The governments proposed order specifies that such statements would include, a, statements regarding the identity, testimony, or credibility of prospect of witnesses. We, statements about any party, witness, attorney, Court Personnel or potential jurors that are disparaging and inflammatory or intimidating, and quote. Its no secret that long before donald trump entered politics and long before the invention of, twitter he has abused various forms of media to attack celebrities. Politicians, others with whom he disagrees or thinks of scoring ten. The practice persisted through his presidency. He use social media and other platforms to Ridicule Members of his own cabinet among many others. The behavior has continued over the past few months. The criminal indictments piled up across four different jurisdictions around the country. Hes made numerous disparaging comments about the prosecutors who brought the cases against him. The judges who are randomly assigned to those cases as well as people who anticipated could be potential witnesses. About a month ago, just a few days after he was criminally indicted for a fourth, time trump posted a vague but alarming threat in all caps on his social media platform truth social. It read, quote, if you go after me, i am coming after you. The post was previously cited in an earlier motion filed by the special counsels office raising their concerns with the judge that the former president might use evidence released to his legal team to improperly target witnesses. His latest motion, smith calls attention to trumps past comments. Writing the former president has an established practice of issuing inflammatory statements targeted at individual institutions that presents an obstacle or challenge to him, and quote. Meanwhile, down in georgia, we learned this week there will be at least two trials in the criminal racketeering case against donald trump and his 18 codefendants. On thursday, judge scott mcafee granted the defendants motion to sever their case from Kenneth Chesebro and sidney powell. The Trump Attorneys who were involved in the scheme to use fake electors to help overturn the results of the 2020 election. They have previously filed for a speedy trial. It could begin before the end of this year. Judge mcafee has directed the jury clerk to begin sending out subpoenas to 900 prospective jurors in Fulton County. Upon to be given jury selection on October 23rd For Cheeseborough and powells trial. Joining me now, fred, Smith A Professor Of Law at Emory University in atlanta. Good to see you and good morning. Thank you for being with us. Lets talk about. This the motion, until this week, we had been talking about it in terms of people who think that they either want their trials moved to Federal Court or they want their trials done separately for whatever legal reason. In this particular, case the judge actually referred to the logistics of it. There is no courtroom big enough in their courthouse for 19 defendants. Im curious about that. What you make of it. Sure. In this particular instance you, have defendants who sought a speedy trial. It is what trump did, has you know. To the october 23rd it. They also noted theres no courtroom large enough to hold all of them and their attorneys. As a result, he thought that about 19, its hard to see how he might not feel the same way about trying 17. One thing the judge also noted, however, there are other judges in the Fulton County courthouse who stand ready to try some of these defendants. It raises the possibility that you can have multiple trials going on simultaneously based on this indictment. Which is by the way happened in the january six. Case they were not charged in most cases. There were instances with the proud boys and the oath keepers where it was one set of charges. Generally speaking, the hundreds of people charged in january six were tried and charged and tried separately. What does this mean to fani willis . Clearly, she seems to have intended for this to be one trial with 19 witnesses. Each time someone has tried to either have a case removed a Federal Court or to be cleaved up from the others, she has resisted that. With specific requests that this go forward as one drab. How does it affect her ability to try these cases that they are now starting to be cleared off. I think her office has to be thinking about where theyre going to try the particular defendants in which one they are going to request going forward. In this particular indictments, although theres an overarching scheme to overturn the election, when you look closely there are certain districts acts. There is false testimony. There is instances of intimidating election workers. There is the Coffee CountyElection Tampering Example there is the fake elector scheme. You can imagine a set of circumstances in which you break the instances out and try individuals based on those circumstances. As you are saying this, i got my copy of the indictment here and there are definitely places where you can see these things being discreet chunks. However, under georgia law, under the r. I. C. O. And conspiracy charges there have been charged theres things in here that dont stand independently as criminal acts if you werent thinking about the underlying conspiracy. And other, words a lot of this case has to be brought together in order to make the conspiracy. The r. I. C. O. Part, make it work. Thats definitely going to be a challenge. If you look at the first part of the indictment, its by far the largest count. Theres a number of avert acts that are alleged. This is going to be the first test. This october 23rd trial. Already these two defendants alone, one is charged with fake elector scheme. The other is charged with the tampering of Voter Machines on Coffee County. The prosecutors will connect this to these broader scheme. They need to figure out how much evidence they are going to bring in outside of the discreet acts in order to make the case. I will give my viewers an example. Act one of counted one is about donald trump making a speech on november 4th. The last line of that count, the last line of the ax is that this speech was an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy. Shes making the point that you may read this thing and say i dont understand how the speech by donald trump has anything to do with sydney powell or whatever the case is. And thats the type of connection which is why it is important to read these indictments. Good to see you again as always. Thank you for joining us. Fred smith, a professor of law at Emory University atlanta. With me now is jill winebanks. She brings the assistant Watergate Special prosecutor and for the United States army. Shes an msnbc contributor. Shes a cohost of the important sisters in law podcast. If you dont subscribe to that you should be subscribed and listening to two years of back podcasts. She is the author of the great book, the watergate girl. My fight for Truth And Justice against a criminal president. She is someone who has helped me through the last several years of legal shenanigans. It is so rare that you and i actually get time together. I am so happy to have you here. I am delighted to be here. You are picked todays lady justice. You had the scales of justice. Its the right thing for what we are talking about. I want to go from georgia back to what we jackson offense. Ed he has asked for a narrow gag order. I think both georgia and in china chutkans case, the judge magistrate who heard the jack smith case in the beginning, they both warned donald trump about things that he can say and