Transcripts For MSNBCW The Rachel Maddow Show 20191112 : vim

Deal and a happy occasion to congratulate and thank and honor and, again, celebrate our veterans, so happy veterans day. Even though today is a federal holiday and a big one, the news cycle did not skip a beat, either. We are steaming, of course, toward the start of the first public impeachment hearings on the ukraine scandal the day after tomorrow. Wednesday morning. And theres a lot to catch up on in terms of that scandal and the developments around impeachment as we head toward that public hearing. It feels like its kind of piling up with each passing hour, so lets just lets just jump right in. And you know me, i always like to start with the weird stuff. So, lets bring back my good friends, lev and igor. Hi, guys. These two gentlemen have been indicted by federal prosecutors in new york in a criminal case that is unfolding alongside the impeachment proceedings that are happening on capitol hill involving the president. Since these two men were arrested at Dulles Airport with oneway tickets to vienna, their legal cases have diverged from each other a little bit. They were arrested together while they were planning to travel together. They initially had the same lawyers and appeared to be mounting a similar defense, but they now appear to be sort of going their own individual ways. And now lawyers for mr. Parnas in particular, hes the one here on the left of the screen, i think of him as more the keyboard player and igor more as the drummer. Mr. Parnas, the guy on the left, his lawyers now tell the New York Times that this spring, as early as the first part of may this year, he, lev, and igor, went to ukraine to tell the Ukrainian Government that they were not going to get any military aid and interestingly, they were not going to get mike pence at the inauguration of the new ukrainian president unless the Ukrainian Government coughed up investigations into joe biden and his son. Investigations designed to help President Trump in his 2020 reelection effort. You see the headline there in the New York Times, giuliani associate says he gave demand for biden inquiry to ukrainians. Not long before the ukrainian president was inaugurated in may, an associate of Rudy Giulianis journeyed to kiev to deliver a warning to the countrys new leadership. That associate, lev parnas told a representative of the incoming government it had to announce an investigation into mr. Trumps political rival joe biden and his son, or else, or else Vice President mike pence would not attend the swearing in of the new president and the United States would freeze aid to ukraine. What a world we live in. Right . I mean, will the Vice President of the United States attend the inauguration of an important new National Leader in the capital city of one of our key strategic allies . I dont know, were going to have to run it through lev, right . Lev is the guy who can broker that kind of thing. Is he with igor . Okay, yeah, of course, hes with igor. Yeah. Are they going to i mean, what a world. Now, do we believe that do we believe mr. Parnas in this assertion that this is what he did in kiev in may . I mean, his lawyer further tells the New York Times that levs message to the ukrainians, quote, was given at the direction of mr. Giuliani who mr. Parnas believed was acting under mr. Trumps instruction. Do we believe that . Do we believe what mr. Parnas said he was doing in ukraine of may of this year . I dont know. By the end of this add stral administrati administration, are any of us going to be able to believe anyone ever again especially if theyre associated with the highest levels of the u. S. Government . Will we ever regain our capacity to belief someone when they speak . I dont know. Everybody else associated with this story says that we shouldnt believe lev on this. Mr. Juligiuliani says he didntl lev to say anything like that in ukraine. The guy from the Ukrainian Government who they met with in kiev says, yes, i did meet with lev and igor at that time in ukraine, but they didnt bring up military aid. The Ukrainian Government guy pointedly not bringing up the issue of whether they threatened to withhold the mike pence as well. It just doesnt address that part of it. Igor, himself, or at least igors lawyers who are quite a dream team now, h iz lawy his le one of Paul Manaforts lawyers and one of russias lawyers, igor admits through those lawyers, yes, he did go to ukraine with lev for that meeting in early may and, yes, there was a discussion in russian over coffee at a cafe in kiev between him and lev and a guy from the Ukrainian Government. He concedes all of that but says that, no, none of these threats were delivered, not at least the way that lev characterizes them. And, again, i mean, who are you going to believe . Who do you believe do you believe anybody who asserts anything in the middle of this scandal . I mean, trying to sort out competing claims among associates of President Trump and his lawyers is like trying to hold on to your lunch money at a pickpocket convention without a money belt. Good luck. Hope you had something stashed in your sock because anything that was in your pockets is going to be gone. So, i dont know whether we should believe these guys s and their competing claims as to what exactly they were doing in this extortion coampaign and whn and who was delivering what message, but lev says he was over there in early may saying, youre not getting your aid and youre not getting your mike pence unless you cough up investigations of joe biden. And heres the thing. The military aid to ukraine did get held up and mike pence did cancel his plan to go to the inauguration of the new ukrainian president and the explanation at the time for why mike pence did that was a little weak and a little weird. The Vice President s chief of staff said that mike pences trip to the ukrainian inauguration was canceled because nobody sent the advance team to check it out. The secret service didnt go over there in advance to plan it. And so mike pence went to canada instead of going to ukraine. That was their explanation for why he didnt go. Whether or not it was the fault of the secret service or the Vice President s advance team failing to launch and failing to set up the logistics for that inauguration, for whatever reason, mike pence did not go. Just as lev allegedly threatened at that meeting in advance of the inauguration. Pence, in fact, didnt show up. But you know who did show up . You know who the u. S. Government did send to that inauguration in place of Vice President pence . They sent this guy. They sent Energy Secretary rick perry who you may recall somewhat inexplicably quit his job all of a sudden as Energy Secretary as soon as this impeachment scandal started to break open. Well, in a remarkable news story from the Associated Press today we learn a little bit about what rick perry did when he went over there for that inauguration. Again, mike pence was initially scheduled to go. That was canceled under strange circumstances. Rick perry went instead. And what did rick perry do while he was there . Honestly, it sort of brings it home. My god, what must the ukrainians think of us . Weve been so condescending and patronizing and pushy with them about how corrupt they are, right . When it comes to just the inauguration of their new president who ran on an almost purely anticorruption campaign, when it comes to the inauguration of their new anticorruption president , i mean, in the New York Times today, theres this story about how the Ukrainian Government was threatened that the Vice President of the United States wouldnt come to that inauguration unless he could unless the new government could satisfy these guys, lev and igor, that ukraine would help try to get trump reelected by cooking up some fake investigation into joe biden. When Vice President pence, indeed, canceled his trip to that inaugural, ukraine instead gets rick perry who, according to the a. P. Today basically brought his own uhaul full