Transcripts For MSNBCW The Rachel Maddow Show 20190515 : vim

MSNBCW The Rachel Maddow Show May 15, 2019

You get a subpoena, you get a subpoena, and everybody gets a subpoena. Everybodys got one under their seats right now. Since the special counsels investigation was ended, under circumstances we still dont totally explain still dont totally understand and since the special Counsel Robert Mueller submitted his report about that investigation, weve been living in this very specific era. Right . This very specific world of confrontation. I mean, the president and the Trump Administration had an initial burst of claiming vindication and exoneration by that report and the attorney general characterizing the report in ways that couldnt be checked by anybody, but that whole era lasted, like, five seconds. Since then, they have bolted themselves down into an increasingly hardened effort to try to block access to mueller, himself, to block access to muellers findings, to block access to witnesses who testified to mueller, to block the production of documents that were used in muellers investigation or that pertained to his findings or to subject of his investigation, and to Block Congress from obtaining any information, any documents or access to any witnesses, that could help Congress Follow up on what mueller did. And, importantly, that could help Congress Follow up on what we now know mueller did not investigate. I mean, before the Trump Administration, it was pretty much a settled matter as to whether or not a white house and a president had to comply with court orders and subpoenas. I mean, yeah, executive branches and congresses always fight about all sorts of things, right . And all president s try to keep some stuff secret. But there was a Unanimous Supreme Court decision that sort of teed up the whole cataclysmic end of the watergate scandal, right . There was u. S. V. Nixon, unanimous decision by the Supreme Court which said, yeah, president s do have to respond to subpoenas and court orders. Before now, that has not been considered one of the more controversial decisions in american jurisprudence. Everybody sort of thinks of that as a settled matter, right . But now, we are in this era where we have got this incredible clash happening, right . Since the Mueller Report was submitted such as it is, since the Mueller Investigation ended, since the countries had to decide what to do with the end of that investigation and the consequences of what mueller has been ali lielie liellowed to sa were in this moment where according to this white house, all voluntary requests for information and testimony are to be denied. That is why its raining subpoenas now and now weve got the president and the white house trying to mount a legal war effort to try to stop everybody from complying with all subpoenas, too. At least for as long as they can get away with it. Well, one of these subpoena fights was potentially resolved today in a sort of unusual way. Its about the president s eldest son and namesake, donald trump jr. , he testified to senate intel among other things about the trump tower moscow project in 2017. There are indications that the contours of his testimony very much matched what Michael Cohen also testified to congress about when it came to the trump tower moscow project. Now, cohen later admitted in court that his testimony was false. Thats part of why hes serving time in federal prison right now as we speak. Did donald trump jr. Tell the same lies to the Intelligence Committee about trump tower moscow . If so, why was Michael Cohen prosecuted for that and donald trump jr. Has not been, right . Its not an unreasonable question in these circumstances where Michael Cohen is literally locked up right now in a federal prison cell for that and donald trump jr. Is still out in the wild with these questions still outstanding about the veracity of his testimony on that same topic. But the Intelligence Committee, the senate Intelligence Committee, they did at least try to arrange for donald trump jr. To come back in and clarify his testimony. There were reportedly protracted negotiations about him coming back in on a voluntary basis. He reportedly stood the committee up and refused to come back in on a voluntary basis. Thats what led to this recent subpoena ordering him to testify, whether he wanted to or not. Now, the white house and donald trump jr. Have been signaling that they would resist that subpoena among all the other subpoenas they want resisted as well, sh but now tonight, they do appear to have come to some sort of negotiated accommodati n accommodation. Donald trump jr. Will reportedly appear behind closed doors before the senate Intelligence Committee next month under a new agreement in which the number of topics hes asked about the amount of time he has to testify will both be limited by agreement in advance. Thats the kind of agreement, right, limiting the total amount of time, limiting the topics you can be asked about. Thats the type of agreement you would usually think would be negotiated in the context of a voluntary request for someone to appear, right . You wouldnt expect the committee with subpoena power to make that kind of agreement. Right . To agree to those kinds of limitations and accommodations. Frankly, with subpoena power, they have the ability to compel you to comply. They have the ability to compel you to show up and testify without any terms and accommodations. Why would they negotiate . But, hey, this is a trump