Enough votes in congress to ensure his nuclear deal with iran will take effect. Well talk with former Vice President dick cheney and his daughter liz about that and an obama Foreign Policy they say has dangerously weakened america. And well ask our sunday panel about Donald Trumps change of mind. I will be totally pledging my allegiance to the Republican Party. All right now on fox news sunday. And hello again from fox news in washington. Like a lot of people, we noticed a deeply disturbing trend this week. A policeman gunned down north of chicago became the 24th Law Enforcement officer murdered in the line of duty this year. Since ferguson last august, 44 officers have been shot and killed. And then comes at a time of growing antipolice rhetoric and a spike in murders in some of our biggest cities. Were joined today by two leaders in Law Enforcement. Philadelphia Police CommissionerCharles Ramsey and Milwaukee Police chief edward flynn. Chief flynn, you said recently, every cop in america is looking over his shoulder and they dont feel that america has their back. Is that contributing to this rash of Police Shootings . I think we have to look at a broader context. I certainly think its an element. A number of things have happened. Im wondering as we look at both the Police Shooting phenomenon and the increase in homicides in our major cities, you cant disaggregate these twos phenomenon. Theres a number of variables at work that have to do with us being at some sort of Tipping Point. Were not sure if weve got a spike or a real Tipping Point and a change nom o phenomenon. There are concerning issues. The rerentless propaganda war being waged by our Network Television stations has been most distressing to watch them try to link six or eight questionable video recordings of Police Misconduct and turn that into a National Narrative of what the state of Police Community relations are. Dangerous one. Moment. Commissioner ramsey, lets talk about the problem you faced firsthand this week. You were trying to talk about Police Community releases in philadelphia and you in effect were shouted down by protesters movement. Heres a clip. No racist police. No racist police. What do you want . Justice. Now. Commissioner, when you see that and those protesters in minneapolis chanting pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon, does that contribute to dissents that its open season on cops . Help. That. I also think that you know, the people that are serious in this movement are missing an opportunity to really make a difference. If all you want to do is get up during a meeting and yell and scream and shout and walk out, then youre not going to get too far because theres no opportunity for dialogue. There are a lot of issues that are driving crime in our neighborhoods. Its not just about policing and how policing is conducted. Youve got very, very serious issues taking place thats driving crime. Thats why police are there to begin with. If they want to really deal with the issue of black lives and the number of homicides that take place, then you have to look at the crime ta takes place on the streets of our city. Black on black crime. If you dont address that and the drivers of crime, this is not going to result in anything at all positive. But there clearly has been something of a breakdown or at least a worsening of the situation between police and the communities that theyre trying to protect. Chief flynn, you were in a situation last november. You were at a hearing about a Police Officer who had shot and killed a disturbed man. And some of the protesters there criticized you for looking at your phone during the herring, and you made some comments that went viral. Here they are. I was following developments with a 5yearold little girl sitting on her dads lap who just got shot in the head. Fundamental some of the people here gave a god damn about the victimization of people by crime, i would take them more seriously. Chief, does that embody a breakdown in trust between the police and the people in the inner cities . I think one of the great myths is there is some dramatic breakdown in trust between the people at the Grassroots Level and the police. Every time theres a Critical Incident of voing the police, some activist ive never seen at a Community Meeting is suddenly all over the tv running their mouth off against racist oppression in the police department. I can guarantee you four cameras and a news helicopter if you can get 40 people. Day after day our coppers are in those neighborhoods protecting people with their lives in the meetings, organizing communities, listening to problems and providing the services they want. We have the historical challenge of the neighborhoods and policing. Most for historic reasons have distrust. At the Grassroots Level, those relationships are much, much healthier than National Network would have you believe. Lets address it headon this question of whether or not its the media and maybe some politicians who are exploiting a few isolated incidents. Chief ramsey, there certainly have been a series of incidents over the last year. You can say its not a lot but they have been dramatic. Showing Police Acting recklessly or their original stories didnt happened. You have a case like that in philadelphia. Dont Police Actions add to some of the mistrust . Sure theres no question about that. The problem is when that becomes the only thing shown, and there are hundreds of thousands of interactions that occur between police and