Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

The president right when he says witch hunt . Yeah, sure. You cant explain this any other way. A gog. Its a word you dont see in newspapers often, in fact, i dont think ive seen it before. It was in their report today of how people in the white house reacted toll Rudy Giulianis performance. Quote, the White House Council had no idea, neither did the white house Chief Of Staff nor the White House Press secretary nor the new white house lawyer, they watched agog as he freestyled on Live Television wednesday night about the president s legal troubles and unveiled an explosive new fact that trump reimbursed his long time personal Attorney Michael Cohen for the 130,000 paid to Stormy Daniels. Rudy giuliani went on fox friends to try to smooth over the mountain of lies and inconsistent statements now that have been told by donald trump and Michael Cohen about the Stormy Daniels payment. Michael cohens first statement about the Stormy Daniels payment was on February 13th which he said he was not reimbursed for the payment either directly or indirectly. April 5th on Air Force One the president was asked did you know about the payment of 130,000 to Stormy Daniels, his answer was no. He was then asked why Michael Cohen made the statement. He said, youll have to ask Michael Cohen. So the fox hosts asked Rudy Giuliani, why . Why this morning . Michael cohen why he now said why he said he was not reimbursed if he really was reimbursed . I remember when Michael Cohen was interviewed about it, and it seemed like he was saying that he was never reintercontinental ballistic missile reimbursed that 130,000, now it sounds like the story is changing. He was definitely reimbursed. No doubt about it. Why did he say he wasnt . Maybe maybe first of all, if we had to defend this, its not being a campaign contribution, i think we can do that. This was for personal reasons. The president had been hurt personally, not politically. Personally so much. And the first lady by some of the false allegations. So Rudy Giuliani has no answer about why the reimbursement story has changed. And we should watch for that particular technique in answering a question when he begins with maybe, maybe, and then just changes the subject. His technique when he has no answer is to just verbally warned off in some new direction. And he has a enough story about when donald trump learned that he reimbursed Michael Cohen. He didnt know the details of this until we knew the details of it, which was a couple weeks ago, maybe not even a couple weeks, maybe ten days ago. Okay, god it. Two weeks ago. Two weeks ago was ten days after the raid of Michael Cohens apartment, hotel and office. So now were being asked to believe that donald trump didnt know, until after the raid, that donald trump had already reimbursed Michael Cohen with a series of reimbursement checks that began a year before. Rudy giuliani believes, like most Trump Associates and lawyers, that donald trump is completely incapable of speaking to the Special Prosecutor without committing a crime right before the prosecutors eyes. Now they go to Obstruction Of Justice, collusion among their the players. What theyre really trying to do is trap him into perjury, and were not suckers. No. Were not suckers. Because were not going to let the president commit a crime right in front of the Special Prosecutor. A crime that he can only commit if the president chooses to commit the crime of perjury. Because, of course, there is no such thing as a perjury trap. A trap is something that you cant get out of. All you have to do to avoid a perjury trap is tell the truth. Something Donald Trumps lawyers believe he absolutely cannot do. Joining us now barbara mcquade, matt miller, msnbc contributor, and michael izzakoff. Barbara, theres so many points to go over here, and im happy to have you take your pick. But working backwards from this idea of perjury trap, which is now this is now Rudy Giulianis big talking point, is that the Special Prosecutor is going to trap him, going to somehow force the president of the United States to commit perjury, as if donald trump has absolutely no control over his own ability to tell the truth. Its really nonsense, the Phrase Perjury Trap is used by prosecutors to mean calling someone before the grand jury when you have no legitimate purpose for doing so. The only reason you called them is not that you have any legitimate questions but solely to catch them in a lie. Its prohibited under Department Of Justice policy. Theres lots of questions that bob mueller wants to ask President Trump. And its President Trumps decision whether he wants to tell the truth or not. So any perjury would be in the control of the president. There may be strategic reasons not to choose to sit down for an interview but this is no perjury trap. Michael, it seems Rudy Giuliani has not even glanced at Campaign Finance law. He seems to think that if donald trump has reimbursed Michael Cohen, then theres no Campaign Finance law violation, of course, theres plenty of violations here, none of this was reported in the Campaign Finance reports as it must be. But giuliani seems to think his whole mission is to save donald trump from a Campaign Finance law violation. The days ago, which is apparently what giuliani said on fox friends this morning, is belied by the fact that he was making the payments, you know, starting in early 2017. And its you know, the idea the president , as president , would be Writing Checks to Michael Cohen without even asking why he was writing them, you know, is just, you know, defies reason. But, you know, on the Campaign Finance issue, i dont think its as clear cut as some people would like to be. Remember, the Justice Department tried to indicted john edwards for Campaign Finance violations about money paid to the woman he had