Family Member and so special treatment, i suppose, is a given here. And incidence tally, that meanse Trump White House and trump family have been giving a reward for the blanket stance theyve taken since the Mueller Report was submitted in which they say all subpoenas should be defied. Apparently, that stance already earned them relief from some of the things that donald trump jr. Would otherwise have been compelled to testify about, apparently that stance has also earned them a time limitation on the things on the amount of time that hell have to spend testifying. So we got the news today about donald junior, the resolution of that subpoena fight, at least it appears that way. End on ta and on the heels of that news we got late today about donald trump jr. And senate intelligence, we also got remarkable new news from the other Intelligence Committee, from the one in the house. News that lawyers working for President Trump and the Trump Organization and for the president s adult children, their lawyers, themselves, may be on the hook or may at least compelled to spill when it comes to one of the alleged obstruction of justice efforts thats described in some detail in muellers redacted report. This is from volume 2, page 134, of muellers report. After the media began questioning trumps connections to russia, Michael Cohen promoted a party line that publicly distanced trump from russia and asserted he had no business there. Cohen continued to adhere to that party line in 2017 when Congress Asked him to provide documents and testimony in its russia investigation. In an attempt to minimize the president s connections to russia, cohen submitted a letter to congress falsely stating he only briefed trump on the trump tower moscow project three times, that he did not consider asking trump to travel to russia, that cohen had not received a response to an outreach he made to the russian government, and, he testified, the project ended in 2016 before the first Republican Caucus or primary. None of those things were true. While working on that false congressional statement, cohen had extensive discussions with the president s personal counsel, who according to cohen, said cohen should not contradict the president. Cohen eventually entered into a joint Defense Agreement with the president and other individuals who were part of the russia investigation. Cohens false statement to congress was circulated in advance in advance to sorry, cohens false statement to congress was circulated in advance to and edited by members of that joint Defense Agreement. Before statement was finalized, early drafts contained a sentence stating the building project led me to make limited contacts with russian government officials. But in the final version of the statement, that line was dele d deleted. Cohen thought he was told it was a decision of the joint Defense Agreement to delete the sentence about his contacts with russian government officials. Cohen did not push back on the deletion. Cohen said the release of his opening remarks was intended to shape the narrative and let other people who might be witnesses know what cohen was saying so they could follow the same message. Cohen recalled that on september 20th, after cohens opening remarks had been printed by the media, the president s personal counsel told him that the president was pleased with his trump tower moscow statement. President was pleased with it. Cohen stated that the president s personal counsel responded it was not necessary to elaborate or include these details about sorry, the president stated sorry, go back to that for a second. Cohen stated the president s personal counsel advised him ahead of his testimony that it was not necessary to elaborate or include some of the details that he had planned to give about his contacts with the russian government and President Trumps notice about the trump tower moscow project. So, this is all whats described in the Mueller Report about Michael Cohen and his testimony about the trump tower moscow project. The president was very pleased with his statement to congress. Right . The president was happy with that statement, with what he told congress about trump tower mosco moscow. What the president was so pleased for we later find out, of course, was a false statement about congress to trump tower moscow for which Michael Cohen is now in prison. What cohen is alleging here, what cohen told mueller is the president s personal counsel, jay sekulow, and other lawyers involved in the joint Defense Agreement, specifically shaped his statement, including taking out the stuff about his contacts with the russian government. Well, Michael Cohen is already paying for that. He is in prison paying for that false statement. But what about the other people who were allegedly involved in crafting that false statement for him in that act of obstruction, right . Well, thats why all of those lawyers working for the president and the Trump Organization and the president s adult children, thats why all of those lawyers may soon get subpoenas under their seats, too. If there were others that were participating in that act of obstruction of justice, if there were others that were knowing of that false statement, participated in the drafting of that false statement, we need to know about it, we need to expose it and we need to deter other people from coming before our committee and lying. Mr. Cohens testimony was important but also the documentary record is important, and it raises profound