Transcripts For MSNBCW Up With David Gura 20190811

Immigration. When trump talks about throwing millions of people out of this country, not only do you not get away with that, if you did it, the entire economy of this country would collapse. This is the first weekend of the iowa state fair. They are tailoring their message to fairgoers, knowing that come february 3rd, they will be caucus show. The guy with the pea and the shell game, second time he comes back, you understand. Everybody knows who donald trump is. It is sunday, august 11th. And this is apparently what prompted President Trump to attack wacko comedian bill maher. Dayton and el paso, reeling from two disasters. A mass shooting and a trump visit. Hes going on a wellearned vacation. Scott bolden, the former chairman of the democratic party. And Senior Writer for the bailey beast. Maria he maria hinojosa. And ashley is on the board of republican women for progress. We begin with the latest on the death of Jeffrey Epstein and the controversy surrounding the circumstances of his death. Questions remain. And theres conspiracy theories. And President Trump gave credence to one of them on twitter. In a statement, bill barr says he is appalled by the news of epsteins death. This week, the Justice Department will investigate how a highprofile inmate could die by apparent suicide when he was in custody. Victims and accusers will wonder what will happen next in court. A lawyer for some of the victims released this statement. Victims deserve to be made whole for the life long damage he caused. We are just getting started. You and your colleagues have done fine reporting in all facets of this story. Where does this go in court . Where do we go from here . As part of the conspiracy charge, there were people that were involved who aided him or helped him along the way. They made clear that the conspiracy charges exist and are investigating and are looking for people who assisted. The brave, young people who have come forward and the many others that have yet to do so, we remain committed of standing for you and the investigation of the conduct charged in the indictment, that included a conspiracy count that remains ongoing. Let me turn to what happened here. The daily beast, all these outlets reporting. How extraordinary is it to you, as somebody who has been a lawyer for a long way. In the criminal justice system. Former prosecutor in new york, as well. Familiar with that jail. On its face, looks like gross negligence. He was on homicide watch. He went off suicide watch after five to seven days. Even when youre off suicide watch and youre there, theres counseling and analysis. They have people who they put with you to observe you and discuss with you because you tried to commit suicide before. This sounds like gross negligence. But i think this. And im not a conspiracy theorist by any means. You can leave the table. Who would not with the release of these documents, including bill clinton or donald trump, or anyone else of power, that he hung around with, all of those people had an interest. But none of them were in the jail. A broader conspiracy sounds like a movie script, if you will. Its others under investigation right now that you dont know but the feds know theyre under investigation. You could not have this individual trafficking in darkness, sex, underage girls, nationwide at homes and other places, without assistance from others, including those who may have participated in these bad acts. This investigation is far from over. His death is devastating for the victims. It continues and the civil suits will continue, as well. On the issue of disappointment, you were on here as all of this news unfolded. And i imagine you have time to think about that. There was a prospect for a day in court for Jeffrey Epstein. Thats not going to happen. How do we address that disappointment. Im thinking of an interview i did in 2012, with a woman on the front lines, focusing on International Human sex trafficking in mexico. But because its mexico, its a web. She feared for her life. She was exposing what was going on and was in danger. I said to her, how does this really look . And she said, its like an international corporation. You have a ceo up here. And he has all of his people and hes up here. And theyre normal people. Theyre people you would be surprised to know about. And its Jeffrey Epstein at the top. I do not buy it is smalltime that it was a few young girl s here and there. Its a Human Trafficking scheme that became this is money, actually. These people beings that were hearing about, girls being forced to have sex. And that will be a big part of the investigation. We didnt talk about that. Finding his money, how he made his money, and where that money is stored because the estate right now is trying to figure that out, as well, because he was secretive, based on the reports. Ashley propertatt, this is a chapter in a very long story. You read the accounts and you see, brought to bear, the difficulty that the victims have coming forward with their stories. What is the message from this, now that theyve been through that difficulty. The times that were living, the metoo era, its important that the victims have a chance to be heard. I think thats why theres anger and not outpouring of were sorry hes dead. These victims wont see their day. And the more that the attorneys that are there, representing the victims, do, to try to get the justice. I hear theyre going after the estate. Hopefully these stories come out. But the real story is enabling. You look at Jeffrey Epstein and the girlfriend, who was peddling these women around. Thats where we need to focus our attention, is the enabling of this kind of behavior. Theres new reporting that 14 contacts in his phone are tied back directly to jumps inntrum circle. It will be interesting how he handles this. Has he been enabling this to you . You can look at the tapes that came out from the election. You can grab them by the you know what. That behavior again has been encouraged by society for long enough. Thats what needs to be talked about here. Victims getting their day and the enabling culture needs to be destroyed. What do you look at monday morning . Bill barr is going to talk to the Inspector General. An fbi investigation, and a investigation at the local level, as well. Where do you go from here . Is it to the girlfriend assistant helper . Strange relationship. Its an enormous universe of people floating around. You have to be looking at who are these people that were aiding Jeffrey Epstein . And how was this allowed to happen . He was in a federal facility, in one of the most tightly secured places in that federal facility. He just came off being on suicide watch, who determined he was coming off suicide watch. How were they able to determine that. I think you were looking at what the medical examiner is going to determine. Is it suicide or not suicide . Can we get pictures of this . Why is the news media not being given access to photographs of cells at mcc . You cant tell us its not for a security reason. We want to see a picture of the cell where he was held. We want to see a picture of the notarized autopsy. Ashley was like, thats a rude awakening. On my whatsapp, pictures of the body. Or the logs. Every 15 minutes. What went on here . Where are the logs that show what staffers were coming in and out. Who was doing the routine checks . Who took him off suicide watch . Interviews with the guards who were supposed to be watching him. I will ask you quickly. Theres remarkable pieces here in the post this morning. One of which is anonymous in that facility. He describes it as a kennel. Didnt want his family there. It was a place where god wasnt present. What is the facility like . In that piece, its anonymous. Former inmate says. There were guards that knew you were being broken and broke you further. I dont think this is facility thats any different than any other. This is a jail. Its a penitentiary. I dont think god should be everywhere. But this might not be gods most favorite place. If you will. Secondly, its all about enforcement. And rehabilitation is not at the top of the agenda list, if you will. Its not supposed to be a pleasant place. If you look at brubaker, hopefully weve gotten past that. But this is a brutal place. And its a place for very, very bad people. El chapo was there and others have been there. The prisoners make it dangerous. Its dangerous for sex offenders, right . More so than any other criminal. They cant be in general