Standoff between Committee ChairmanDiane Feinstein and cia director john brennan began. We continue this evening with Mark Lyall Grant, the United Kingdoms ambassador to the United Nations. Its clear that the intense negotiations that have been going on behind the scenes may be coming to fruition. And we do hope that there will be agreement by both sides, both by hamas and by israel do the over 72 humanitarian hour pause. But the trick is to use that humanitarian pause if it sticks which previous pauses have not done, to try and sustain a more sustainable ceasefire. By sustainable i mean we have to address some of the underlying causes. This is the third time there has been conflict between israel and gaza in the last six years. It will happen again if we just go back to the status quo. And so what were trying to do is develop a little bit of space to relieve the humanitarian suffering, which is terrible, but use that space then to develop a more sustainable ceasefire rz an conclude with Andrew Rosenthal editor of the editorial page of the New York Times. We dont believe smoking pies is a right or Drinking Alcohol is a right or having cigarette is a right. Something has to happen at the federal level. Then we had this discussion about should it be decriminalization but nobody could figure out what that really meant so we decided the cleanest and simplest thing is to say repeal the federal law rz right. And thats it. Rz David Ignatius, ambassador Mark Lyall Grant and Andrew Rosenthal when we continue. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following . Theres a saying around here, you stand theres a saying around here you stand behind what you say. Around here, we dont make excuses, we make commitments. And when you cant live up to them, you own up and make it right. Some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where its needed most. But i know youll still find it, when you know where to look. Rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg. A provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. An internal cia investigation has concluded that the agency acted improperly in accessing senate computers. This week cia director john brennan apologized for the breech to leaders of the Senate Intelligence committee. The admission follows a long pub public feud between the cia and senate, Diane Feinstein accused the cia in march of tampering with the committees work. Many within the committee believe an apology from mr. Brennan was not enough. The senator who serves on the Committee Says he is concerned about mr. Brennans inability to find any flaws in the agency he leads. Joining me now from washington David Ignatius of the washington post. He knows the cia as well as anyone. Let me begin with this, david. Just explain what they did and what the investigation concluded about the cia and why was it so important that john brennan had to go apologize to these senators. The core issue here that the cia Inspector General was looking at was how cia employees learned that Senate Committee staffers who since 2009 have been preparing a report on cia Interrogation Practices learned of the fact that the Senate Staffers had a document which is come to be known as the panetta review document when cia officials didnt believe that it formerly had been provided to the Senate Investigators as part of a huge dump of more than a million documents that was given to the investigators. When the cia made the request about where the document had come from, that the Senate Investigators were inquiring about, a real standoff between the Committee ChairmanDiane Feinstein and cia director john brennan began, it lead to quite bitter exchanges between the two of them. The cia acting general counsel il counsel made a referral for what was alleged to be possible criminal activity by the Senate Staffers in obtaining this document, thats really what the Inspector General today was describing as the improper actions. Will it likely lead to brennans resignation . The initial response from the white house today from press secretary john earnest was to defend brennan, to say that this had not damaged him. I think well have to see how this plays out. In particular, well have to see what senator feinstein the leader of the Senate Committee chooses to do, how far she takes this, how angry she is. Part of why this got so hot was that feinstein an brennan clashed personally. And brennan made a public speech, a rare public criticism of the head of his Senate Oversight committee in which he questioned feinsteins decision to go forward. In effect, made accusations against her staff. That made this all the more personal and bitter. But in the end its really about this report that might thats coming forward, socalled panetta report. Theres a lot of pushback from the cia about disclosing this. Fake us behind the scenes and explain to us exactly what might come out of this and who said what when. The report which is said to total 6,000 pages, a massive study of cia rendition and detention and interrogation, actions during the decade after after 2 september 11th 001 but really in the initial years, that report has been waiting declassification. The core issue, charlie, is whether the beyond the ethical and moral outrage that i think everybody views interrogation policy as having been, whether there was any utility in the information that was gained through these horrific practices, the Senate Report goes through 