impregnanted, and it lost. And i think its going to hinge on what sort of either a witness or emails or other communications that clearly link the payment to whats going on in the campaign. Yes, the timing is highly suspicious and thats the reason we have the investigation going on, but i dont think the timing enough is the timing in and of itself is enough to make a criminal case on this matter. Lets listen to what Rudy Giuliani said he believes Attorney General Jeff Sessions should do now. The basis of the case is dead. Sessions should step in and close it and say enoughs enough. Matt miller, your reaction to that. I think he was talking about the Campaign Finance case against Michael Cohen and potentially against donald trump. A couple things about that. First of all its not at all clear that case is dead. Obviously the prosecutors for the Southern District of new york are pursuing it aggressively. But i think it would be a mistake to assume they are only investigating Campaign Finance. Theres no way those prosecutors and fbi agents would have raided the president s personal attorneys office if they werent looking for something more than Campaign Finance. Is it Michael Cohens personal dealings and nothing to do with donald trump or is it something to do with dealings with donald trump back before he was president of the United States. So to now ask the Attorney General who by the way, if it was Campaign Finance issues should be recused because he was a member of the campaign, to ask him to step in and kill a lawful investigation is Rudy Giuliani asking Jeff Sessions to obstruct justice only hes not doing it in secret, hes doing it in the open just like the president does when he tweets what he wants the Attorney General to do and what he wants the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney general to stop doing. Its this open corruption we see from the president and members of his team out in the public for everyone to see. Lets listen to what Rudy Giuliani said today about questions that were written by the trump team, leaked by the trump team as a summary of what the Special Prosecutor wants to ask the president. Look at the questions, they dont think collusion is dead if you look at the 52 questions we saw. Ridiculous questions, what did you think . What did you feel . What were you dreaming . I thought freud wrote them. I guess he didnt read them. I didnt see any questions about the dreams. Hes trying to ridicule them about being too outside the scope of the investigation. Its been reported that Robert Muellers team conveyed the topics they wanted to talk about and it was jay sekulow who actually wrote out the questions themselves. To the extent hes criticizing the phrasing of the question that could be jay sekulow and not Robert Mueller but even if it is Robert Mueller asking what the president knew, what he was thinking, is fair game and questions that need to be asked right now because the essential element of Obstruction Of Justice is corrupt purpose, intent, and the only way to ascertain that is to find out from President Trump himself. This is President Trumps opportunity to tell his side of the story. If he doesnt want to avail himself of that, the time may come when Robert Mueller moves on without listening to him. But its important that President Trump explain his motivations behind these decisions because thats the essence of Obstruction Of Justice. Giuliani is proving to be the most undisciplined public thinker and speaker in the Trump Legal Team, especially when he said something about the timing of the Stormy Daniels payment this morning when he was trying to make the case that this payment had absolutely nothing to do with the president ial campaign, and then giuliani brought up the timing of it. Lets listen to this. Imagine if that came out on october 15, 2016, in the middle of the last debate with hillary clinton. Michael, there it is. Theres the rationale for how this contribution that could be the evidence that prosecutors would want to use. Look, i actually think the more serious legal issues about the disclosure about the president reimbursed cohen gets to the fact he didnt disclose it on his Financial Disclosure form. This was in effect a loan he had gotten from Michael Cohen. Cohen puts up 130,000 in the first place, and then trump reimburses him. So i actually think that may be a more serious matter than the Campaign Finance. But look, it all is going to depend on what the communications are between Michael Cohen and the lawyer for Stormy Daniels, and stormy daniels herself. Was it discussed in the context of the campaign. Michael gets the last word. When we come back, Rudy Giuliani did something today that donald trump has not dared to do. Rudy giuliani insulted Michael Avenatti. We will show you what Rudy Giuliani had to say. Well show you his attacks on Michael Avenatti. And Michael Avenatti is here to respond. T ve got an idea sir. Get domo. Itll connect us to everything thats going on in the company. Get it for jean whos always cold. For the sales team, it and the warehouse crew. Give us the data we need. In one place, anywhere we need it. Help us do our jobs better. With domo we can run this place together. Well thats thats your job i guess. Let your inner light loose with one a day womens. A complete multivitamin specially formulated with key Nutrients Plus vitamin d for bone health support. Your one a day is showing. Ambulance trying to save this presidency that is about to be announced doa. I take it, look, were doing a hell of a job and the best evidence is i have Rudy Giuliani and other people calling us names, calling me an Ambulance Chaser. The reason is they cant deal with the facts and the evidence and the reality of the situation that they have been caught lying to the American People, the president has been caught on Air Force One lying to the American