of grift to that first date. Two political supporters of u. S. Energy secretary rick perry secured a potentially Lucrative Oil and Gas Exploration deal from the Ukrainian Government soon after rick perry proposed one of the men as an adviser to the countrys new president. Ukraine awarded the contract to perrys supporters a little more than a month after perry attended zelenskys inauguration. In a meeting during that trip, during the inauguration, perry handed the new president a list of people he recommended as energy advisers. One of the four names was his longtime political backer michael bleyser. A week later bleyser and his partner submitted a bid to drill for oil and gas at a sprawling governmentcontrolled site in ukraine. They offered millions of dollars less to the Ukrainian Government than their only competitor for those drilling rights but nevertheless, their newly created joint venture won the gig. They were awarded a 50year contract because a Governmentappointed Commission in ukraine said they should get it. This same reporting team at the a. P. Led by reporters Desmond Butler and michael besiker reported as early as the beginning of may, as early as the first week of may, this new president elect in ukraine had convened his advisers to talk about all the pressure he was getting from the Trump Administration to gin up some sort of investigation into joe biden. I mean, this guy is newly elected. Newly elected on an anticorruption platform. His country has been invaded by russia. His country is in an ongoing war with russia. Were their most important political ally in the world. Were their biggest source of military support. And he, upon getting elected, even before hes sworn in, hes simultaneously getting pressured to open investigations into joe biden as a political favor for u. S. President donald trump. He ultimately gets pressured that hes not going to get a white house meeting. That u. S. Military aid could be held up. That the Vice President , whos initially supposed to have come to his inauguration, thats going to get yanked. Meanwhile, a trump cabinet official does show up at the inauguration and slips him a piece of paper that says, hey, i got these buddies that are into oil and gas stuff, i hear you have governmentcontrolled bids going. Rick perry goes over there for the inauguration and uses that occasion in this context . To put in a word for these two guys, both of whom are big political donors to rick perry including the guy who loaned rick perry the use of his private jet for one of rick perrys president ial runs. Perry goes over there on may 20th for the inauguration of the new ukrainian president elect, and thats how he spends his time while hes there. Trying to get his political donors a gig, an oil and gas drilling gig with the new Ukrainian Government. And then a few weeks later the Ukrainian Government bites the bullet and is like, okay, rick perry, your friends can have a 50year oil and gas contract on governmentowned land here in ukraine, even though they offered many millions of dollars less than the Ukrainian Companies that bid for it. I guess we have to give them to you. Were lecturing them about corruption, right . But even still, the u. S. Assistance, this crucial u. S. Assistance to ukraine was held up. And over the course of the past 24 hours, weve had a whole bunch of new information filling in the gaps as to how that happened and when it happened and how people inside our own government started to figure out what was going on there because today the impeachment committees released testimony from laura cooper, who is the Deputy Assistant secretary of defense for russia, ukraine, and eurasia. You might remember her testimony happened the day that Republican Trump supporters in congress stormed the scif. They stormed into the secure hearing room thats reserved for classifi took over the place ev though they didnt have clearance to be in there. They, like, ordered pizza and broke security and mounted the stunt in there for hours and hours to physically block the impeachment proceedings from going ahead. Laura cooper is the pentagon official whose testimony got delayed that day for fiveplus hours because of that stunt. But ultimately, she did testify and we got the transcript of that testimony today. And in that transcript, we get this really interesting window into her bewilderment as a seen Year Defense Department official responsible for that part of the world. We get a sense of sort of her bewilderment and shock about this crucial u. S. Aid to ukraine being held up. It was, for example, laura coopers office at the pentagon that put together the announcement that ukraine was about to get their longplanned delivery of u. S. Military aid. This is from her transcript today. Cooper says, by midjune, we had announced and were moving out on it. Question, okay, you say by mid june, we announced it, are you referring to the may 18th public reless by the Defense Department . Yes, thank you. Question, were you involved in the issuance of that public release . Answer, yes, i coordinated on the content of it. Quote, i believe my staff helped draft it in consultation with our Public Affairs staff. Quote, question, and they reeles essentially said the Defense Department was planning on providing 250 million to ukraine and Security Cooperation funds . Is that consistent with your recollection of the release . Answer, yes, that would be the gist of it. Question, what was the effect of this release on june 18th by the Defense Department . Answer, well, one effect was that the Ukraine Embassy and the ukraine government thanked us for making that public. They had been looking for a public acknowledgement of the assistance. Not because this was unusual, they just appreciate it when allies publicly note what kind of support were providing ukraine. So, that was an immediate reaction. We got a thank you phone call from the Ukraine Embassy, our team in kiev at the Defense Attache office heard appreciation. Quote, the second potential effect was a few days later we got a question from my chain of command forwarded down from the chief of staff asking for followup on a meeting with the president. Question, who was this email from . You mentioned the chief of staff. Answer, yes, it came through a number of people before it reached my desk. I dont recall exactly how many people, but it came from the chief of staff to the secretary of defense in our building. Question, but you indicated you thought this might come from the white house . Answer, the way the email was phrased, it said followup from potus meeting, so followup from a meeting with the president. So, you know, im thinking that the questions are probably questions from the president. Thats how i interpreted that subject line. So on june 18th, right, this is the Senior Pentagon official with responsibility for ukraine, and its clear, like, she and her office think this is normal. This military aid has been approved. Its gone through all its clearances. They go through the trouble of publicly announcing it, but then theres a public announcement of it so then they get the questions from the president , from a meeting with the president , not just a white house meeting, the president has questions about this. I mean, again, normal normal chain of events here, military aid is going to ukraine. Ukraine is delighted. Ukraine says, thank you for saying something publicly. Your support means the world to us. We got a thank you phone call. But then the president hears that this aid is going to ukraine and they get this series of questions, right . Wait a second, why is the president concerned about this . Dun, dun, dun. And then in july, it all just starts to fall apart. July 18th, laura cooper sends her deputy to a white house meeting. At that meeting, its where its announced the white house has ordered a hold on some of the u. S. Governments aid for ukraine. At this point, laura cooper, this Defense Department official, seems to be hopeful even if the other aid thats help up to