It is at the center of a wristle blower complaint filed by a member of the Intelligence Community. It started a week ago when the chair of the house intelligence adam schiff revealed that the Inspector General received a whistleblower complaint. And he deemed the complaint credible and urgent, but Donald Trumps director of National Intelligence was refusing to share it with dock as required by law. Something congressman schiff said had never happened before. A few days ago we got the first inkling of why. It concerned his communications with a foreign leader including a promise that was regarded as something so troubling that it prompted an official in the u. S. Intelligence community to file the complaint. Yesterday it was reported that the complaint had something to do with trump and ukraine. The intersection of donald trump and ukraine raises a lot of implications. Peoples attention turned to a phone call that trump had with the president of the ukraine a couple of weeks before the wristle blower complaint was filed. That call is already under investigation by House Democrats examining whether or not trump and his attorney sought to manipulate the Ukrainian Government into helping trumps Reelection Campaign by digging up dirt on joe biden. All while trump was holding up 250 million in military aide to the ukraine. After that news broke last night, Rudy Giuliani made a colorful appearance on cnn. He denied asking officials to investigation joe bide p, and then he admitted that he did. Giuliani said that if trump pressured ukraine, that would have been totally fine. But it was apparently he recovered enough to speak with a ukrainian businessman who is helping him dig for dirt on joe biden in the ukraine. Anyway, sure enough the scenarios so heavily overshadowed by giuliani begin breaking across one news outlet after another after another. The wall street journal at the first report. President trump in a july phone call repeatedly pressured the president of ukraine to investigate joe bidens son. Urging ukraines leader about eight times to work with juliani on a probe that could hamper his potential opponents. He reported that is at the center of the complaint that the Trump Administration is now withholding from the law in violation of congress. The New York Times quickly matched that recording going only so far as two describe that phone call as part of the clant. Nbc news confirmed only that the complaint concerns a call that trump had with a foreign leader. It is also important to note that all of the reports today from the journal, the post, and the times, they all say that the president did not discuss the military aide to the ukraine being held up at that time. Questions have emerged about whether mr. Trumps push for an quire ri was behind a hold on the military aide for the ukraine. They suspended the aide in early july. Mr. Trump did not discuss the aide in the july 25 call. So yes, as the times says, questions have emerged. We know the white house held up military aid that is intended to help the ukraine stand up with russia. We have reports that the president pressured ukraine to have a political rival. The question now, the question that reporters were furiously fitting into, whether or not that is an explanation or not, the effect may be the same. That is what they told Andrea Mitchell today. Giuliani said he is trying to get the ukrainians to meddle. He says he had no intent to do that but he was very concerned about why the security aide was being cut off and even if there was not this explicit promise, that was certainly the impression. They could not help but connect these demands they were getting, and the sudden surprising cut off of security haid. That scenario is scary and repugnant on its own terms no matter who the president is and what country he is putting the screws on. The ukraine is not just any country. They are at the center of the events a. They gave us this presidency in the first place. It feels like we cannot do the full scope of this story without acknowledging the context of this year. Ukraine informs chaos. Protests designed to force out the democratic leader. The protests turned a fullon revolution. The leader was pushing them closer to russia and further from nato was forced to flee the country. Russia out so much. Ukraine is the largest country in europe after russia. It has more than a 1,000 mile border with russia and it sits right between russia and western europe. Right after protesters tossed out their putin allied president , putin seized crimea. It is the First Time SinceWorld War Two since the borders of a country in europe were changed by outside military forces. In response, waging a low grade war, western nations lead by the United States under president barack obama took steps to punish russia. There were strict new sanctions against the oil and gas industry that really hurt the countrys fragile economy. It could have been a lucrative deal. The g 8 countries decided to become the g 7. The u. S. Congress passed a military action. Vladimir putin really, really, really wanted those sanctions lifted. They were really painful, really hurting him politically at home. Which is a problem. Even if you prevent anyone else from