population. Children. Everybody knows in the prison, that is the person who is targeted. Let me ask you, have you have any of the people youve put into prison, have you told you, theres a place where you can hang something . Theres no place to hang anything. I mean, its like the country is being gaslighted. The president will be very creative. He was in a suicideproof room. But why isnt every room or prison cell suicideproof . They can be very creative. Sex offenders, because of the very nature, they are most likely, to commit suicide based on the embarrassment and degradation and whats about to come out. Remember, Julian Epstein Jeffrey Epstein was about to experience a lot of degradation and a lot of embarrassment. The day after the papers came out. That trevor trove of documents and stuff. Its not that hard. When youre on suicide watch, they have a special room. But it ought to be in every case. People think about committing suicide in prison before you get a longterm sentence. Somebody who was in prison with bill cosby. He said, i thought about suicide, i couldnt figure out how to do it. And part of defending them is talking to them about those suicidal feelings because the defense attorney, like myself, will talk to the bureau of prisons about, listen, or tell a judge, my client ought to be on suicide watch. Have to leave it there because of time. Thanks for the reporting. Much more to come on up. The rare moment of unity. Democrats rallying around changes to gun policy. First, more raids and deportations. Our next guest asks, what warrants this display of intimidation . Intimidation dramatic music and youre saving money, because you bundled home and auto. Sarah, get in the house. Were all here for you. All all day, all night. dramatic music great job speaking calmly and clearly everyone. Thats how you put a customer at ease. 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Im david gura. And President Trump has reportedly asked immigration and Custom Enforcement officials to pick more targets for raids. Hundreds of workers at poultry processing plants in mississippi. The government separated children and parents. The president s efforts through intimidation began in 2015 through his campaign kickoff. After he was elected, he signed that executive order, banning travel from five muslim countries. He imposed that zero tolerance policy that separated families at the u. S. mexico border. In october of 2018, he started construction on the fortification along the border. And in may, he announced plans to aid to three countries in central america. When joyce vance was a u. S. Attorney in alabama, she was asked to approve the raids like the ones we saw in mississippi. She decided not to do that. And she is here to explain why. Walk us through what you weighed and why you decided against going ahead with that raid. Federal prosecutors have broad jurisdiction. A lot of responsibility. You have to be involved in cases that involves all sorts of crimes. A whole range of cases. And you have limited resources. You have to find a way to exercise your discretion wisely and focus your resources on the crimes that are the most dangerous. And the defendants that are the most culpable. You think about the raids and think about who you should be prosecuting. Thats the employers. I dont think theres anyone that would disagree with the notion that we should be making cases on the employers who violate the law and bring people in from out of the country in many cases. Thats not what i was presented with. I was in a situation where they rounded up people with few prosecutions. It didnt seem like a wise use of resources to me at the time. We may see some prosecutions of the employers. In mississippi, they did that once before in 2008 and 2009. Theres no need to do this type of a raid to get to that prosecution of the employer. I heard you say bingo. The priorities are misplaced here. Completely. We need to be in these countries to stem the tide. Im a business democrat. If you want to stop the demand, you have to start prosecuting the businesses. In mississippi, the Poultry Companies in the last 20 years, actively conspired and broadcast and recruited immigrant, illegal or illegal, from past the southern border to come and work and then turn a blind eye. The everify is easy to get around, if you have a legitimate name and a legitimate Social Security. To put the pressure on the companies to enforce e verify the right way, or enforce illegal immigration, is the key. If im a company and i get prosecuted for actively recruiting or having Illegal Immigrants in my plant, you can get six months. You can get a 3,000 fine. Its worth breaking the law. Nobody is doing it. Have we seen anybody led away from the corporations in their suits and ties . Its not happening. Those images of the children, these are american children. I want people to know that. People are saying, look at the immigrant children. Look how sad. No. These are american children. Those are american citizens more than likely because their parents have been in mississippi for a decade. Born and raised here. The fact that you have a quarter of children missing from mississippi schools, its about our children not getting educated. What is crazy for someone like me because i love what you did with trump. This has been going on, ad nauseam. Its been going on for a long, long time. This kind of fear. So, this is not new. Whats new is were spending 15 minutes talking about this. A visibility that people are saying, whoa, latinos, can we talk about this . Quickly on that point. And a former colleague of mine, li lulu garcia know var rnovarro. In the New York Times, when trump spoke, it was double bolded, allblock letters. It should have said, latinos targeted and massacred. First time in modern history. My precinct in harlem. There was a park party. I live near a park. Its a park party. And the police, at 9 00 at night, in my community, started going through the park with their lights on and their sirens going i walked up i should have walked away. I said calmly, officer, can you tell me whats going on . Just got a little rowdy. I said, do you understand whats happening with this community . The fact that youre doing this with the lights on and the flashlights, this is a community thats under trauma. What do you mean . Well, what just happened, im a journalist this has nothing topaso. Im going to go and have a meeting with the captain of the precinct and sit down with that sergeant, with love, to say latinos and latinas right now are terrified. Im sorry. Will have to leave it there. Thank you for joining us from birmingham. She wrote about this for the washington post. Its a piece i commend she made when obama was in the white house. It was 2010 when Mitch Mcconnell said his goal was to make barack obama a oneterm president. So began the breakdown of what was the worlds greatest deliberative body. The senate is an approval factory for President Trumps administrative nominees. Ctory f administrative nominees. Fundraising. Giving back. Subaru and our retailers have given over one hundred and sixtyfive Million Dollars to charity. We call it our love promise. And its why you dont even have to own a subaru to love a subaru retailer. Subaru. More than a car company. Dprevagen is the number onemild memopharmacistrecommendedng . Memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Were pretty different. Were all unique in our own ways. Somos muy diferentes. Muy diferentes. vo verizon knows everyone in your family is different. There are so many of us doing so many different things. vo thats why verizon lets everyone mix and match different unlimited plans. Sebastians the gamer. Sebastian. This is my office. vo and now with more plans, everyone gets what they need without paying for things they dont. New plans start at just 35. The plan is so reasonable, they could stay on for the rest of their lives. Aww, did you get that on camera . Thanks, dad vo the network more people rely on gives you more. Im just a bill yes, im only a bill and im sitting here on capitol hill well, its a long, long journey to the capital city its a long, long wait while im sitting in committee while im sitting in committee. These days, bills seem to sit on Mitch Mcconnells desk. I suggest an update. We have regressed. And theres widespread agreement the senate is broken. Heres patrick leahy, frustrated by the lack of whats called regular order. Heres a copy of the rules. The reason i have a copy of the rules, is every republican voted for these rules. Tear