20 specific examples of information that was cleaned from the interrogations. And says in each case, in each of these 20 cases the information could have been obtained from some other means. In other words, this horrible use of torture was unnecessary for intelligence purposes. The minority report, and i think the cia rejoinder as well will say in the end you have to be agnostic about that, that the way in which the majority report is written is ki of 20 20 hindsight. That you cant know how you would have gotten information in realtime and so well try to leave this question at least in intelligence, historical terms unanswered where nator feinstein has a decisive, emphatic answer that not only was this immoral, it was useless. This mostly came during the bush administration, i assume, bush 43. It was entirely during the bush administration. The issues that president obama, should be noted, one of the first things he did when he took office as president 2009 was to formally end the policy of cia interrogation, the use of harsh interrogation methods that already had been banned, but the Obama Administration shifted to an entirely different approach to interrogation really focusing on the fbi. So in a sense, these issues were dealt with more than five years ago in terms of policy. Senator feinstein felt that an honest history, a real accounting was essential to make sure that the u. S. Government never again did anything like what was done in the years after 9 11. Will leaders in high places among our friends and our enemies around the world be surprised by anything in this report . Are including people like you who write novels about spies an about the cia be surprised by what is in here . Obviously i havent read the report. But ive talked to people who have read every one of those successive pages. And they say that theres some details that were surface. As much as we know about the horrors of these interrogations, these water boarding and other techniques, as much has come out, this will still be disturbing to people. And it will put particular pressure on the countrys that hosted so the called black sites, where this interrogation was done. And with respect will it be released to the public or is it simply for internal archival purposes . Portions will be released to the public. And just how much is one of the decisions that the white house is still trying to resolve. A declassified version, i was told, could be available for release back to the senate which then has to decide what to do with it. As soon as a week from now. The senate has been trying to decide whether to release it during august or whether to wait until september when senators are back, and can speak publicly to the issues. Again, whether how many of those 6,000 pages, how much of the specific detail will be released, we dont know. Back to the cia and the senate computers. I mean is an argument that the cia will try to make that look, its not what it sounds like . The argument that the cia will make that brennan has already made is that in providing Senate Investigators access at a secret cia facility in Northern Virginia to these million plus documents, the cia was trying to be as open as it could. The issue that troubled cia officials was that by their account, when a Senate Investigator saw this document, came across this document known as the panetta review document, even though it wasnt a formal review by director panetta, they became concerned that it might be taken back so they made a copy of it. Which under the rules of their inquirery they werent supposed to do. And took that copy with them out of the facility in Northern Virginia. And thats what lead the cia general counsel il to make a criminal referral to the Justice Department accusing the Senate Staffers of having done something terribly wrong. Now today the Inspector General says the improper actions were by the cia staffers in looking into the Senate Investigators computeheer computers and finding out they had this document. This is either an incredible story or im incredibly naive or both. What senator feinstein would say if she was on your show tonight is i feel that its essential for our countrys future to tell this story in every gruesome detail so that we dont ever repeat it. But it is it is, given all of the things happening in the world, that this is such a focus for our intelligence director, john brennan and his colleagues is pretty amazing. David, thank you. David ignatius from washington. Back in a moment, stay with us. Sir Mark Lyall Grant is here, the United Kingdoms 578 was door to the United Nations. He served in that role since 2009. The u. K. Takes on the rotating presidency of the Security Council for the month of august. The conflict in gaza remains front and center, also of deep concern, continued violence in Eastern Ukraine and the threat posed by the Islamic State in iraq and syria. Im very pleased to have sir Mark Lyall Grant back at this table. Welcome. Thank you very much, indeed. What can you tell me about what might be going on in terms of negotiations with respect to gaza as we tape this at 3 00, at 2 00s on thursday . Its a fast moving situation. But its clear that the intense negotiations that have been going on behind the scenes may be coming to fruition. And we do hope that there will be agreement by both sides, both by hamas and by israel, to the over 72 hour humanitarian pause. But the trick is to use that humanitarian