ukraine, the aid that goes through the state department, at least the military aid is still going to go through, right . No. Five days later on july 23rd, cooper, herself, goes to participate in a white house meeting. Shes increasingly concerned because she still hasnt heard anything specifically about the military funds, but that other u. S. Aid thats supposed to go through the state department, she at that meeting starts advocating for the release of those funds because those funds are important, too, and why are those being held up . And sure enough, july 25th, the day of the call between President Trump and the president of ukraine, here comes Dulles Airport<\/a> with oneway tickets to vienna, their legal cases have diverged from each other a little bit. They were arrested together while they were planning to travel together. They initially had the same lawyers and appeared to be mounting a similar defense, but they now appear to be sort of going their own individual ways. And now lawyers for mr. Parnas in particular, hes the one here on the left of the screen, i think of him as more the keyboard player and igor more as the drummer. Mr. Parnas, the guy on the left, his lawyers now tell the New York Times<\/a> that this spring, as early as the first part of may this year, he, lev, and igor, went to ukraine to tell the Ukrainian Government<\/a> that they were not going to get any military aid and interestingly, they were not going to get mike pence at the inauguration of the new ukrainian president unless the Ukrainian Government<\/a> coughed up investigations into joe biden and his son. Investigations designed to help President Trump<\/a> in his 2020 reelection effort. You see the headline there in the New York Times<\/a>, giuliani associate says he gave demand for biden inquiry to ukrainians. Not long before the ukrainian president was inaugurated in may, an associate of Rudy Giulianis<\/a> journeyed to kiev to deliver a warning to the countrys new leadership. That associate, lev parnas told a representative of the incoming government it had to announce an investigation into mr. Trumps political rival joe biden and his son, or else, or else Vice President<\/a> mike pence would not attend the swearing in of the new president and the United States<\/a> would freeze aid to ukraine. What a world we live in. Right . I mean, will the Vice President<\/a> of the United States<\/a> attend the inauguration of an important new National Leader<\/a> in the capital city of one of our key strategic allies . I dont know, were going to have to run it through lev, right . Lev is the guy who can broker that kind of thing. Is he with igor . Okay, yeah, of course, hes with igor. Yeah. Are they going to i mean, what a world. Now, do we believe that do we believe mr. Parnas in this assertion that this is what he did in kiev in may . I mean, his lawyer further tells the New York Times<\/a> that levs message to the ukrainians, quote, was given at the direction of mr. Giuliani who mr. Parnas believed was acting under mr. Trumps instruction. Do we believe that . Do we believe what mr. Parnas said he was doing in ukraine of may of this year . I dont know. By the end of this add stral administrati administration, are any of us going to be able to believe anyone ever again especially if theyre associated with the highest levels of the u. S. Government . Will we ever regain our capacity to belief someone when they speak . I dont know. Everybody else associated with this story says that we shouldnt believe lev on this. Mr. Juligiuliani says he didntl lev to say anything like that in ukraine. The guy from the Ukrainian Government<\/a> who they met with in kiev says, yes, i did meet with lev and igor at that time in ukraine, but they didnt bring up military aid. The Ukrainian Government<\/a> guy pointedly not bringing up the issue of whether they threatened to withhold the mike pence as well. It just doesnt address that part of it. Igor, himself, or at least igors lawyers who are quite a dream team now, h iz lawy his le one of Paul Manaforts<\/a> lawyers and one of russias lawyers, igor admits through those lawyers, yes, he did go to ukraine with lev for that meeting in early may and, yes, there was a discussion in russian over coffee at a cafe in kiev between him and lev and a guy from the Ukrainian Government<\/a>. He concedes all of that but says that, no, none of these threats were delivered, not at least the way that lev characterizes them. And, again, i mean, who are you going to believe . Who do you believe do you believe anybody who asserts anything in the middle of this scandal . I mean, trying to sort out competing claims among associates of President Trump<\/a> and his lawyers is like trying to hold on to your lunch money at a pickpocket convention without a money belt. Good luck. Hope you had something stashed in your sock because anything that was in your pockets is going to be gone. So, i dont know whether we should believe these guys s and their competing claims as to what exactly they were doing in this extortion coampaign and whn and who was delivering what message, but lev says he was over there in early may saying, youre not getting your aid and youre not getting your mike pence unless you cough up investigations of joe biden. And heres the thing. The military aid to ukraine did get held up and mike pence did cancel his plan to go to the inauguration of the new ukrainian president and the explanation at the time for why mike pence did that was a little weak and a little weird. The Vice President<\/a> s chief of staff said that mike pences trip to the ukrainian inauguration was canceled because nobody sent the advance team to check it out. The secret service didnt go over there in advance to plan it. And so mike pence went to canada instead of going to ukraine. That was their explanation for why he didnt go. Whether or not it was the fault of the secret service or the Vice President<\/a> s advance team failing to launch and failing to set up the logistics for that inauguration, for whatever reason, mike pence did not go. Just as lev allegedly threatened at that meeting in advance of the inauguration. Pence, in fact, didnt show up. But you know who did show up . You know who the u. S. Government did send to that inauguration in place of Vice President<\/a> pence . They sent this guy. They sent Energy Secretary<\/a> rick perry who you may recall somewhat inexplicably quit his job all of a sudden as Energy Secretary<\/a> as soon as this impeachment scandal started to break open. Well, in a remarkable news story from the Associated Press<\/a> today we learn a little bit about what rick perry did when he went over there for that inauguration. Again, mike pence was initially scheduled to go. That was canceled under strange circumstances. Rick perry went instead. And what did rick perry do while he was there . Honestly, it sort of brings it home. My god, what must the ukrainians think of us . Weve been so condescending and patronizing and pushy with them about how corrupt they are, right . When it comes to just the inauguration of their new president who ran on an almost purely anticorruption campaign, when it comes to the inauguration of their new anticorruption president , i mean, in the New York Times<\/a> today, theres this story about how the Ukrainian Government<\/a> was threatened that the Vice President<\/a> of the United States<\/a> wouldnt come to that inauguration unless he could unless the new government could satisfy these guys, lev and igor, that ukraine would help try to get trump reelected by cooking up some fake investigation into joe biden. When Vice President<\/a> pence, indeed, canceled his trip to that inaugural, ukraine instead gets rick perry who, according to the a. P. Today basically brought his own uhaul full of grift to that first date. Two political supporters of u. S. Energy secretary rick perry secured a potentially Lucrative Oil<\/a> and Gas Exploration<\/a> deal from the Ukrainian Government<\/a> soon after rick perry proposed one of the