Over to british authorities, hes been imprisoned in harsh conditions ever since, as the us has tried to have him extradited. This is not a partisan issue in the United StatesRepublican Donald Trump charge julian with the espionage and the irony. Since trump is now charged with multiple kinds of espionage himself. But democrat, joe biden, who continued to prosecute action and has actively sought julians extradition. The bottom line is this, it is the c i a thats calling the shots in this case, the c, i a considers itself to be the victim here. And they wont stop until we get weeks is ruined. And julian assigned is either in prison for the rest of his life or dead that we have to yes, today, both of whom are close to julia, sancha, and both of whom are intimately knowledgeable of the challenges. Any faces joe loria is the editor in chief of consortium news. Hes a veteran Foreign Affairs journalist and is written for the wall street journal. The boston globe. The london Daily Telegraph and other outlets. Randy critical is a long time comedian and social justice activist. The former director of the william and counsellor fund for social justice and the host of the radio shall live on the fly, which airs on new yorks w. B. A. I radio gentlemen. Thanks so much for being with us. Joe. Id like to begin with you. Youve attended pretty much every Court Hearing the julians been involved in from the very beginning. Things seem to have finally come to ahead. In his most recent appeal, julians attorneys argued that the Us Justice Department had not provided assurances that julian would not be executed if extradited to the United States. Was that a paper work exercise or is that a real fear . Inexplicable, why . After 4 years now, this routine matter where britain, one of them is being asked expedite summer to a state that has the Death Penalty routinely asked for an assurance from that state that in this particular case, it would not be sought. And your Home Office Never asked for that. We know that because and i was sitting in the court room right there, right in the row between the judge and behind me with the lawyers dot the been watching it was the kings counselor for the home office. He said that they never asked us for this assurance. I find that extraordinary, of us never offered an assurance. Again, this is routine. Why was that not happen . This is something that no one could really fully understand. Theres some speculation that its a way the for the us to get out of this situation. That is, but come politically untenable for them. Given the incredible pressure thats been put on the by heads of state. But every human rights organization, press freedom organization, etc. And of course, joe biden doesnt want julian assigned to coming, showing up on the us shores with the in chains of journalist in chains to stand trial just outside washington for publish and to information about us. They crunch, but that means it could be kicked down the road past the november election. This seems to be something else. And whats really important here about this, john, is that the high court, the 2 High Court Judges that are heard julians, the hearing on february 20 and 21. What were talking about here, this is by the way, just to hearing so that drilling assange could have an appeal. This is an appeal about an appeal, because he had been denied the right to have an appeal or to leave for an appeal. So those judges said in their 66 page ruling, 2 very important things on the Death Penalty. There were strongly blunt. Im going to quote, they said, if extradition of a shot would quote be contrary to the Convention Rights us European Convention. You human rights, under the british human rights act of 1998 article 3, which is against georgia in human degrading treatment to punch. In other words, the Death Penalty and other words, if the extradition is contrary to that right, the extradition must be refused. That means without the assurance from the United States that they will not seek the Death Penalty. Theres an automatic refusal of distribution freelance on goes free. Why havent they given that assurance yet . Now greg murray, who was on our webcast to consorting news a few days ago, said he believed that at the last minute the us wouldnt give this assurance on the Death Penalty we will remain to be seen. If they do, then theres a 2 week period where the lawyers, for psalms, can challenge that assurance to see whether it is in fact a valid one or not. And i did a Little Research about this today, and i discovered that the attorney general must, in a Federal Capital punishment case, the prosecutors cannot just ask for, they need to go to a process that includes the attorney general signing off on this to have the Death Penalty i would assume that marriage garland would have to also approve this assurance not to seek the Death Penalty. And then just to ad theres one other right that sancha has to be assured he would have and this is really an important one. And that is in conjunction with the article, 10 of the European Convention human rights, which is what the british courts go by. The equivalent of article temp, freedom of expression is the 1st amendment in the United States. So the court as asked us to assure he would have 1st amendment rights as well. And we note that both my pun payer, i see a director and gordon crump or the chief prosecutor here. Both said that a science would not have 1st amendment rights or that could be taken from him. And there was a Supreme Court decision that said that of non us citizens have no 1st amendment rights. If they, especially if theyre committed the alleged crime outside United States, which is the case here. So you, the fact is though, and we have marjorie