pause, if it happens, and if it sticks which previous pauses have not done, to try and develop a more sustainable ceasefire. And by sustainable, i mean we have to address some of the underlying causes. This is the third time theres been conflict between israel and gaza in the last six years it will happen again if we just go back to the status quote. So what were trying to do is develop a little bit of space to relieve the humanitarian suffering which is terrible. But use that space then to develop a more sustainable ceasefire, which in turn could then lead to a bridge for some status negotiations. Thats the game. Is there any discussion about whether the israelis can continue to close the tunnels during the humanitarian ceasefire . I think the israelis leer want to and need to close the tunnels. They believe that theyve done 60 to 70 of that work already and that it might be possible to complete that work very quickly. That does give the opportunity then for a humanitarian pause. Alternatively, you could have the humanitarian pause but allow israel to still work on the tunnels. But not to continue the shelling thats been going on over the last 24 days. So there is a number of combinations. I dont know exactly how it will turn out because those discussions are still happening in the region. Driven by whom . Egypt is front and center in this. They are the ones that have the ability to national with hamas but at the same time with israel am but there are many others involved. Qatar is very close to hamas. The americans obviously are closely involved as well. But so are turkey and saudi arabia. There are a number of players that are involved in these negotiations. And will these negotiations lead to serious conversations about things hamas talks about, the siege, the border, being able to open the borders, being able to use the ports, all the things that is on their list of complaints . Thats what we want to do. We want to have a sustainable ceasefire. And to us that means you have to tackle some of the underlying concerns. Both on the israel identify and on hamass side. Because israelis have a right to not have rockets raining down on half of their country, threatening their children and threatening their schools, hospitals, et cetera. But at the same time the ode gazan people have a right to live in peace in their own state. So trying to mesh those underlying concerns together will not be easy. But it will need to involve things like monitoring and verification. It will need to involve opening up the blockade of gaza, allowing more economic activity, bringing the Palestinian Authority back into gaza. So there is a number of elements that will be in the mix when we try to move from what will be a short term humanitarian pause we hope over the next few days wz all of the items that might play a role in terms of creating a sustainable relationship. What about the Palestinian Authority . Are they involved . Yes, the Palestinian Authority are involved. Because now that hamas and fatah the sort of plo part of the Palestinian Authority have joined together in a joint government. In theory, at least, the Palestinian Authority are the overarching authority in gaza n practice that haents been the case. Its been hamas who have been controlling gaza for several years now. So thats why i say that part of that discussion will be how to bring the Palestinian Authority back into gaza and to have some control over what happens in gaza. Even hamas do not appear to have complete control over some of the more radical islamic groups that are firing rockets. You but equally the Palestinian Authority need to be able to control hamas. Whats interesting too is whether there is, because its so visible in terms of the pictures that are coming out of gaza and hospitals and children and civilians, is that having an impact in terms of what you sense worldwide of saying please, do something about this . Yes, theres no doubt that attitudes in europe, in my country, in the United Kingdom are being affected by the seens that were seeing. I mean too many civilians are being killed. Were talking now nearly 1500 People Killed on the palestinian side. 80 of those we were told in the Security Council today by the u. N. Authorities, that 80 of those are civilian. In a more than 300 children have been killed. There was a terrible attack just a couple of days ago on a school administered by the United Nations. Now you cannot sustain that sort of conflict without it affecting public opinion. And so is it against israel. We as friends of israel are saying to the israelis, look, this conflict must come to an end. You must bring this conflict to an end. Because support is draining very fast. And what do the israelis say when that point is made . Thns. They understand that. But they have very legitimate concerns which we understand. Which is that how can we stop until we are confident that there will be no more rocket attacks. Do they have a time line for that . They dont give a specific timetable but we certainly have the impression that they are making good progress, particularly against the tunnel. Actually the rockets have been a problem for many years but the tunnels is a new problem. And i dont think the israelis were aware of the extent of these tunnels. They have acknowledged that. They have acknowledged that, exactly. And that is a big issue for them. The fact that these tunnels starting if gaza going underneath the border into is