men as an adviser to the countrys new president. Ukraine awarded the contract to perrys supporters a little more than a month after perry attended zelenskys inauguration. In a meeting during that trip, during the inauguration, perry handed the new president a list of people he recommended as energy advisers. One of the four names was his longtime political backer michael bleyser. A week later bleyser and his partner submitted a bid to drill for oil and gas at a sprawling governmentcontrolled site in ukraine. They offered millions of dollars less to the Ukrainian Government<\/a> than their only competitor for those drilling rights but nevertheless, their newly created joint venture won the gig. They were awarded a 50year contract because a Governmentappointed Commission<\/a> in ukraine said they should get it. This same reporting team at the a. P. Led by reporters Desmond Butler<\/a> and michael besiker reported as early as the beginning of may, as early as the first week of may, this new president elect in ukraine had convened his advisers to talk about all the pressure he was getting from the Trump Administration<\/a> to gin up some sort of investigation into joe biden. I mean, this guy is newly elected. Newly elected on an anticorruption platform. His country has been invaded by russia. His country is in an ongoing war with russia. Were their most important political ally in the world. Were their biggest source of military support. And he, upon getting elected, even before hes sworn in, hes simultaneously getting pressured to open investigations into joe biden as a political favor for u. S. President donald trump. He ultimately gets pressured that hes not going to get a white house meeting. That u. S. Military aid could be held up. That the Vice President<\/a> , whos initially supposed to have come to his inauguration, thats going to get yanked. Meanwhile, a trump cabinet official does show up at the inauguration and slips him a piece of paper that says, hey, i got these buddies that are into oil and gas stuff, i hear you have governmentcontrolled bids going. Rick perry goes over there for the inauguration and uses that occasion in this context . To put in a word for these two guys, both of whom are big political donors to rick perry including the guy who loaned rick perry the use of his private jet for one of rick perrys president ial runs. Perry goes over there on may 20th for the inauguration of the new ukrainian president elect, and thats how he spends his time while hes there. Trying to get his political donors a gig, an oil and gas drilling gig with the new Ukrainian Government<\/a>. And then a few weeks later the Ukrainian Government<\/a> bites the bullet and is like, okay, rick perry, your friends can have a 50year oil and gas contract on governmentowned land here in ukraine, even though they offered many millions of dollars less than the Ukrainian Companies<\/a> that bid for it. I guess we have to give them to you. Were lecturing them about corruption, right . But even still, the u. S. Assistance, this crucial u. S. Assistance to ukraine was held up. And over the course of the past 24 hours, weve had a whole bunch of new information filling in the gaps as to how that happened and when it happened and how people inside our own government started to figure out what was going on there because today the impeachment committees released testimony from laura cooper, who is the Deputy Assistant<\/a> secretary of defense for russia, ukraine, and eurasia. You might remember her testimony happened the day that Republican Trump<\/a> supporters in congress stormed the scif. They stormed into the secure hearing room thats reserved for classifi took over the place ev though they didnt have clearance to be in there. They, like, ordered pizza and broke security and mounted the stunt in there for hours and hours to physically block the impeachment proceedings from going ahead. Laura cooper is the pentagon official whose testimony got delayed that day for fiveplus hours because of that stunt. But ultimately, she did testify and we got the transcript of that testimony today. And in that transcript, we get this really interesting window into her bewilderment as a seen Year Defense Department<\/a> official responsible for that part of the world. We get a sense of sort of her bewilderment and shock about this crucial u. S. Aid to ukraine being held up. It was, for example, laura coopers office at the pentagon that put together the announcement that ukraine was about to get their longplanned delivery of u. S. Military aid. This is from her transcript today. Cooper says, by midjune, we had announced and were moving out on it. Question, okay, you say by mid june, we announced it, are you referring to the may 18th public reless by the Defense Department<\/a> . Yes, thank you. Question, were you involved in the issuance of that public release . Answer, yes, i coordinated on the content of it. Quote, i believe my staff helped draft it in consultation with our Public Affairs<\/a> staff. Quote, question, and they reeles essentially said the Defense Department<\/a> was planning on providing 250 million to ukraine and Security Cooperation<\/a> funds . Is that consistent with your recollection of the release . Answer, yes, that would be the gist of it. Question, what was the effect of this release on june 18th by the Defense Department<\/a> . Answer, well, one effect was that the Ukraine Embassy<\/a> and the ukraine government thanked us for making that public. They had been looking for a public acknowledgement of the assistance. Not because this was unusual, they just appreciate it when allies publicly note what kind of support were providing ukraine. So, that was an immediate reaction. We got a thank you phone call from the Ukraine Embassy<\/a>, our team in kiev at the Defense Attache<\/a> office heard appreciation. Quote, the second potential effect was a few days later we got a question from my chain of command forwarded down from the chief of staff asking for followup on a meeting with the president. Question, who was this email from . You mentioned the chief of staff. Answer, yes, it came through a number of people before it reached my desk. I dont recall exactly how many people, but it came from the chief of staff to the secretary of defense in our building. Question, but you indicated you thought this might come from the white house . Answer, the way the email was phrased, it said followup from potus meeting, so followup from a meeting with the president. So, you know, im thinking that the questions are probably questions from the president. Thats how i interpreted that subject line. So on june 18th, right, this is the Senior Pentagon<\/a> official with responsibility for ukraine, and its clear, like, she and her office think this is normal. This military aid has been approved. Its gone through all its clearances. They go through the trouble of publicly announcing it, but then theres a public announcement of it so then they get the questions from the president , from a meeting with the president , not just a white house meeting, the president has questions about this. I mean, again, normal normal chain of events here, military aid is going to ukraine. Ukraine is delighted. Ukraine says, thank you for saying something publicly. Your support means the world to us. We got a thank you phone call. But then the president hears that this aid is going to ukraine and they get this series of questions, right . Wait a second, why is the president concerned about this . Dun, dun, dun. And then in july, it all just starts to fall apart. July 18th, laura cooper sends her deputy to a white house meeting. At that meeting, its where its announced the white house has ordered a hold on some of the u. S. Governments aid for ukraine. At this point, laura cooper, this Defense Department<\/a> official, seems to be hopeful even if the other aid thats help up to ukraine, the aid that goes through the state department, at least the military aid is still going to go through, right . No. Five days later on july 23rd, cooper, herself, goes to participate in a white house meeting. Shes increasingly concerned because she still hasnt heard anything specifically about the military funds, but that other u. S. Aid thats supposed to go through the state department, she at that meeting starts advocating for the release of those funds because those funds are important, too, and why are those being held up . And sure enough, july 25th, the day of the call between President Trump<\/a> and the president of ukraine, here comes Defense Department<\/a> explaining that, in fact, the military aid is being frozen, too, on orders from the white house. And then the day after the phone call, july 26th, shes back up at the white house for another meeting and all ambiguity is gone. And there it was, to me, anyway, in my experience, it was the first time it was stated very clearly that, yes, it is both the military funds and the state Department Funds<\/a> that are both affected by this whole and that it relates to the president s concerns. What kind of concerns . The president s concerns about corruption. Oh, yes. President trump is very concerned about corruption, why he centric perry to go over there to the inauguration with the piece of paper in his pockets with the names of his political donors he wants to get in on that 50year ukrainian gas contract. Whoo because the u. S. Governments really concerned about corruption. In ukraine. Yeah, that Ukrainian Government<\/a>, theyre very corrupt. So this testimony from the Senior Pentagon<\/a> official, we just got the transcript of it today, now indicates that it was the president s instruction that was holding up both the u. S. Aid for ukraine from the state department and the u. S. Aid for ukraine, the military aid from the Defense Department<\/a>. And Bloomberg News<\/a> has some detailed and fascinating new reporting about how half of that got freed up. How the state department side of that got freed up. In a previously unreported classified memorandum to secretary of state mike pompeo, state Department Lawyers<\/a> reportedly found that the white house had no legal standing to block the spending of the ukraine aid because they had no legal standing to block it, the state department in Early September<\/a> freed up that aid to go to ukraine, apparently without telling President Trump<\/a> that they were doing so. The state Department Reportedly<\/a> internally concluded that it was illegal to not send over those funds to ukraine before midseptember. Ultimately, the person who ordered the state department to pull the trigger after theyd conducted that legal analysis appears to have been john bolton, the National Security<\/a> adviser. Quoting from bloomberg, shortly before september 9th, john bolton relayed a message to the state department that the funding could go ahead. Its not clear whether bolton did so with trumps approval. Bolton resigned from his job one week later. Thats how the state Department Aid<\/a> gets freed up. The lawyers conclude it has to go, legally, then john bolton says, yeah, let it go, then he quits his job. Now, the rest of the fund, the military funds, laura cooper, the senior Defense Department<\/a> official, indicates in her testimony which we just got today that it also appeared to be quite illegal for trump to be withholding that part of the funding, too. She says in that meeting where it finally became Crystal Clear<\/a> that the president had ordered the withholding of both the state department money and the military money, she says, in that meeting, deputies immediately began to raise concerns about how this could be done in a legal fashion. The comments in the room at the deputies level reflected a sense there was not an understanding of how this could legally play out. The question in the room, there was not an available mechanism to simply not spend money that in the case of the state department had already been notified to congress and in the case of the military assistance was money already earmarked for ukraine. So the Senior Leaders<\/a> were expressing they did not see how this option was legally available. So you put all this together, and what weve got in all of this reporting, all of this testimony released right ahead of the public impeachment hearings that start the day after tomorrow, what we got is that while the president and his amazing cast of characters were working to pressure the ukraine government that hthey had to announce investigations into the democrats and into joe biden, right, while that was happening, the president was simultaneously ordering the withholding of aid to ukraine. Aid that was supposed to go through the state department and aid to ukraine that was supposed to go through the military and in both instances, his efforts to hold up that money and not disperse it appear to have been illegal which both the state department and the Defense Department<\/a> were well aware of and were actively discussing including in at least one classified memo that they were using to advise at least one cabinet secretary at the time. And while guys like Energy Secretary<\/a> rick perry were working out their side hustle to get their Campaign Donors<\/a> drilling contracts from the new Ukrainian Government<\/a>, while the Ukrainian Government<\/a> was desperate for our assistance and support, and where, remember, the u. S. Government is very concerned that these yukrainian might be corrupt, we really need them to up their game when it comes to corruption because rick perrys come and somebody needs to get paid. So when one u. S. Cabinet official, rick perry, is working his side hustle for his Campaign Donors<\/a>, right, and the Vice President<\/a> of the United States<\/a> may or may not be having his time brokered and his overseas trips vetted and approved by lev and igor, and haplessly and desperately in the middle of all of this mishigas from this administration, theres ukraine. Invaded by russia for whom we are the most important ally and the most important source of support including specifically the most important source of military support, and people inside the u. S. Government who understand what that country is going through and why we support them and how important that is to us and them, i mean, theyre at their whits end. They cant quite believe this is happening the way its happening. I mean, heres laura cooper. So dod, the Defense Department<\/a>, was concerned about the obligation of funds. Policy, my team, we were also concerned about any signal that we would send to ukraine about wavering in our commitment. We did not want this to be a big public discussion, you know, if we were about to get it turned back on again because we didnt want to signal lack of support. Question, why would that be a problem for ukraine . Answer, so thefirst and easiest way of looking at that is looking at the peace process. Ukraine is is trying to negotiate a peace with russia. If ukraine is seen as weak and seen to lack the backing of the United States<\/a> for their armed forces, it makes it much more difficult for them to negotiate a peace on terms that are good for ukraine. Question, okay, so what would weaken an ally . That being ukraine. Is that correct . Answer, it would weaken a strategic partner. Question, and it would potentially strengthen our embolden russia . Answer, that is correct. We also got testimony released today from two other ukraine experts in the u. S. Government, Christopher Anderson<\/a> on the right, Catherine Kroft<\/a> on the left. National Security Council<\/a> officials. They both testified about this odd period in u. S. History that they lived through in their jobs this year with all of our previous support and all stated u. S. Policy to ukraine was suddenly up ended or weirdly put on the bubble. Catherine kroft is asked about the upset, anxiety in ukraine, that it would become known that the u. S. Was maybe not supporting them anymore, particularly against russia. Question, i think you said that word of that, word of this