Transcripts For MSNBCW The Week With Joshua Johnson 20210117

Iraq and afghanistan combined. Tens of thousands of National Guardsmen are assisting the secret service with preinauguration security. The capitol is surrounded by ninefoot fencing and barbed wire. Meanwhile, were continuing to learn more about a breaking story tonight. Yesterday a virginia man was arrested at a security checkpoint near the capitol. He had an inauguration pass that is being described as unauthorized. Also an unregistered gun and more than 500 rounds of ammunition. Well have more on that in just a moment. This week donald trump became the first president to be impeached twice. Some of his congressional allies may well play a role in defending him during his next senate trial. The details are still in the works, but his team could include ohio congressman jim jordan and florida congressman matt gaetz. Well explore the constitutional issues at question in his upcoming trial. And well answer some of your questions as well. Lets begin with the latest on that man arrested near the capitol. Nbcs Vaughn Hillyard is here in washington with more on that. Vaughn, tell us what we know right now. Reporter joshua, this was a young man who was stopped at a security checkpoint, at which were told that he showed a noncredentialed government i. D. Of course it was not an inaugurationauthorized pass to get through. But that is where Law Enforcement ultimately arrested and charged the man because he was in possession of an unlicensed firearm with 500 rounds of ammunition. That gentleman has since been released and has told authorities that he was working in private security here. But i think what this incident speaks to is the Security Apparatus that has been built up around the capitol. It was just ten days ago that an insurrection took place in which there were fatal flaws made by Law Enforcement in the protection of not only the u. S. Capitol infrastructure but also the lives that were at risk and ultimately, multiple individuals died at the scene of the u. S. Capitol. Now, just fast forward, were only four days away now from inauguration day. The biden team still says that the president elect intends to take the oath of office outside, on the west front of the u. S. Capitol. We should note the National Mall grounds will be closed and a perimeter has been set up here around the greater d. C. Area. This is as far as the general public can get to the u. S. Capitol right here. But what you see is more than 9,500 National Guardsmen already on site. The department of defense says that number could reach 25,000 by this wednesday. You have local Law Enforcement agencies working with federal agencies. You have barriers that have been set up. If one were to take a walk down washington streets here during the day, it is essentially a ghost town. And that is why that arrest of that individual is notable, because it was u. S. Capitol police sending the signal that an individual, we still do not know the extent to which this individual posed a threat, but at this time it is seeming to suggest that it was just an individual with an unlicensed firearm and ammunition. But those in that sort of situation should be wary about coming into washington, d. C. Right now. It is very quiet in the streets around here. The most traffic that i saw on the streets nearby was just locals on their bicycles coming to take pictures of the cordons and then move on. Thank you, vaughn. Thats nbcs Vaughn Hillyard starting us off here in washington. The Washington Post is reporting that three days before the capitol riot, the u. S. Capitol police had intelligence warning of a violent scenario. The intel said that congress could be the target of angry mobs of trump supporters. Lets continue now with Carol Leonnig, a political Investigative Reporter for the Washington Post. Shes coauthor of the book a very stable genius donald j. Trumps testing of america. And she is an msnbc contributor. Carol, its good to see you. I wonder if we could start with i think the obvious question that everybody seems to be asking right now. Actually, two obvious questions. One, were the Capitol Police just flat out incompetent in this . And two, does this support the idea that someone on the inside helped the rioters on the outside get in . Could you take on those two questions first . I think that joshua, chief sund, the former Capitol Police chief who was on watch the day this all unfolded in such a tragic way, four deaths that day, a woman shot, Police Officer killed, others dozens of Police Officers injured, one who had a mild heart attack trying to fend everyone off, i think that chief would tell you if he were with you tonight it was a absolute colossal failure. Now, he would also say, and many other of my sources say this too, that they tried to do something a little different. They were worried about the size of the protests this day. Of the three protests that were protrump maga rallies, essentially, over the last few weeks, this was the one that was supposed to be the biggest. And the Capitol Police decided that they would bring in Emergency National guard, or at least the chief thought thats what he would do. But his bosses, who are political operatives, sergeants at arms who answer to the leadership of the house and the senate, werent comfortable with this idea of putting the National Guard on emergency standby. And that proved to be a fatal flaw, a fatal failure, because if those National Guard had been on deck on wednesday as the chief requested, this could have played out very differently. They could have held this group at bay until potentially reinforcements arrived. But that didnt happen. I want to make sure i heard you correctly, carol, in what you said. It sounds like what you said was that the chief of the Capitol Police, a sworn Law Enforcement officer, saw the need for a larger protective presence at the capitol. He ran that up the chain to the sergeant at arms who is a political appointee of the congressional leadership, and thats where the idea fell apart . So someone in Law Enforcement saw the need, and a politico above him said no. Did i hear you right . You absolutely did. There is another thing about your question, joshua, though, which is that failure. This Capitol Police intel unit, so its really the polices own, you know, intelligence gathering experts, they warned of the perfect storm that actually happened. They warned exactly, and they predicted exactly three days before it unfolded. They said these were the key elements of that perfect storm. One, that people who are protrump were viewing january 6th and that event as a desperate last effort, a lastditch chance to change the results of the election when lawmakers gathered to certify. Two, they were egged on by one of the most important and highprofile supporters you can imagine, President Trump himself. Third, this group had been talking online about preparing for an armed combat. Their organizers were telling each other to bring weapons that they could reassemble on the scene and this intel unit found they were also talking about bringing reinforced bulletproof vests that are used to fend off rifle rounds, they were told to bring gas masks. Thats a group armed for war. And fourth and finally, joshua, sorry its a long list, the other part of the perfect storm