running against you, you can only hold on to power for so long if your economy is in the tank and your people blame you for it. Then from the mueller report, every notable contact the Trump Campaign had was at sanctions. The tower meeting between donald trump junior and the kremlin connected lawyer, mike flynns phone calls with the Russian Ambassador which he pleaded guilty about, those were about sanctions. A secret ukrainian peace plan, they were reportedly hand delivering to Michael Flynn at the white house, that was also basically just a plan to lift sanctions on russia. The mysterious meeting that happened between eric prince and the head of a russian fund. They tried to build Nuclear Power plants all over the middle east was also a plan, wait for it, to get rid of sanctions. And who should pop up again but Paul Manafort now running Donald Trumps campaign after a years long career working for the Ukrainian Political Party that wanted to bring ukraine closer to russia. And bringing ukraine closer to russia is the key here if is the flip side of the sanctions coin. The sanctions on russia are about ukraine. If ukraine stops fighting with russia or the United States decides they no longer care if russia invaded ukraine, that is the path that leads to the sanctions being dropped. Now just generally americas posture toward the ukraine is all about russia and putin. A strong independent well supported well funded ukraine is a good partner is standing up to putin. A ukraine that does not have good relations with the United States is what putin would prefer. All of that, that is the necessary context for understanding what it means that this complaint scandal may center on Trumps Communications with ukraine. Because this pressure that donald trump is reportedly putting on ukraine, to dig up dirt on his political rivals comes at the same time that he appears to be trying to reverse all of the measures that the United States took starting in 2014 to punish russia for invading ukraine. We have seen trump repeatedly ask for russia to be put back in the g 7. And what russia is doing has not changed at all. We saw trump block the delivery of that military aid that is meant to help russia to stand up to russia and only release the aide under bipartisan pressure. They are also shoring up defenses against russia, an initiative that started against the administration. Trump is using that money for his border wall instead. Those things almost all insome way or another connect to ukraine. Dropping sanctions, getting back into the g 8, blocking money or webs going to support yew cane, and yes, the whistleblower complaint in the Intelligence Community, that trump is trying to get a foreign leader to do his dirty work for him, that is upsetting on his own terms but it cant be separated from the foundational scandal of the presidency. Joining me now is the former Russian Ambassador. Always great to talk to you. Thank you for having me. Can we go back . This ukraine part. Can you talk about russias obsession of undoing what president obama did with University Together to sanction them . I thought you just did an excellent job, that is a great contextual way to put that in a bigger paragraph. Absolutely, the things they did are things that Vladimir Putin is trying to roll back ever since it happened. It is sanctions, support for nato, and support for ukraine. They are trying to lift sanctions, it is part of the reason he supported candidate trump in 2016. We know that they want to push back on that assistance to nato and you rightly pointed out that President Trump himself has now done that, and then this third piece is a port for ukraine. I was one of the people that gave credit to the Trump Administration that is sustaining support for the campaign, but they went even further. They provided lethal assistance and i gave them credit for that. That is why this is sufficient an ironic tragic twist that the one thing that i think President Trump did right visavis russia he is now using to trade for something for his personal gain. But the bigger context is important, all of these things. And on every front, President Trump has been pulling back. Ken, you draw a line, i still recall in the campaign, in the convention in cleveland, the one change made to the republican platform was pulled back. You add that to the distan and the distaste for Angela Merkel and the other members of nato, this was all one big rubix cube that fits together in some way . Yes, and im glad you brought that up. I allegedly Paul Manafort was behind that change, taking out giving lethal assistance to the ukraine. The policy overroad the president. They said no we have to go forward with this. But there has been tension from the beginning between President Trump and his National Security team. With respect to ukraine and russia. Here i see the president using one of those things as a chip to try to help him for something very personal and this is not, i want to underscore, not in Americas National interest to have the president of the United States betraying things. We know that other than the fact that he is a former standup comedian, what way does he fall on this meter of being closer at trying to be closer to russia or