them up. Tear them up. Thats what were doing. Heres another example. Senate republican leader Mitch Mcconnell refusing to consider merrick garland. One of my proudest moments was when i looked barack obama in the eye and said you will not fill this vacancy. It was a different story with brett kavanaugh. And lets not forget when ted cruz did this on the senate floor. Do you like green eggs and ham . I do not like them, sam i am. I do not like green eggs and ham. Would you like them here or there . I would not like them here or there. I would not like them anywhere. A moment in 2017. Lets turn to you first ashley. Were having a conversation about the policy of gun policy. The senate on vacation. Mitch mcconnell calling himself the grim reaper. My question is, why should we have optimism, when this in its broken state can be remodeled for key policy . I dont know if we can be optimistic. Thats the real problem here. People care about keeping their jobs. People in our districts may not like how we vote. You were elected to do a job. Thats why we got trump in the first place. They thought, washington is broken. We need to shake things up. Things need to move and happen. This should be a reminder to all of the Republican Voters out there, nothing is changing and nothing is getting done. The i. C. E. Raids may look good at the campaign rallies, but theres no policy changes happening to fix our broken immigration in this country. And same thing with guns. Tragedy after tragedy, no policy, no change. Its hope, prayers, thoughts, love. Those things are great. But theyre not great if theyre not influencing our policy. I want to talk about institutional destruction as policy. But he wanted to blow it up, for lack of a better term. We have policymakers content saying they will destroy the thing. Or get rid of the department of education . Thats something that republicans were champions. And they put betsy devos in there and she cant speak to education policy. Its embarrassing. You look at whats happening. And republicans want to blow up the systems. This is a culture of republicans working with the others and democrats working with the others. A lot of people feeling like myself. I used to vote as a republican. Im an independent. I was always a nevertrumper and still am. The problem is, that more people are finding themselves in the middle space of i want nothing to do with politics anymore. And thats a dangerous place. People then become apathetic. Theres a lot of disconcern about whats going on in our federal government. You have a president who makes a mockery of the presidency. Theres that decorum. And no professionalism. People are showing up to congress and thats a problem. Its sending a message that you do not want to do your job or do what you were sent there to do. Government doesnt do anything for the American People anymore. You turn to disappointment. Im going back to el paso where i was last week. My league named it the latino 9 11. There was a american who went on his way own to a walmart known as the mexican walmart. I was surprised to hear multiple el pasoens or live in juarez, that were pointing out puerto rico. For people in the region, they will know what im talking about. For people in the middle of a tragedy, theyre saying, i am thinking that trump threw paper towels at the people in puerto rico and realize were all one. For mexicans to be identifies with Puerto Ricans in puerto rico, very important. My point is this, florida, texas. In terms of the senate. A tragedy does multiple things. It can be the antithesis to apathy. But people were saying, im definitely voting. Latinos, Puerto Ricans in central florida, voting. Latinos in texas. Those two states could be in play. Whats disturbing is the politicization of these mass killings. Im thinking about the humanitarian part of this thing. Mitch mcconnell is a an immoral and shameful leader of the senate, when he doesnt come back after 30 people were killed and latinos are the target of it. They wont do an assault ban. What are you saying to the families that have been killed . The hundreds that have been killed. When there was an Assault Rifle ban in 1994 to 2004, you had 12 incidents and 89 deaths. From 2004 to 2014, postban, right . Youve seen the statistics. 34 ziincidents and 302 deaths. People are dying. And more people are going to die. While the senate waits until september to come and deal with assault ban rifles, as well as Mental Health waits. Right . By then, we will have none to it. The nra will be the last to whisper in the president s ear and Mitch Mcconnells ear and the killing will go on. And its shameful and awful that we have the power to do something about it, the leadership that has failed us and people will continue to die. If you dont do anything about it, as a senate leader, a republican gop and dems, if you dont do anything about it, youre worse than the shooter. Think about it. Youre worse than the shooter. You want to wait 30 days . Its outrageous. This is embarrassing. It is emotional. Save your prayers and condolences. The next come forward, i dont want them. Give me a vote and make me feel safe in this country. Ill ask you, ashley, if you have optimism. You have been in politics. Seen this go through time and time again. Is there anything about this . Yes. 2020 is coming. The democrats have an excellent opportunity to take over the senate. I was going to say, the democrats have to do a lot of reckoning themselves. Exactly. If we elect more moderates. No more left and right, moderates committed to getting something done. If you get them elected, we can get something done. It may not be everything. But we can get it gradually. Thats how america worked. Thats how the senate and the house worked well. Right now, its not only working well, it is a complete failure. And everyone at this table ought to be embarrassed about whats going on. Ashley, let me move into what happened in iowa. Democrats talking about this issue. This hasnt been a front and center issue for many cycles. Candidates making their way to iowa. What does that say to you, about the newness of the moment and the recognition of the fact that politics as usual isnt going to work . Im going to liken this to the metoo movement. No one is talking about that anymore. Every town hosted this. And people didnt go to the state fair to talk about this. This sickens me. I tweeted this every day. Pu Bulletproof Backpack sales are up in this country. The fact that our leaders are doing nothing is scaring people enough to purchase Bulletproof Backpacks to send their child off to school. As someone who hopes to have children, thinking about doing that and sending your child off to school because the leaders in congress do nothing to make sure that your child is safe, is a real issue. Thats where my optimism doesnt exist. The more the shootings happen, every town hosts the town halls. Nothing gets accomplished. Im glad its a front and center issue. But we need to talk about children being afraid to go to school and coming home and asking their parents very difficult questions. As a parent, it must be difficult to try to anxiouswer, knowing you cannot provide your child with safety. And the nra wants to give them more guns now. The people in el paso and dayton, each of them had an opportunity to have a gun right now. You looked at the footage of how that happened in dayton . The police were there in 30 seconds. 60 seconds. Im so glad to have you here. We were both in el paso last week. Maybe we can take the conversation there, as well. I will notice the oddness of it. Theres the work you have to do initially, and you begin to empathize with what it must have been like to walk in a store, buying whatever you were buying there, to think that through. Talk about how you process that. People were reckoning with the fact, the largest killing of latinos and what that made them think about. When i first got there, it was solemn. And people were arriving and i asked how youre doing. Im shocked, im traumatized and now im angry. There were mexican folk song tales about moments in history that help us heal. Its people writing about this. The people in el paso, i was here in september 11th. As a journalist, this is part of my job. I dont have a problem hugging somebody that tells me, i worked in that walmart. I dont have a job now. I dont know where im going and im so scared. Hugging her and saying ruth, hernand hernandez, who works at the h l walmart, and whispering in her ear, i said after september 11th, new yorkers had to look at each other and say to each other with their eyes, so, youre going to do that here. You have to allow yourself to cry. Cry in the shower if you dont want your kids to see you. Allow yourself to be with the grief. It will be a while. Latinos and latinas are still in a state of trauma. The power of the moment and the power of the tragic acts. People went to walmart and did not go back. The mexican walmart. People have gone to Movie Theaters and not come back. The power of not coming back, just to absorb that. If your boyfriend went to run an errand and didnt come back. Its incredible. Its policy in terms of immigrants. Democrats and republicans, those from gun states. Not only letting this happen but doing nothing to stop it. Wall street posting its worst loss this year. President trump throwing more fuel on that fire. Well be right back. Be right ba. And this is me now any physical changes to this mans appearance are purely coincidental. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. A cockroach can survive heresubmerged ttle guy. Underwater for 30 minutes. Wow. Yeah. Not getting in today. Terminix. Defenders of home. This is up. Im david gura. Theres more doubt about the future of the trading relationship between the two largest economies, china and the United States. Were doing very well with china. Were talking with china. Were not ready to make a deal. But we have an open dialogue. Well see if we keep our meeting in september. If we do, thats fine. If we dont, thats fine. Comments from President Trump, during a week, when china canceled purchases of Agricultural Products and allowing its currency to weaken against the dollar. Michael foulkes is now a senior fellow at the center for american progress. Hes also an unpaid adviser to senator Elizabeth Warrens x campaign for president. I had a talk to you in the garden. The incoherence of trumps approach has done nothing to advance our goals with china. That becomes clearer and clearer. He talks about a meeting in is going to happen in september. Help us understand the consequences of the kind of an action weve seen. In washington, d. C. These days, theres a race to be tough. Everyone wants to be tough on china, and for good reason. Theres a wide variety of issues that we need to address with china. You look at almost any issue the way this president has tried to tackle it, when it comes to china, its been a disaster. The trade war, first example. Right now, you can see what a disaster that is. Twothirds of the American Public would rather be investing in america, than putting tariffs on china. Its counterproductive. If you go to other aspects of the relationship. Champion told the press he doesnt care what happens in hong kong. He told the press, thats an personal matter for china. Theres tear gas being shot at protesters in hong kong right now. The other thing thats dangerous, is impact on life here in america. You read the stories the last few years. The fbi and other authorities have increased pressure they are putting on citizens of the United States. Chinese americans and others with connections. People with dies ties with chin. Scientists getting fired because of their relationships. All of this is dangerous when trying to look at our relationship with china. My last question, i mentioned the importance of the relationship. The president stopping in the hampton for fundraisers. Now, in tthe New York Post getting a readout. Ill talk from the piece. Trump made fun of allies, mimicking japanese accents and talking about the current ruler of saudi arabia. What do we do with a president that doesnt understand the gravity of this relationship . The only thing to do is to vote him out of office, david, come 2020. Everyone needs to be making clear, not just the public and the white house. But to many of congress, as well. This is a dangerous path were on. You mentioned his love of dictators that he bends over backwards. You mentioned japan and korea. Theres a trade war going on between the two closest allies, japan and south korea. Combined with the trade war, this is disastrous for the American Economy and the Global Economy that we saw in the fed rate cut. I thought there was fleeting engagement with all of the issues. These are issues that require sis stained and keep longterm engagement. I want to take us back to when he was on the campaign trail and said he was going to put the very best people on these jobs. And theres such turnover there. As he is dismantling things that are a part of our economy. He doesnt understand the gravity of this stuff. His message on everything is an us versus them. Thats what he is drawn by. Anytime he can act on us versus them, thats what he will do. Its dangerous. Look at what happened with stocks this week. The one glimmer of hope is that people vote on the economy. Its the strongest thing in trumps favor. If tariffs are talked about, this is a smart thing for the democrats to do, and do louder in states like iowa and new hampshire, tariffs are attacks. As soon as he says people are excited because the paychecks are higher and taxes are lower. On consumer goods, they will be higher. You spend that paycheck and youre spending more than you were before. You got 30 seconds. Tie it up for us. The democrats have to understand that they have to have one clear message. The messaging of the democrats is confusing. Youre right. Its a great argument but they need to come up with the messaging and come up with the connection in workers in iowa, farmers in iowa. Theyre the ones suffering. Thanks for coming up to new york. Mike foulkes, joining us from washington, d. C. Great piece for the guardian, i will tweet it out. When we come back, the deluge of the questions being asked of the apparent suicide. And Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers will join us to talk about gun control. Memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. You wouldnt accept from any one else. Why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. Flonase. Staining be done. Behr presents outdone yourself. And stay done through every season. Behr semitransparent stain. Find it exclusively at the home depot. [fa mers bell] burke a rock and wreck. Seen it. Covered it. At farmers insurance, we know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Key. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. Chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or lifethreatening allergic and skin reactions. Decrease alcohol use. Use caution driving or operating machinery. Tell your doctor if youve had Mental Health problems. The most common side effect is nausea. Quit smoking slow turkey. Talk to your doctor about chantix. This is up. Im david gura. This morning, theres a lot of questions about Jeffrey Epsteins death. The circumstances surrounding it are the subject of investigations by the fbi, the Justice Department and the new york city medical examiner. At the time of his death, epstein was not on suicide watch at the correctional center. It happened after thousands of pages of Court Documents were released to the public, detailing and mentioning many power of men. Many of the victims and accusers are feeling frustrated. One of them is angry that Jeffrey Epstein will never face the consequences of the crimes he committed. He had friends in high places. One accuser claims she was recruited at maralago, the president s estate. Jeffrey epstein and the president were friends. Epstein flew on one of president clintons airplanes. This morning, we continue to wonder about the men and women in epsteins orbit and what they knew and know. His socalled little black book is an important code. Gawker published its contents. Its 92 pages of names, emails and phone numbers. And wall street people comprise a significant amount of the entries. Epstein made the nearly 600 million that he and his attorneys listed on his unaudited and unverified financial statement. Bill cohen joins me now, along with clint watts, special agent and analyst. Pete dominick is the host of the show standup on serioirius xm. There could be clues and areas of inquiry that are sourced. What does it tell us . David, thank you for having me this morning. Secondly, its not exactly clear what the purpose of that book was. Some people tell me, people availed themselves of Jeffrey Epsteins quote unquote services. Some say it was an aspirational list, people that epstein wanted to know. I think its the former. People he was in regular contact with and availed of his services. A lot of the wall street maims on that