and send a stronger signal to russia that hey, we need a different dynamic that erodes assads power. Ambassador . I think the administration was driven by concerns about escalation with the russians. They went to great pains to strike those targets where the russians and the iranians werent nearby. So, i think this was a very deep concern within the pentagon was not to create a possible exchange with the russians or put the russians in a position where they might retaliate, number one. Two, i think they were highly sensitive to the iranians, worried they might respond using shia militias against the americans. And in iraq, it is 5,000. I suspect that drove the administration. Do i think it would have been smart to hit the command controls which gets to the basics of assads power, absolutely. I think what was driving the administration, make a statement, increase the prospect of assads use and the russians constraining him so they wont use chemical weapons. There was not a larger purpose. There was a narrow purpose. It doesnt relate to the larger questions dealing in syria. Jeremy, on the point about trump and russia, you have been critical of many of his actions and statements. It has become common place to say the one thing donald trump wont do on twitter is criticize russia, is that suspicious . Let me read donald trump saying he vows to shoot down missiles involving syria. Get ready, they are coming nice, new and smart. You shouldnt be partners with a gas killing animal who kills his people and enjoys it. We all know Donald Trumps<\/a> style well. Are you, jerry bash, as a critic, willing to acknowledge and credit doing something many people said he would never do . Yes. I think the Statement Last<\/a> night at 9 01 p. M. Made clear that russia is acting in a way that enables the assad regime and the president was direct. The issue isnt the rhetoric, the issue is the action. At some point, we have to say to russia, there will be consequences for harboring assad and allowing him to wage war on his own people. I think we need to ratchet up the pressure on russia. The main policy approach of the administration has been to pull back, allow assad to say in power and let russia work its will. We are seeing the consequences with the weapons attack as well as many others that have been perpetrated over the past 12 months. Jeremy and dennis, thank you both, i appreciate it. We are going to fit in a break. Coming up, how is russia responding to the air strike . Putin is clearly unhappy. Live in studio in new york, we have one of the worlds foremost authorities on all things putin, journalist and author, my special guest, when we return. Yeah, my dad says our insurance doesnt have that. What . you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you\u2122. Liberty mutual insurance. Claritin and relief from of nondrowsy symptoms caused by over 200 allergens. Like those from buddy. Because stuffed animals are clearly no substitute for real ones. Feel the clarity and live claritin clear. The full value of your new car . Youre better off throwing your money right into the harbor. Im gonna regret that. With new car replacement, if your brand new car gets totaled, Liberty Mutual<\/a> will pay the entire value plus depreciation. Liberty stands with you. Liberty mutual insurance. Welcome back to our special coverage. Russia and syria making clear they have nothing but contempt for the new u. S. Air strikes. U. N. Security council rejecting an attempt by russia to get a resolution for the assault. France and the uk were involved. It came with other harsh words including vp calling it aggression. Assad defiant after the attack. The Washington Post<\/a> reports after the strike, a twitter account maintained by assads Department Says<\/a> it honorable cannot be humiliated. To go deeper, i was to bring in the author of the future is history. She is a known expert to our office as a putin explainer, even if you are more than that and thats not the only thing you want to do with your life. Gives you plenty of fodder. You are an interesting thinker, independent thinker. You dont play for a team, so you bedevil people. You are critical of Vladimir Putin<\/a>, but disagree with some of the american presumptions about him and whats going on. Lets begin with the conventional wisdom that putin controls trump. Thats what many people think, right or not, and that trump cant standup to putin, which i was discussing with other experts, which seems to be, to some degree detonated by him standing up to putin this weekend. How do you explain it . I dont actually think it requires an explanation. We have seen russianamerican relations deteriorate over the trump presidency. We have seen two major expulsions of diplomats. Before the syria strikes and before trump called out putin on twitter were at the lowest po t points since the cold war. We dont think about it because we are so interested in the russian collusion story, which is interesting. We are also watching this deterioration. When people hear you say that, they may think, well, i thought donald trump would criticize everyone but putin. Thats not true. Its just not true. If you thought that, you are not following what donald trump is really saying. I think there are a lot of factors here. One important one is that we tend to overestimate both putin and trump because it is comforting to think that whoever is running the world and whoever is running the two major powers is more highly organized and more strategic. With trump, that allusion is difficult to make. Is that your psychological view as human beings we dont like that idea . Of course we dont like that idea. We dont like the idea of a broader scale, we dont like the idea that humanity stumbles into the darkest hour. We like to think of villains and thought out. If its going to be terrible, it should at least make sense. Do you think that accidental horror at a human level is somehow feels worse . Absolutely. Accidental horror feels preventable, it feels so much more deeply regrettable than something that was carried out according to plan. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because i see that when people ask us about political events in the news. Theres a real frustration. I see this across ideology. Theres a frustration with things that have spun out of control or accidental because, in that, there seems to be an extra injustice. Of course World Affairs<\/a> and interstate conflict are typified by that. We would like to think that someone is driving the bus, if the bus is going to go off the cliff, at least someone was driving. The idea that we are on a Mountain Road<\/a> and no one is behind the wheel is terrifying. I think thats where we are. When you look at russias way of dealing with these attacks, general mccaffty was giving us an education that russia has the operational capacity to engage with these kind of bombings and it just completely declined to do so. Thats the geo strategic capacity they have. As a student of putin and critic of putin, how do you explain that choice by someone who talks a lot of smack, out there going to the u. N. Today, failed, who intervened in crimea occupied crimea. Im not choosing that word above and beyond any other and who, according to the bob mueller indictment sent a lot of russians to meddle in this election, yet today, he sees all this, how do you explain him not engaging the missiles . I think the best Case Scenario<\/a> for putin is to rhetorically have a big war, but physically not have too many people come back in coffins. That heightens the mobilization his regime depends on and the sets of mobilization and the sense of purpose more now than it did last week. Since the rubel collapsed last friday, the economic squeeze is going to make people more anxious, more doubtful. The best way to respond to anxiety is get them around the war. Russia is fighting a big war. A channel with all the programming yesterday, before the strikes. Inside russia . Inside russia. They showed war movies. This is something that russia has had a series of disasters. What is it if it doesnt involve russian action . The war in syria is a russianamerican conflict in the russian imagination. Depicted as such. It has been for years. The americans have attacked us. They have framed us. Here, the chemical attack is hand in hand with the poisoning of the spy in britain. Russia was framed to justify intervention, to justify what russians consider to be aggression. They are fighting a big war. If you can minimize the physical and human losses from that, while still having all the benefits from fighting a big war, which you can do if you control the media, theres no independent information coming into the country. You have given us plenty to think about including things people dont like to think about. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Coming up, after the break, President Trump<\/a> following in the footsteps of guess who . George w. Bush with the old saying of Mission Accomplished<\/a>. Well be right back. Mom . Dad . Hi i had a very minor fender bender tonight in an unreasonably narrow fast food drive thru lane. But what a powerful life lesson. And dont worry i have everything handled. I already spoke to our allstate agent, and i know that we have accident forgiveness. Which is so smart on your guys part. Like fact that theyll just. Forgive you. Four weeks without the car. Okay, yup. Good night. With accident forgiveness your rates wont go up just because of an accident. Switching to allstate is worth it. Nondrowsy claritin 24 hour relief when allergies occur. Day after day, after day. Because life should have more wishes and less worries. Feel the clarity and live claritin clear. Ive been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. I bet im the first blade maker youve ever met. Theres a lot of innovation that goes into making our thinnest longest lasting blades on the market. Precision machinery and highquality materials from around the world. Nobody else even comes close. Its about delivering a more comfortable shave every time. Invented in boston, made and sold around the world. Now starting at 7. 99. Gillette. The best a man can get. President trump says, quote, Mission Accomplished<\/a>. Its reminding a lot of people of another president that echoed those words. Today, trumps saturday morning declaration seemed premature a literal echo of bush landing on an Aircraft Carrier<\/a> accomplished 15 years ago. The war raged on. John allen joins me now. Well, what happened . Why take what people have said was an effective operation and add these famed bush words to it . You know, ari, one thing i can tell you about President Trump<\/a>, most folks know this intuitively, he likes to overstate how well hes done things. Its been a central element of his political persona. I dont think if he was trying to talk to george w. Bush in a way like this missile strike on syria was similar to his war 15 years ago. We have 5,000 troops left in iraq. At least at that point, he essentially toppled a dictator. That is not the scope of what you are looking at with regard to the strikes in syria. President trump struck syria a year ago, his general policy in that region has been continuous with president obama except the difference of strikes and what we have seen is without the strikes and with the strikes, neither one deterred assad. Why do you think he came up with that phrase, which is so linked to bush . Im not sure if hes trolling bush or not. You know, the psychology of that is probably beyond mine to understand. Mission accomplished is something people tend to use. Trump would like people to see him as commander in chief. I think the issue is donald trump, in politics has proven to be reliant on other peoples phrases. In other words, i think its what he does. America first, an isolationist phrase. Make America Great<\/a> again was reagans campaign slogan. He grabbed it. You know, theres the musician drake criticized for usin usingt