People. Michael cohen is about to be indicted and hes been caught lying to the American People. So you know what, i hope they keep calling me an Ambulance Chaser because it proves my point were doing a hell of a job. I want to go to something Michael Isikoff just said at the end of the segment. He said what if there was communication with Stormy Daniels, with Stormy Daniels counsel about getting this 130,000 settlement done when it was done because of the timing of the campaign. Are you aware of any communication with your client or your clients counsel, in October Of 2016, as they were closing this Settlement Agreement that involved the timing of the campaign . You know, our case has been pending almost two months and i made a lot of Tv Appearances and ive gone on a lot of shows and ive been interviewed a lot of times and a lot of people have commented on that, ive never been asked this question, and its perhaps one of the most important questions and im going to answer it right now. There were Extensive Communications between Michael Cohen and Keith Davidson in October Of 2016 relating to the timing of this payment and the need for the payment to be made prior to the election. Extensive communications relating to the need for the payment to be made when it was made and as it related to potential influence on the election. Period. Mlm and Keith Davidson was then Stormy Daniels lawyer . Correct everyone involved in this transaction around the time knew the importance of the payment as it related to the election. So any claim that the payment had nothing to do with the election is completely bogus. Theres no question it had everything to do with the election. Based on what you know, do you expect that in the fbi raid one of the things theyre going to find in emails or other Communication Systems that they have seized, do you think they will actually find some of the communication, at least, between Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels lawyer at the time saying this timing is about the campaign . I believe that they will find that. And i hope and pray that the reports of Rudy Giulianis<\/a> performance. Quote, the White House Council<\/a> had no idea, neither did the white house Chief Of Staff<\/a> nor the White House Press<\/a> secretary nor the new white house lawyer, they watched agog as he freestyled on Live Television<\/a> wednesday night about the president s legal troubles and unveiled an explosive new fact that trump reimbursed his long time personal Attorney Michael Cohen<\/a> for the 130,000 paid to Stormy Daniels<\/a>. Rudy giuliani went on fox friends to try to smooth over the mountain of lies and inconsistent statements now that have been told by donald trump and Michael Cohen<\/a> about the Stormy Daniels<\/a> payment. Michael cohens first statement about the Stormy Daniels<\/a> payment was on February 13th<\/a> which he said he was not reimbursed for the payment either directly or indirectly. April 5th on Air Force One<\/a> the president was asked did you know about the payment of 130,000 to Stormy Daniels<\/a>, his answer was no. He was then asked why Michael Cohen<\/a> made the statement. He said, youll have to ask Michael Cohen<\/a>. So the fox hosts asked Rudy Giuliani<\/a>, why . Why this morning . Michael cohen why he now said why he said he was not reimbursed if he really was reimbursed . I remember when Michael Cohen<\/a> was interviewed about it, and it seemed like he was saying that he was never reintercontinental\rballistic missile reimbursed that 130,000, now it sounds like the story is changing. He was definitely reimbursed. No doubt about it. Why did he say he wasnt . Maybe maybe first of all, if we had to defend this, its not being a campaign contribution, i think we can do that. This was for personal reasons. The president had been hurt personally, not politically. Personally so much. And the first lady by some of the false allegations. So Rudy Giuliani<\/a> has no answer about why the reimbursement story has changed. And we should watch for that particular technique in answering a question when he begins with maybe, maybe, and then just changes the subject. His technique when he has no answer is to just verbally warned off in some new direction. And he has a enough story about when donald trump learned that he reimbursed Michael Cohen<\/a>. He didnt know the details of\rthis until we knew the details of it, which was a couple weeks ago, maybe not even a couple weeks, maybe ten days ago. Okay, god it. Two weeks ago. Two weeks ago was ten days after the raid of Michael Cohen<\/a>s apartment, hotel and office. So now were being asked to believe that donald trump didnt know, until after the raid, that donald trump had already reimbursed Michael Cohen<\/a> with a series of reimbursement checks that began a year before. Rudy giuliani believes, like most Trump Associates<\/a> and lawyers, that donald trump is completely incapable of speaking to the Special Prosecutor<\/a> without committing a crime right before the prosecutors eyes. Now they go to Obstruction Of Justice<\/a>, collusion among their the players. What theyre really trying to do is trap him into perjury, and were not suckers. No. Were not suckers. Because were not going to let the president commit a crime right in front of the Special Prosecutor<\/a>. A crime that he can only commit if the president chooses to commit the crime of perjury. Because, of course, there is no such thing as a perjury trap. A trap is something that you cant get out of. All you have to do to avoid a perjury trap is tell the truth. Something Donald Trumps<\/a> lawyers believe he absolutely cannot do. Joining us now barbara mcquade, matt miller, msnbc contributor, and michael izzakoff. Barbara, theres so many points to go over here, and im happy to have you take your pick. But working backwards from this idea of perjury trap, which