Have major consequence for this presidency. We are covering them all tonight. With me the reporters who broke two of those big stories, the Washington Post, matthew skoe field of mcclatchy. Let me start with you, deb lin. What can you tell us about this white house official who is under scrutiny and what do we know or do we know under scrutiny for what . We really dont know many of the underlying details, but we do know that its a Serious Investigation into that persons conduct, and that its something that is an important part its been described to us as an important part of the investigation. And remember, theres a dot of parts and tentacles of this russia probe and what were told is this investigation into the senior white house official is an important piece of that overall work. It is hard to imagine it wouldnt be. This is the first time weve heard a report that someone close to the president is sort of getting caught up in all of this in this way. Having said that to your first point, this is part of what seems to be an intensifying investigation, right . Right. Thats another part of what weve been told, which is that while there have been some subpoenas issued and some witnesses interviewed, its going to get more active. The investigation is going to do more subpoenas and more witness interviews. And its going to become more clear to the outside world exactly what is of concern to investigators and we are told we should expect that to happen in the coming weeks and months. So, obviously you know that anybody who is interested in politics, and particularly has been following all this very closely, started off a major guessing game. We do know that Jared Kushner, Rex Tillerson and sessions all had contacts with russian officials. But as to who is a, quote, significant person of interest, the term that you used in the story, senior white house advisor, is that to be taken literally as in a title . I think it should be taken as someone whoashe president s ear and who is very high up in the hierarchy. Thats what were tryi to signal there. Were not trying to give you a job title and then get into a game of this. You know, were trying to be careful in terms of our reporting. We felt like the consequence and implications of someone who has a senior role in the white house now being under investigation is worth telling people. And we are obviously doing more reporting work on our end and will bring more out as soon as we are confident, fully confident in what we have on new information obviously. But i dont think i dont want to, you know, try and like cast hints or anything. I think that would be unfair to all the people involved, frankly. But i do think its important to tell people that, you know, there is a senior white house official who is getting a very serious look from investigators in the russia probe. Meantime, matthew, and weve heard this so many times in so many investigations, that sometimes it doesnt have to be the age twal acctual act but it cover up. What can you tell us about the alleged cover up . There is no evidence there is an Ongoing Investigation into the cover up. There is evidence is that the special counsel has the authority to look into the possibility of a cover up. Its a nuanced difference. The Deputy Attorney general was speaking to members of the house today and explained this. We talked to representative elijah cummings. He said the possibility of a cover up becomes one of the three prongs of this investigation. Ive been talking very recently to the department est justice. They said we have to consider this is part of the authority of the special counsel. It does include the possibility of a cover up, but its not saying there is an ongoing cover up investigation at this time. But, again its not saying its not. It is an investigation that is intensifying and expanding with the appointment of former director mueller. You can see where these tentacles would be out there. We can see this this is something yeah, absolutely, i would agree with that. Any indication at all right now if there is something seriously leading them in that direction, or if this is just a possibility . Right now what we know is that its just a possibility. Its not necessarily an act theres no active cover up investigation that we know of. We just know that the authority is there. I want to bring in also ken delaney, nbcs intelligence and National Security reporter, msnbc chief Legal Correspondent ari miller who is spokesman for the Justice Department under attorney general holder. Ari, so many things to talk about. But lets start with this conversation that happened inside the oval office. And i think one of the things we didnt touch on was that this is not something that we saw before where, for example, where a nversation came out because it was recorded by james comey. This was something that apparently was written down within the white house and circulated among a very small group of people. Thats right. Reading from the New York Times account which is not disputed by the white house at this hour, the president reportedly saying, quote, i fired the head of the fbi, he was crazy, a real nut job. I face great pressure because of russia, thats taken off. Im not under investigation. The headlines saying that its easing the pressure. This is donald trump drawing the length that his own aides so strenuously tried to deny to protect them and doing it to the very subjects of the inquiry who were told a counter tell and mixed criminal inquiry, him telling these people, these russian representatives, we dont have to worry about this because i fired comey. This is galling. Galling, but is