Community Every day that you dont know about well. Weve taken 2,000 guns off the streets of philadelphia without a shot being fired by a Police Officer. These are illegal guns being carried by a person. Those arrests are made. Nobody oebs injured. Nobody talks about that. I think it does distort the view of whats going on. Policing. Weve got some issues that weve got to address. Weve got Police Officers that engage in misconduct. But when the only thing that gets shown is that shooting that is bad, i had an officer that was murdered on march 5th of this year. Theres video of that which we will not show because we dont want to expose the family or anybody else to to. Those are the dangers that Police Officers face every day that gets overshadowed by the few incidents of misconduct. There it is and we alluded to it another side to the story. In major cities across the country, the murder rate and take a look at, it has risen dramatically from what it was at the same type last year. Is your city of milwaukee it, murders are up 76 . Chief, how do you explain it . The question we have to look at is what are the variables right now. When you think of the concept of a Tipping Point, youre thinking of the environment, the few people that make maximum impact and what are the changes that have brought on this phenomenon because you end up with a sudden increase, not a gradual increase. What weve seen right now is the same percentage of the criminal percentage, 6 to 9 , is again driving this crime rate but a number of us have suffered from recently weakened gun laws that have made it much easier for our criminals to gain access to firearms. When the major cities mate a few weeks ago, all of us noticed the phenomena a lot more rounds are being fired at each shooting and overwhelmly being driven by people with criminal records shooting people with criminal records. Thats driving our homicide rates. There is another theory, commissioner. And that is the socalled ferguson effect. Thats the argument with police feeling theyre being targeted either in the media or out on street and with emboldened criminals that police are not going into neighborhoods as aggressively as they used to. And one of the case examples people cite rightly or wrongly is baltimore where six Police Officers were indicted after the death of freddie gray. Effect . Well, i mean, baltimores kind of a unique situation with what took place there. I havent seen it in philadelphia. Thats not to say we dont have some officers that perhaps are not as aggressive as they were before. Certainly when you look at our numbers, it is no indication thats the case. We have a slight bump in homicides, 5 but we stay on top of it. Its also important to keep this in context. Weve had historically low numbers in terms of homicides and shootings for several years now. Our numbers are being compared to that and were starting to have an upward trend which is very, very concerning we dont want to go in that direction. Its important to remember just exactly what were being compared to. There is a problem out there. No question about it. Certainly ferguson has had an impact on us in policing. To what extent, i dont know. Like Everything Else, this has become political, as well. Critics note, chief flynn, that president obama seems to speak out more emotionally and vocally when young black men are shot down like Michael Brown than when policemen are shot. Do cops notice that . I think the president is missing a historic opportunity wit is to bridge the gap between the two parallel conversations going on right now. On the one hand, we have the conversation about the holocaust of homicidal violence afflicting poor neighborhoods of color. In my city it the homicide rate for an africanamerican is 185 per 100,000 compared to 50 for a white person. Its a dramatic difference true in city after city. This is black on black man. Correct. This isnt white people going on. The challenge is these neighborhoods are afflicted by nonfatal. Things and other crimes. Have you disparities in the Justice System and the parallel conversation that has to be bridges you cant talk disparities in the system unless you talking about disparities of victimization. One person could bridge that gap most effectively. So far hes only talked about half the equation. Chief flirngs commissioner ramsey, thanks for coming. Thank you gentlemen. Up next, a kentucky county clerk chooses to go to jail rather than bend on samesex marriage. A sunday group weighs in on that and the race for the white house. Plus, what would you like to ask the panel about the Hillary Clinton aide who says he will take the fifth over setting up her private email server . Go to facebook or twitter do you want to know how hard it can be to breathe with copd . It can feel like this. Copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. Spiriva is a oncedaily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my airways for a full 24 hours. Spiriva helps me breathe easier. Spiriva respimat does not replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms. Tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. These may worsen with Spiriva Respimat. Discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. If your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, vision changes or eye pain or problems passing urine, stop taking Spiriva Respimat and call your doctor right away. Side effects include sore throat, cough, dry mouth and sinus infection. Nothing can reverse