Where would the Trump Presidency where would the Mueller Investigation be today . Would there be a Mueller Investigation today . You know, and it is remarkable given we now with a couple yearss distance we now know more about the interactions between president obama and president elect trump at the time. And it wasnt like obama was giving him a piece of his mind and telling him how he should govern and what he should do in terms of policy and everything. He seemed to have basically come with two things, the north korea thing is bigger than you think it is, and b, dont hire mike flynn. We can debate how he dealt with a, but b has turned out to be something that may end up being the dominant story of his presidency. And possibly the single worst decision he made as president elect choosing Michael Flynn as his National Security advisor. We will find out. Today in the National Cathedral in washington, d. C. At the state funeral of george h. W. Bush five president s sat in the front row. And from the alter one of them was told that he is corroding, rotting away inside. He never hated anyone. He knew what his mother and my mother always knew, hatred corrodes the container its carried in. The most decent and honorable person i ever met was my friend george bush. One of natures noble men. Hatred corrodes the container its carried in. And there sitting in front of former republican senator Allen Simpson in the front row is a man who is nothing but hatred, filled with hatred. In Allen Simpsons view a corroding container of a man. When Donald Trumps time comes and he is being remembered by people gathered in a cathedral, no one, not one person will step up to a microphone and say he never hated anyone. No one will step up and say he was the most decent and honorable person i ever met. No one will say he was one of natures nobleman. No one will say that. I know Allen Simpson. I worked with him when ofsthen democratic staff on the United States senate, and he was one of the most Reasonable Republicans with whom we mostly disagreed on policy but worked with every day. Allen simpson knew that by saying george bush never hated anyone and by saying hatred corrodes the container its carried in, his words would be interpreted as a direct reference to donald trump. Allen simpson knew that his words would be taken as praise for george bush and at the same time as condemnation for the president who has publicly spewed more hatred than any president in history. Donald trump had to take his seat in the front pew of the National Cathedral today, the day after special prosecutor Robert Mueller revealed some of the reasons why he is recommending no prison time for Donald Trumps first National Security advisor Michael Flynn, who has pleaded guilty to one count of lying to the fbi. The trumps had to sit beside the obamas today. The only time donald trump and barack obama sat as close together in a private conversation is when president obama invited president elect trump into the oval office. And when the door was closed president obama warned donald trump not to hire Michael Flynn as his National Security advisor. Donald trump had to sit in that front row today with the other president s, with donald trump drowning in the countless humiliations he has brought upon himself as president including recurring proofs that he is the most ignorant president in history. Donald trump had to sit there in the front row of the National Cathedral covered in the humiliation he has earned thanks to Stormy Daniels description of his pursuit of her and the federal criminal case in which donald trump is named as an unindicted coconspirator for arranging illegal payments to Stormy Daniels. Its hard to know which of Donald Trumps many humiliations weighs on him the most. But today sitting in that front row with president obama on a day when Michael Flynn is once again dominating the headlines, it must have been extra painful for donald trump that barack obama was sitting in the i told you so position on Michael Flynn. Where would the Trump Presidency be today if donald trump was smart enough to have followed Barack Obamas advice and not hire Michael Flynn as his National Security advisor . Leading off our discussion tonight joyce vance, former federal prosecutor. Jill winebanks, and Jason Johnson, the politics editor at the root. Com. All three are msnbc contributors. And i want to begin with this political point, jason, so i want to go to too much had and that is Alan Simpsons words today were surely chosen carefully knowing there was a double intandra there, but to say things with donald trump sitting right in front of him saying how he never hated anyone, how it corrodes a person, is something i know alan simpson deliberately intended to apply to donald trump. And im sure americans watching that today had to think about that comparison about Donald Trumps relationship to hatred and hating people versus president bushs. Yeah, at this point between, you know, Aretha Franklin and john mccain and president bush, i dont think were going to have a large funeral in america that does not include criticism of President Trump at some point or another. But i hope to the degree that he goes to these events as a pouting surly 70yearold, which is usually how he seems to behave when hes in the room, that he takes some of the advice thats being given in the intention its being given. Which is look, we all want you to do a better job. But, lawrence, i think the key thing is this. If theres one thing we understand about this president is its his desperate need for attention and praise and some attempt of creating a legacy where hell be looked at as a great man. And perhaps in sitting down and listening how people talked about george bush, for all the many criticisms i have for him and his policy, maybe donald trump may pick up a Little Something of how he should behave as president so when he passes away there may be possibly a room full of former officials who may speak some words about him. Although right now i dont think its going to happen. I want to go back to that oval Office Discussion that president obama had with president elect trump and imagine if donald trump took the advice seriously and followed that advice and did not hire Michael Flynn, it is possible we would not have a Mueller Investigation tonight because james comey was fired only after donald trump asked him to go easy on Michael Flynn. If there was no Michael Flynn case to go easy on, where would we be now . I think thats an interesting speculation and it is of course possible because anything is possible. But given the type of people that donald trump has hired and surrounded himself with throughout the campaign, the transition and in the administration, its quite likely that someone else would have been the cause. If it wasnt donald trump asking comey not to go after flynn, maybe it would have been dont go after papadopoulos, dont go after gates, dont go after who knows who it would have been. There were so many that were under investigation, rightly so, because of criminal acts that they have committed. You could not have had the number of indictments and the number of defendants, the number of guilty pleas, the number of convictions, if it wasnt for the fact that so many people are guilty. So i think it would have happened anyway. It just would have been delayed, and it