is now this is now Rudy Giulianis<\/a> big talking point, is that the Special Prosecutor<\/a> is going to trap him, going to somehow force the president of the United States<\/a> to commit perjury, as if donald trump has absolutely no control over his own ability to tell the truth. Its really nonsense, the Phrase Perjury Trap<\/a> is used by prosecutors to mean calling someone before the grand jury when you have no legitimate purpose for doing so. The only reason you called them is not that you have any legitimate questions but solely\rto catch them in a lie. Its prohibited under Department Of Justice<\/a> policy. Theres lots of questions that bob mueller wants to ask President Trump<\/a>. And its President Trump<\/a>s decision whether he wants to tell the truth or not. So any perjury would be in the control of the president. There may be strategic reasons not to choose to sit down for an interview but this is no perjury trap. Michael, it seems Rudy Giuliani<\/a> has not even glanced at Campaign Finance<\/a> law. He seems to think that if donald trump has reimbursed Michael Cohen<\/a>, then theres no Campaign Finance<\/a> law violation, of course, theres plenty of violations here, none of this was reported in the Campaign Finance<\/a> reports as it must be. But giuliani seems to think his whole mission is to save donald trump from a Campaign Finance<\/a> law violation. The\rdays ago, which is apparently what giuliani said on fox friends this morning, is belied by the fact that he was making the payments, you know, starting in early 2017. And its you know, the idea the president , as president , would be Writing Checks<\/a> to Michael Cohen<\/a> without even asking why he was writing them, you know, is just, you know, defies reason. But, you know, on the Campaign Finance<\/a> issue, i dont think its as clear cut as some people would like to be. Remember, the Justice Department<\/a> tried to indicted john edwards for Campaign Finance<\/a> violations about money paid to the woman he had impregnanted, and it lost. And i think its going to hinge on what sort of either a witness or emails or other communications that clearly link the payment to whats going on in the campaign. Yes, the timing is highly suspicious and thats the reason we have the investigation going on, but i dont think the timing enough is the timing in and of itself is enough to make a criminal case on this matter. Lets listen to what Rudy Giuliani<\/a> said he believes Attorney General<\/a> Jeff Sessions<\/a> should do now. The basis of the case is dead. Sessions should step in and close it and say enoughs enough. Matt miller, your reaction to that. I think he was talking about the Campaign Finance<\/a> case against Michael Cohen<\/a> and potentially against donald trump. A couple things about that. First of all its not at all clear that case is dead. Obviously the prosecutors for the Southern District<\/a> of new york are pursuing it aggressively. But i think it would be a mistake to assume they are only investigating Campaign Finance<\/a>. Theres no way those prosecutors and fbi agents would have raided the president s personal\rattorneys office if they werent looking for something more than Campaign Finance<\/a>. Is it Michael Cohen<\/a>s personal dealings and nothing to do with donald trump or is it something to do with dealings with donald trump back before he was president of the United States<\/a>. So to now ask the Attorney General<\/a> who by the way, if it was Campaign Finance<\/a> issues should be recused because he was a member of the campaign, to ask him to step in and kill a lawful investigation is Rudy Giuliani<\/a> asking Jeff Sessions<\/a> to obstruct justice only hes not doing it in secret, hes doing it in the open just like the president does when he tweets what he wants the Attorney General<\/a> to do and what he wants the Attorney General<\/a> and Deputy Attorney<\/a> general to stop doing. Its this open corruption we see from the president and members of his team out in the public for everyone to see. Lets listen to what Rudy Giuliani<\/a> said today about\rquestions that were written by the trump team, leaked by the trump team as a summary of what the Special Prosecutor<\/a> wants to ask the president. Look at the questions, they dont think collusion is dead if you look at the 52 questions we saw. Ridiculous questions, what did you think . What did you feel . What were you dreaming . I thought freud wrote them. I guess he didnt read them. I didnt see any questions about the dreams. Hes trying to ridicule them about being too outside the scope of the investigation. Its been reported that Robert Muellers<\/a> team conveyed the topics they wanted to talk about and it was jay sekulow who actually wrote out the questions themselves. To the extent hes criticizing the phrasing of the question that could be jay sekulow and not Robert Mueller<\/a> but even if\rit is Robert Mueller<\/a> asking what the president knew, what he was thinking, is fair game and questions that need to be asked right now because the essential element of Obstruction Of Justice<\/a> is corrupt purpose, intent, and the only way to ascertain that is to find out from President Trump<\/a> himself. This is President Trump<\/a>s opportunity to tell his side of the story. If he doesnt want to avail himself of that, the time may come when Robert Mueller<\/a> moves on without listening to him. But its important that President Trump<\/a> explain his motivations behind these decisions because thats the essence of Obstruction Of Justice<\/a>. Giuliani is proving to be the most undisciplined public thinker and speaker in the Trump Legal Team<\/a>, especially when he said something about the timing of the Stormy Daniels<\/a> payment\rthis morning when he was trying to make the case that this payment had absolutely nothing to do with the president ial campaign, and then