coming out on that same webcast saying that the separation of powers in the us means that the executive branch, the department of justice, cannot interfere. What a court would say about whether those rights should be granted or not. So the us cannot grant 1st amendment rights to julie massage, cannot do it because of that Supreme Court decision because its up to the judge whether he would get those rights or not. And the Supreme Court again will in a case that the fire does not have 1st memory. So what does that mean . Well, heres where theres a difference because the high court in their ruling said, and i quote this, that if the song just quote, not permitted to rely on the 1st amendment, then it is arguable. That is extradition would be incompatible with article 10 of the convention. In that case, julie would be free. But unlike the buying club language to blunt the language on the desk, but if they dont give the insurance, he has to be discharged, hes gone free. Know extradition on the a free speech issue. Its, theres some wiggle room in the language of the court saying that he only hasnt arguable case. So that would be argued apparently at the appeals court, but just to finish, i would point out that the cape Crown Prosecution Service on their website says that in all like tradition cases, the judge must consider whether the extradition would be compatible with the request of persons human rights and the judge finds that that tradition would not be compatible with the required persons human rights that persons extradition cannot be ordered and the judge must discharge this. So included in those human rights as article 10. So according to the crowd persecution service, he would have to be released as well on the fact that he didnt get the insurance on 1st amendment or free speech rights, which the Us Department of justice cannot issue. Because its up to the judge and the Supreme Court decided a fine, it doesnt have those. Right. So im thinking thats looking a lot better for joining us on june. At 1st glance at this very complicated, really, right, randy, youre also tied to the various assign support groups. Actually. All, all even go farther than that. You do more than just about anybody i know in the, in the assign support groups as well as julians to julians wife and, and to some of these more prominent supporters. What are you hearings about hearing about plants for extradition . How are those closest to julian preparing for it . And what do they expect to do once he gets to the United States . Well, to be honest with you, not really that direct. Right . Now theyre saying im kind of low around. I believe that you can get him on the street as a mass street isnt the only thing to say, and thats why youve seen me. I would say a 150. 00 days last year. As more caden and trying to organize remington just dont get to court just on his birthday or something. Major anniversary day. I think its something that has to be pursued on a daily basis. Youre the only thing to joe. Weve been hearing many rumors over the past several weeks that Justice Department, prosecutors, and julians attorneys are involved in talks not necessarily in negotiations, but in talks that might result in julian accepting some sort of a plea deal in exchange for time served. He would then be expelled back to us trail. Yeah. Presumably where he could then live in freedom with his wife and children. What are you hearing . Are these serious talks and are they at an advanced stage . Well, i do know that there were definitely talks to, at some point and then truly into so much as you pointed out on sputnik radio last week, john, that you knew that there was a deal and julian turned down. So youd have to agree to the espionage act, which is an extremely courageous thing for him to have for him to have done denying his own freedoms personal freedom to get the hell out of belmont prison. Because he did not want a future drug wants to be charged for it. Espionage. So that deal fell apart. And you look at the language of this statement. The barry pollock julians a lawyer in washington. Said he, it sounds like a lot of people, i think misinterpreted this, that there is no tops. But if you look at it carefully, its very lauraly constructed statement. Look at the language. It says that the Justice Department has shown no intention to resolve this matter. That doesnt mean they havent tried, it means just a way of saying were disappointed because we, we, theyre not really serious about this, but that, that they havent had discussions, but do, do get depression or right now there are no discussions going on now. So they came to stand still, most likely because julian agreed just turned down that plea deal that had already been discussed, but there are new parameters. Now that might be a possible here, john, and this was 1st brought up by our, by a bruce upfront. And the constitutional lawyer in a, in our webcast of last august, when he pointed out that julian may be able to plead to a mis scrambling of classified material charge, which is a misdemeanor with a 5 year maximum term, which is already served 5 years in belmont, so if you read agree, if you agree to that in the us allowed that he could walk free, you wont even have to go to australia for any more time. This is a possibility. First weighs by bruce upfront in august. And bruce also said he would have to do that remotely. In other words, from london, theres nothing against the ways of aware for someone whos outside United States to uh, andrew, to play agreement remotely from another country. It doesnt have to come to the us. And that is something he will not do. Gabriel shipped in johns julian brother and made it very clear. Theres no way hes going to go there