list are probably breathing a bit of a sigh of relief this morning. It might be a temporary sigh. If i were the prosecutors in this case, assuming these cases still go forward, i would be asking for subpoenas with people with names in that book. Helping us understand the role he played in finance. We know the secrecy he occupied the secrecy he operated as a businessman. How was he regarded by some of the people in that book . What did people know about him . Lets be clear about something here. The idea that was he a tech wizard or provided financial advi advice, that has become a total cover story. We may never know what happened here because with Jeffrey Epsteins death. But he is not providing Financial Advice to leon black, glen dubin, leslie wexler. These are cover stories, in my humble opinion, based on reporting ive been doing in the last month. He had no aptitude for that. He was a con man. He provided, quote unquote services. I see you nodding at something that bill said a moment ago. There may be a sigh of relief for some of these individuals. How deep a sigh of relief should that be . When you have the Southern District say, there was a conspiracy charge and were still very much taking that seriously. The investigation continues. Yeah. You sigh temporarily in the short term. But you dont know where this is going to go. And certainly, when you think that you have a case that clearly, probably has a lot of Financial Transactions that you can go and look and follow the money in terms of what exactly was going on here . Youre not going to give the top gurus on wall street Financial Advice. We assume he was doing something legal because he had powerful friends. And i think the dark underbelly is probably closer to the truth. But lets see that borne out through this investigation into the potential conspiracy. The same thing about how he got to teach at dalton. Bill barr hired him with no experience. Another weird fact. Clint, let me turn to you. Mentioned the investigations. The investigation to the circumstances surrounding his death. How surprised were you, in a facility that we know to be so secure, that we know is a place that so many hardened criminals have been through. Am i surprised that epstein turned up dead . No. I think this speaks to the state of our country right now. The idea we had, we are the United States. We set the example for the world. Our institutions are strong. They can weather anything, whether its oligarchs or authoritarians. This is another blow that you say, how did this happen . This is the most prolific case in the country at the moment. This person is known throughout. He had turned up once, marks on his neck, in the fetal position, and turns up dead. Who stands to gain from what happened yesterday . And it doesnt point to justice. It doesnt point to the American People. How much confidence do you have in the investigations . Bill barr coming out quickly saying he talked to the Inspector General and department of justice. The odd familial connection to his father. How much confidence should we have in the internal investigation . I have confidence in the investigation. We went through the mueller report. We have a very, very different version on the summary letter when it first came out. We dont know whats on the redacted stuff, right . Look at this case. It will be similar. The fbi will do a great investigation. What do we ultimately know . Sadly, so little of it matters. The investigation, journalism. Our speculations about it. The president of the United States is the leading conspiracy theorist in the world. This was my concern when he started running. I said to his reporters, what about the conspiracies . From the birther issue. The president of the United States already theorist. All of the Trump Supporters will think clinton did it. And the rest of the country will say this is department of justice. This is the federal government. And say that trump gave them the rope. We dont get to a conclusion because how conspiracy theories have become mainstream. And we have to be careful in the media and our own lives with following the data and not following so many of the theories, the hoaxes. I want to listen to lisa bloom where she sees this going here. The estate is the money and assets and property that Jeffrey Epstein left behind. And im calling for the administrator of his estate to freeze all of his assets a ennot disburse them, not dissipate them and instead, create a fund for his victims that can file civil cases. Bill cohen, im going to turn to you on this point. Bearing in mind what you said was in play of this guys career, if you can call it there. What do we know of the estate . Lisa bloom calling for the as t assets to be frozen. How much opaqueness, ambiguity, surrounding the estate of Jeffrey Epstein . I think theres a lot of ambiguity. Theres certain assets that we can see and touch and feel. The apartment in paris, the ranch in new mexico, the islands in the caribbean. The jets not sure how great quality they are. Nevertheless, private jets. Financial assets, i dont know whats there, frankly. But the hard assets, the real estate assets i completely agree with lisa bloom. He has no heirs. Never married, no children. Anyway, hes willing to talk about or come forward. Theres plenty of money there or there will be for his victims. And lisa bloom is absolutely right. Lets get to it. Zerlina, how do we look at the recent disappointment . That series the miami herald published. This has been resurfaced, dug out, and new accusers come out and speak on the record. The plane lands at teterboro. Jeffrey epstein is arrested and placed into custody. Another layer of catharsis. Now, we have this. Looming disappointment is front and center. How do we, not victims of that, process that . Justice was not carried out as it was supposed to be carried out. It ends with this note of finality. In cases of sexual assault, justice is rarely found. As a result, the fbi reports that 97 of rapists dont ever go to jail. Thats a statistic we should keep in our minds when we look at this particular case, which is on the farther end of the spectrum in terms of severity because you have child rape. Serial child rape and facilitating that through sex trafficking. This is a unique case. For the rest of us, i think we need to keep our focus on making sure the victims are eventually getting justice and going through that survival process. Making sure were not saying victim blaming things on television. Were ensuring the focus stays on this case, even after Jeffrey Epstein is long gone and deceased. Its important for these victims to get money. Often, we dont talk about that enough, in case of sexual assau assault. We focus on the criminal system. We focus on the fact that victims deserve some form reparations is not the right word. But support to pay for the therapy and all of the lost production and wages that you lose when youre going through ptsd and the aftermath of an assault. I want to end with the twitter feed. I saw the retweet coming out. When it comes to the president , the retweet is an endorsement. You have to treat it as such. Theres a video of the comedian casting apersiurses. Not a comedian. Casting them. He tweeted something from an auspicious news site. Your reaction to that, that you have a president of the United States, not just wading into the waters, hes throwing the water around, as he can. No surprise. This has been his mode for as long as this candidacy started and before that. What is important, is when real people, who have a large following, insert themselves into that ecosystem. They can amplify any information out there. During the election, 2015, 2016, Julian Assange was one such person. Why is this moving so quickly . A real person grabbed it, pushed it out and amplified it. The president is the largest amplifier of information in the world. It doesnt just stay in social media. It moves into mainstream media. Now, people have to respond to it. They respond to it and point people to it, even if they werent aware of it. You rebuit it, theres an argument of, whose side is it . It muddies the waters that the truth cant be known. Its a russian disinformation system weve seen overseas thats come to us. Its not the russians. But they will jump on and amplify it. He should be removed from office just for that tweet. Blaming this on bill clinton and every republican who supports him should have to answer for that tweet. This isnt normal. He blamed the last president , bill clinton. And donald trump had a better, if not, similar relationship as bill clinton. Thats why hes doing this, to deflect and republicans should have to answer for that tweet. I think its dangerous. You have people commit acts of violence. Cesar was just sentenced for sending bombs to the clintons house. This is not a game. William, appreciate the time on this sunday morning. Another republican coming out in favor of red flag laws as bipartisan momentum is growing in washington. For red flags to work, someone has to raise them. Whats the solution . Well talk to one key governor about how to move ahead. D. Earn unlimited 1. 