giuliani brought up the timing of it. Lets listen to this. Imagine if that came out on october 15, 2016, in the middle of the last debate with hillary clinton. Michael, there it is. Theres the rationale for how this contribution that could be the evidence that prosecutors would want to use. Look, i actually think the more serious legal issues about the disclosure about the president reimbursed cohen gets to the fact he didnt disclose it on his Financial Disclosure<\/a> form. This was in effect a loan he had gotten from Michael Cohen<\/a>. Cohen puts up 130,000 in the first place, and then trump reimburses him. So i actually think that may be a more serious matter than the Campaign Finance<\/a>. But look, it all is going to depend on what the communications are between Michael Cohen<\/a> and the lawyer for Stormy Daniels<\/a>, and stormy\rdaniels herself. Was it discussed in the context of the campaign. Michael gets the last word. When we come back, Rudy Giuliani<\/a> did something today that donald trump has not dared to do. Rudy giuliani insulted Michael Avenatti<\/a>. We will show you what Rudy Giuliani<\/a> had to say. Well show you his attacks on Michael Avenatti<\/a>. And Michael Avenatti<\/a> is here to respond. T ve got an idea sir. Get domo. Itll connect us to everything thats going on in the company. Get it for jean whos always cold. For the sales team, it and the warehouse crew. Give us the data we need. In one place, anywhere we need it. Help us do our jobs better. With domo we can run this place together. Well thats thats your job i guess. Let your inner light loose with one a day womens. A complete multivitamin specially formulated with key Nutrients Plus<\/a> vitamin d for bone health support. Your one a day is showing. Ambulance trying to save this presidency that is about to be announced doa. I take it, look, were doing a hell of a job and the best evidence is i have Rudy Giuliani<\/a> and other people calling us names, calling me an Ambulance Chaser<\/a>. The reason is they cant deal with the facts and the evidence and the reality of the situation that they have been caught lying to the American People<\/a>, the president has been caught on Air Force One<\/a> lying to the American People<\/a>. Michael cohen is about to be indicted and hes been caught lying to the American People<\/a>. So you know what, i hope they keep calling me an Ambulance Chaser<\/a> because it proves my point were doing a hell of a job. I want to go to something Michael Isikoff<\/a> just said at the end of the segment. He said what if there was communication with Stormy Daniels<\/a>, with Stormy Daniels<\/a> counsel about getting this 130,000 settlement done when it was done because of the timing\rof the campaign. Are you aware of any communication with your client or your clients counsel, in October Of 2016<\/a>, as they were closing this Settlement Agreement<\/a> that involved the timing of the campaign . You know, our case has been pending almost two months and i made a lot of Tv Appearances<\/a> and ive gone on a lot of shows and ive been interviewed a lot of times and a lot of people have commented on that, ive never been asked this question, and its perhaps one of the most important questions and im going to answer it right now. There were Extensive Communications<\/a> between Michael Cohen<\/a> and Keith Davidson<\/a> in October Of 2016<\/a> relating to the timing of this payment and the need for the payment to be made prior to the election. Extensive communications relating to the need for the payment to be made when it was made and as it related to potential influence on the\relection. Period. Mlm and Keith Davidson<\/a> was then Stormy Daniels<\/a> lawyer . Correct everyone involved in this transaction around the time knew the importance of the payment as it related to the election. So any claim that the payment had nothing to do with the election is completely bogus. Theres no question it had everything to do with the election. Based on what you know, do you expect that in the fbi raid one of the things theyre going to find in emails or other Communication Systems<\/a> that they have seized, do you think they will actually find some of the communication, at least, between Michael Cohen<\/a> and Stormy Daniels<\/a> lawyer at the time saying this timing is about the campaign . I believe that they will find that. And i hope and pray that the\rreports of Michael Cohen<\/a> recording conversations with other parties unbeknownst to them are true. Because if he recorded conversations with Keith Davidson<\/a> in the month of October Of 2016<\/a> relating to this, there will be no question as to whether this was done in an attempt to influence the 2016 president ial election, lawrence. So if Keith Davidson<\/a> within the other lawyer in this case representing Stormy Daniels<\/a> is called to testify about this, Stormy Daniels<\/a> can release the Attorney Client<\/a> privilege that Keith Davidson<\/a> would otherwise be held by and he can be allowed to answer questions about what exactly Michael Cohen<\/a> said. Thats correct. Depending on the question and whether the privilege has been waived, et cetera. And asmsu] i said in the past w going to cooperate, we are cooperating with the u. S. Attorneys office in the Southern District<\/a> of new york. I want to be clear, lawrence, there was never any question this had anything to do with the 2016 election, and any claim it was just a coincidence or the timing doesnt prove or amount to proof that this had something to do with the election is complete and utter nonsense. This completely wipes out what Rudy Giuliani<\/a> was trying to say today even though when he was trying to say it, he himself got it wrong saying imagine what would happen if this came out in October Of 2016<\/a>, what youre telling us tonight is there was an awareness on Michael Cohen<\/a>s part that