writers. This is for you saying i dont write enough, he rejects the criticism of ghost writers. Donald trump is blatant about it. I wonder if Mission Accomplished<\/a> is just another day of taking another president s phrase . Hes definitely somebody who is good at coauthoring other peoples stuff. His stuff that works, lying ted cruz, none of that is genius. If he sees something that sounds good, maybe he thought Mission Accomplished<\/a> sounded good. Hold on, lets be fair. I was being critical, but what about cheating obama . Its very high level, clever stuff there. Yeah, you know, look, if you think President Trump<\/a>s way of talking about president obama is a sign of poetry like drake oremen or eminem, im not going to argue with you. The argument continues, you make the fair point, he is not really known as an original prostylist. Look, we have mostly been serious tonight looking at the serious issues. To me, i like to keep it real with the audience, it is hard to understand how you would invoke Mission Accomplished<\/a> in the middle east unless you are so in the habit of plagiarizing because thats what you do. He didnt get it from back then. Nobody would think to coop bush, which was criticize zed at the time. The bigger the mission, the less you need to say. Franklin roosevelt, the day after d day, asked the nation to pray with him. Yeah. Thats well put. Wasnt it Teddy Roosevelt<\/a> who said, walk softly, but carry a tweet. If you supply the pictures, ill supply the war. I dont think thats true. The rough riders were overexaggerated. People want this segment to end. Thats my fault. Thank you very much. We are going to turn to james comey taking on donald trump, a war of words. Thats next. Each day justin chooses to walk. At work. And after work. He does it all with dr. Scholls. Only dr. Scholls has massaging gel insoles that provide allday comfort. To keep him feeling more energized. Dr. Scholls. Born to move. Aah . I would have said you were crazy. But so began the year of me. I discovered the true meaning of paperless discounts. And the indescribable rush of saving drivers an average of 620. Why does fear feel so good . I fell in love three times once with a woman, once with a country, and finally. With myself. So, do you have anything to declare or not . Isnt that what im doing . So, do you have anything to declare or not . And then theres the best. We like cage free, and which ones just taste fresher and more flavorful . Only egglands best. We prefer organic, and which ones have 6 times more vitamin d and 25 less saturated fat . Only egglands best. My family deserves the best, and which egg is the best in so many ways . Only egglands best. Better taste, better nutrition, better eggs. Welcome back. Im at msnbc headquarters in new york. The air strikes on syria are, of course, the big story tonight. There is another major thing rattling the white house. Thats former fbi director, james comey, basically calling out donald trump for everything under the sun. Trump is in the cross hairs following the abc interview as well as excerpts coming out from the moe mentous book, a higher loyalty. I dont know whether the current president of the United States<\/a> with prostitutes peeing on one another in moscow. Its possible. President trump saying james comey is a leaker and a liar, he is an untruthful slime ball. It was my honor to fire james comey. The press secretary said there. Comey will be a disgraced partisan hack that broke his trust with the president of the United States<\/a>, the dedicated agents of the fbi and the American People<\/a> he vowed to faithfully serve. One of the president s greatest achievements will go down as firing director james comey. Snap. I am joined by federal prosecutor joyce as well as jeremy bash. Joyce, you and i have joined the conversation of aspects of this already. James comey served his country for a long time. He provided testimony under oath. There are many obvious contrasts here. In the clip i played and the way comey rolled out the book tour, which is a for profit event, it seems to many, he decided to focus in on the most salacious and pointless allegations. If he doesnt know if the quote, pee tape exists, doesnt he have a better way to deal with the questions than to say as the former fbi director, its possible . So, i havent read the book, yet. I feel i have to issue that caveat before discussing the portions of the book we have seen. It seems to me, the point former director comey is making is the point that we have discussed, as you point out a lot, having these sorts of questions about a president are very, very disturbing. We dont know if we can rely on the president of the United States<\/a> to tell the truth or not. Maybe he is, maybe he isnt. For a president to permit his credibility to be distinct, to be diminished to that level is, i believe, the problem the former problem pounlts out here. I think you put that very well and very measured. I would continue to press you, as is part of my job, is he out of line, given his role as the former fbi director, in the room for the important conversations, Holding Forth<\/a> on something by his own estimation, he has no idea if its true, highly salacious, equally, if not more posz zable, it is a disinformation tactic from russia rather than a thing that happened and here we are, as you say, no, the entire book is not out for the general public to read at this hour. This is what hes leading with in these television interviews. Sure. I dont mean to be an apoll gist for comey. We will read the book. We have seen personal shots he takes at the president. Many people find it very surprising. At the end of the day, i suppose well have the read the book in its entirety and see if he lowered himself to the level of the president or raise the discourse by talking about leadership lessons. Jeremy . Yeah, i mean comey held himself out as rectitude and it served him well. Its infused his narrative with a lot of credibility. Im less troubled with the fact