would have been wonderful. He had two opportunities to act. Of course, first was president obama, but then remember the acting attorney general sally yates came and warned him right away, and he didnt fire him. He waited 18 days and let him stay in office as his National Security advisor knowing that he was compromised by the russian government, which only indicates to me that there is more to Donald Trumps being compromised by the russian government, that he didnt care and he kept him on anyway. His problems began during the transition and these phone calls he was having with the russians during the transition. And so presumably at some point some fbi was going to get interested in those phone calls during the transition, so even if donald trump in the end did not appoint him as National Security advisor, there probably at some point would have been an investigative process that involved Michael Flynn and might just have us where we are tonight. I think thats absolutely right. The idea that you can have as an american citizen phone calls with the Russian Ambassador and not expect those phone calls to be subject to some kind of surveillance in washington is a little bit iffy. We know that those are the sorts of calls that at least theres intelligence about the content of. So that forces us to consider the question of what did flynn know or what did flynn think he knew that would protect him from likely discovery of what he was up to at some point . That i think is a very interesting unanswered question. Lets listen to what the president said about why he fired Michael Flynn, and were going back to february 2017 because reconsidering these words tonight given all that we know since then makes this the president s answers to these questions all the more interesting. Lets watch this. Did you direct mike flynn to discuss sanctions with the Russian Ambassador. No, i didnt. Prior to your inauguration and would you have fired him no, i fired him because of what he said to mike pence, very simple. Mike was doing his job. He was calling countries and his counter parts. So it certainly would have been okay with me if he did it. I would have directed him because thats his job. No, i didnt direct him, but i would have directed him if he didnt do it, okay . Jill, you want to try and make sense of what we just heard . Well, making sense of much of what donald trump or his legal team, particularly rudy giuliani, says is very difficult. But its his typical defense. I didnt do it, but if i did do it, its perfectly legal. If he did it, its legal. But he didnt do it, and it would have been okay if he did it. Its really nonsense. He shouldnt have been doing it. All of these things that he says are okay hes convincing a certain portion of america that it is okay. And i just hope anyone listening to this show knows that it isnt okay. You cant have private citizens, and remember during the transition they were just private citizens. They were not representing the government of america. The Obama Administration was still the government of america. And you dont transition until noon on the day of inauguration. And its wrong to have any private citizen interfering with the conduct of foreign affairs. And anyone who is about to become president and or the National Security advisor should know that and should not engage in that kind of conduct. So it makes no sense. And joyce vance, the questions roca asked are certainly questions wed want the response to. He said among other things the defendants assistance to the gump was substantial, the defendant has assisted with several ongoing investigations. So thats certainly more than one investigation and probably at least three or more than three. And one of the questions that they need to get from Michael Flynn is did the president tell you to discuss sanctions with the russians, especially since we now know through the Michael Cohen case that the president was interested in doing business in moskow and creating a trump tower in moskow and was presumably still interested in doing that while he was president of the United States. That question would probably have been close to if not at the top of muellers list of questions that he wanted to ask after flynn started to cooperate. And we have to stop for a minute and think about what flynn has been charged with. Hes been charged with making false statements to the government. So muellers not taking any of his words at face value. And we see from the sentencing memoranda that flynn was able to provide documents and also communications. And so at this point it seems logical to assume that however mueller has answered that question, hes not just relying on what flynn tells him, hes relying on documentary evidence that flynn can provide as well to back up the story hes told. We have to squeeze in a break here. Thank you for starting us off tonight. And when we come back, did Michael Flynn talk to the special prosecutor about the trump family, and what could he have told them about Donald Trumps children . Thats next. 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Which plug in to extend the wifi even farther, past anything that stands in its way. Well almost anything. Leave no room behind with xfi pods. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Click or visit a retail store today. With each new court filing by special prosecutor Robert Mueller the legal danger for those closest to President Trump seems to ratchet up. Today the senior legal analyst for fox news predicted the indictment of a member of the trump family. So do you think that any of trumps inner circles now going to get indicted . Yes. I dont know who, but i do know donald, jr. Has told friends he expects to be indicted. Do you expect to be indicted . Yes. He has very solid sources on that side of the world. Last nights filing in the Michael Flynn case might have other members of the trump family worried. According to the filing, Michael Flynn, has, quote, provided Financial Assistance in a criminal investigation separate to a the special prosecutors investigation. That section is entirely redacted. The filing also says Michael Flynn, quote, provided first information about the content and context of interactions between the Transition Team and russian government officials. Those include Michael Flynns phone call with the Russian Ambassador in december 2016 asking russia to help defeat a u. N. Resolution on israel. Flynn admitted he lied to the fbi about that conversation. He also told the fbi he contacted the Russian Ambassador at the direction of, quote, a very Senior Member of the president ial Transition Team. We know based on nbc news reporting that that very Senior Member of the trump Transition Team was Jared Kushner, Donald Trumps soninlaw. Joining our discussion now, peter zeidenberg, a former federal prosecutor and former deputy counsel for Scooter Libby in the george w. Bush administration. And also joining us is nika oyang, a former staff member of the House Armed Services committee. Peter, the Jared Kushner liability seems to be the one that first comes to mind when considering what trump family members might be in jeopardy now. Oh, i would think so. And i think as frustrating as it is for those of us who are watching all of this to get that redacted filing, can you imagine how frustrating it is for the people who are really in je