the job he was trying to do was to make sure this story was hidden during the president ial campaign in order to benefit the president ial campaign . Theres no question about that. Look, Rudy Giuliani<\/a> at one time was a really good lawyer, at one time was a really good mayor. Hes no longer ready for prime time. Hes been out of it since 1988, in terms of lawyering, anyway. This really is a Breaking News Event<\/a> here with you telling us that you are aware i want to make sure we have this straight. You are aware of clear and convincing evidence that michael\rcohen was communicating with Stormy Daniels<\/a> lawyer at the time about the urgency of getting this settlement and this payment done in October Of 2016<\/a> because it needed to be done because of the president ial campaign . Yes. Thats it. Michael cohen has added now a completely new dimension to this story. This is going to be fascinating to see how the Trump Legal Team<\/a> responds to this, because this makes everything that one could ask for, in terms of the elements necessary to define this as a campaign contribution. Absolutely, lawrence. And if the president is watching, if youd like to go on fox friends tomorrow morning, together with mr. Giuliani, i would encourage you to do that, please spend a lot of time there because we certainly would appreciate it. Its going to be fascinating to see what their answer is to this. Michael avenatti thank you very much for joining us tonight and thank you for the Breaking News<\/a> you just created here. I really appreciate it. Well have more from this Breaking News<\/a> from Michael Avenatti<\/a> when we come back. So theyre starting this years garden with miraclegro potting mix and plant food. Together, they produce three times the harvest to enjoy. And of course, to share. This soil is fresh from the forest and patiently aged to guarantee more of what matters. Every time. Three times the harvest. One powerful guarantee. Miraclegro. Guarantee. And so should you. On struts, brakes, shocks. Does he turn everything to gold . Not everything. Now get 100 back on a 2axle Brake Service<\/a> with your midas credit card. Book an appointment online. its the details that make the difference. Only botox\u00ae cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crows feet and forehead lines look better. 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Lets Stay Together<\/a> talk to your doctor or visit saveonlantus. Com. About the evidence of the motivation for the timing of the payment Michael Cohen<\/a> and Donald Trumps<\/a> motivation for the timing of the payment. There were extensive discussions in October Of 2016<\/a> when this was being negotiated relating to the fact that the payment had to be made prior to or well in advance of the president ial election, the 2016 president ial election. So this whole idea that the payment had nothing to do with the timing associated with the election or happened to just be a coincidence is completely go bogus. Everybody and their brother knew it had to do with the election, it had everything to do with make sure nothing was disclosed prior to the election. It had to do with the payment and receipt of the election, period. 80 . In harry litman, i think we see that as a product of the fbi raid because the way ive seen\rMichael Avenatti<\/a> conduct himself in the case, i have ever reason to believe what hes saying is true. When and if this evidence is revealed, what does it do to the claim this was not a Campaign Finance<\/a> violation. The first thing it does is bring cohen himself a giant step toward a Campaign Finance<\/a> violation and puts the lie to his claim that this was just a sort of a favor for a friend and he was concerned about the affect on his ydnwife. But now you add into that what giuliani said yesterday, which basically, you know, he was trying to do a delicate dance, but he is no fred astaire. And the implications of what he said is to make trump much more likely to be aware of what was\rgoing on with the payments and that means if theres strong evidence that they were to influence the campaign, that brings trump a giant step toward coconspirator liability for the same crimes. Barbara mcquade your opinion on what Michael Avenatti<\/a> revealed that Stormy Daniels<\/a> lawyer and Michael Cohen<\/a> participated in discussions about how important the timing of the payment was for the president ial campaign . I think its very significant. One of the things you have to prove is the payment was designed to influencetk the election, thats why its a campaign violation, and not some other purpose. Getting it done before the election is for that purpose. The statement is consistent with other things we know. The timing on its face has some suspicions there. But the comments from giuliani that you couldnt have this revealed on the eve of the debate, especially after the release of the access Hollywood Tape<\/a> so that is evidence that would prove this was a payment made for a campaign as opposed to some other reason. I dont know that well see this, but at no point the prosecutors will have the information and use it to build a charge against Michael Cohen<\/a> or perhaps even against President Trump<\/a> himself as harry said. Let us remember were not only talking about the evidence of the search warrant. I am her subsequent counsel. So in my role i have undertaken efforts to obtain all documents relating to mr. Davidsons representation of my client. We havent received everything yet but i received a lot of information, and i have had conversations with various\rindividuals relating to that representation. When i make these statements it Isnt Me Out There<\/a> hanging it out, im not pulling a giuliani, im pulling a avenatti, and when you do that you have facts and evidence to back up what you state as opposed to some nonsense you peddle to the American