5 miles on every purchase, plus well match your miles at the end of your first year. Youll match my miles . Yeah mile for mile and no blackout dates or annual fee. Nice i was thinking about taking a scuba diving trip i love that. Or maybe go surfing. Or not. Ok. Maybe somewhere else. Maybe a petting zoo. Cant go wrong. Cant get eaten. Earn miles. Well match em at the end of your first year. Plus no annual fee or blackouts. The discover it® miles card. So, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. 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Lets send to everyone [ camera clicking ] wifi up there . Ahhh. Sure, why not . Howd he get out . a camera might figure it out. That was easy glad i could help. At xfinity, were here to make life simple. Easy. Awesome. So come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today. This is up. Im david gura. In the wake of three Mass Shootings over the last two weeks, President Trump is calling for more red flag laws to help prevent future incidents of violence. 17 states now have red flag laws that enable people to petition a judge to remove a gun that may pose a threat to themselves or others. Some of them is threats or acts of violence towards self or another. A violation of emergency protective orders or use of a firearm illegally. The red flag laws are gaining momentum in several other states, considering this legislation. In wisconsin, the states Republican House speaker took to twitter to say he will not entertain proposals to take away Second Amendment wrirights. Im talking to the governor of that state. He is going to meet with the leadership of his state. You have this meeting set up. Tell us how you plan to make the case to these two other leaders in your state. Certainly. Good morning, david. Thank you for allowing me to be here. I will be pressing the issue, protective orders, red flag, whatever term you use is important. We had a mass shooting in our state several years ago. Just had the anniversary of it. You know came in. Weve listened to the parkland students, their message about do something. Im in favor of the universal background checks and the protective orders. I think its an important step forward. Its my goal to convince the Republican Leadership this was a good thing to do. For goodness sakes, the state of ohio has a republican governor and legislature. Here in wisconsin, democratic governor, republican legislature, we should be able to do this. Forgive me for being cynical. You bring up the shooting at the temple in oak creek, happened in 2012. One would think that would be a catalytic event. That would have led to change in policy in wisconsin. Why hasnt that happened to where you would be satisfied with . Something should have been done back then. 80 polled. And the vast majority of gun owners of wisconsin support both of these issues. Going forward, we have to do something. And i am hopeful that the Republican Leaders will see the light, certainly. They may be waiting for permission from the nra. Im not sure. Well have a good conversation and see where it happens. We have to do something. The people of wisconsin expect and the time is now. You put up that poll. 81 of wisconsin support background checks and you mention when it comes to the red flag laws, the numbers are similar. Lets talk about what washington can do to make this more palatable in your state. Theres tying insent is and tying grants on the state level. Have you heard or do you think that would move the needle in your state . If there were to be federal encouragement for a law to be put in place in those states. Incentives isnt going to do anything. People have to own it in their heart, i believe. And people of wisconsin have spoken. I think having republicans at the national level, moving forward in this, is a good step forward. That may influence local republicans. At the end of the day if we have to have an incentive to put common sense pieces in place, thats the right i think thats the wrong issue. I think we should be doing it because its the right thing to do. We were talking about this, making progress on gun policy and all of the obstacles to keep that in place. Your reaction to this kind of law. Making inroads. Being passed with legislatures around the country. I applaud the governor for what he is trying to do in wisconsin. I think these red flag laws im glad to see theres movement on this. Republicans are starting to support these. They are enforced too late. Youre raising the flag after somebodys gotten the gun. Its important were not talking about suicide. Red flag laws have been shown to prevent suicide. Thats important if were talking about suicide. Mostly, were talking about Mass Shootings of innocent civilians in this case. We dont have the data to prevent these things. We need background checks to prevent people getting guns in the first place. The group thats being targeted, too off, minorities. This is women. This is an issue its often we dont talk about this, hatred toward women. And thats not a mental illness. Thats cultural conditioning. Thats something wrong with us. We need to have a discussion about how women are targeted because its in Domestic Abuse, as well. I hope the governor looks at that and know the red flag laws wont do nearly enough to prevent that. The other piece is the vast majority of shootings in the United States, are instances of domestic violence. A man will kill his entirely family and then himself. Thats the majority. I believe its 86 of Mass Shootings are those types of shootings. Always a man. Exactly. Additionally, Mass Shootings outside of the home, he kills the family or Family Member and kills everyone at the office or a Movie Theater or elsewhere. Its important to understand why background checks in terms of men who have records of domestic violence, are flagged to not get the firearm. The red flag law is a little late, right . Thats after the person has the law, even with that history of domestic violence. Governor, the last question to you here, and the political pressure youre under. You look at the two pieces of legislation, the red flag law and extended background checks. Are you satisfied with those options . Is there more that you want to do . We had a conversation about optimism when it comes to the senate doing anything. Help us understand the political pressure youre under and how that might keep you from doing more than these two things. Theres a sense in the state of wisconsin, we need to accomplish something. Lets get things done for the people of wisconsin. Thats where were at right now. At the end of the day, we will have changing in the background checks and the red flags we have something about Domestic Abuse already. We have that Building Block in place. For other things, such as, you know, restricting some purchases on automatic weapons, thats down the road. The people of wisconsin want us to do something. I know, this is what we can do. And its my plan to make sure that i can convince my colleagues that we can get that done. Governor tony evers. After the break, the department of Homeland Security defends the i. C. E. Raids. What the administration is saying on the sunday shows today. N is saying on the sunday shows today. Nice. But, uh. Whats up with your. Partner . Not again. Limu thats your reflection. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty if you have postmenopausal osteoporosis and a high risk for fracture now might not be the best time to ask yourself are my bones strong . Life is full of make or break moments. Thats why its so important to help reduce your risk of fracture with prolia®. Only prolia® is proven to help strengthen and protect bones from fracture with 1 shot every 6 months. Do not take prolia® if you have low blood calcium, are pregnant, are allergic to it or take xgeva® serious allergic reactions, like low Blood Pressure trouble breathing; throat tightness; face, lip, or tongue swelling rash; itching; or hives have happened. Tell your doctor about dental problems as severe jaw bone problems may happen or new or unusual pain in your hip groin, or thigh, as unusual thigh bone fractures have occurred. 