copd. Spiriva helps me breathe better. To learn about Spiriva Respimat slowmoving mist, ask your doctor or visit spirivarespimat. Com under Whose Authority you are not issuing licenses . Did god tell you to treat us like this . Ive asked you all to leave. You are interrupting my business. Well, someone finally took the spotlight from the donald trump this week. Kim davis, a county clerk in kentucky, defied a court order to issue marriage licenses to jail. Time to begin our sunday group. Columnist george l are, susan page, usa today, robert costa from the Washington Post and New York Times best selling author Richard North Patterson has written thrillers on a range of topics including politics and the Supreme Court. That Clerk Kim Davis says that gods law outweighs mans law. The Supreme Court ruling on of republican president ial candidates including ted cruzzen an rand paul and Mike Huckabee jumped on her bandwagon. George, your thoughts about the principle and politics of the rule of law and also, what about barack obama who seems to sometimes pick and choose which laws hes going to enforce . Theres no question that the president s selective interpretation of the constitutional provision that the executive shall see that the laws are faithfully execute his selective approach to that perhaps has encouraged a kind of lawlessness. People saying well, i can do whatever i wish. But surely it is a wholesome rule that executives should obey legitimate court orders. Thats true whether your name is orville, the democratic governor of arkansas in the 1950s or george wallace, the democratic governor of alabama in the 60s or kim davis, the democratic county clerk in kentucky. She made a choice. She unquestionably, her faith is important to her. Evidently her paycheck is also because she did not resign her office. Weve been here before, chris. In 1892, a massachusetts policeman claimed that his Constitutional Rights of speech and association had been violated by rules governing and restricting political activity by police. The Supreme Judicial Court of massachusetts head against him in an opinion written by a massachusetts judge named Oliver Wendell holmes, he ruled, he said the policeman has a constitutional right to engage in politics, the policeman does not have a constitutional right to be a policeman. She has that same problem. Rick, as weve been following the story, i keep thinking that kim davis could be a character in one of your novels, sworn to uphold the law but arguing that theres a higher law. I think the problem here is that george is exactly right. This is no different than her turning down an interracial couple on religious grounds. Its a public official doesnt have the right to do it. The real problem i think is a manner of parochial politics. This one revivifies. The controversy which the Supreme Court protects the gop from by ruling in favor of gay rights. Breyer patch. It separates the people willing to be grownups from the folks seeking is out political advantaging in iowa among evangelicals. The problem is thats not where the American People are so the gop should hope this goes away as quickly as possible. Lets talk about the gop and lets turn to donald trump who the this week finally signed a loyalty oath pledging hell support the republican nominee and not run as an independent candidate. Heres a clip. I will be totally pledging my allegiance to the Republican Party and the conservative principles for which it stands. But theres a question, robert, did the republicans win or lose by in a sense with the Reince Priebus going to the trump tower seeming to formally take donald trump into the gop . Its a political chess game. On one side, the rnc is trying to bring him into the tent to make sure shes not a threat for a third party run. At the same time, ive spoken to trump and his Campaign Manager about this. They believe longterm they can get other republicans to commit to him to be botched in as much as he is botched in with this pledge should he be the no knee. He thinks he needs to start making a move in case he actually does win the nomination, people stick with him. Theres another aspect of it, bob, and that is that to a certain degree, he was the outsider. He was, you know, the maverick. Now with his signing the pledge and having the laying on off of hands of priebus, does the gop own his statements more than they did in. They do own trump more because priebus went up to new york and associated with trump. He didnt appear with trump at the press conference. At the same time, the rnc is trying to get ahold of the situation, this nom non. When you see carsons rice, trump rice, all these outsider voices are becoming a major part of the party and the institutional gop is grappling with what to. They dont have many tools. This is one of them. Its a political document. Meanwhile, Hillary Clintons email problems continue. She refuse this had week to say she was sorry for what had happened but did say this. There was so much work to be done. We had so many problems around the world. I didnt really stop and think what kind of email system will there be. I am sorry that this has been confusing to people and has raised a lot of questions. We got a lot of questions from you about the decision of a state Department Staffer whom Hillary Clinton paid to help set up her email server or private email server in chappaqua, new york. His announcement he is going to take the fifth amendment in all investigations of this and you can see heres one of the questions,