People<\/a> on fox. So when im doing that you have evidence to back up your statements. You touched on this, but when a lawyer takes over a case from another lawyer, especially a civil matter, one of the routines is handing over the case file. Its routine for the former lawyer to say heres everything we have on it. So the likelihood of you having a lot or most of this already, the evidence youre talking\rabout is actually very high. You wouldnt necessarily, as you say, be dependent on the fruits of that fbi raid. Correct, 100 . Harry, given there are the two tracks here that we can never forget about Michael Avenatti<\/a>s own ability to exact discovery in a variety of directions about this and knowing that the fbi raid has also probably collected some evidence to the effect that Michael Avenatti<\/a> is talking about here tonight, where does Rudy Giuliani<\/a> go now . The next time he wants to say this timing was coincidental, the next time anybody on that team wants to say the timing had nothing to do with the campaign. Yeah, i you know, really what hes trying to do, this sort of twostep dance because hes worried, also, about exposure in the Stormy Daniels<\/a> case but what he has managed to do, as best i can tell, is\rincrease the president s exposure on both sides because with this sort of added gloss that oh, but the president Really Didnt Know<\/a> he did know, but he didnt know. That is precarious for having the president having defrauded the Stormy Daniels<\/a> and walks into avenattis claims right there. You know, it looks like theres a scenario where he gets the worst of both worlds. I do want to add, this has not typically been something thats been vigorously prosecuted by the fec, i think Michael Isikoff<\/a> mentioned the difficulty with the edwards case but when you tie this together, it begins to look so nefarious its less the underlying Campaign Violations<\/a> rather than the match nations to keep it from the American People<\/a> that does seem to make the case seem righteous and prosecution worthy. How long have you been in possession of evidence\rindicating the motivation of this timing . A while. Okay. A while. Michael avenatti gets the last word in this segment. Thank you very much for joining us. Appreciate it. Barbara mcquade thank you for joining us. When we come back, what does it feel like to go before Robert Muellers<\/a> team for questioning . Someone just did it and says its pretty scary. Once there was an organism so small\rno one thought much of it at all. People said it just made a mess until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. They thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldnt that be cool . And thats why exxonmobil scientists think its not small at all. Energy lives here. And its time to get outside. Pack in even more adventure with audible. With the Largest Selection<\/a> of audiobooks. Audible lets you follow plot twists off the beaten track. Or discover magic when you hit the open road. With the free audible app, your stories go wherever you do. And for just 14. 95 a month you get a credit, good for any audiobook. If you dont like it exchange it any time. No questions asked. You can also roll your credits to the next month if you dont use them. So take audible with you\rthis summer. On the road. On the trail. Or to the beach. Start a 30day trial and your first audiobook is free. Cancel anytime, and your books are yours to keep forever. No matter where you go this summer make it better with audible. Text summer17 to 500500 to start listening today. So trump has surely been wondering about, worrying about, is what does it feel like to face the questions that President Trump<\/a> would get from Robert Muellers<\/a> team if the president sat down for an interview and they closed the door and the president sat there with his lawyers and with all those lawyers and investigators on the other side of the table, what would that be like . Well Michael Caputo<\/a> did that yesterday. Hes a former you Trump Campaign<\/a> official who submitted to an interview with the mueller team and everything that Michael Caputo<\/a> said about being in that room with the mueller team must have sounded very, very scary to donald trump and his lawyers. I dont think theyre convinced yet theres no russian collusion. The mueller team new more about what i did in 2016 than i knew myself. I think they know more about the Trump Campaign<\/a> than anyone that worked there. They have every single email,\ranything thats ever gone down. Theyre clearly focussed on trying to identify some russian collusion. Id say the mueller team is spear fishing. I think they believe they know where theyre going, theyre not asking a widerange of questions that seem to be unrelated. They know exactly what theyre looking for. Anybody whose name is in the mouth of the Mueller Investigation<\/a> is in peril, i think. These folks are really focussed on bringing somebody in. These folks are really focussed on bringing somebody in, wonder who that could be. When we come back, more about interviews with the mueller team. Im all about my bed. This mattress is dangerously comfortable. When i get in, i who governed thousands. Commanded armies. Yielded to no one. When i found you in my dna, i learned where my strength comes from. My name is courtney mckinney, and this is my ancestrydna story. Now with 5 times more detail than other dna tests. Order your kit at ancestrydna. 