because the u. S. Could change their mind once he arrived a funny enough that wall street journal article now 2 weeks ago talked about mishandled and classified information. Im doing a remotely the exact same things that bruce from set in our webcast last august. So this will be something truly mishondra, i think, could agree to a misdemeanor. It would have to be conspiracy. Juve mishandled classified data because the law as a witness for Government Employees, thats the one i think trump was charged on or they didnt charge biden under. So hed have to go to a conspiracy with chelsea, man, and was a Government Employee to mishandled classify data and hed have to do it remotely. If those are the terms. I think that julian could agree to that. I also think that the he seems to be maybe in the drivers seat a lot more than i thought previously could, shouldve what i just said about those 2 shorts that can give the insurance on the 1st amendment. And if crap ask for services, right. He cannot be extradited then, certainly on the Death Penalty insurance, he cannot be extradited unless they get that. So that probably would come through if they missed the april 16th deadline for those insurance is then well have an appeal and it gets kicked down the road. So i think that is a pre deal, john, that sounds good take us, gives it to randy. In the event, the julian is indeed extradited. Active. Its like you will take up the mantle of his defense on the street. Youve organized countless actions in support of joint assigns, including very well received advertising trucks. What do you expect to do when he arrives in the United States for trial as well . Um, i dont expect them to arrive United States. Uh, but uh yeah, yes, exactly. Does arrive in the United States, then the only thing you can do is to carry on organize. We dont have, you know, theres been a d, c. Ive been on the streets of d. C. For so long out there and youve seen that truck. And as i read it here, and you talked to people on the streets, theyre not that interested. You know, the people that are support june designs or are they really gung ho uh in support or just like, you know, as liberals i was a bad thing or are they willing to get out there . Thats. Thats the test. Yeah. Or really do they know . Yeah. You know, people are others here youre on the street, you want to go directly to the people and everyones all their cell phone is the, is the, theyre not even working. So you gotta grab their attention. Its the new opium get, you know, the whole world on their cell phones all the time. They should, they should go to this. Dont remind them is, isnt that the truth. Im telling you its, its, its a real problem. I go into the subway and ive got the wires in my hand, my spare time and speech they give you my extension is, i think is a read news, labor magazines, or books or really theyre looking at theres oh yeah. Reading tools are those that yes, yeah. I can promise you that jewelry and really critical. Thank you so much for being with us. Were just scratching the surface of this important issue. When we come back, well talk about what julian assigns can expect in the United States and why many of his supporters remain so hopeful the, to the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the russian states never, ive side as im one of the most on screen, the best. Most all sense enough of the same assistance, the speed, the one else holes. Question about this, even though we will bend in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the russians to day and split our t smooth. Next, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the question, did you see a request for channel the the, what is a part of the is it that the employee would post good . Isnt the defense you of us and bidding the word part . Is it something deeper, more complex might be present . Good. Lets stop without cases. Lets go products of the welcome back to louis of louis. Im john to reaku. Were speaking with 2 important supporters of julian assange. Journalist and consortia news editor, joe loria, and activist and radio host, randy critical, joe and randy, thanks again for being with us. Thank you, jeff. Good to see you, joe. And you and i have had conversations about assurance is that the Justice Department has given the u. K. Courts and julians attorneys assurances that really are not worth the paper that they are printed on. For example, prosecutors have promised that julian would not be placed in solitary confinement, or in a restrictive present Communications Management unit. They dont have the authority to make such a promise. Those decisions are made solely by the federal bureau of prisons. What has been the u. K. Judges, reactions to these promises, the judges understand that the promises are empty. No, i think youre referring to the 20 a 2022 october hearing of doing a so much in the high court. That was a us appeal to overturn the lower Court Decision not extradited him based on his Mental Health, his propensity for suicide. In the conditions of us prisons. The judge never asked for assurance event. You didnt have to ask for thousands of churches the us. So why didnt you ask us . So they put these assurances in after the trial was lost by them after the hearing. Extradition hearing was lost by them. And they went to the high court in the high Court Without allowing a sondors lawyers to challenge to which they will be able to this time thats on progress there as well. So the side of the day accepted those assurances they didnt challenge the higher the extra, the lower courts judges decision that the, about the Mental Health and the condition risk prism. They just accepted the you as problems. And as you point out, john, those decisions