that he sprinkles in some of his interviews for the book, which i havent read either, joyce, with some color, some descriptions of what he saw, descriptions of the president or discussing some of the more crazy things. The point is, this is not normal. We are not in a normal period of history. Anyone who tries to normalize these allegations associated with the president is undermining american democracy and i think comey has a broader, more important point. If people think he is not the pair gone of rectitude he portrayed himself to be, so be it. Take the evidence and judge it for yourself. The other thing that is happening, that is real, not words, not a book, joyce, is donald trump in the midst of all of this issued his first major pardon for obstruction of justice by a white house aide. Absent the other big, important things, that would be the very biggest biggest story all weekend. Let me play for you what valorie play, who of course figures into this, said about it. The message being sent is you can commit perjury and i will pardon you if it protects me and i deem you are loyal to me. I think the message is damaging to democracy and the rule of law. Joyce, do you feel that is what donald trump is saying using a of perjury who never served a day in prison, out of the blue go forward with this pardon on friday, to Say Something<\/a> for people who work with him who might have a decision to make in a criminal decision in the pros . Theres no other reason to issue this pardon, theres no other way to read it as a message to people who are under indictment who can testify against the president. Skew by libby was convicted of lying to the fbi. This comes out of the blue, ten years after that conviction. C conveniently for the time Pat Fitzgerald<\/a> in chicago who dieted libby, acknowledged the president has the right to issue a pardon but it doesnt change the facts. The facts are if facts ks people who obstruct justice to be convicted. For this president to send a strong signal to people that hell take care of them if they lie to the fbi and if they obstruct an investigation. Its a rule of law investigation. People on the hill should be up in arms as former doj employees have been very vocal for last couple of days protesting this move. Yeah, it was quite extraordinary and extreme. Joyce vance and jerry bash thank you for being part of our special coverage. You talked about james comey, how did he get here . Theres a new edition of headliners airing tomorrow here at 9 00 p. M. Eastern. Well be right back. [passenger] what are you doing . [driver] i cant believe that worked. I dropped the keys. [burke] and we covered it. Talk to farmers, we know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum the toothpaste that helps prevent bleeding gums. If you spit blood when you brush or floss you may have gum problems and could be on the journey to much worse. Help stop the journey of gum disease. Try parodontax toothpaste. You wont find relief here. Congestion and pressure . Go to the pharmacy counter for powerful claritind. While the leading allergy spray relieves 6 symptoms. Claritind relieves 8, including sinus congestion and pressure. Claritind relieves more. Ive been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. I bet im the first blade maker youve ever met. Theres a lot of innovation that goes into making our thinnest longest lasting blades on the market. Precision machinery and highquality materials from around the world. Nobody else even comes close. Its about delivering a more comfortable shave every time. Invented in boston, made and sold around the world. Now starting at 7. 99. Gillette. The best a man can get. Thanks for watching our ongoing special coverage of the strikes in syria. You can stay with us for updates throughout the night and breaking news when it happens. If you want to find me, the beat airs every monday night. It is today the trump lawyer, Michael Cohen<\/a> may plead the fifth. Avenatti may give us his reaction. Have a great night. [whistling] hello. Give me an hour in tanning room 3. Cheers thats confident. But its not kayak confident. Kayak searches hundreds of travel sites to help me plan the best trip. So im more than confident. Forgot me goggles. Kayak. Search one and done. You totanobodys hurt, new car. But there will still be pain. It comes when your Insurance Company<\/a> says theyll only pay threequarters of what it takes to replace it. What are you supposed to do . Drive threequarters of a car . Now if you had Liberty Mutual<\/a> new car replacement\u2122, youd get your whole car back. I guess they dont want you driving around on three wheels. Smart. With Liberty Mutual<\/a> new car replacement\u2122, well replace the full value of your car. Liberty stands with you\u2122. Liberty mutual insurance. Claritin and relief from of nondrowsy symptoms caused by over 200 allergens. Like those from buddy. Because stuffed animals are clearly no substitute for real ones. Feel the clarity and live claritin clear. Hey, im curious about your Social Security<\/a> alerts. Oh well alert you if we find your Social Security<\/a> number on any one of thousands of risky sites, so youll be in the know. Ewww being in the know is very good. Dont shake ahhh sign up online for free. Discover Social Security<\/a> alerts. Managing blood sugar isnt a marathon. Its a series of smart choices. Like using glucerna to replace one meal or snack a day. Only glucerna has carbsteady. Unique blends of slowrelease carbs to help manage blood sugar. Every meal. Every craving. Its the choices you make when managing blood sugar that are the real victories. Glucerna. Everyday progress. Hi everyone, its 4 00 in new york. The president s propose attorney is back in court this hour as a brand new Court Filing Confirms<\/a> hes under criminal investigation. From that filing quote, on april 9, 2018 agents from the field office computed certain warrants for Michael Cohen<\/a>s holt room. 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