trying to be closer to russia. Could donald trump have to actually get him, if he were amenable to interfere in the election and hurt one of Donald Trumps elections. He also has a Brand New Parliament that was just elected, and this is a moment, a Pivotal Moment in ukrainian history where they might breakthrough to move this way and that is why when the president of the United States, instead of embracing that, instead of saying we support you 100 , he says instead i want to do this little trade with you, the little kind of the trades we have been telling the ukrainians to stop doing for years or deck tads sends a very bad signal, and even if the military assistance was not directly connected as a quid pro quo to investigate the Vice President s son, remember the United States is the biggest most important country in the free world. And that in and of itself creates leverage. He cant just dismiss a request from the president of the United States. And i just think it is a terrible tragedy for American National interests. Ily leave it to people more expert than i. This is not the way to conduct foreign policy. Thank you so much, appreciate your time tonight. Sure, thank you for having me. More on this next, including what all of the intrigue means for the whistle lower that came forward, stay right there. It has three times the cleaning power of the leading spray to dissolve kitchen grease on contact. And its great for bathrooms just keep pumping the power nozzle to release a continuous burst of mist and make quick work of big jobs. It even works on stainless steel. It cuts through 100 of dirt, grease and grime. Available with easytoswap refills. To get three times the cleaning power, try clean freak from mr. Clean. Why accept it frompt an incompyour allergy pills . E else. Flonase sensimist. Nothing stronger. Nothing gentler. Nothing lasts longer. Flonase sensimist. 24 hour nondrowsy allergy relief walking a dog can add thousands walking this many . Day. That can be rough on pams feet, knees, and lower back. Thats why she wears dr. Scholls orthotics. 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If you had any doubt about the whistleblower, last night right here, rachael put a super fine chilling point on it. Somewhere out there right now in america is a whistleblower from the Intelligence Community. Who has gone through channels and done things by the book. It is a serious and urgent matter that reportedly involves the president. His communications with foreign leaders, some sort of promise that he has made to foreign leaders and reportedly some shenanigans with the ukraine. Bit by bit it is coming to the surface and hour by hour the Trump Administration seems to be fixing their cross hairs on the whistleblower. We still do not know anything about the identity of the whistle blower in this case. But we do know that retaliation is a real concern. The act is supposed to protect them from that. The acting director for National Intelligence had them point out how seriously they took the effort to protect lawful whistleblowers. Promising that the intelligence chief will not permit the complainant to be subject to any retaliation or adverse consequence. So basically, trust us. Nothing will happen to the whistle blower. Everything is fine. To which the Intelligence CommunityInspector GeneralMichael Atkinson that, yeah, but thats not the way it usually goes. It not what was previously available to whistle blowers in the complainants situation. They were consulted about how to handle this complaint he hears that it is a highly partisan person. How much jeopardy has this whistle blower taken on . Can another branch of government Like Congress offer any protection . In terms of the president leaning on ukraine to investigate a political rival does anything stand in his way. Matt, great to have you with us today. So that is the question as i have been watching adam schiff on Rachel Maddow and talking with others, cant Congress Protect this person . There is a law in place that is supposed to protect them, but that is not being followed right now. The law that is supposed to take this complaint straight to congress. Is there anyone to protect this person . Not really. If the president decides to retaliate it is tough for congress to do something. You cant fire someone without cause. That is not the only way a whistleblower can be retaliated they can be denied promotions, see their job dry up. I think when you have the president attack the whistleblower publicly the way he did today, with the attack that is t is highly partisan, it sends a signal of what he thinks about this person. You dont have to look too far into the past to see how the bureaucracy has behaved. Look at the justice didnt where he attacked andy mcgabe and all of the people gone now. One of them will be prosecuted in the coming weeks. It is ultimately very tough. Donald trump did of course attack this whistleblower calling them highly partisan and saying they dont know who it is. He also attacked congressman adam schiff. Do you have confidence that, first of all, this whole situation should not have been taken to the white house, but it was, do you trust that no one has given donald trump access to this informat