hold on military assistance got to the ukrainians and two ukrainian officials reached out to you quietly to ask you about this hold. Kroft answers, yes, thats right. Question, now, you said the two Ukrainian Embassy<\/a> officials, understood they had no interest in this becoming public. Is that right . Answer thats correct, thats correct. Question, why would they not want this to become public . Answer, if this were public in ukraine, it would be seen as a reversal of our policy and would, to say candidly and quoek wa cloak wally, this would be a really big deal. Question, so as long as they thought they could work through what was causing the hold, they wanted this to remain out of the public attention . Answer, exactly. So the pressure on ukraine to investigate his political rivals to help him in his reelection effort, thats what the president is being impeached for. And we will have public hearings on that subject starting the day after tomorrow. That said, the effort to put some real money into that pressure by holding up legally appropriated funds from both the state department and the Defense Department<\/a>, those efforts appear to have been illegal or at least judged as such by officials and experts inside the state department and inside the Defense Department<\/a> who were scrambling how to figure out scrambling to figure out what to do with these illegal instructions. W but on top of all of that, the damage we have just done to our ally, right, ukraines standing, particularly when itle comes t their ongoing war with russia and the appearance of their strength and the implications of that for their negotiating position with rich sussia while engage in negotiations with them over an ongoing war, that damage is done. That damage is done. And even though this whole scandal is so hamhanded as to be laugh out loud funny every day, right, including rick perry over there bringing the anticorruption message of the u. S. Government and the Trump Administration<\/a> to bear, right. Thats on one side of the car, where on the other side of the card hes got the name of his Campaign Donors<\/a> because he needs them to get the contract from the Ukrainian Government<\/a>, were putting unbelievable exponential pressure on them. Heres a u. S. Cabinet official being like, hey, hook up my buddies. From that to lev and igor and Rudy Giuliani<\/a> and all the rest of these guys, through all of the other clowns in that particular clown car, its ridiculous. Right . But then theres a real country in the middle of a real war with thousands of their citizens dead right in the middle of all of this and the damage done to them, to our ally, an ally that really needs our help against an adversary that has invaded them and taken part of their country, and that Means Nothing<\/a> but harm to us, that repair work obviously cannot even begin as long as this administration is still in office. Now that we understand this much more about how they are conducting themselves. Its not just about praising Vladimir Putin<\/a> and having secret communications with them all the time. Its at this is what we are doing to our closest ally who is at most danger from russias every move. This is what weve been doing to them. Not threatening to do it, weve done it. And unless this president is removed in this impeachment process, that repair job is going to be job one for the next president of the United States<\/a>. If he is not removed by this impeachment process, we cant start that repair until hes gone some other way. Whoever replaces him will have that as day one, job one, as the cleanup for what this guys already done. [spokeswoman] meet the ninja foodi grill. Get the perfectly grilled flavors of an outdoor grill indoors, and because its a ninja foodi, it can do even more, like transform into an air fryer. The ninja foodi grill, the grill that sears, sizzles, and air fry crisps. Steven could only imaginem 24hr to trenjoying a spicy taco. Burn, now, his world explodes with flavor. Nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for allday allnight protection. Can you imagine 24hours without heartburn . Do you recall, not long ago we would walk on the sidewalk all around the wind blows we would only hold on to let go blow a kiss into the sun we need someone to lean on blow a kiss into the sun we needed somebody to lean on all we need is someone to lean on as we head toward the first public hearings in the impeachment of President Trump<\/a>, we got new testimony released today from a senior Defense Department<\/a> official and we got new reporting from Bloomberg News<\/a> about how officials in the state department and the pentagon tried to cope with these decisions by the white house to hold up state Department Assistance<\/a> to ukraine and to hold up military assistance to ukraine. Both on orders of the white house. Even though both of those holds appear to have been illegal. On top of that, we also got news about the Trump White House<\/a> in 2017 and 2018 holding up the pervision of javelin missiles to ukraine. No, they held up the javelin missiles in 2017 and 2018 for a different reason. This is from todays newly released testimony by state Department Official<\/a> Catherine Kroft<\/a>. The javelins, provision of the javelin missiles, do you recall whether there was a hold or freeze put on the javelins . Answer, there was a process, there was one hold, there was one agency that put a hold on that which was that agency . Question, did you understand why . Answer, i understood the reason to be a policy one. Question, what was the policy one . Answer, in a briefing with mr. Mulvaney, head of the office of management and budget, the question centered around the russian reaction. Question, what was the concern around the russian reaction . Answer, that russia would react negatively to the provision of the javelins to ukraine. Question, what was the reaction of that concern to the orther e agencies . Answer, i dont know if i can provide that answer in an unclassified setting. Question, is it. Answer, i can say all the policy agencies were in support. Question, you mean in support of providing the javelins . Answer, kroft, yes, correct. Joining us now, illinois congressman mike quigley. Sir, thank you very much for joining us. I appreciate you being here. Thank you, glad to be here. Im drowning in transcripts. I know youve been through all these things live. I wanted to read that one setting up this discussion with you because i was struck by that sort of boldfaced testimony that the white house made the decision to hold up javelin missiles that were otherwise due to be delivered to ukraine and all agencies believed should be delivered on white house concerns that russia might mind. Heres whats questioning. Whats Mick Mulvaney<\/a> doing making that decision when hes the head of omb . Its extraordinarily unusual. It leads me to believe that Mick Mulvaney<\/a> wasnt making that decision in his role, it was making that decision based on something the president was saying or doing which is more consistent with the rest of the policy in ukraine. The reasons that they state that theyre doing clearly arent the case. Well, ms. Croft goes on to discussion in her testimony that this direction, she seems to have been under the impression that this direction on those javelin missiles came from the president. It is hard for us, i think, from the Vantage Point<\/a> that we have as observers, people whove been reading the transcript released by the impeachment committees, its hard for us to discern how many people were acting of their own volition and how many people were acting at the direction of the president. Is that something you can discern from your perspective on the Intelligence Committee<\/a> without being able to depose people like Mick Mulvaney<\/a>, people like rick perry, people like Rudy Giuliani<\/a> . Its tough, but lets look whats in the public record. You have mulvaneys admission to this whole point. You have the white house call transcript. You have the volker text. You