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Dont ask someone else about racism. Do not accept bad answers. Follow up on your questions and other reporters questions. And be honest. Report inconvenient truths. Talk about this presidency, this moment, these shootings, as well. Lets tick through the rules, if we could. I was reading to what you wrote in complement to what Margaret Sullivan wrote. Just in the 1960s, covering civil rights or the climate crisis, theres a right and wrong side of controlling rampant gun violence. Journalists need to be on the right side of that and not afraid to own it. Journalism is broken. The times is broken. We dont need stenographers for racists and liars. Thats what we are. We have to back up and say, what does the country need . I redefine journalism. You will have to bleep out the f word. My definition of journalism is to convene communities in respectful conversation. We have to look at what is stopping us from doing that. We need investigators and educators. The story of our times is racism. Its been the story for a century. But were realizing it today. And the best journalism ive seen last week on that story, was on this network, on Nicolle Wallaces show on tuesday. If you havent watched it, watch it. He educates. And the New York Times has a ridiculous headline about trump versus unity versus racism. How does that inform . How does that tell anything about what the country is today. We need edge vaters, investigators and group therapists. I know these guys want to get in on this. I want to ask you one followup. Jack schaffer talks about the headlines and how we seek out information. What we expect from the information outlets. And he had a contrarian view. The theory uncaged by the times headline had more to do with the political validations that liberals and lefties have come to demand from the news media they consume. What do you have to say about that . Value laidating that we are y a racist in this country, call it what it is. Its racist. Its not fabricating. Its lies. If were not honest and truthful with the public we serve, how can we get anywhere . We have a third of this country in mass delusion. We have to call on other disciplines to understand how to do this. To understand delusion, we have to go to neuroscience and psychology. This is a bigger problem than what weve done in the past xhshgs is just repeating words and being a stenographer. I want you guys to talk to each other. You were so good at pinpointing, what is false . What is the Conspiracy Theory. What questions do you have for him about how we better cite that . I have questions for clint. Go for it. One thing that i find interesting is that, journalists have taken it upon themselves, especially after 2016, to be better factcheckers. That was their immediate response. Better in delivering truth. Thats not actually how this falls apart. Social media, the source of the information is the person who shares the information with you. The thing to believe, from war propaganda, that what you hear first, that what you hear the most, that is coming from a trusted source, and that doesnt have a rebuttal. Thats your social media feed. Youre going to solidify what you believe based on that. Journalists, i think theyve improved already. Theyre trying to work through it. But society has not improved on this. Theyve doubled down. They reenforced a lot of the mechani mechanisms. And they say, this is what i want to believe. People are choosing the sources they want, reaffirm the belief. And they are getting it from people that look and talk like them. The russians you covered know how to manipulate this. And trump knows how to manipulate this. The challenge here, youre not pivoting in real time. Youre trying to process and change in realtime. To make the accommodation that clint is talking about here, were learning. We have to figure it out. Time passes as all of that is happening. Renee had a great tweet this morning. When one of the bad things come out, the Conspiracy Theory tweet that you know who retweeted, if we report that, we amplify the bad message. If we ignore it, the conspiracy theorists say, you are after us. Were in a nowin position. We need new strategies. I wanted to pick up where you jeff, you said, earlier, something about we need to focus on racism, which is the history of this country. Dont you think i know you think this. The problem is, we need more journalists who understand what bigotry and racism is. I like to think i do my best, and you do. But im happy when zerlinas at the table always. It isnt just having women or people of color at the table. But the upper echelons of management, within journalism to recognize, and name racism and sexism, and i throw to zerlina to get that take on that. Is that wrong . Youre right. Part of the problem is, yes, theres a lack of verdiversity the higher levels of journalism. The people that are setting the agenda for what to cover and how to cover it. Defining it. What is racism and what is sexism. Yeah. You have people that dont have the lived experience to inform how theyre going to decide to cover something. And often, to jeffs point, calling something racist, that can be an objective truth. That can be something that is just true. And its not saying that doesnt mean then youre not an objective journalist. That fact has been lost on journalists in the trump era. Calling someone is a racist, is an attack on a person, when youre defining the behavior. We have a normalcy bias. Since he came down the escalator and said mexicans are rapists and murderers and was the top candidate on the republican said, we didnt know what to do about that. We acted like this is normal, no matter what he did because he was eventually the nominee and now the president. We cant act like this is all falling apart and our institutions are crumbling. We have to pretend because its a delusion because its terrifying to think about what the alternative scenario could be. Jeff jarvis, thank you for coming in. The 2020 candidates battle for traction in the hawk eye state. Up next, we find that defeating trump is not the only thing uniting that field. Field we trust usaa more than any other company out there. They give us excellent customer service, every time. Our 18 year old was in an accident. Usaa took care of her car rental, and getting her car towed. All i had to take care of was making sure that my daughter was ok. If i met another veteran, and they were with another Insurance Company, i would tell them, you need to join usaa because they have better rates, and better service. Were the gomez family. Were the rivera family. Were the kirby family, and we are usaa members for life. Get your Auto Insurance quote today. Dprevagen is the number onemild memopharmacistrecommendedng . Memory support brand. 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The delicious taste of glucerna gives you the sweetness you crave while helping you manage your blood sugar. Glucerna. Everyday progress groans hmph. food grunting menacingly when the food you love doesnt love you back, stay smooth and fight heartburn fast with tums smoothies. Tum tumtum tum tums this weekend, most of the Democratic Candidates for president were in iowa to call for changes to gun policy after a forum convened after the shootings in el paso and dayton. Mike bloomberg, the billionaire businessman who backs the gun policy group said this to senator Elizabeth Warren. And i just said to senator warren, on the way out, senator, congratulations. It was a nice talk. Just to remind you, if my company hadnt been successful, we wouldnt be here today. So, enough with this stuff. I should say, the New York Times reporting that the two hugged. Two people have confirmed they hugged backstage. Going to Vaughn Hilliard at the state fair, as we can see. Walk us through. What happened at the event yesterday . They were unified, something about the gun policy. What were the gradations that emerged after how they approached this issue . They said, one line from Michael Bloomberg was out of step with the entirety of the rest of the forum. You had 16 candidates that were specifically addressing gun violence reform efforts. Michael bloomberg was asked by our stephanie ruhle, if he would back the likes of Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. This is part of that exchange. If