questions about whether Michael Cohen, alone, without assistance, without encouragement, would take it upon himself to mislead our committee about Donald Trumps pursuit of money in russia during the campaign. That was Intelligence Committee chairman adam schiff today speaking to reporters after the news broke that his committee demanded documents and testimony from jay sekulow, the president s personal counsel, as described in many the Mueller Report. Also, alan fuderfess, alan garten and abbe lowell. Used for a criminal and corrupt purpose to get him to lie to congress about the trump tower moscow deal. Those lawyers are being told to hand over documents and also to testify, themselves. What we learned today is back in march those lawyers were told by the Intelligence Committee that they needed to hand over documents related to that alleged obstruction of justice. Documents related to the drafting of Michael Cohens false statement to congress. Documents about the joint Defense Agreement. Documents and communications about whether pardons were offered or discussed for cohen or other witnesses. Statements about the trump tower moscow project. Tons of stuff. The document request, itself, is sort of stunning. I mean, even just the pardon part of it is amazing. I mean, these lawyers are being told, ill just read you the pardon part of it, theyre being told to hand over documents or communications about, a president ial prepardon, global pardon, pardon or other pardonrelated concept, for or related to Michael Cohen, jared kushner, donald trump jr. , ivanka trump, the Trump Organization, paul manafort, michael flynn, roger stone, pete schiller, rhona graff, felix sater, or any witness who testified before the committee or asked to testify before the committee. Discussions of a global pardon, a prepardon, a potential pardon for the president s secretary and bodyguard . I mean, what we learned today is that this document request, and the request for testimony by those lawyers, who, again, here, basically accused by Michael Cohen of engaging in criminal behavior, themselves, i mean, this demand from the committee, it started in march, it was rejected by these lawyers. Its been reiterated by the committee now and now it looks like were on the brink of these lawyers being subpoenaed. As the New York Times puts it tonight, the lawyers have so far balked at the committees request, but congressman schiff is prepared to issue subpoenas to compel cooperation if necessary. You know, i think it has long been assumed that the president might have a kind of tripwire when it comes to investigations, legal liability, getting too close to his adult children. I mean, in this case, according to reporting from vanity fair and the New York Times, one of the allegations at issue here for which theres apparently some sort of documentary trail, is the allegation that lawyer abbe lowell specifically told cohen that he should Tell Congress ivanka trump had essentially no knowledge of trump tower moscow. According to Michael Cohen, that wasnt true. According to cohen, ivanka trump was regularly briefed on trump tower moscow. Well, if as cohen alleges, abbe lowell was involved in telling Michael Cohen to lie to congress, specifically about the involvement of ivanka trump in that scheme, i mean, that feels like the sort of thing that could trip 50 tripwires all at once. Right . Thats sensitive on a lot of different levels. But that is apparently now what the house Intelligence Committee is chasing down and we are being told to expect that that may be in the form of subpoenas soon. We are also told by the Intelligence Committee tonight that as of this evening, they are in negotiations with the Justice Department over yet another subpoena that they issued last week for the redacted material thats been cut out of the Mueller Report, and for the counterintelligence information and findings and evidence that were turned up by muellers investigation but not included in the version of muellers report that weve all seen. Now, the deadline for the Justice Department is comply with that subpoena for the unredacted report and the underlying evidence and all the intelligence information turned up by the investigation, that deadline on that subpoena is tomorrow. We dont know exactly what it means that the committees in negotiations with the Justice Department tonight over the terms of that subpoena and that tomorrow deadline. The last time we were in this circumstance, though, it was a subpoena from the Judiciary Committee which was being ignored by the attorney general and in that case, the response was that the attorney general was swiftly subject to a contempt vote. So well see how this develops, this may very well go that same direction. Its worth watching this overnight into tomorrow morning, though. A subpoena deadline is a real deadline and that deadline is tomorrow, and the conflict over this one, i mean, this particular subpoena that the attorney general seems poised to defy, this one because its from the Intelligence Committee and because its for that specific information theyre asking for, this one may finally shed some light on whats emerging since muellers investigation was ended as kind of the biggest open question that remains about what happened with that investigation. Right . The Intelligence Committee has issued a subpoena to obtain the counterintelligence information and the foreign intelligence information that muelle

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