public. He didnt seem to be heeding any of it. He didnt. Absolutely didnt. I think the request is probably too narrow. I think it has to include barring him or his lawyers from putting Forth Defenses that will never be admitted in court. He will for example, he has already said i guarantee you i will testify that i did not try to suppress any of the video. I did not do that. That is not only its putting forward public opinion. A defense that hes not going to be able to raise because hes not going to testify. I think that has to be blocked by the order that was in place. And then someone has to enforce the order. As long as its not, enforced hes going to keep on doing what he does. And a normal case, one would understand how that would all go down. And other, words you would understand how that order would come down and how it would be enforced. There is nothing normal about this case. Anything anyone does get them accused of being overzealous or politicized. Does a judge look at a request by jack smith in this case differently than they might have another cases that youve been involved in . Yes, i think they dipped that he wont abide by it. His lawyers may abide by it. That would be helpful. You dont want to have an unenforceable order. It weakens the court system. Why put in place something when you know youre not going to jail him . I think eventually they might have. To what other options are there . Theres financial penalties that have not worked. He read a famed e. Jean carroll late after a 5 Million Dollar judge. Hes getting called back to court for that. He might get another judgment as a result. The concept of doing what accord would do which could be arrest for breaching an order, is that practical things that would happen donald trump . How does that go down . Legally, its possible. Politically, would it create chaos, would it create a really dangerous situation . Maybe. On the other, hand i think theres a lot of people in the country who are, saying we need to have the Justice System work. We need to have the judicial system work. We need to have accountability of all criminals. So, i dont know how you can avoid taking further steps. You might start with a huge financial penalty. You might start with limitations on what you can prove in the courtroom. Before you would start putting someone in jail and you have to be careful because hes running for president and he has to be able to say whatever he wants about policies. We might not be able to say he cant say im innocent. That is harmless. That is what you do when you plead the that youre not guilty. Its an intimidation issue. What jack smith seems to be referring to is potential witnesses. They got discoveries. Millions of pages. So, the Trump Team Knows whats coming generally speaking. They know everybody generally whos going to be called to testify. I think thats what jack smith is getting. At you cant do things to intimidate the prosecutors and jurors or anyone else involved in the case. Thats the main target. He also orders and motions asked for a preapproval by the judge of any polling of the jury and focus groups that they have. Jury selection has become more of a science. Its not uncommon to try to have focus groups not trials that would make sense. In this case, you might pollute the total jury pool if you do it in a way that starts putting out defenses that will never be allowed in court. She wants to make sure that there is a making sure that there is preapproval of any questions that go out to a potential juror. Tanya chutkan has asked to recuse herself in this case. She has asked for input from both sides on this one. They are using her own words by saying she is commented in the sentencing of january six who have complained that they did this at the behest of donald trump. Donald trump is not in the room. He is not standing trial. Tell me about this. I think the ultimate thing will not prevail. She will not recuse and the Appellate Court will say that was a fatal error. They will have to reduce the judgment because she didnt. I think the two quotes that they have used have been taken out of context. When you read beyond the few lines that they quote, it says you defendants have said its not her opinion. She has gone on to say this is not me to judge that. That is not what is before. Me i am judging you and your conduct. I think shes been very careful and i dont think that theres anything that will lead to reversible error if she does not hurt recuse herself. Jill winebanks, you are a National Treasure who has been upholding democracy in this country for decades. I will never get over the thrill of having you with me in the studio. Thank you for everything you do for us. Thank you for all the early mornings you get. Up here in a different times and most the time to join in the morning. Thank you. Jill winebanks is the former assistant Watergate Special prosecutor at msnbc contributor and the cohost of the sisters and lafayette podcast. Soon youll be able to have your own print copy of the trump indictments. The 91 Truck Criminal Counts against the former president of the United States includes the complete and edited and on and bridged indictments against donald trump. I added in the addition. I wear a forward that sets the scene and thats important context. Youre going to want this with u. S. Trials go on over the next year. Its out on the 25th of september. Its available for preorder a. Now coming up, first they started with abortion. Bands now in some red states antiabortion republicans are trying to stop women from traveling to another state for a safe legal abortion. Im going to speak to a woman who was forced to cross state lines for a medically necessary abortions. She is now the Lead Plaintiff in an important new lawsuit at the forefront of the new fight for womens health. Plus, flaws an, all the u. S. Constitution has been a standard bearer for the world. As of now the document has been backsliding. It might be the result of a broken system. Broken system. New dove men bodywash gives you 24 hours of nourishing micromoisture. That means your skin still feels healthy and smooth now. Now. And now too. Get healthier, smoother feeling skin all day. 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Take the first step to see if your Small Business qualifies. For the First Time Since roe was overturned, to Planned Parenthood clinics and wisconsin will resume Offering Abortions on monday after a judge ruled that a state law passed in 1849 that does not criminalize abortions. This is an important development. Not only for the people of wisconsin, but for the entire region of the country where republican lawmakers are actively continuing to choke off access to abortion care. As experts predicted and warned, Abortion Bans neither dissuade women from needing nor from seeking abortions. Instead, the band just creates new barriers and hardships forcing people to travel across state lines. Sometimes hundreds of miles from home. In order to get the procedure done. And allen, oie abortion remains legal, Planned Parenthoods clinics have seen a seven fold increase in patients coming from wisconsin since the Supreme Court issued the dobbs decision. Its not just wisconsin residents whove been traveling to illinois. For millions of women across the south and midwest, illinois the closest place to receive safe and legal abortions after six weeks. Clinics across the state are seeing a huge increase of total patients. According to Data Collected by the guttmacher institute, clinics and allen i perform 69 more abortions during the First Six Months of the