a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, who are top contenders, get the nomination, would you support them . I would have to see what happens down the road. Out of all of the 20 candidates, i think everyone would be a better president than donald trump. You know, the conversation yesterday was gun violence reform. But Michael Bloomberg, who is, obviously, the former mayor of new york city, senator warren has taken on on the stump, arguing, you know, that wall street is conning america. As for that actual forum there, what you saw was the Democratic Candidates all unified in message. After that democratic debate a few weeks ago, there was a conversation about, is this democratic field too divided. Is there too much friction between these candidates and not enough focus on donald trump. This issue, in the week after the shootings have very much unified this democratic party. I caught up with Chuck Grassley, here over at the state fair, the senator from iowa. I asked about whether he would back universal background checks. Really, thats the focus of kamla harris, cory booker, senator warren, saying its incumbent on the republican colleagues to step forward. Two republican senators have backed the mansiontoomey legislation that would extend background checks to gun shows. I asked Chuck Grassley if he would support such legislation. He paused for six seconds before he said, it depends on what universal means. We should expect the democrats to continue to press that issue in the next few weeks before Congress Returns to capitol hill. It was one of the more pregnant pauses. Vaughn hillyiard. Theres been talk about a climate debate . Gun policy in recent weeks has come to the fore. Its something the candidates are talking about and unifying behind. Your reaction that this is something and novel . Its new but related in part to what happened in parkland. What people are missing, when a mass shooting is in the news and it dissipates, youre forgetting those folks connected with others and they made an intersectional youth movement. Coupled with moms demand action and every town. Thats moms demand is a part of every town. Youre building a movement that can put pressure on elected officials on the local and state level. Now, its in the national consciousness. You have the foundation of a Political Movement that can make change in policy on capitol hill. We forget on the democratic side, the beast is a multigenerational intersectional movement that is trying to change gun laws in this country. You look at history, most successful movements look like this current movement. Maybe im misinterpreting this. But Michael Bloomberg has been great on climate and guns. He donated millions and million to support change on that. Why he hesitated to endorse b n Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. Because Mike Bloomberg does not believe that the deregulation is not the cause of the great recession. Hes on record of denying that. And the abundance of the evidence this has been written about for years, is of course, the financial deregulation of our economy is the primary reason as to why im under water on my mortgage in the suburbs of new york. Its important. The way he hedged Elizabeth Warren is amazing on these issues. She understands fundamentally and better than any other american. And thats why some of us want her to be the nominee because americans are getting screwed. If youre going to vote for donald trump, just say so. We can decide where you stand on the line of whether racism is bad. But dont hedge. Not at this moment. Not after two Mass Shootings. I find that offensive, actually. And its not anything personal to mayor bloomberg. I do he didnt say anybody, but. He was a great mayor. Theres too many conservatives and moderates doing this game. I dont support the racism, but im here for the tax cuts. I dont support the racism, but supporting Elizabeth Warren, thats too soon. Im a black person. And racism is offensive enough, that im saying i am not voting for donald trump because he doesnt think im equal to a white man. That is not okay. If youre hedging, do you agree that im not equal to a white man . Is that what youre saying . Is that not a deal breaker for you . It should be. Thats what we saw ahead of the fundraiser. The Administration Responds and defends unprecedented i. C. E. Raids. Much more on our wrapup, next. Fact is, every Insurance Company hopes you drive safely. But allstate helps you. With drivewise. Feedback that helps you drive safer. And that can lower your cost now that you know the truth. Are you in good hands . A cockroach can survive heresubmerged ttle guy. Underwater for 30 minutes. Wow. Yeah. Not getting in today. Terminix. Defenders of home. Glad youve stayed with us. Cant say the same for my producers who have been watching other networks this hour. Mark morgan defended the massive immigration raids in mississippi this week. Take a listen to what he had to say. The majority of time in these cases the individuals that are here illegally they also steal identities of u. S. Citizens, they get fraudulent documents, Social Security cards and et cetera. And so its not just, first of all they are here illegally and theres additional fraud that goes with this. I understand the girl is upset and i get that, but her father committed a crime. And just so the American People know also, that girl, her mother was home and she was reunited with her mother within a few hours that night. I understand what the girl had to say, telling her her father committed a crime and justifying the fact many of these children were left without places to go. Clint, let me turn to you and how you react to that. This was six massive raids, which we have not seen the likes of before, and i want to get your reaction to that and also what you make of this white house reaction to this. You heard the white house saying this week they have no control over these i. C. E. Raids. Lets take it up a few levels, right . Its where do the i. C. E. Raids happen at. Mississippi. Happens in the south. Where is trump territory . To me this is more of an information demonstration campaign than anything. Look, what did they immediately do . They sent people back home . Why, because they actually didnt have a plan. Many of them were americans. Many of them were americans. This is nothing more than Intimidation Campaign both to send a message the u. S. To trumps base and immigrants theyre unwelcome here. If they were, they would have the facilities setup to deal with this, a process to deal with these things, a court system to deal with that. He wouldnt have to come on and make some convoluted argument how they were trying to handle this and because of these following reasons. And he gets thrown out there, right . And that tells you the backbone and the system has been broken. And since theres nowhere to pivot on this, this is nothing more than a campaign. What is lifelike for the i. C. E. Agent working in a broken agency as part of a broken part of this government that has an acting head underneath another acting head . Do you see something of this magnitude being carried out by people not in those positions permanently, not in those positions confirm bide the u. S. Senate . Across the government do you know whos in charge of the u. S. Agency snz. I dont. I to seek out the information like whos in charge of this department this week . Remember steve bannon in 2016, when this was ramping up, he shows up and what is the singular message . Not hiring, constant turmoil at the leadership levels, getting people of competence to either exit government or having them fired, this is what happens, right . You can do a public demonstration but you actually cant implement much of anything. The department of defense the department of Homeland Security in particular, many swaths of there is no one really in charge and the rotation is so heavy you really cant execute it. Clint watts, thank you very much for joining me on set. Thanks to all the guests who joined me this hour. 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It is consider today be a very secure place. Good morning, and welcome to am joy. My colleague Stephanie Gosk explained why the death of Jeffrey Epstein was so shocking. Officials say he apparently died by suicide saturday after being found unresponsive in his cell. The fbi is investigating and the country and more importantly epsteins victims are left with a lot of questions. How does an inmate whos that high profile die while in the custody of in the