it part of a case that could be built . Well, theres three things here. Theres what happened during the campaign. There is as you articulated whether an ongoing cover up or other activity, and then this third thing caused only by Donald Trumps words and conduct itself, the question of whether he is obstructing justice. That part legally is not really something the d. O. J. Would prioritize or the special counsel because the d. O. J. Doesnt normally look at whether the president has committed crimes and pursue it that way. If you got there and we are not there yet, that is something that congress does and its constitutional oversight powers. But the fact that there is this third layer and the fact we have a special counsel as we have reported throughout coverage is because of donald trump. And, so, thats important because while his supporters may be frustrated and they hear him discussing a witch hunt, there is no witch hunt. Its his own words and his own appointee, Rod Rosenstein, that is pursuing this through a special counsel. So, thats the other ckop. It is appropriate and matt miller having word to the d. O. J. Can weigh in on this. It is highly inappropriate for the president to prejudge the legitimacy of this inquiry as it goes and then to do so seeming to tell the russians who are, of course, subjects of the inquiry that its all good. Lets go to matt miller. What did you make of this when you read this . I think it is another piece of evidence that will help answer what is the most significant question in american politics today, and that is did the president of the United States commit a crime by trying to stop this investigation from Going Forward . And this will be another piece of evidence, his words to the russians along with his words to lester holt, along with his decision to fire jim comey, along with the fact he told jim comey asked him to stop the investigation of mike flynn. Those are all pieces of evidence to try to establish if thats what the president of the United States was trying to do. And while d. O. J. Typically d. O. J. Has decided in the past it wont it cannot prosecute the president , that thats an act for congress, i do think that thats something bob mueller can look at. If he finds evidence, what he would do is turn it over to congress. I think finally, were going to get a very quick clue from him as to whether thats what hes looking at. If we see jim comey not go testify in the coming weeks as hes been asked to do, if we see the fbi not turnover jim comeys memos to congress, i think thats likely because bob mueller has decided those are relevant to his investigation of a possible cover up and he doesnt want them turned over. Well, ken delaney, let me go to you because weve been talking about the pace of this investigation intensifying. But its hard for i think some lawyers, let alone regular people who are out there following politics, to figure out how many different layers of an investigation there are. Bring us up to date. Where are we now that youve added mueller into this whole mix . It is remarkable, chris. I should just add that nbc news confirmed a white house official has come under scrutiny in this investigation. Our sources are not revealing the identity of that official and, therefore, we dont know what conduct has come under suspicion. But what you have here is a sprawling Counter Intelligence im going to stop there. I think it bears repeating, we now have someone close to the president who is a person of particular interest in this investigation. Thats what were confirming . Exactly right, and thats pretty dramatic stuff. What you have here is a large Counter Intelligence and criminal investigation. And, you know, a lot of Trump Supporters and conservatives have been writing that they have seen no evidence of collusion with russia. Where is the beef for this thing . Show me evidence that anybody close to trump has colluded with this russian hacking and interference campaign. And theyre right about that, no such evidence has circulated publicly. But the thing about an fbi investigation, fbi agents are going to investigate crimes wherever they find them. And, so, we see with mike flynn who failed to disclose half a Million Dollars lobbying for the turkish government and we see with Paul Manafort who has some questionable real estate transactions that have come under scrutiny, the fbi is scrutinizing and those men are now at the forefront and the focus of this investigation that may also look at other crimes that have nothing to do with russia collusion and its all wrapped together, chris. Thats such a key point to put it in basic terms. If there is a Current White House official under this kind of scrutiny. The question is are they under scrutiny for what they did perhaps earlier in the campaign or for something they have done since joining the trump administration. Exactly, or for business dealings that arent particularly related to russia collusion. Once the fbi starts looking, theres no telling where this thing is going to go. And, matt, as they are looki looking you have a situation where clearly ill let you describe what you think is going on inside this white house. But the way the New York Times got their information is one official read quotations from this memo that was taken during the meeting between the president and the russians. A second official confirmed the broad outlines of the discussion. There cant be a ton of people within the white house who had access to that reporting of the information. What does it tell you about whats going on inside that white house . Its really stunning. I was actually the first thing i