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Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum \rwe have to go there and prepare him for this silly deposition about a case in which he supposedly colluded with the russians but theres no evidence of that . I mean everybody forgets the basis of the case is dead. If anybody thinks Russia Collusion<\/a> is off the table, they havent visited with the mueller team. Back with us, matt miller, there we have caputo, who has just visited with the mueller team saying they are pressing on collusion. They have definitely still investigating collusion. They absolutely are despite the president s repeated insistence that ail thundershower liking at is obstruction, as if obstruction\ris not a serious crime in itself. I think one of the important thing people lose sight of in this case, when Special Counsel<\/a> first started rolling out indictments and guilty pleas on october 30th, he started this kind of steady tempo of activity in court where every few weeks youd get a new indictment or oi new guilty plea, up until february 23rd, when rick gates pled guilty. Since then weve had really the longest period in this case of no new activity. Almost 2 1 2 months of no new dpilty pleas, no new indictments from the Special Counsel<\/a>. Its very clear that the next big thing thats coming is at least hacking of or is at least indictments of russians for hacking, and you have to think that the piece hes trying to put together is the american side of it, the conspiracy piece, the questions about roger stone, who still has not been in to talk to the Special Counsel<\/a>, which leads you to believe hes a target status. Donald trump jr. Still not been in to talk to the Special Counsel<\/a>. Would lead you to the same conclusion. It is very much a live part of this investigation. If i was the president or anyone\rin a senior rank of that campaign, i would be very concerned about it. Harry littman, Michael Caputo<\/a>, haing been a witness, meeting with the Special Prosecutor<\/a> yesterday, saying things like they know exactly what theyre looking for and the mueller team knew more about what i did in 2016 than i knew myself. That sounds to me like the kind of Investigative Team<\/a> that ive heard other people experience in other investigations in different places in theeq countr when they go in there and a team of solid, professional federal prosecutors are ready for them. It always feels like they know more about me than i do. Yes. But i would say this is, you know, even more. This is probably the finest prosecutorial teem ever aassembled. When those people come into the witness room, they confront agents and attorneys who have binders like this with maybe 150 documents behind them that they\rknow completely cold, and they will refer to during the course of the questioning it is brutal. They have figured out everything in advance that they want to say, and of course they this is the \u00f7q em for trump as well. They have a wealth of information from other witnesses including cooperating witnesses, and the person In The Hot Seat<\/a> doesnt know what that is. This is really a professional operation that justifiably will terrify people who are on the other side of the chair. Matt miller, the legal team for everyone involved trying to defend these team does not know what the Special Prosecutor<\/a> has. Michael avenatti just really highlighted that kind of thing tonight when it turns out Michael Avenatti<\/a> has known for some time that there is extensive communication about\rthe timing of thebte payment to Stormy Daniels<\/a> at the time, saying that this is about the campaign. Thats what Michael Cohen<\/a> was telling Stormy Daniels<\/a> lawyer then. And no one knew that Michael Cohen<\/a> was telling Stormy Daniels<\/a> lawyer that. You know, Rudy Giuliani<\/a> probably did not know until tonight that Michael Cohen<\/a> was telling Stormy Daniels<\/a> lawyer that then. Yeah, thats exactly right. For each one of these witnesses, if theyre getting ready for these interviews and their attorneys are getting ready for them, they have access to their emails. Th7 [t access to their own documents and to their own recollections, but they dont know other documents that the Special Counsel<\/a> has red. They dont know what other witnesses have told the Special Counsel<\/a> about meetings that they sat in. So they go in prepared to give their version of events, but when theyre confronted with other pieces of evidence that theyre not aware, it can be very unsettling. I think one of the things to remember, harrycoc talked about this being such a great prosecutorial team. I worked with a number of these people. Im sure harry did as well. Theyre really a doj allstar team. When you look jpw at the caliber that team versus the caliber of the people on the other side, lets remember this was not the top tier of republican talent that was working on the Trump Campaign<\/a>. These are cast offs and has beens and people who are on their good day are not at their best. Facing that team is a tough, tough, challenge for them. Thank you both for joining us. Really appreciate it. Tonights last word is next. But ive got an idea sir. Get domo. 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Com\rheres something we havent done before. Tonights last word goes to Michael Avenatti<\/a>. Were going to show you the Breaking News<\/a> that he delivered in this hour as a guest on this program about the communication between Donald Trumps<\/a> lawyer, Michael Cohen<\/a>, and Stormy Daniels<\/a> then lawyer Keith Davidson<\/a> when they were arranging the payment to Stormy Daniels<\/a> in 2016 of that 130,000. There were Extensive Communications<\/a> between Michael Cohen<\/a> and Keith Davidson<\/a> in October Of 2016<\/a> relating to the timing of this payment and the need for the payment to be made prior to the election. Extensive communications relating to the need for the payment to be made when it was made and as it related to potential influence on the election, period. Michael avenatti gets tonights last word. There will be more analysis of","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"https:\/\/vimarsana.com\/images\/vimarsana-bigimage.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240618T12:35:10+00:00"}