is that this group was targeting Something Different than they ever had before. In the past there could be skirmishes between protrump and antitrump groups, socalled counterprotesters. But this was the first time they had intelligence at the Capitol Police that the target was congress. No matter whether they were gop lawmakers in there or not. Definitely a report worth reading. I have a feeling well need some more help making sense of the timeline of this as more facts come out. Carol leonnig of the Washington Post. Carol, good to see you. Thank you. Thank you, joshua. Lets switch gears now to the second impeachment of President Trump. Clearly lots of us have questions about this. Elizabeth asks, does conviction automatically result in not being able to run for office or is that a separate vote . And does impeachment and conviction have any impact on potential for civil or criminal charges after he leaves office . Good questions. To help us answer those and more, were joined by jeffrey rosen, the president and ceo of the National Constitution center and a professor at the George Washington University School of law. Professor rosen, good evening, good to see you. Great to see you too. Lets start with those questions. How would you respond to elizabeth . Great questions from elizabeth. On the first, yes, there do have to be two separate votes. First, the senate would have to vote by a twothirds majority to convict President Trump. And then it would vote separately, and you only need a majority for this, about whether to disqualify him from holding any future office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States. The second question, does the impeachment affect civil or criminal liability, not formally. Remember, the president cannot pardon himself from an impeachment trial. The selfpardon might not work for a federal charge, the Justice Department has said it wouldnt be valid. But he could try to raise that defense in a federal trial but not in an impeachment trial. Lets see how many of these questions we can get through. One of our viewers wants to know, if trump is impeached in the senate and forbidden from running for president again could he still run for governor of a state . Great question. And the answer is yes, that the constitution says honor, trust, or profit under the United States. It does not bar him from Holding State office. Another viewer wants to know, will trump be eligible to receive Intelligence Briefings after leaving office as other former president s are . Is impeachment the only way to stop that . He is eligible. And impeachment would stop it because he would lose all the perks of the office including his travel allowance and salary. I dont know whether President Biden has the diskregs to xluz former president s from receiving Intelligence Briefings on intelligence grounds. One of the arguments we expect his defense to make is the trial is moot once he leaves office. Whats your sense of whether or not a former president can be tried under the impeachment process . So this is going to be an important question because senator cotton signaled this may be the big defense of the gop senators who dont want to vote to convict. Theyre going to say, i dont have to take a position on guilt because the senate doesnt have jurisdiction. Now, its an open question. The argument for the senate not being able to try is the penalty is removal and disqualification from office. Its that and. So the theory is if you cant remove you cant disqualify. The argument on the other side is that it would be silly for someone to be able to avoid the penalty of disqualification just by resigning moments before an impeachment trial. The secretary of war tried that in 1876 and the senate didnt buy the argument and tried him anyway. The bottom line is if the senate decides it does have jurisdiction, the Supreme Court is unlikely to intervene, so its all up to the senators and it will be interesting to see how many of them use this jurisdictional defense to avoid having to take a position on whether or not President Trump is guilty. A few more constitutional questions before i have to let you go. Lets take a look at the text that has to do with the margin of victory for a conviction. It says, quote, no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of twothirds of the members present. So if some senators choose to be absent, to stay home and avoid the vote, does that alter the amount of people that are needed for conviction . Is it possible some senators could be like, count me out, i have nothing to say, and then the democrats could just go for the people who are in the room at the time . You know, that is a great question. Some of it may have to do with senate rules about when the senate is allowed to hold a vote and they may require a certain quorum. But if you read the text as you just did, it seems to say the members present. So maybe you could try to avoid responsibility by not showing up. Very interesting. One last question. Some folks one of our viewers actually brought up the 14th amendment of the constitution. And the third section of the 14th amendment basically says that if you were an elected officer under the constitution, federal officer, and you engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof, youre disqualified, you cant run again automatically. Congress can override that with a twothirds majority vote. Before i have to let you go, does that make this whole process moot . I mean, could democrats in the house and senate have said, you know, the constitution disqualified you just because of what you did, so you know, depart from me, we know ye not. Or do we still have to go through this process . It is possible that indeed the house and senate could disqualify the president from holding future office under the section 3 of the 14th amendment. That does appear to only require a majority vote of both houses. That might be challenged in court and the Supreme Court might have questions about whether he actually did incite an insurrection. But bottom line, its a very plausible alternative line of disqualification and there too, the Supreme Court might just not choose to intervene. Jeffrey rosen, president and ceo of the National Constitution center and a professor at the George Washington University School of law, always good to talk to you, thank you very much. Thanks for the great questions. Still to come this hour, how could so many Law Enforcement agencies have been so unprepared for the riot at the capitol when, as Carol Leonnig tells us, the intelligence was right there in front of them . A former director of the National Security Council Joins us ahead. Also, youll meet the man who documented two presidencies as a white house photographer. Pete souza has been more vocal about his political views in recent years. Well find out why in just a few minutes. But first, richard lui is here with the headlines. Hey, richard. Good evening to you, skrosh wa. Some stories watching for at this hour. President elect biden announced the role of science adviser will be elevated to a cabinetlevel position for the first time. Biden nominated math that ma advertising and geneticist eric lander to that post. Hospitals across the u. S. Have thrown thousands of coid vaccines out. 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