thought when i read that report, i was surprised someone sitting in the meeting actually took that as an official note and put it in the record, let alone that it leaked. I think weve seen a toxic environment in the white house, and were only getting started. Were just at the beginning of this investigation. This is going to get so much worse for the white house, there is going to be so much pressure on white house staff when they start getting called into the grand jury, when their emails and documents start getting subpoenaed by a special prosecutor. The pressure that can put on staffers and the pressure that it puts when they start wondering, you know, is one of my colleagues cooperating . Is one of my colleagues telling them about something i did . Takes what is already by any accounts not a very functional white house and is going to add layer upon layer of dysfunction on top of it. And you have a president who didnt seem to care about the optics of meeting with the Russian Ambassador. He personally defended it the day after he fired comey. And lester holt also asked the president about that, so, let me play it. Did you worry at all when you made the decision to fire comey when you did, the day before lavrov was here in the white house and the Russian Ambassador, did you think through the optics of a way this would look . I never thought about it. It was set up awhile ago. And, frankly, i could have waited, but what difference does it make . Matt, you were a spokesman at justice. The president s staff is on air force one right now. Under any circumstances, this is a complex and challenging trip. Theyve got not just us, theyve got the International Media to deal with. They have what we know to be a level of exhaustion from all the chaos over the weeks of this administration. Lets throw in jet lag for people who for maybe this is theyre normal folks who are going to be tired. And then in the matter of hours, you have three pretty big stories breaking. How do they even begin to handle that as they are embarking on his first foreign trip . I dont think we can overstate how important this would be under any circumstances. Yeah, under the best of circumstances these trips are very difficult to pull off. But these are far from the best of circumstances. They go into this trip with the stories that ran even before today following them everyone around the world follows what happens in american politics. They see what happens to the american president. These stories have been published in the post, mcclatchy, make it onto overseas broadcast. They bring that with them. Then to have this break while theyre there and lets be honest, i dont think anyone thinks that no story is going to break in the next week and a half while the president is gone. It is very likely there will be continued disclosures about this investigation that will disrupt press conferences that the president has with heads of state when hes trying to send a message and instead hes asked about the newest developments of this russia investigation. It disrupts everything that theyre trying to do. It makes it very difficult for the white house. And, again, this is not a white house that was functioning at a particularly high level anyway, and this will just make it so much more difficult. And one more point, chris. This goes beyond optics which is something we always talk about in politics. It goes to the mental state of the president. And one thing investigators look at is do you act in a way that shows a potential consciousness of guilt or do you act in some other manner. So, ignorance and incompetence are often legal defenses because maybe you just didnt know what you were doing. The problem with these reports and these accounts and the way the president is conducting himself is they increasingly have evidence that he is aware that things look bad, that he perhaps does want to hide things. When you ask the attorney general, the chief Law Enforcement officer of the United States to leave the room so you can have a discussion with someone who reportedly youve asked for loyalty oath for and then you terminate them, and then you tell people who are in charge of the Foreign Policy operations of a Foreign Government accused of meddling in our elections, you tell them that this is now being eased, these things add up to look like a very negative mental state from a investigative per sp perspective. Ive not prejudging where the investigation goes. If your defense is going to be i didnt know what i was doing. To matts point people are apparently putting things in an official record, you wonder what were they thinking to put Something Like that in an official record. Theyre not thinking theyre trying to protect donald trump. Maybe theyre trying to protect themselves. Great panel. Thanks to you. So, how are democrats in congress responding to todays bomb shell stories . Were going to talk to congressman Hakeem Jeffries from the judiciary committee. Does the president need a personal lawyer . The white house meeting on that question has already happened. We are going to tell you about it. Also, why the president talking about domestic fbi issues, why with Russian Diplomats . Whats the kremlins angle in all this . Thats ahead, too. This is a story about mail and packages. And its also a story about people and while we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget. That your business is our business the United States postal service. Priority you i had a very minor fender bender tonight in an unreasonably narrow fast food drive thru lane. But what a powerful life lesson. 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