have all this testimony here that you piece together and the bottom line is theres absolutely no way this takes place. All the things that were learning about, the extortion of one of our closest allies, without the president of the United States<\/a> dictating that. When these gang of three or four go to the white house and talk about the new presidency in ukraine, the president keeps saying over and over again, talk to giuliani. So, clearly, the shadow government, Foreign Policy<\/a> theyre talking about, has set aside the established cream of our diplomatic core so they can do the president s bidding to help him politically. Congressman, i think a lot of people are wondering whether or not we should expect the public hearings that start on wednesday to be just a public version of the kind of discussions that eye all have been having behind closed doors, that we can read these transcripts of now. Are for americans who have been sort of aware that this is going on, and watching the headlines but not following it closely, should we expect that people tuning in on wednesday to watch those hearings, paying attention to this closely for the first time, that theyll be able to follow this in basic terms starting from square one, or are you guys kind of picking up with where you left off with these closeddoor depositions . Well, i think theres a reason in a jury trial they just dont hang out depositions in a civil case. Theres a lot to be said for watching these people testify. And what struck me about them was they were clear, they were consistent, they were compelling, and i think that they showed the truth of what they were saying. I think it was very hard to bump them off their game. I think that will help a great deal as the American People<\/a> watch their testimony. Were going to have to public hearings this week, sir, do you anticipate that will be a pace Going Forward<\/a> where well have a couple of hearings per week and it will go on for a lit l while . Do you have any sense of the overall timeframe here . Look, some of this has to go with what time allows. We do have a time crumple hench. Unfortunately, one we didnt create. The fact so many of their witnesses were not allowed to testify. I look back at watergate, the article 3 of the articles of impeachment against Richard Nixon<\/a> dictates four times in which Richard Nixon<\/a> obstructed that investigation. We saw that happen once, in one day, they obstructed four times where four people were supposed to testify did not because the white house told them not to. All of these witnesses were told not to. Many of them had the courage of their conviction to come forward. This is compelling testimony. Only a small percentage of the American People<\/a> had read the special counsels report on what took place with russia. Far more people watch these hearings as they took place. Im hoping we have the same effect here coming this week. Congressman mike quigley, member of the Intelligence Committee<\/a>, sir, good luck this week. Thanks very much for joining us. Thank you. All right. Much more ahead tonight. Stay with us. Hi honey, we got in early. Yeah, and we brought steve and mark. Experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. Sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first months payment. 6, 7, 8 big dreams start with small steps. But dedication can get you there. So just start small. Start saving. Easily set, track and control your goals right from the chase mobile\u00ae app. Chase. Make more of whats yours\u00ae. One of the landmark hearings in congress this year was the marathon testimony from President Trump<\/a>s longtime Attorney Michael Cohen<\/a> during which cohen made allegations of serious criminal wrongdoing by the president from before the campaign all the way up to the white house. That was the Oversight Committee<\/a> in congress. Also the Oversight Committee<\/a> that launched an investigation into trumps immigration policy and family separations at the border. It was the Oversight Committee<\/a> that has been relentless on the president s alleged efforts to use the presidency to his own financial advantage whether it be sending Vice President<\/a> pence to President Trump<\/a>s golf resort in ireland during his official visit to that country, or the president s pitch to host World Leaders<\/a> at the g7 at his own property in miami. All of those oversight responsibilities all conducted under the leadership of that committees chairman Elijah Cummings<\/a>. And that was even before that Oversight Committee<\/a> took a central role in the ongoing impeachment proceedings against the president. The loss of chairman Elijah Cummings<\/a> would be hard at any time, but it has been an incredibly heavy thing to lose a leader with such gravitas, someone with such a clear ethical core, at a critical time like this. People will look back at this moment and they will ask the question, what did you do . And hearing him, we would be reminded that it falls upon each of us to give voice to the voiceless and comfort to the sick and opportunity to those not born to it and to preserve and nurture our democracy. He had little tolerance for those who put party ahead of country or partisanship above truth. But he could find Common Ground<\/a> with anyone willing to seek it with him. And he liked to remind all of us that you cant get so caught up in who you are fighting that you forget what you are fighting for. Now, it is true that he dictated every aspect of his Service Today<\/a> and he would have told me, maya, i dont want a service at the u. S. Capitol, but i felt like very strongly that they were trying to tear him down and we needed to make sure that he went out with the respect and the dignity that he deserved. This was a man of the utmost integrity. Do you hear me . He had integrity. And he cared about our democracy. He cared about our planet. He cared about our community. He wanted to make sure that we left a society worthy of our children. The last woman you heard from there is Maya Rockymoore<\/a> cummings, congressman Elijah Cummings<\/a> wife and now widow. Shes been and impressive figure in her own right, most recently serving as chair of the Maryland Democratic<\/a> party. She spent more than two decades working in the private and public sectors including at the National Urban<\/a> league and Congressional Black Caucus<\/a> foundation and now in the wake of her husbands passing, a lot of people are wondering whether she may run for the seat in congress that was left by her beloved hate husband. Maya Rockymoore Cummings<\/a> joins us here for the first time next. Stay with us. H uspagas lo que n. Only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liber y billions of problems. Morning breath . Garlic breath . Stinky breath . Theres a therabreath for you. Therabreath fresh breath oral rinse instantly fights all types of bad breath and works for 24 hours. So you can. Breathe easy. Theres therabreath at walmart. Those darn seatbelts got me all crumpled up. Thats ok hey, guys hi mrs. Patterson. Wrinkles send the wrong message. Sorry. Help prevent them before they start with new downy wrinkleguard. Pleased to welcome to the show tonight Maya Rockymoore<\/a> cummings, widow of Elijah Cummings<\/a>. This is her First Television<\/a> interview since the passing of her husband. Dr. Rockymoore cummings, its an honor to have you here. Thanks for having me on, rachel. Your husband was a very, very valued guest here whenever we could get him. Wed talk to his staff and get a 20 chance or 12 chance or some minor chance that he could join us. Whenever we could, wed hold the spot for him in the hope that he could be here. We miss him, both his role as a leader and as somebody we could speak to whenever we could. I cant imagine that this hasnt been the most difficult time of your life this past month. Its been a very challenging time, but i got to tell you, we watched you every night, rachel. Even if he wasnt on, he was watching. So, just know that he appreciated you as much as you appreciated him. Oh, that my heart swells. Thank you for saying so. I wanted to talk to you tonight my heart swells. Thank you for saying so. I wanted to talk to you because i know you spoke to the Baltimore Sun<\/a> recently about your own health and your own status, but also i believe that youve been doing something about your own plans and the status of your husbands seat. I wanted to invite you to share some of that with us. So tomy will announce that ilbe running for the congress, the seventh Congressional District<\/a> of maryland. I believe very strongly i have the background and the focus and the commitment and the ability to take the reins and to make a good run for this seat. I fought right alongside elijah for the last 12 years and we knew each other ano before that, so iver beve been this path for fighting for the soul of our democracy, for fighting for health care, education, for a better america for all. He wanted me to continue this fight, and im going to continue this fight and run the race and prayerfully win. So you and your husband talked about this before his passing . He was enthusiastic about the idea of you carrying this and trying to take this burden on for yourself . Yeah, you know, weve been discussing this for quite some time because he had been ill for quite some time. And he had been pondering his future and what would happen to the seat. About six months ago, we were talking and he said, you know, i really do think you should take this seat. And so with that, you know, he would have expected it of me, and im going to tccontinue the fight. The fact of the matter is ive been fighting all along. I have a track record of working on issues such as social security, medicare, health care and economic security, and certainly technology, even, and so, you know, i was in the forefront of the battle to take on george w. Bush when he tried to privatize the system. Ive been working hard in the trenches at every level of government to advance policies of healthy working families. Im prepared and im ready to roll up my sleeves and address what baltimore needs. Baltimore is a city of great potential, but it has lopsided economic outcomes, lopsided health care outcomes, lopsided education outcomes, and the poorest people of the black and brown population of the city and certainly other areas are needing someone to launch what i call a clearcut revolution, someone who is ready to tackle the outlying areas. I look forward to bringing everything ive got to make sure we ever a Better Future<\/a> for the city and the region. Dr. Cummings, i wanted to ask you about this conversation you had with the Baltimore Sun<\/a> this week, that you plan to have a double mastectomy this week, which is an incredible decision, must be a momentous decision for you at the same time youre making this decision for your future. Can you tell me why you went public with this decision and how serious this is for you. Let me just say this was scheduled before running for office was ever a consideration, before elijahs health really took a bad turn for the worst. He went with me to the doctors appointment where i got a consultation about this option, and he agreed and begged me several times before he passed away to prioritize myself. And so with that, i decided to keep, even though he passed a bay and even though this race is now before me, i decided to keep my promise to him, and i will keep this appointment on friday where i will do this. I should tell you that my mother died of stage 4 Breast Cancer<\/a> in 2015. My sister was diagnosed with stage 2 last year. Shes my little sister diagnosed with stage 2. She had a double mastectomy, and now i want to get ahead of the curve and take basically the bull by the horns and stop it in its tracks before it ever begins. So im going to do this, and the way im going to do it is by moving forward, one step at a time, one day at a time. That being said, although it will take two to four weeks in terms of recovery, i will be laser focused on making sure that i am active, making sure that my campaign is strong, that im doing everything i need to do to fundraise and of course focus on social media and the things that i can do to have a presence even while im not physically able to be out in the community. Dr. Maya rockeymoore cummings, thank you so much for talking to us about these matters. Stay in touch with us. Wed love for you to keep us apprised as you go through all these decisions. Thank you for being with us. Thank you. Ma mayaroc mayarockeymoore. Com. Mayarockeymoore. Com. We needed somebody to lean on all we need is someone to lean on and i recently had hi, ia heart attack. It changed my life. But im a survivor. After my heart attack, my doctor prescribed brilinta. Its for people who have been hospitalized for a heart attack. Brilinta is taken with a lowdose aspirin. No more than 100 milligrams as it affects how well brilinta works. Brilinta helps keep platelets from sticking together and forming a clot. In a clinical study, brilinta worked better than plavix. Brilinta reduced the chance of having another heart attack. Or dying from one. Dont stop taking brilinta without talking to your doctor, since stopping it too soon increases your risk of clots in your stent, heart attack, stroke, and even death. Brilinta may cause bruising or bleeding more easily, or serious, sometimes fatal bleeding. Dont take brilinta if you have bleeding, like stomach ulcers, a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. Slow heart rhythm has been reported. Tell your doctor about bleeding new or unexpected shortness of breath any planned surgery, and all medicines you take. If you recently had a heart attack, ask your doctor if brilinta is right for you. My heart is worth brilinta. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. When you see people lining up outside the u. S. Supreme court, you know a big case is on the way. The people who lined up today outside the court plan to stay all night tonight so they can get a seat inside the Court Tomorrow<\/a> morning for oral arguments for daca, the program that protects 700,000 young people in this country from being deported. The Trump Program<\/a> wants to deport all the d. R. E. A. M. Ers, but lower courts so far have rejected that decision as arbitrary and capricious. So the question now goes to the Supreme Court<\/a>. One of the d. R. E. A. M. Ers caught the bus from d. C. With his mom today. Hes one of the named parties thats going to be argued. He told the Associated Press<\/a>, quote, i dont know whats going to happen. Whatever the outcome is, we know we fought hard for it and we will continue fighting. Im trying to be positive. In terms of governance, this case has potential to impact how far the president can go in rolling back established policy of all kinds. If this was done in an arbitrary and capricious manner and the court is going to block him from doing so, that might mean a lot in terms of other policies that were treated in the same way. But in human terms, in terms of what happens now for literally hundreds of thousands of people in this country, the Supreme Court<\/a> case on daca and the d. R. E. A. M. Ers tomorrow, its as big as it gets. That hearing is scheduled to start at 10 00 a. M. Eastern tomorrow. Were all over it. Watch this space. That does it for us tonight. Well see you tomorrow. Now its time for the last word with lawrence odonnell. Good evening, lawrence. I have a bit of a cold that you might be able to hear. You seem to have a little frog in your throat. Instead of our usual evening chat, im not sure how many words im actually going to be able to speak tonight, so im going to have to save it for the tv show, the actual story","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia903108.us.archive.org\/0\/items\/MSNBCW_20191112_020000_The_Rachel_Maddow_Show\/MSNBCW_20191112_020000_The_Rachel_Maddow_Show.thumbs\/MSNBCW_20191112_020000_The_Rachel_Maddow_Show_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240617T12:35:10+00:00"}